474 replies to this topic

[fatality39]

Does anyone think GW2 has what it takes to remain a top mmo long term.  I'm of the belief that the days of WoW type longevity is gone and gamers are way more fickle now.  Anet's only shot is to keep content flowing every 3 months.   New games like PS2 free or not are going to continually take players away.  In this mmo gaming environment is it possible for GW2 to stand the test of time like some of our all time favorites?  Personally, it has potential, but Anet needs to ramp it up more for it to happen imo.

[Featherman]

Seeing as how their style of PVE is more of a themepark, they're going to have to include more competitive and rewarding PvP game modes to for this game to have any sort of longevity.Or at least better balance current PvP aspects of it. I know many people who wanted to enjoy WvW and sPvP in the long term but are already jaded by the lack of attention those game modes are receiving.

[AetherMcLoud]

If they don't balance PVP fast everyone not playing guardian/mesmer/warrior/thief will quit soon.

[Chava Blue]

I think GW2 has the potential for longevity, although whether it will achieve it depends somewhat on the decisions the developers make, particularly within the next year or so.

I doubt GW2 will have the stable level of permanent population WoW does simply because of the difference in business models, but I think that like GW1 did, GW2 will attract players for the major content updates at the very least.

[deitiesforce]

As of right now not very long, but i certainly hope future changes will change that.

[stefanplc]

I hope so.. I really like the game and I feel like it has potential... at the moment I'm playing it as it will last for a long time, investing plenty of time into my characters

[Myugen]

Same was warhammer or aion....fix those elephants in the room, or you'll keep bleeding people. Like all games...they have the potential, they just really need to take it by the....horns.

[Bloodtau]

If this game had a sub, it would be sinking faster than star wars did by now. The only reason people are playing it is because it is free.

[Zhaitan]

The game will have decent longevity as much as any other game of its genre.

If they completely remove "gold" requirement from WvW, I'd be interested to spend more time in there. I think its just a huge goldsink and general zergfest where I can't see what is even hitting me for me to react. I think WvW needs some modification. Also, attaching world completion to the map does not necessarily promote players to go WvW or help you win some strategic objectives. I remember joining a group who wanted to cap a tower only to realize they were just interested for a POI and they disbanded right after they failed to get it. Also, I spent a lot of time initially in underwater fights trying to rez ppl only to realize they were mostly bots or some unsuspecting noobs like me who went there to res them to became fodder for the botfarmers.

For sPvP they need to come up with some kind of hotjoin format that will be popular with the regular Joes. They will also need new formats to keep people interested.

[Shadowrose]

they need to add more spvp features, maps and stuff that can keep people entertained.

[Zero_Soulreaver]

It's hard to tell, if they keep doing what they have been ppl will continue to be disappointed.  I hope they change things up for the better and keep people playing more than just current patch updates for like an hour and then going away again.  Games that support the casual play aspect really don't last long because they don't keep people's interests.

[Heart Collector]

fatality39, on 25 October 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

Does anyone think GW2 has what it takes to remain a top mmo long term.  I'm of the belief that the days of WoW type longevity is gone and gamers are way more fickle now.  Anet's only shot is to keep content flowing every 3 months.   New games like PS2 free or not are going to continually take players away.  In this mmo gaming environment is it possible for GW2 to stand the test of time like some of our all time favorites?  Personally, it has potential, but Anet needs to ramp it up more for it to happen imo.

It's still quite early, so we can't expect the same amount of content and polish that WoW has 8 years in - yet. I agree though that ANet needs to be on top of their game and deliver new stuff in a timely manner. Not for me, I'm still leveling and will be doing so for a long time. But for more hardcore players.

[Shadowrose]

Heart Collector, on 25 October 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

Not for me, I'm still leveling and will be doing so for a long time. But for more hardcore players.

Whoa, this is the first time I ever read something like this.

Thank you for your kind words. It's nice that, for a change, casual players don't belittle everything that more hardcore players do, and accuse them of rushing through content too fast.

[RaoulDukeHST]

i'm not such a big fan of the game,certainly not my type,but it's the best vanilla MMO ever in my opinion.

[AndrewSX]

Step one: fix all/most important bugs/exploits.
Step two: ALWAYS refine balance. Always. And start doing it asap, atm is not that great - though is already over the average of most MMOs...
Step three: few direct fixes to WvW can do a MASSIVE difference in its appeal and long-run longevity w/o further additions.
Step four: add more maps/structured pvp modes.
Step five: push out pve content regurarly.

After 1 year and half, trow in exp pack.

Rinse and repeat (hopefully only since step 4.), mixing as needed with bugfixes-balancing.

[Cottage Pie]

it's not looking like a top tier mmo as it is now.  PvE offers an enjoyable jaunt, the dialogue at times is actually very amusing and worth not skipping, but there's near no actual challenge in it unless you hit a bug or glitch, even the dragon battles are a faceroll.  When things are difficult it's because anet have rampacked the game full of elements which chain deny you control of your character, aka artificial difficulty.  WvW is an entertaining battlefield, bugged as hell though.  PvP...why did anet have to put in a stealthing 'pause button' class?  They rubbish the trinity then do that?  There is not a middle finger big enough.  PvP  elements feel slow, clunky and most damningly, predictable.  Other games offer a far superior player on player experience, including Gw1.

[Heart Collector]

Shadowrose, on 25 October 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

Whoa, this is the first time I ever read something like this.

Thank you for your kind words. It's nice that, for a change, casual players don't belittle everything that more hardcore players do, and accuse them of rushing through content too fast.

It's not really an issue of them rushing I think. They do tend to go through content quite fast but I don't think it happens intentionally (unless otherwise stated, e.g. world firsts etc). I believe that GW2 has a decent amount of content, but maybe not the kind of content that traditional hardcore players want.

The truth is that a game doesn't need to have tons and tons of content to be successful with the hardcore crowd - but it does have to have content that is designed to appeal to them. An example? Faster Than Light. This little indie game is very small and very simple - but it's a difficult niche game that has a dedicated fanbase who play it for hours on end. Simply because the little content it has is designed to not only provide a challenge, but it's also flexible, rewarding and designed in such a way that you don't have the same experience twice.

And for the record, I don't mind hardcore players going through the content quickly, why should I I just don't like it when they complain too much about it. It does tend to get tiresome to see the "there's no content" threads in just about every game forum. Though it's mostly the attitude that determines if the thread will piss me off or not.

[AndrewSX]

Heart Collector, on 25 October 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

It's not really an issue of them rushing I think. They do tend to go through content quite fast but I don't think it happens intentionally (unless otherwise stated, e.g. world firsts etc). I believe that GW2 has a decent amount of content, but maybe not the kind of content that traditional hardcore players want.

That is another fair point.

DG design and no raid/grind over exotic gear has taken a lot of usual MMO players unprepared.

(but is a pro, not a cons, in my eyes.)

[Heart Collector]

AndrewSX, on 25 October 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

That is another fair point.

DG design and no raid/grind over exotic gear has taken a lot of usual MMO players unprepared.

(but is a pro, not a cons, in my eyes.)

It's a pro in my eyes as well.

Truthfully I've been kind of unfair on "traditional" MMOers in some of my posts, but those were more annoyed reactions to certain types of whine threads and posts (and I do tend to snap at people when I'm irritated, its a character flaw I must work on!). But traditional MMOers do seem to be rather fixated on certain things that GW2 does not offer, and seem to not really want to accept that. Which is understandable (I myself am a rather picky person in some things), but it can get tiresome when they go on and on about it! Of course not all of them do, but its still a common sight on the boards.

[Umie]

it's met all of my expectations. game started off on a high note, and it's only going up from here. the game has actually grown in popularity.

[fatality39]

There are no real, hard numbers that back up your statement. My guild went from 50 logged in daily to 25 on average.  I've got friends in other guilds that say the same. This is normal dropoff, but around month 3 if new content/big fixes and changes to keep the playerbase left then the game drops down to single A mmo ala warhammer, swtor etc...

[Bloodtau]

fatality39, on 25 October 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

There are no real, hard numbers that back up your statement. My guild went from 50 logged in daily to 25 on average.  I've got friends in other guilds that say the same. This is normal dropoff, but around month 3 if new content/big fixes and changes to keep the playerbase left then the game drops down to single A mmo ala warhammer, swtor etc...

my guild went from 40 active down to 2 now. People are deffo leaving.

[Wayshuba]

I can only speculate based on what I see within our guild.

First, I will say this. Our guild is 11 years old and started in Lineage in June 2002 and has gone through five MMOs (this being the fifth). Generally, most members move from MMO to MMO with the guild.

In Lineage II, it took almost two years for membership to become infrequent in log in.

Next WoW held for almost two years before the drop off.

In LOTRO, it took almost two years before members started becoming infrequent at best with log ins and actually held fairly strong until about three-four months after F2P.

In SWTOR, it took six months.

With GW2, it has already happened only two months from launch.

We have more than 120 members and roughly 8-10 are now logging in regularly. It is the most dramatic drop off we have seen in all the MMOs we have played. Far too many, far too fast.

I will say this. It is a troubling sign. But I do not know if this means the game has longevity or not.

Edited by Wayshuba, 25 October 2012 - 08:19 PM.

[fatality39]

Wayshuba, on 25 October 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

I can only speculate based on what I see within our guild.

First, I will say this. Our guild is 11 years old and started in Lineage in June 2002 and has gone through five MMOs (this being the fifth). Generally, most members move from MMO to MMO with the guild.

In Lineage II, it took almost two years for membership to become infrequent in log in.

Next WoW held for almost two years before the drop off.

In LOTRO, it took almost two years before members started becoming infrequent at best with log ins and actually held fairly strong until about three-four months after F2P.

In SWTOR, it took six months.

With GW2, it has already happened only two months from launch.

We have more than 120 members and roughly 8-10 are now logging in regularly. It is the most dramatic drop off we have seen in all the MMOs we have played. Far too many, far too fast.

I will say this. It is a troubling sign. But I do not know if this means the game has longevity or not.

Yes, this is what is happening in my guild. Same thing happened in SWTOR....just two months in. Not a good sign imo.

[Dasryn]

im not sure what this thread is about.  is there actual concern at this point over the longevity of GW2?

cuz the game has been out for 2 months.  only two months.  just two months ago it launched.  thats 8 weeks.

i havent even bought my wife a copy of the game yet (she wont play another mmo unless she has a second monitor).

i think, if there is actual concerns for the longevity of this game now. . . that is NOT good for this game.

but tbh, i think the mmorpg genre as a whole is in jeopardy.  SWTOR really scared a lot of devs.  i dont think we will see another high budget mmorpg for a long time.

i think the player base needs to get their heads out of their asses as far as their expectations and sense of entitlement before we are stuck playing a bunch of chinese f2p garbage gimmick p2w garage mmorpgs.

[Bloodtau]

Rickter, on 25 October 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

im not sure what this thread is about.  is there actual concern at this point over the longevity of GW2?

cuz the game has been out for 2 months.  only two months.  just two months ago it launched.  thats 8 weeks.

i havent even bought my wife a copy of the game yet (she wont play another mmo unless she has a second monitor).

i think, if there is actual concerns for the longevity of this game now. . . that is NOT good for this game.

but tbh, i think the mmorpg genre as a whole is in jeopardy.  SWTOR really scared a lot of devs.  i dont think we will see another high budget mmorpg for a long time.

i think the player base needs to get their heads out of their asses as far as their expectations and sense of entitlement before we are stuck playing a bunch of chinese f2p garbage gimmick p2w garage mmorpgs.

I've been in a few mmo's that flopped (WAR, DCUO, SWTOR) and it was always around month 2 when stuff started going down hill and people started leaping ship in large numbers. Lets grit our teeth and pray GW2 pulls through this. As I mentioned above, having no sub is the games biggest lifeline at the minute

[thartalion]

I think it will last. I still see alot of random (and very helpful) people on the different maps and during events. If i die, there's always someone near to put me back up. There's always someone in /map looking for help with a skill challenge or Vista. It probably varies between servers i guess.

I can only compare this game with my WoW experience. In WoW, i rarely met anyone outside of Stormwind/Goldshire. People logged in for  scheduled raids and that's it. Probably the reason why they implemented the cross-server dungeon finder. Pretty sad... and we're not there yet in GW2.

[Knuckledust13]

No, it doesn't have potential for longevity.

First of all, they plain and simple lied to their old and most loyal customers on their many pre-release interviews and Manifesto. The game we received is NOTHING like the game they pictured. Sure, it can be fun from level 1 to 40 but then you see how rushed it was and how badly done things became.

Grinding 750 hours for a skin is NOT my definition of fun. And since the grind for gear from other MMOs is replaced by the grind for fluff here in GW2, it is not any less grindy. You are simply grinding for different things. People will say "you don't have to" get that skin, but you also don't have to grind for that higher tier gear. This is not fun and the design sucks.

Now we are on skins: the VASTLY MAJORITY of the skins besides Greatswords.. plain suck. This is not even arguable. Just take a look at every dagger and offhand. This also proves how rushed the game was.

The game relies heavily on RNG and gamble to achieve things. It feels like a Online Casino to use the Mystic Forge to get, for instance, clovers. After grinding hours and hours for karma and buying the shards, you can simply lose it all gambling.

Skill system: don't get me started. When was the last time you played a mmo with such a dull skill system? I really could not believe at first that I would be stuck forever with that five skills, if I chose to keep using the weapon. I honestly have no idea what the hell the person in charge was thinking. This is the most unimaginative, unfun and boring skill system I have seen. You could as well unlock all trait points at level 1 and have nothing else to do, because progression is also non-existant in the game.

Fanboys can argue all they want, no one returns to level 1 areas "for fun". No one runs CoE "for fun" because it is simply harder than other dungeons. No normal human being can possibly think grinding 750 hours for a cosmetic item on a mmo is fun. If you worked for 750 hours and received an average joe $30/hour, you could buy a mother*ing car

I got around 120 friends on my list since release. On early days, there would be a minimum of 80 to 90 people logged at all times. Now when I see six people it is a miracle, and probably weekend. I logged about 30 minutes for the past month because the game has no incentive to keep MMO players playing. Maybe if you want to play barbie....

Edited by Knuckledust13, 25 October 2012 - 08:54 PM.

[Seipher09]

Random Arenas in a death match. Miss that.

[Ritualist]

Interestingly enough, GW2 would have had more more potential to last, had it been designed to end. Or better yet, end sooner.