Xom GW2, on 02 November 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:
I guess time will tell. Who are the pretenders and who are the real deals.
I have to comment on one thing.... top players dont complain that something very strong is also faceroll??????
LOL you have never pvped on vent in your life.
If we want to play the 'no top player would ever say that!' game.... here is my view.
Top players dont makes posts saying overpowered shit is balanced, fotm kids that get carried do that and when the balance comes they cant adapt and fade into bottom/med tier play.
Ill role the overpowered unbalanced shit in a games if I must, but I dont pretend its balanced, what i will do is flame the * out of people defending the class. I likely play it better then them anyway. Because if you dont think a mes is overpowered if you are not dominating with it you are a terrible pvp gamer.Based on the posts here Omar is probably the only decent player. The rest of you noob stomp in spvp and think you are pro.
First, I'm going to assume that these replies are at least partially targeted at my earlier response, which I'm not too sure because 1. You didn't target any of the things that I've mentioned earlier 2. You know, since you don't quote. So maybe I'm being a bit touchy and defensive here, but here goes my reply.
Have you read what I wrote? Since you're on the forum still, I assume communication is at least "somewhat" useful to you, and communication starts with reading what others have wrote, even if it is a long opposing argument. Let's be very clear here: I've never once said that mesmers are not powerful, the WHOLE argument started from an implication that playing a mesmer is "easy at all levels" and that "mesmers in any spec/build can faceroll others", which I have repeatedly disagreed with and repeatedly asked for a clarification on what you mean by "easy". I said time and time again that "mesmer will be very strong and likely always remain very strong in the hands of people who knows their stuff", and I've suggested a reason behind it: "because of the inherent complexity in the profession mechanisms as well as the philosophy behind the profession". My point is that it being powerful in that scenario does not mean it is "easy", you need knowledge and experience in order to uncover all of its "powerful potential". But you still kept referring "easy" and "powerful" like those are the same things, which I've not only stated that I disagree with, but also listed WHY I'd disagree.
If you in turn disagree with any of the reasons that I've mentioned, please state them, maybe I'm missing something, that is entirely possible. I'm not being defensive or sarcastic here, really, it is merely that if you don't target one of these reasons this argument will be going no where and we'd be stuck here saying egotistic things like "oh I'm a pro" and "no you're not", which as I mentioned, I do not want to go into. I probably shouldn't have putted that point in the earlier post to begin with, anything that involves people's ego, or my own, would always catch fire.
Let's just put this argument to rest. If you still want to go on about it, let me know more clearly, otherwise I'd just assume we're not talking about the "ease of the profession" anymore. And no, again I've got no interest in arguing "which profession is OP and which is not", all I had problem with is the whole notion of stating something as "easy" with no back-up and no clear definition.
sagasaint, on 02 November 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:
pro players dont complain because pro players already play the OP classes.
thats the thing with being pro, you must always ensure you are on the top of the wave
show me how many truly successful (worldwide scale) paid tourney teams run without double bunker (usually guardian) + mesmer.
show me how many truly successful paid tourney teams use variations of rangers necros warriors or eles with non-cheese builds their premades.
I love how people think that pro players play stupid, strange or improvised builds in an UP class and own with them
pro players focus on mastering the FOTM classes, they wouldnt waste a single second of their existance on something that is an atom less than optimum.
nerf the FOTM and pros wont waste their breath complaining on the forums
its a waste of time, time they could devote to finding out whats the next FOTM and run it all day long
they dont care 2 hoots what they play, as long as its empirically the best
Precisely. It shouldn't matter to those "pro players" which profession is "OP". In the worst case they'll just do something like entire mesmer team versus entire other mesmer team. It's a chess game, a chess game where rules change as a rule of the game. Hence the fastest to adapt to new rules win the first match. The only one who may be concerned by this is ANet, if they want to promote profession diversity and all, but ultimately it doesn't even matter too much to them.
These "pro players" hopping around FOTM professions though, doesn't mean everyone else should just follow. As far as I'm concerned those "pro players" are not playing the same game with the rest of us. They're in their own league of e-sporting where winning a match is first priority and sometimes the sole reason for their play time. While most casual players, doesn't matter how good you are, simply play this game as an MMORPG where winning a match is very enjoyable, but not to the exclusion of everything else. Also, these "pro players" have presumably maximized their knowledge, skill, and experience in the PvP aspect of the game and make very few mistakes --- For such conditions, optimization becomes possible and meaningful, and everything comes down to modelling of the system and all kinds of equations/analysis. For casual players, many have not gotten even NEAR that cap, even the experienced casual players can rarely perform flawless game play. In those situations, profession balances is often overshadowed by the experience/knowledge one has with that profession.
Balancing between the professions also shouldn't matter to any bandwagon hoppers, they'll just hop to the next FOTM profession anyways. Much like the pro, but of course they're a lot less.... pro. Moreover, the OP of this post advocated (and I agree) that long term casual players of particular professions shouldn't care about these things either --- if you're very fond of certain professions, likely "to win" is not the only criteria in your books. You may like the theme. You may like the playstyle. You may have grown attached to your characters. And those things do not get "balanced" away. As a casual player (again, doesn't matter how good you are), you'd likely play against other casual players, and in this case personal skill/experience would matter more than profession balance, and sticking with a particular profession can provide you with just that.
Edited by CepaCepa, 02 November 2012 - 10:08 PM.