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22/10/2012 Patch Changes


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#31 Therion

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 01:07 AM

Well I gotta agree that it's kind of silly for them to pay so much attention to D/D skills while ignoring staff/scepter, which imo need far, far more attention.

#32 Fiery Lily

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:13 PM

Now we need a decent elite, decent grandmaster fire traits (at least grandmaster), rtl fix and we are fine to go.

#33 DaPala

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:31 PM

View PostFiery Lily, on 24 October 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

Now we need a decent elite, decent grandmaster fire traits (at least grandmaster), rtl fix and we are fine to go.

Don't forget higher autoattack dps on not-dagger and more reliable burst. :P

#34 Fiery Lily

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 05:09 PM

View PostDaPala, on 24 October 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

Don't forget higher autoattack dps on not-dagger and more reliable burst. :P

I think scepter is fine except in fire and staff is missing just a little. If anything i would lower every other professions' autoattacks, they should be by no mean the main attack of any profession, just a filler. As for burst it should not be reliable which is my main problem with backstab thieves: stealth, steal, cloack and dagger, backstab (am i missing anything there?) is not avoidable unless u have some connection with the force. Burst should always be avoidable and you should be able to see it coming. To land the burst you have to sweat A LOT: make your enemy dodge other attacks, put pressure, make him use "save my ass" buttons. The problem here is not ele burst which is fine, it's other professions unavoidable damage.

#35 ultra_nubstress

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 05:31 PM

View PostTherion, on 24 October 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

Well I gotta agree that it's kind of silly for them to pay so much attention to D/D skills while ignoring staff/scepter, which imo need far, far more attention.

Don't really see how staff needs to be looked at. Unless you're saying it needs a nerf? Right now staff is our most overpowered weapon and is the reason everybody is crying about eles being OP. Unless you are saying it needs a nerf I don't really see what is wrong with staff atm. Scepter on the other hand could use some minor tweaks, such as dragon tooth being a ground targeted spell and maybe some minor changes in earth.

#36 Scarlet_Blossom

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 05:41 PM

View Postultra_nubstress, on 24 October 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

Don't really see how staff needs to be looked at. Unless you're saying it needs a nerf? Right now staff is our most overpowered weapon and is the reason everybody is crying about eles being OP. Unless you are saying it needs a nerf I don't really see what is wrong with staff atm. Scepter on the other hand could use some minor tweaks, such as dragon tooth being a ground targeted spell and maybe some minor changes in earth.

Just because the support is very strong that doesn't mean all other skills on staff are good aswell.

#37 AetherMcLoud

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 06:25 PM

We either need a blanked survivability buff or a blanket damage buff. In glasscannon spec with die in 2 hits, and in bunker spec we do almost no damage. Everything in between dies too fast and does too little damage.

I'm through with this class. And therefore game pretty much (ele is the only class I like playing).

It's been 2 month. Stuff that was known since the first beta weekend still isn't fixed. I actually thought Arenanet could balance a game. I was dead wrong.

Edited by AetherMcLoud, 24 October 2012 - 06:36 PM.


#38 ultra_nubstress

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 08:37 PM

View PostScarlet_Blossom, on 24 October 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

Just because the support is very strong that doesn't mean all other skills on staff are good aswell.

True.... what type of changes were you thinking though? I still don't see a problem with the actual skills themselves. If you spec glass cannon in staff, you can do a good amount of aoe/condition damage. Which skills specifically do you think need changes?

Err... well Air 3 and Earth 5 need to move faster, but other than that I don't see any major spell changes needing to be done just minor adjustments.

Edit: Also Water 5 needs to be shorter cast time or cast on moving IMO

Edited by ultra_nubstress, 24 October 2012 - 08:37 PM.


#39 Fiery Lily

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:05 PM

View PostAetherMcLoud, on 24 October 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

We either need a blanked survivability buff or a blanket damage buff. In glasscannon spec with die in 2 hits, and in bunker spec we do almost no damage. Everything in between dies too fast and does too little damage.

I'm through with this class. And therefore game pretty much (ele is the only class I like playing).

It's been 2 month. Stuff that was known since the first beta weekend still isn't fixed. I actually thought Arenanet could balance a game. I was dead wrong.

While i agree in general with your feeling i think that Anet is slowly moving towards fixing things for eles. Key word being slowly. We still didn't have a proper balancing patch. The one that kills dinosaurs just to be clear. I think they are looking into numbers right now and they are going to do it. Now i know u from your posts and that's it but i know how passionate u r about ele and this game, therefore i advise to take things easy for now. Maybe even stay away from game for a little while. But dont lose faith in ele!

#40 Therion

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 12:51 AM

Quote

Don't really see how staff needs to be looked at. Unless you're saying it needs a nerf? Right now staff is our most overpowered weapon and is the reason everybody is crying about eles being OP. Unless you are saying it needs a nerf I don't really see what is wrong with staff atm. Scepter on the other hand could use some minor tweaks, such as dragon tooth being a ground targeted spell and maybe some minor changes in earth.

Why would DT being ground target change anything? DT's problem is that it's impossible to actually land thanks to a combination of a long activation time and a highly visible graphic, meaning most people don't even have to 'try' and avoid it because everybody in PvP moves constantly, and even if you stun/immobilize them first, very few people pvp without at least one CC break, putting you right back where you started. Making DT viable would require either removing the activation time or making it lock onto a target (although the latter at least would probably require a cooldown increase to balance it out).

As for staff, it's better off than scepter overall, but it's still subpar outside of standing behind zergs/walls spamming AOE. Which would be fine if we could swap weapons with more ease, but we can't. If ANet wants attunements to be our replacement for weapon swapping, then we need more flexibility across our skillset, currently we have less effectiveness than any other classes single weapon, while having to press 4x as many buttons.

Edited by Therion, 25 October 2012 - 12:53 AM.


#41 khelben

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:10 AM

And staff water 1. Seriously, seriously come on now... really?

#42 AetherMcLoud

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:31 PM

View PostFiery Lily, on 24 October 2012 - 11:05 PM, said:

While i agree in general with your feeling i think that Anet is slowly moving towards fixing things for eles. Key word being slowly. We still didn't have a proper balancing patch. The one that kills dinosaurs just to be clear. I think they are looking into numbers right now and they are going to do it. Now i know u from your posts and that's it but i know how passionate u r about ele and this game, therefore i advise to take things easy for now. Maybe even stay away from game for a little while. But dont lose faith in ele!

Well the problem is besides the (excellent) change to our downed state, pretty much all we got in all the patches since launch were nerfs, stealth nerfs, nerfs disguised as bugfixes, and some quality of life changes. And that's after all the nerfs that happened after BWE2.

Glyph of Rez: While it always had a WAY too long cooldown (compare Elixir R which is way better, has additional uses and 85 sec cooldown) at least it was able to rez dead people. Nerfed. Hard. Not even got a cooldown reduction. Selfrez buff nerfed from 45 seconds to 15 seconds.

RTL: was always buggy as hell. No bugfix at all. HARD nerf this patch. Not even worth mentioning in the patchnotes.

Our bajillion more-or-less gamebreaking bugs, not even touched although they would be frakking easy to fix: mistform cd reduction, churning earth going on long cd when interrupted, etc. THen there's the really gamebreaking bugs like getting killed in mistform.

Staff skills: We had some instant ones, suddenly after a patch every single staff skill that was instant has a short casttime, wtf?

Final shielding: Was actually an awesome trait, one of our very few ones. Suddenly only procs at 10% making it completely useless.

Our so-called-burst: Dragons tooth is harder to hit than speedy gonzales, even with signet of earth they can dodge before it lands. D/D burst has 45 seconds cooldown for an ability that hits 6k if you're lucky, misses 80% of the time. Churning earth has what, 4 seconds casttime? And does around 6k if you're lucky and didn't get killed while channeling. In the meantime everyone else has burst abilities that hit for 10-15k on very short cooldowns (6 seconds or less). How comes?

And of course there's always a few douchebags here and on the official forum chiming in "ele are fine, they are the best profession, l2p noob", but when you corner them they of course cannot back up their arguments because they are simple lies. We have the least HP and armor, so why do we do less damage than thieves, which have more armor, and WAY more survivability through stealth even in glass cannon spec.

So, with the history of balance changes in the patches since launch, what exactly is there to look forward to for ele? IMHO, nothing. We will never be on par with other classes.

Problem is, ele is the only profession that is truly fun for me. I always choose the most complex profession in games, because for me that's fun. But if you play Beethovens 5th on the keyboard and still lose to a facerolling thief spamming his 2 key, it stops being fun after some time.

Edited by AetherMcLoud, 25 October 2012 - 01:33 PM.


#43 DaPala

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:37 PM

View PostAetherMcLoud, on 25 October 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

But if you play Beethovens 5th on the keyboard and still lose to a facerolling thief spamming his 2 key, it stops being fun after some time.

I laughed hard at this. Then I cried hard - because it is so true...

#44 ultra_nubstress

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:23 PM

View PostTherion, on 25 October 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

Why would DT being ground target change anything? DT's problem is that it's impossible to actually land thanks to a combination of a long activation time and a highly visible graphic, meaning most people don't even have to 'try' and avoid it because everybody in PvP moves constantly, and even if you stun/immobilize them first, very few people pvp without at least one CC break, putting you right back where you started. Making DT viable would require either removing the activation time or making it lock onto a target (although the latter at least would probably require a cooldown increase to balance it out).

As for staff, it's better off than scepter overall, but it's still subpar outside of standing behind zergs/walls spamming AOE. Which would be fine if we could swap weapons with more ease, but we can't. If ANet wants attunements to be our replacement for weapon swapping, then we need more flexibility across our skillset, currently we have less effectiveness than any other classes single weapon, while having to press 4x as many buttons.

Dragon Tooth being ground targeted would do a lot..... Your ally goes down. Instead of casting dragon tooth at your enemies location, which he will not even be at, as he runs towards your ally in an attempt to down him does nothing even if the time was reduced. On the other hand, If it is ground targeted all you do is target your ally and watch as either the enemy runs in and gets hit for huge damage or they stay away... Having a ground targeted DT let's you play more of a zoning type of Ele. It would work almost the same as water #2 skill in scepter, Except do good damage.

I still would prefer DT delay be shortened. I'm just pointing out that a ground targeted DT is still better than what it is now.

As for staff, I only talk of tPvP when I talk of PVP not WvW. So if you're complaining about WvW then I have nothing to say because I have no idea.

On the other hand for tPvP, staff is simply amazing as a support/bunker. If anybody else says so, I'm sorry because I rarely say this, but L2P. support/bunker ELE on staff is by far one of the most fun as well as easiest things to play in the world. They have a ton of survival through their ridiculous aoe heals and condition removals. They have a ton of survival through their ability to cast aoe frost armor and frozen ground. BTW Chilled is the most OP condition. I could go on... but there are way too many points to be made.

In short, staff ele's CAN be amazing. If you do not want to play a support/bunker build that's fine, but saying staff is subpar is simply not true.

Edited by ultra_nubstress, 25 October 2012 - 06:31 PM.


#45 AetherMcLoud

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:43 PM

You find an unkillable bunker spec that can't outdamage a warriors selfhealing fun..?

#46 Priest

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:51 PM

You sure do complain a lot.

#47 ultra_nubstress

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:05 PM

View PostAetherMcLoud, on 25 October 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

You find an unkillable bunker spec that can't outdamage a warriors selfhealing fun..?

I find being able to do 4 combo finishers every 10 seconds fun. Yes I actually do. I enjoy seeing all my allies go from 10% health to 70% health. I enjoy giving frost armor to myself and allies and watch a warrior/theif chill themselves so they can't do anything. I enjoy giving my team aoe stacks of might. I enjoy doing aoe blinds with my air dodge, I enjoy cleansing huge amount of conditions from my allies and myself.

I enjoy helping my team win... Sorry if that seems boring to you. Being in a mid point and constantly fighting the entire time and not dying a single round. Yes do find that quite fun.

#48 Shadowrose

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 01:11 AM

Why does evasive arcana exist? I hope they delete that dumb trait.

#49 Featherman

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 01:29 AM

View PostShadowrose, on 26 October 2012 - 01:11 AM, said:

Why does evasive arcana exist? I hope they delete that dumb trait.

Bwuh?
It's one of our best traits and it make support viable.

#50 AetherMcLoud

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 02:20 AM

View Postultra_nubstress, on 25 October 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

I find being able to do 4 combo finishers every 10 seconds fun. Yes I actually do. I enjoy seeing all my allies go from 10% health to 70% health. I enjoy giving frost armor to myself and allies and watch a warrior/theif chill themselves so they can't do anything. I enjoy giving my team aoe stacks of might. I enjoy doing aoe blinds with my air dodge, I enjoy cleansing huge amount of conditions from my allies and myself.

I enjoy helping my team win... Sorry if that seems boring to you. Being in a mid point and constantly fighting the entire time and not dying a single round. Yes do find that quite fun.

A bunker spec is usually alone defending a point, so there is noone benefiting from your support.

#51 AetherMcLoud

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 02:33 AM

Also, not everyone likes to play a glorified buffbot. Which could actually be played by a bot and be pretty much just as effective.

#52 Priest

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 03:31 AM

If you spent half as much time playing as you did complaining, you may get good enough to not complain anymore.

#53 rizipt

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 05:45 AM

View PostAetherMcLoud, on 26 October 2012 - 02:33 AM, said:

Also, not everyone likes to play a glorified buffbot. Which could actually be played by a bot and be pretty much just as effective.

I don't know if you feel offended and felt you had to lash back but that was a douchebag move there.

#54 Thandbar

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 08:30 AM

View Postrizipt, on 26 October 2012 - 05:45 AM, said:

I don't know if you feel offended and felt you had to lash back but that was a douchebag move there.

I think, Aether has a point there. ArenaNet stated that they did not want a unkillable healer in this game ... the bunker ele is this overpowered healer thing.
I'm not an expert when it comes to MMOs, but I played a Feral Druid, and I remember how often I was nerfed because Blizzard wanted to tone down our healing specc.
And I fear that the Elementalist's fate could be the same, that all possible roles will constantly suffer because the developers have problems balancing the "support" specc of this class.

#55 Vayra86

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 08:33 AM

View PostAetherMcLoud, on 24 October 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

We either need a blanked survivability buff or a blanket damage buff. In glasscannon spec with die in 2 hits, and in bunker spec we do almost no damage. Everything in between dies too fast and does too little damage.

I'm through with this class. And therefore game pretty much (ele is the only class I like playing).

It's been 2 month. Stuff that was known since the first beta weekend still isn't fixed. I actually thought Arenanet could balance a game. I was dead wrong.

Wait... wha...what what WHAT?

If Anet had all your suggestions introduced to the Elementalist it really would be way too strong.

Elementalist is fine. S/D needs work? You can get some of the most severe bursts going there and you have decent range, plus some control over where the enemy will or will not like to position itself. D/D: *ing awesome. Staff: useful in its own way. Focus: defensive orientation, so very situational.

With the reworked downed state (which was the major flaw of Ele really) and the ease of use on the dagger skills I am really liking the Ele right now, having a blast actually.

If you honestly believe Elementalist needs some major changes still, you have not been playing it right. It really is that simple...

EDIT: reading the rest of this thread and your rant on the Ele's shortcomings I see I may have written the above in vain. But honestly. The only time I found the Ele weak was when I levelled it too fast and progressed into Straits with a level 50 weapon set and gear. The power of Eles lies not in a single rotation of 5 or 6 skills, it is all about utilizing and *timing* the different perks of each skill at the right moment. Perhaps your Beethoven's 5th just means mashing 1-5 and F1-4 hoping you'll land stuff?

Edited by Vayra86, 26 October 2012 - 08:39 AM.


#56 AetherMcLoud

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 05:03 PM

View PostVayra86, on 26 October 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

Elementalist is fine. S/D needs work? You can get some of the most severe bursts going there and you have decent range, plus some control over where the enemy will or will not like to position itself. D/D: *ing awesome.

a) lol "severe" burst. Thieves, shatter mesmers, even warriors do severse burst. S/D, even if specced glass cannon, does nowhere near "the most severe".
b ) you will only land your burst on braindead opponents because dragon's tooth is so frakking easy to dodge even if you blanket it with an immobilize or knockdown.
c) D/D actually is not fine and even ANet acknowledged that. Firegrab still misses like 80% of the time, and does nowhere near enough damage to justify a 45 seconds cooldown.

View PostVayra86, on 26 October 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

EDIT: reading the rest of this thread and your rant on the Ele's shortcomings I see I may have written the above in vain. But honestly. The only time I found the Ele weak was when I levelled it too fast and progressed into Straits with a level 50 weapon set and gear.

Who cares about frakking easymode pve?

Quote

The power of Eles lies not in a single rotation of 5 or 6 skills, it is all about utilizing and *timing* the different perks of each skill at the right moment. Perhaps your Beethoven's 5th just means mashing 1-5 and F1-4 hoping you'll land stuff?

It seems you know a lot about playing a symphony. Tell me more.

Edited by AetherMcLoud, 26 October 2012 - 05:04 PM.


#57 Fiery Lily

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 06:26 PM

View PostShadowrose, on 26 October 2012 - 01:11 AM, said:

Why does evasive arcana exist? I hope they delete that dumb trait.

I really really hope this is trolling: if only our grand master traits were all as strong as this then we would be fine cause

View PostAetherMcLoud, on 26 October 2012 - 02:33 AM, said:

Also, not everyone likes to play a glorified buffbot. Which could actually be played by a bot and be pretty much just as effective.

While i stopped playing that because it's not my taste i have to disagree it's a bot level of difficulty. Just plain no. It's simpler but way more complex than many other professions and i really think you should apologize for that comment. While i understand frustration, taking it on other people is just wrong.

#58 Shadowrose

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 06:45 PM

Idk, I just find it to be a stupid minigame to be dodge rolling into every single combo field you encounter.

#59 AetherMcLoud

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 07:59 PM

View PostShadowrose, on 26 October 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

Idk, I just find it to be a stupid minigame to be dodge rolling into every single combo field you encounter.

This. It'l literally nothing else.

#60 Sephorai

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 11:22 PM

I've seen minors in other profressions that are better than most of our grandmasters xD


Edit: Imagine if we had a trait like Monk's Focus (Meditations heal for 1.95k when used) like the guardians have except on our arcane abilities or cantrips? Would be magical :D

Edited by Sephorai, 26 October 2012 - 11:25 PM.





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