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Does Anet hate the Thief?


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#1 BabelFish

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 08:17 AM

I've been noticing something. As a thief I always have aggro, it's like tanks don't even exist.. If I'm doing no dps at the moment and whatever I'm not pounding on is getting mashed by others...nope its chasing me around. If I'm dead and something is attacking it, it will go out of its way to finish the job.

This happens when I'm using P/P, D/D or P/D.. ranged...melee, I'm always getting mashed by everything.

Anet has stated distance matters...so what's with this then? Does Anet just hate thiefs in PvE?

Sometimes I'm even invisible and the enemy will still attack me...I just don't get it...do we have a thief tag that prioritizes us over any and everything?

At lvl 40 I was partnering with lvl 60s who had better gear and a higher level (CM dungeon EM) and I still had aggro over them...

Don't take this the wrong way, it's a observation, it doesn't stop me from owning, hell when i get bored I run naked through Orr and still manage to cope.

Edited by BabelFish, 24 October 2012 - 09:37 AM.


#2 Kalfer

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 10:12 AM

Aggro doesnt work that way in this game. And you are right. There are not supposed to be dedicated tanks.

#3 Gremlin

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 10:20 AM

So its not a carry over from gw1 where they would target the lowest armour value party member.

#4 Therion

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 10:20 AM

Quote

Does Anet hate the Thief?

Hahah! haha! hah! You're kidding right? I'm pretty sure half their team plays one, they're so absurdly overpowered compared to almost every other class.

#5 Aitchkay

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 10:24 AM

Alright, let's break it down!

View PostBabelFish, on 24 October 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

it's like tanks don't even exist..

They don't exist.

View PostBabelFish, on 24 October 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

If I'm dead and something is attacking it, it will go out of its way to finish the job.

NPCs prioritize the lowest health person.  Also, if you try to revive a downed person, you instantly get aggro.

View PostBabelFish, on 24 October 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

Sometimes I'm even invisible and the enemy will still attack me...

Just because you are invisible doesn't mean attacks don't go off.  If you invis where they started casting their attack and you don't move, you still get hit.  In the case of channeled abilities, you take the full duration.'

View PostBabelFish, on 24 October 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

Don't take this the wrong way, it's a observation, it doesn't stop me from owning, hell when i get bored I run naked through Orr and still manage to cope.

You are complaining about getting owned, and then end your post about how you still own.  You get a eye-roll face!  :rolleyes:

Edited by Aitchkay, 24 October 2012 - 10:24 AM.


#6 BabelFish

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:55 AM

View PostAitchkay, on 24 October 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

They don't exist.

A tank equiv in this game is something like a Guardian. Thiefs don't have amazing survivability compared to other meaty classes, that's one of the defining characteristics of the tank.


Quote

NPCs prioritize the lowest health person.  Also, if you try to revive a downed person, you instantly get aggro.





I'm sitting at around 8000 right now, I've been partnered with pure dps rangers with less and I still take all the aggro while they tend to do some crazy burst damage that makes my head spin...I'm not sure this is entirely accurate. I've also been partnered up with lvl 80s before and clearly been the lowest health in the group with zero aggro until I bust out my P/P and start unloading.

Quote

Just because you are invisible doesn't mean attacks don't go off.  If you invis where they started casting their attack and you don't move, you still get hit.  In the case of channeled abilities, you take the full duration.'

Fair enough.

Quote

You are complaining about getting owned, and then end your post about how you still own.  You get a eye-roll face!  :rolleyes:

Yes, because doing quests naked and still owning is me complaining...I'm just wondering how exactly the agrro works in regards to the Thief because no matter what bar a lvl 80 in the party I'm always target #1 and this is't the first time I've heard of this from theifs either.

Edited by BabelFish, 24 October 2012 - 11:55 AM.


#7 General Typhus

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 12:41 PM

Zero star thread.

#8 Korra

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 12:50 PM

This post gave me cancer.

#9 Rachmani

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 02:33 PM

Different mobs have different ways of getting their attention.
CM Riflemen, the ones you're probably refering to, target the character with the lowest hp, which, in most cases will be thief or elementalist. Sure-shot seamus of the same dungeon, targets the nearest player (as does for example leutnant koler in AC).
Subject alpha in CoE on the other hand seems to just stick to a player (or targets the highest toughness, I'm not sure here).

In short, you have to pay attention to understand how aggro works for certain mobs.
The other thing is... you will die if your group doesn't help you. If everyone is busy getting away from Seamus he will just stay on his target no matter what, his target will run out of dodges and die. That will always happen if players are happy not taking responsibility (in general standing in the back, shooting something or throwing something at him). So despite the lack of a true tank, there is still tanking involved.

I for example play with around 1250 toughness and about the same vitality (rest is berserker stuff) and I - like everyone in my group draw attention to me, when needed. Note that you can, for example rescue your teammates from ranged attacks putting yourself in the line of fire. Our warrior (who is quite tankish) does that all the time, and so does everyone else, when needed.

#10 Aitchkay

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 03:50 PM

View PostBabelFish, on 24 October 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

A tank equiv in this game is something like a Guardian. Thiefs don't have amazing survivability compared to other meaty classes, that's one of the defining characteristics of the tank.

I'm sitting at around 8000 right now, I've been partnered with pure dps rangers with less and I still take all the aggro while they tend to do some crazy burst damage that makes my head spin...I'm not sure this is entirely accurate. I've also been partnered up with lvl 80s before and clearly been the lowest health in the group with zero aggro until I bust out my P/P and start unloading.

Fair enough.

Yes, because doing quests naked and still owning is me complaining...I'm just wondering how exactly the agrro works in regards to the Thief because no matter what bar a lvl 80 in the party I'm always target #1 and this is't the first time I've heard of this from theifs either.

You can be extremely tanky by playing certain specs.  For example, a quad dagger build that has initiative on weapon swap and sigil of energy, allowing you significant uptime on evade (via dodge/death blossom).  To claim that you can't be just as tanky as a guardian is disingenuous.

If you think it's just thieves getting targetted, you need to talk to more people.

#11 CalmLittleBuddy

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 03:53 PM

Thread ate my baby

#12 Black Autumn

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 05:02 PM

View PostGremlin, on 24 October 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

So its not a carry over from gw1 where they would target the lowest armour value party member.

Actually this still seems to happen.  I say seems because I can't verify it but my Mesmer and Elementalist experience this a lot.

#13 The_Tree_Branch

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 09:21 PM

Tanks don't exist? Lol...there are some warrior builds that are pretty damn tanky and can just whale on dungeon bosses without taking a dent.

Tanking still exists, just not in the same mind-numbing fashion other MMOs have.

#14 Ravnodaus

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 10:08 AM

A thief can set themselves up to be a pretty fantastic tank too. Evasion like crazy mad. Most are too busy lolling about 1 shotting people to bother, but when they trait and gear right, phenominal tanks.

#15 abzoluut

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 09:08 PM

This guy is out of controll

#16 Wifflebottom

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 09:11 PM

1/5 for trying.

#17 ShenronRen

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 09:19 PM

You can't just stand at one place and expect to not get attacked this game does not work that way, you have to keep moving.

#18 Magpie

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 09:22 AM

Trying too hard.

#19 Lorath

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:02 PM

View PostShenronRen, on 28 October 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

You can't just stand at one place and expect to not get attacked this game does not work that way, you have to keep moving.

Tell that to all the 'deals inreased damage to moving target' mobs...

#20 Loperdos

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:26 AM

This is interesting because when I was running a stealth DPS build, I had the exact opposite experience. Whenever I was playing with my buddies or guildmates, it didn't matter what class they were, I would rarely get aggro. Perhaps it was a combination of my consistent use of stealth and weaving in and out of melee range, or something else completely.

Just another perspective to show that just because you experience something one way doesn't necessarily mean that it is the majority experience! :)

#21 ArtimiseFlare

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:07 AM

I get my ass kicked a lot in dungeons too, but I know it's me trying to get accustomed to playing as a thief in dungeons. We're not the most durable class, but we have a whole lot of ways to avoid damage. The most effective means I've found for non AOE magic attacks and the like is to use a pistol in my off hand and spam the crap out of blinding shot. Helps both me and my melee party members in avoiding damage.

#22 ShenronRen

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 03:44 AM

View PostLorath, on 31 October 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

Tell that to all the 'deals inreased damage to moving target' mobs...
Thieves have the best mobility out of all classes along with dodge and stealth. Unless you are literally moving without using any of these utilities then yes mobs that can " 'deal inreased damage to moving target' mobs..." will kill you easily. I barely die in dungeons or wvw, people just need to research different thief builds and learn how to use the dodge mechanism and survival utilities because the survival of a thief depends on it.

Edited by ShenronRen, 03 November 2012 - 03:49 AM.


#23 SpelignErrir

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 03:52 AM

This thread cured my cancer

Then gave it back to me after two days, with some extra AIDS

#24 dynia666

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 12:09 AM

lol agro of mobs works like that :

1. im goin hit that guy, hit miss hit miss hit miss FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
2. lets try that guy hit miss hit miss hit miss FUUUUUUUUUUUU
3. ok lets try that hit boom hit boom, yeah he hae low hp, OW he ran away, I don't follow him im too lazy, I take care about another guy
4. he resing other guy !! no he won't I call meteor on him ! (some bosses agro you when you res some not)

That how agro works for veterans,champs special bosses and bosses in deungeos, that what class you play or dmg you deal dosen't rly matter on agro in gw2

#25 Al Shamari

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 08:23 PM

I know your intent, and I should simply report you for trolling. But, I'm going to bite. To put it simply I'm going to take your bait and then promptly swim away. There's no way these claims can be kosher, none at all. There are simply too many fallacies.

First I will say that I don't understand how many people are confused about the dynamics of aggro. Yes, there are multiple dynamics involved, and even some that aren't listed on the page where Arenanet clearly explains it (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aggro) and most of those mechanics deal with certain mobs or certain monsters. For example, on my Thief when I Blind a Scavenger in Ascalonian Catacombs, after he he can see again he will immediately break all aggro and pounce on me, almost every single time. So, certain mechanics like that add to the mechanics already explained on the wiki page.

Now, on to some of the silly things you've said in this thread.

Quote

it doesn't stop me from owning, hell when i get bored I run naked through Orr and still manage to cope.
I would really like to see this. Even when I recently got my Thief to level 80 and started to explore Orr myself, I found it considerably difficult to control mobs without dying until I had properly geared up. A level 40 doing it, with absolutely no gear just makes no sense to me seeing as I consider myself a reasonably good player and I seriously doubt there are any gaping holes in my game play mechanics or build. I would like to see a video please.

Quote

I'm sitting at around 8000 (health) right now
It should be noted that I added "(health)" for clarity, but it is what he was referring to in context. This is what makes me laugh, so as a level 80 with the advantage of gear and specific traits, I just traveled to a zone where I was 'de-leveled' to level 48, 8 levels higher than the level you claim yourself to be. Guess where my health sits? 4841. So, unless you are using some extremely bulking gear that is just boosting in vitality at level 40 - which, please remind yourself would seriously sacrifice the DPS you're supposed to put out as a Thief and further take away from how much you seemingly "own" in this game - I don't believe you are sitting at around 8000 health right now at level 40. In fact, I have my doubts that it's even possible with reasonable gearing, but I have no way to confirm that and could be wrong.




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