Xom GW2, on 31 October 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:
The 1v1 power of a mes is not even the real issue, all the spvp heros talking about countering the mes etc etc are not on the same page as people that really want a balanced healthy tpvp format.
Mesmer is not just a strong 1v1 class its an outstanding team class in the tpvp formats and can turn fights with group quickness or moa like no other class. Not to mention portals, mesmer can also spec glass cannon in Tpvp without getting trained like a thief speced class in tpvp gets. I wont waste time explaining the mesmer class and what it can do in Tpvp very few people actually tpvp vented up and compete at a high level.
There is a reason its the most used class in Tpvp by a huge margin and spvp about as much as thief. Its easy to play easy to master and is overpowered.
p.s. I'm not 'new' to mes have been playing it a month in spvp and tpvp my story was about when I first played it game 1 and topped. Nothings changed since then I just top easier now and win more 2 v 1s with it. Also Engineer is far from an underdog.... do you even Tpvp?
You mentioned other professions. I gave you other professions. Do I Tpvp? I suspect that last sentence is just your attempt of throwing something out to sound more aggressive and elitist hence I shouldn't even bother answering, but nevertheless here's my answer. Yes I do, lots. Did you expect me to say "no"? Now please stop raising new topics before you even tackled the previous ones. What's the point of commenting on my use of the word "underdog", which in essence means not necessarily someone weak but rather someone unexpected (hence uncommon)? Is this yet another English language debate on a game forum? Or do you have a point beside that?
Once again I restate my point: mesmer mechanisms are often situational but powerful, in the right hands and in an organized manner it is very strong. 1v1 or team fight. I've never once said that mesmer is not powerful, and I've stated several times that I'd expect balance. I wouldn't expect the balance to happen in the form of class mechanism, hence likely mesmers will remain powerful in the right hands no matter how much balance there is. By that I mean, they're probably not going to take away illusions/shatters since this is a defining mechanism for mesmers. They're likely also not going to take away temporal distortion/illusive skills from mesmers because again, that is the theme of the profession. What we'd likely see is probably duration decrease, range limitation, and other things like that --- Which won't stop clever uses of these powerful skills, and hence you'd always find a good mesmer to be a strong component of tPvP.
Now does that mean it's "easy to play"? How are you defining "easy to play" anyways? Since there's no clear metric, I assumed that you mean 1v1 win and lose. I wouldn't agree with this metric at all, but that seems to be what most of these posts are talking about. Now if you're talking about team fights, then I'd ask again: what do you mean by easy? How is "portal" easier than "net turret"? How is "illusions" easier than "virtues"? I'm honestly not even sure what you mean by this now --- Do you mean it's easier to find a tPvP group as a mesmer? Or does this go back to your "personal experience" again, without any other metric? If so, then we really can't go on with this discussion: you say it's easy, I say it's not. You don't give me anything else to work with, so I can't even comment on it.
Here's a metric that I'd propose though: take a new player, let an experienced player give him a 10 min tutorial. Now both the new player and the experienced player make a PvP character of the same profession, same build, same stats. Now let them play against each other, and observe the win/lose ratio and how it changes over time. This curve would then suggest the "knowledge" required to play that particular profession over time including knowledge of strategies as well as knowledge of the profession mechanism itself. This same metric is used by academic studies on many gaming project, so I think it's a good fit here.
Now, are you telling me the difference between a very experienced/good mesmer and a new mesmer, regardless of specs, is smaller than any other professions in the game? You seemed to suggest that you've played mesmers a lot, and no doubt you probably encountered lots and lots of other mesmers since there are so many in the game --- Do you win over those new players? If not, then I really don't see how you can "own faces in PvP" when there are that many bandwagon mesmers around who can take you out. If you do, then that just proved my point: specs matters, but for most part mesmer is not an "easy profession".
If you'd like a more theoretical approach, here it is: mesmers, with unpredictable illusion spawn locations and illusion behaviours, and with heavy emphasis on the reaction of other players, is a profession with many chaotic variables. In order to be the "best mesmer there is", you need to have strategic options lining up for this vast number of possible scenarios --- This number correlates directly to "ease of profession". Elixir engineers have random effects (for example, either stealth or stability), and those ones who have options lined up for each possibility will be the ones who stand out from the crowed (even if he's hoping for the stealth, he can quickly adapt and make the most out of it if he gets stability instead). As for mesmers, a mesmer who keeps tabs on where his illusions are, which skills is he going to use next and what kind of/where the illusion is going to spawn, as well as all the CDs on both of his weapons, will be much more efficient than a mesmer who just "cast GS 2 and 3 on CD, mind wrack on CD, switch to sword when enemy gets close and press 2". Making models of the game play for each of the professions will reveal much about their complexity --- Just like modeling a chess game, except the decision criteria and general rules obviously differ. And for these models, even before doing all the hard work, a simple search in the literature will tell you that nested chaotic variables quickly increases the complexity of a system.
Unless, if by "good mesmer" you simply mean someone who can push buttons when they're off CD.
I'm just saying, I've no idea where you get the "mesmer is easy" idea from. The complexity of the profession is what draws me into playing one, it's the same reason that I've played ele and engi because I like juggling tons of skills in quick succession to find out what works and what doesn't. Upon learning that blind/aegis guardians need to know the fight and watch everything around them (condition on mobs, boon on oneself, locations of everyone and mobs animations, etc) to be an efficient "tank" in dungeons, I got intrigued and that's where my guardian started. Mesmer is overpowered in PvP? Maybe, I've never argued against that. If ANet gives it a nerf, I'd have no problem. But easy? No. I'd like to see your proof, or your logic behind it, if that's what you insist on.
Edited by CepaCepa, 31 October 2012 - 08:13 PM.