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GW2 longevity?

gw2 longevity

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#451 raspberry jam

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:52 PM

View Postfatality39, on 25 October 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

Does anyone think GW2 has what it takes to remain a top mmo long term.
No.GW2's problem isn't (as it would be 4 years ago) people going back to WoW, nor ANet lying to their own playerbase. The flaw is that it does not have a unique draw in any way. The next MMO to offer similar things as GW2 does might suck players away, and so may the next, and the next. It will last, I'm fairly confident about that, but not as a "top MMO". As far as I know, WAR and AoC are both still up and running, but no one would call those "top MMOs".

#452 Dasryn

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:50 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 28 November 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

No.GW2's problem isn't (as it would be 4 years ago) people going back to WoW, nor ANet lying to their own playerbase. The flaw is that it does not have a unique draw in any way. The next MMO to offer similar things as GW2 does might suck players away, and so may the next, and the next. It will last, I'm fairly confident about that, but not as a "top MMO". As far as I know, WAR and AoC are both still up and running, but no one would call those "top MMOs".

but what is the next "top MMO"?  i mean, i was under the impression that GW2 was a last hoorah for the genre for the foreseeable future.  i mean, lotro is still out, then you got Aion, various F2P gimmicks, wow, rift, eve, swtor. . . . i mean, GW2 was the next best thing.

and please do not say Elder Scrolls Online or the FFXIV reboot - FFXIV's reputation is ruined, if it wasnt already by just having square enix's name on it, and ESO is a total joke that is not offering ANYTHING new at all to the genre.  its a reskinned swtor.

ESO missed the boat, its late to the party. if ESO wanted to be successful, they shouldve put it out before skyrim.

#453 Zero_Soulreaver

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:39 PM

The next big MMO is possibly Blade & Soul.  I'm sure there may be others too, but again you can never put a finger on what will be "the next big MMO" because as we all know...hype doesn't help.

#454 ScoutMATH

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:41 PM

depends. who knows, ncsoft might do to Guild Wars 2 the thing that they done in City of Heroes.

#455 Robsy128

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:58 AM

Years. See you then.

#456 beanzzs

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:05 AM

i don't think the game will last. Pvp games are too limited. it is kind of boring after a while. Too bad tho.

#457 Mouse1981

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:26 PM

The WoW type longevity still exists, of course. It's just that a game has to be GOOD ENOUGH to keep people's attention. Planetside 2 is awesome, for instance. I am completely thrilled with it. It has it's shortcomings, but nothing of significance and it's immensely fun.

I don't see ANet bringing more content every 3 months as a solution. The real problem is that they have to bring QUALITY content in. Their very core is flawed, and I've been saying this for a long time now, both here and on official forums once the game was released. I was of course being called a WoW fan-boy, a troll etc etc. But hey, look what happens! So many disappointed fans and so many quitters.

Don't think I enjoy the "I-told-you-so" situation, being that MMORPGs are my favorite genre and I'd love to have an awesome game to play with, especially if it didn't have a monthly subscription. But GW2 is obviously not that.

#458 Stellarthief

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:38 PM

EQ is still around, and by all accounts from friends of mine still playing on and off, still going strong.

A game doesn't have to be a "TOP" mmo to be great.  It has to fulfill its market demand and excel at keeping the players happy. Anet wont keep everyone happy, no game does and honestly, in my opinion, the MMO market is due for a shrink anyway, with people leaving the genre in general.

So, I would still be happy if people kept playing GW2 and the game can evolve according to a more tight nit community than trying to appease the entire world.  I am fairly sure GW2 will go strong for many years as everything is refined, defined and the player base settles.

We still aren't over the real "new player" hump that is common in an MMO (sub based MMOs more or less are determined by their first couple months).  And this isn't even a sub based game.

#459 raspberry jam

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:56 PM

View PostRickter, on 28 November 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

but what is the next "top MMO"?  i mean, i was under the impression that GW2 was a last hoorah for the genre for the foreseeable future.  i mean, lotro is still out, then you got Aion, various F2P gimmicks, wow, rift, eve, swtor. . . . i mean, GW2 was the next best thing.

and please do not say Elder Scrolls Online or the FFXIV reboot - FFXIV's reputation is ruined, if it wasnt already by just having square enix's name on it, and ESO is a total joke that is not offering ANYTHING new at all to the genre.  its a reskinned swtor.

ESO missed the boat, its late to the party. if ESO wanted to be successful, they shouldve put it out before skyrim.
Blade & Soul, ESO, yes even new FFXIV. The next WoW expansion, if there will be one. Titan (or whatever it's going to be called). Perhaps even Destiny might steal players from GW2.

#460 Stellarthief

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:05 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 29 November 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

Blade & Soul, ESO, yes even new FFXIV. The next WoW expansion, if there will be one. Titan (or whatever it's going to be called). Perhaps even Destiny might steal players from GW2.

The next MMO is always hyped as the next best thing, the next WoW killer, etc.  It hasn't worked out this way for any of the new MMOs since WoW.

People will leave GW2 for new MMOs. People will leave for real life. People will leave for single player games. People will probably leave and join the army for all I know.  Coming and going is normal for an MMO. What an MMO really wants is to be alive forever and thereby has to find their niche.  Broad appeal has only really worked for WoW.  Other games have started out well and since have tuned their gameplay to their remaining player base, thereby keeping strong and profitable for years.

The next big thing means not much to existing products imo.

EQ, Asheron's Call, UO, all 3 still going. I bet people are still playing MUDS even.

#461 Zero_Soulreaver

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:46 PM

People just want a MMO that has some longevity longer than a few months.  Their is absolutely no reason an MMO should only last 1-2 months then people start running away from it.  I just find it rather sad how everyone blames the "WOW grinders" for everything yet the more casual players were also among those leaving early on.  It's not just the grind, it's clearly more than that which drives people away.

The game has a mess of problems on it's plate and the fact that Anet patches things so freakin much which makes it hard to adapt to anything.  They really do too much knee jerk reaction patches which causes even more problems.  I feel like MMOs should not need to patch every few weeks, that just seems like bad design to me.  How do you adapt to a world where the rules change almost every 2 weeks?  You really can't.

An example of this-It reminds me of fighting games, Mortal Kombat. You learn 1 character and get good then they patch it.  You relearn again, weeks later they patch. They patch again and again until the point where you say screw it I'm sick of relearning this char when it seemed fine before but just had some small bugs.  That's how GW2 feels except they are patching not just professions, but core gameplay mechanics.  It just feels completely unstable.

Edited by Zero_Soulreaver, 29 November 2012 - 01:47 PM.


#462 raspberry jam

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:21 PM

View PostStellarthief, on 29 November 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

The next MMO is always hyped as the next best thing, the next WoW killer, etc.  It hasn't worked out this way for any of the new MMOs since WoW.

People will leave GW2 for new MMOs. People will leave for real life. People will leave for single player games. People will probably leave and join the army for all I know.  Coming and going is normal for an MMO. What an MMO really wants is to be alive forever and thereby has to find their niche.  Broad appeal has only really worked for WoW.  Other games have started out well and since have tuned their gameplay to their remaining player base, thereby keeping strong and profitable for years.

The next big thing means not much to existing products imo.

EQ, Asheron's Call, UO, all 3 still going. I bet people are still playing MUDS even.
You have no grasp of reality. Of course a big title is affected by "the next big thing". That is why WoW has changed so much since vanilla.

People will still play GW2. The question is if it will be millions or a couple of thousands.

#463 Stellarthief

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:38 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 29 November 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

You have no grasp of reality. Of course a big title is affected by "the next big thing". That is why WoW has changed so much since vanilla.

People will still play GW2. The question is if it will be millions or a couple of thousands.

Eh?  The "next big title" doesn't affect current games on the market anymore than a random new MMO does.  

The developers and marketers all hype their games, (go ahead check all the advertisements for any MMO), as the best thing since sliced bread.  I have seen "THE BEST GAME EVER MADE" attached to a half dozen vaporwares.  Did that do anything to any body?

The next big thing only affects a current game when it really becomes the next big thing.  People don't go and cancel their WoW account after 6 years of effort just because something new comes out.  They cancel it after that new thing keeps their attention for longer than the free month or can get their entire guild to switch permanently.

SWTOR was supposed to be the next big thing. Millions of people bought, less than a million still play it.  Warhammer was the next big thing for a couple months.  

There are still other established games that have a few million playing it (some that were never even toted as the next big thing or very quietly), there are many more games than before.  But to say they are the reason WoW has changed so much and not all the inherant game flaws, class imbalance, lack of features, lack of depth, lack of insight, etc, would be very poor.  Some games have affected WoW and other MMOs for sure, to steal ideas, content, make the game try harder to retain clients.  But dont go toting, WoW changed so much because each of these new MMOs that came out since it and have since gone into a quiet corner to play with themselves.

Edited by Stellarthief, 29 November 2012 - 02:39 PM.


#464 Phineas Poe

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 03:41 PM

View Postfatality39, on 25 October 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

Does anyone think GW2 has what it takes to remain a top mmo long term.  I'm of the belief that the days of WoW type longevity is gone and gamers are way more fickle now.

It's not that gamers are fickle. It's that they have more options.

Halo 2 dominated the same way World of Warcraft did---perennial titles on their respective platforms because they didn't have any legitimate competition. Now? Look at Halo 4. It's just one options of many to play on Xbox Live, thus it doesn't have the same pull.

I think Guild Wars 2 is going to last just as long as Guild Wars 1 did---sustained through expansions and holiday events. I think a lot of players here overrate how popular Guild Wars actually was. By the time Eye of the North released, you would find only a handful of players in Fort Aspenwood. I would often be forced to play on the Luxon side because there weren't enough queueing up. Jade Quarry was dead. And Alliance Battles were generally composed of the same groups. And Guild Wars 1, over time, devolved into two camps---title hunters and dedicated PvP.

The problem is that Guild Wars 2, in its current stage, fails to attend to either of these groups, which is why there's such a large amount of vocal frustration. But that can change. Or maybe Arena Net has a different idea in mind with their sequel. Whatever the case is, I don't believe the system in it's current form is working as intended. And I believe that Arena Net is serious in fixing these issues.

But if they're not? It's no skin off my back. I won't be mad or upset with Arena Net. I enjoyed the game quite a bit, and I really do think I've played GW2 a ton more than I did the first six months of GW1's release. There is a ton more stuff to do in GW2 compared to GW1, and it simply flows better. There's certain things about GW1 I miss that will likely be implemented in future patches and content, but for all the whining about how "dull" the experience of GW2 is compared to GW1, does anyone seriously miss spending hours running against walls to complete their Cartography title? And you call finding vistas and POIs tedious?

Guild Wars was always about filling meters. You just got titles for it before.

Edited by Phineas_Poe, 29 November 2012 - 03:45 PM.


#465 raspberry jam

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:55 PM

View PostStellarthief, on 29 November 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

Eh?  The "next big title" doesn't affect current games on the market anymore than a random new MMO does.  

The developers and marketers all hype their games, (go ahead check all the advertisements for any MMO), as the best thing since sliced bread.  I have seen "THE BEST GAME EVER MADE" attached to a half dozen vaporwares.  Did that do anything to any body?

The next big thing only affects a current game when it really becomes the next big thing.  People don't go and cancel their WoW account after 6 years of effort just because something new comes out.  They cancel it after that new thing keeps their attention for longer than the free month or can get their entire guild to switch permanently.

SWTOR was supposed to be the next big thing. Millions of people bought, less than a million still play it.  Warhammer was the next big thing for a couple months.  

There are still other established games that have a few million playing it (some that were never even toted as the next big thing or very quietly), there are many more games than before.  But to say they are the reason WoW has changed so much and not all the inherant game flaws, class imbalance, lack of features, lack of depth, lack of insight, etc, would be very poor.  Some games have affected WoW and other MMOs for sure, to steal ideas, content, make the game try harder to retain clients.  But dont go toting, WoW changed so much because each of these new MMOs that came out since it and have since gone into a quiet corner to play with themselves.
SW:ToR was never supposed to be the next big thing, except in Bioware hype. If you believe in Bioware hype, you have, as already established, no grasp on reality. Actual big titles will affect any current title in the same genre, period.
And plenty of people cancel their WoW subs all the time, for all kinds of reasons, including playing something else. Some of those people then resub. Again you have no grasp on reality when you say these things.
Also please use legible grammar, I am literally unable to make sense of your final paragraph.

#466 Stellarthief

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:31 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 29 November 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

SW:ToR was never supposed to be the next big thing, except in Bioware hype. If you believe in Bioware hype, you have, as already established, no grasp on reality. Actual big titles will affect any current title in the same genre, period.
And plenty of people cancel their WoW subs all the time, for all kinds of reasons, including playing something else. Some of those people then resub. Again you have no grasp on reality when you say these things.
Also please use legible grammar, I am literally unable to make sense of your final paragraph.

Then don't read it, you make it out as if I care.  You also assume I am a native english speaker.  Attacking grammar is a big move by a big guy like you.

And SW:ToR was most certainly supposed to be the next big thing with the largest budget ever for an MMO.  What else is there to believe other than company hype, media hype?  Everyone was hyping the game.

Bioware titles are always a big budget, big ticket item these days. They have big budget for the game itself, big advertising budget and generate big hype.  Doesn't matter what platform or genre.

Of course people cancel and resub to WoW, did I say otherwise? No, I said that a new big ticket game that isn't even out or established is unlikely to make a WoW player cancel their sub in favour of something new and untried.  It's unlikely to make anyone cancel their sub to move to something new before they figure out if it's for them or not.  The WoW players I know in GW2 are still subbed to WoW, many already having gone back.

#467 Juanele

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:08 PM

There won't be a next "top" mmo except for WoW. Even WoW has had greatly reduced activity since MoP released. It is just the nature of the gaming crowd now. There has been this pattern for a couple of years now, play the new shiny for about a month and then move on to the next shiny. GW2 has a bit of a buffer to this type of pattern due to the payment model so I expect it to be healthy for quite a while.

#468 Dasryn

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:29 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 29 November 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

Blade & Soul, ESO, yes even new FFXIV. The next WoW expansion, if there will be one. Titan (or whatever it's going to be called). Perhaps even Destiny might steal players from GW2.

i cant agree with this.  blade and soul?  really?  because that looks like an anime tittie porn trash game with a gimmicky combat system - it reminded me a lot of aion, and aion sucked.

ESO?  um, no, ESO is not offering anything new to the genre.  not  a single thing.  its a watered down skyrim, and fans already see that.

WoW?  wow players are going to play wow, there is no dividing them, they have their minds made up about that game and how long they should play it.

and i havent even heard of Destiny

#469 farkov47

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:35 AM

i let a friend play my account for a while and he was really disappointed with the game.

'no wonder you didn't like it'

then last night he insta-msg me over Steam and said it was 'fun'.
He logged on a warrior, found the class 'easy to play' and 'feels capable' - he 100% the Bloodtide Coast zone in 3 hours with another random he invited to party and logged off, feeling tired but happy with the FIVE levels he attained.

In comparison, I think he disliked the solo-play and class playstyles more than anything. The first two characters he tried were Thief and Ranger. These obviously did not catch his fancy and his play experience suffered.

To me, what made me stop playing is because I felt I've already achieved what I wanted with my Guardian. I tweaked my build every day, trying something new. Running dungeons over and over. I felt burned out when they announced Fractals. Part of me wanted to beat it, another part of me said it's enough. There's no need to suffer through the group-forming ritual and trying to set regular time to party etc. Legendary is an exercise of futility. It's like trying to convince oneself to buy a car you can't afford. What for?

The latter won out. I felt I've made my peace with the game. While it's true there are alts I've made, I've never enjoyed it as much as I did with my Guardian.

As for GW2 Longevity it depends from player to player. My friend who played for a few hours said it 'scratched' his itch and wanted to come back for more. But he hasn't seen dungeons yet or understood how the lvl 80 end game work.

Will check back on him tonight.. I probably won't be logging back on since I picked up some Steam discount purchases.

#470 raspberry jam

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:46 PM

View PostStellarthief, on 29 November 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:

Then don't read it, you make it out as if I care.  You also assume I am a native english speaker.  Attacking grammar is a big move by a big guy like you.

And SW:ToR was most certainly supposed to be the next big thing with the largest budget ever for an MMO.  What else is there to believe other than company hype, media hype?  Everyone was hyping the game.

Bioware titles are always a big budget, big ticket item these days. They have big budget for the game itself, big advertising budget and generate big hype.  Doesn't matter what platform or genre.

Of course people cancel and resub to WoW, did I say otherwise? No, I said that a new big ticket game that isn't even out or established is unlikely to make a WoW player cancel their sub in favour of something new and untried.  It's unlikely to make anyone cancel their sub to move to something new before they figure out if it's for them or not.  The WoW players I know in GW2 are still subbed to WoW, many already having gone back.
I'm not a native English speaker either. Also I'm not big, nor a guy.

If you believe in hype for SW:ToR, why do you complain about people believing in hype for GW2? Yet you do. The difference is that ANet were credible before they released GW2, while Bioware were not. Regardless of that, it's not the hype that makes a big thing big, it's sales. And when I said the next big thing, I of course didn't mean the next thing to be called "Next Big Thing", I meant the next thing to actually become big. Which can be any of the MMOs I listed in some previous post.

Pretty much all "big ticket" games causes WoW unsubs. AoC did, WAR did, SW:ToR did, GW2 did... Strictly speaking it doesn't matter if it's unlikely or not: the WoW population is still so massive that even an even that is "unlikely" to cause cancellations will still cause hundreds of thousands of them, which is usually a large part of the new playerbase in whatever MMO that is receiving the players.

That in itself is interesting to the topic: GW2's revenue, apart from box sales of course, comes from gem sales. Gem sales only happen if people are attached enough to their characters to want to pay for convenience... In general, pay2win means peoples' motivation to pay is more tenuous than with a sub. Would that affect GW2's player retention? Who knows.

#471 raspberry jam

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:01 PM

View PostRickter, on 29 November 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

i cant agree with this.  blade and soul?  really?  because that looks like an anime tittie porn trash game with a gimmicky combat system - it reminded me a lot of aion, and aion sucked.

ESO?  um, no, ESO is not offering anything new to the genre.  not  a single thing.  its a watered down skyrim, and fans already see that.

WoW?  wow players are going to play wow, there is no dividing them, they have their minds made up about that game and how long they should play it.

and i havent even heard of Destiny
B&S is an anime tittie porn game with a gimmicky combat system, but consider that anime tit porn is massively popular and that pretty much every MMO has gimmicky combat anyway.

ESO won't be as awesomely good as a multiplayer Skyrim would be, but I think it will come fairly close.

WoW is... yeah I know. But you can't deny the sales figures.

Destiny is Bungie's new project, gonna be a space MMO-like game that is not as shitty as SW:ToR nor as RL-killing as EVE Online. Space MMOs is not as big of a genre as fantasy MMOs are, but the question is if this is due to poor quality/inaccessibility of games, or because people are not interested.

#472 AarodCutshot

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:08 PM

yea, I love it. I see this game as the top mmorpg for a very long time... Wouldnt change a thing .... :cool:

#473 Dasryn

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:49 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 30 November 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

B&S is an anime tittie porn game with a gimmicky combat system, but consider that anime tit porn is massively popular and that pretty much every MMO has gimmicky combat anyway.

ESO won't be as awesomely good as a multiplayer Skyrim would be, but I think it will come fairly close.

WoW is... yeah I know. But you can't deny the sales figures.

Destiny is Bungie's new project, gonna be a space MMO-like game that is not as shitty as SW:ToR nor as RL-killing as EVE Online. Space MMOs is not as big of a genre as fantasy MMOs are, but the question is if this is due to poor quality/inaccessibility of games, or because people are not interested.

Destiny sounds pretty cool imho, maybe that will be the one.  but everything else on that list?  honestly i think the golden years of mmorpgs are over.  we're in the twilight as more and more investors are more afraid of large money sinks that dont produce.  you can blame swtor for that but just look at warhammer dark millenium.  they had to change it from a mmorpg to a single player game because they could not find investors to invest in a subscription based mmorpg, investors are too scared.

so as i stated, GW2 is it.  this is it for the foreseeable future.

#474 Vihar

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:20 PM

View Postfatality39, on 25 October 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

Does anyone think GW2 has what it takes to remain a top mmo long term.  I'm of the belief that the days of WoW type longevity is gone and gamers are way more fickle now.  Anet's only shot is to keep content flowing every 3 months.   New games like PS2 free or not are going to continually take players away.  In this mmo gaming environment is it possible for GW2 to stand the test of time like some of our all time favorites?  Personally, it has potential, but Anet needs to ramp it up more for it to happen imo.

GW2 has what it takes, but they need to introduce some things...and I will name a couple.

1. Some incentive to make WvW important or rewarding, rather than just a pastime. Why? It is the main feature of GW2 that sets it apart from current MMO's. Everything else is more or less the same as every other MMO.

2. Guilds need to be more consequential. Guild Halls, guild merchants, GvG competitions, Guild quests or achievements....that sort of thing. Maybe even guild dungeon instances that access can be bought for a limited time with Influence, and awards things unique to those instances, like skins and consumables.

Edited by Vihar, 03 December 2012 - 02:02 PM.


#475 fatality39

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 06:28 PM

View PostVihar, on 30 November 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

GW2 has what it takes, but they need to introduce some things...and I will name a couple.

1. Some incentive to make WvW important or rewarding, rather than just a pastime. Why? It is the main feature of GW2 that sets it apart from current MMO's. Everything else is more or less the same as every other MMO.

2. Guilds need to be more consequential. Guild Halls, guild merchants, GvG competitions, Guild quests or achievements....that sort of thing. Maybe even guild dungeon instances that access can be bought for a limited time with Influence, and awards things unique to those instances, like skins and consumables.

I agree.




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