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Has shortbow fallen out of favor?


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#1 BarbieQFreak

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 07:05 PM

I was wending my way through the sea of suggestions when I realized that the only mention of "shortbow" was coupled with the words "I don't like the." Was there a nerf that I missed? I've been running a shortbow for about a month now, and the day I switched from s/p I haven't regretted it since. I just wonder why it doesn't seem to be as popular a choice any more :/

#2 Al Shamari

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 07:18 PM

Short bow has always kind of been the underdog weapon for Thieves, but anyone who knows its damage magnitude loves it.

#3 Korra

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 07:21 PM

The only concern i have about the shortbow is the 900 range on Autoattacks, which makes it kinda risky in WvW, you can Cluster bomb the enemies, but its easy to avoid and somehow kinda boring.

Anet give us a rifle. 1200 range pl0x

Also Shortbow is a lifesaver.

#4 Vysander

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 08:49 PM

Auto attack range of 1200 would be nice, but then its not like our other ranged weapon is any better.

I have ran the Shortbow... i think since i got a Shortbow on my thief, and honestly i cant think of anything i would want to use besides it. (I typically run Dagger/Dagger as my other weapons, but will switch to P/P, D/P or S/P etc as the situation fits)

I don't think its gone out of favor, so much as its not an instakill-able weapon.... so its not adopted by the masses of FotM thieves, but any proper thief wouldn't be without it (in WvW/PvE).

#5 sakura az

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 01:44 AM

View PostVysander, on 26 October 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

Auto attack range of 1200 would be nice, but then its not like our other ranged weapon is any better.

I have ran the Shortbow... i think since i got a Shortbow on my thief, and honestly i cant think of anything i would want to use besides it. (I typically run Dagger/Dagger as my other weapons, but will switch to P/P, D/P or S/P etc as the situation fits)

I don't think its gone out of favor, so much as its not an instakill-able weapon.... so its not adopted by the masses of FotM thieves, but any proper thief wouldn't be without it (in WvW/PvE).
This mirrors my opinion as well, I run a short bow as my second weapon for everything I do with my thief.  Nothing beats having a third (or more depenind on initiative) Dodge/evade at your fingertips.  The other skills are gravy somewhat depending on your traits, unexploded clusterbomb is a very strong aoe hit at 1200 range, personally I've seen a 5k hit from it in wvw ( I'm betting it was a low level character tho ). Poison field also does aoe weakness when blast finished or traited with 15 in power. And the auto attack has a huge range for its bounce..

It just doesn't throw up the huge numbers that other weapons do, but it provides a wonderful combo field to blast finish, you have your own blast finisher, you got an evade and then an expensive blind/gap closer/escape skill. I use it heavily in the beginning of fights in dungeons because I can poison and weaken a large number of foes before diving in to kill them, helping my party by foes not hitting as hard or healing as much.. and if melee is too risky, I can sit back and take potshots and not be totally useless.

#6 IDarko

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 02:14 AM

Not for me. I still use it in every format. It's still my favourite weapons :) Oh, and it's still a must imo!

#7 BarbieQFreak

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 09:38 AM

O:

I'm feeling the love here guys. It's heartening to see such support for my favorite thief weapon.. might as well rename this the Shortbow Appreciation Thread. The auto-attack range is a bit sad, yes ): but the bounce I feel solidifies its role as an AoE weapon.
   Cluster Bombs are amazing bang for your buck, and on top of that stack more bleeds and cover greater area on detonation; I love the 'selective fire.' To top it off, it's a blast finisher (and the auto is too ;) didn't forget).
   Skills that incorporate evade are always welcome, and the 3 is no exception. The cripple and backdash that it provides enhances its escape and avoidance, unlike Death Blossom, which keeps you in melee range (honestly, on Death Blossom, the evade feels like an added bonus). Especially in WvW, a roll back into repeated 3's will hamper pursuit and create massive distance between you and any would-be pursuers, making it invaluable.
   Ahh, Choking Gas... if Cluster Bomb is the shining star, Choking Gas night sky behind it, an apt metaphor considering its typical uses. A 4 second poison field on command, as opposed to its Necro/Engienade equivalents; this skill is gold. Traited with 15 to power, and lasting long enough to land 2 Cluster Bombs at close range, you can single-handedly inflict 34 seconds of weakness onto a group of enemies. Gold. Oh, and it poisons too, did I mention?
   Finally, our 5 provides excellent mobility, making us nigh uncatchable in WvW, and allows us excellent positioning and initiation. Leading with a 5 inflicts an AoE blind, giving us ample time to set up 4 -> 2 -> 2.

   Really, I just feel that Shortbow will always be my core weapon as a Thief. I leveled from ~15 to 75 as a S/P thief, and honestly I spend most of that time mashing 3 and doing this:

while my cousin on his mesmer struggled to do jack squat. But as I started to encounter higher-level content, I found myself struggling more and more, until I finally switched out my P/P (World Boss mash 3 unload spec) for a shortbow, and I felt so much more useful in my group. I went from being the one dying at the feet of a boss to the one saving dying squadmates, and I honestly made this thread to argue with the pages of people looking for heartseekergg builds. Now, after seeing how much of you still support and stand by the shortbow, I hope I can reach a few more of you out there who haven't yet found the wonder of this weapon.

Edited by BarbieQFreak, 27 October 2012 - 09:38 AM.


#8 darkk zhaitan

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 02:12 PM

I don't think it's fallen out of favour or become less popular at all.  It's still probably the best thief 'ranged' weapon we have which is why I doubt it will go out of favour unless they nerf or buff other things.  Saying that though, I don't really like the shortbow that much because it feels cluncky but I realise it is powerful and more or less our only ranged option.

#9 Darkermuse

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 02:20 PM

I started as a twin pistoo thief, used shortbow at first as an alternative ranged weapon..but quickly fell in love with it.

#10 Knuckle Joe

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 07:15 PM

Any thief that says he doesn't like shortbow has obviously never used it properly. Cluster bomb obliterates everything it touches, especially when detonated and all 3 bombs hit your targets.

#11 redcomyn

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 12:50 AM

Well, I guess I am going to have to disagree with all of you. I do not like the shortbow except during a DE. Yes, the shortbow is great against multiple mobs as long as there are several other people who are sharing the aggro. But when running solo, shortbow is awful against multiple mobs. It simply kills too slowly. I am far more likely to survive using dual pistols against multiple mobs. I target one mob at a time and just keep running, using BP if necessary.

Shortbow is good for DE's but dual pistols is the way to go for general solo PVE.

#12 amon set

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 01:51 AM

Honestly, I would consider shortbow for thief a staple. I mean yes they don't throw up the nice pretty huge numbers that some other weapon builds can. However, in dungeons i like to use it along with p/p while in dungeons ( I switch depending on the number of mobs). In PvE it is also a great way to open from a distance on a group and then go in with d/d to finish. As for WvW, I would not be caught without it because it is good support when you can clusterbomb those pesky mobs on top of the walls when they are defending a tower or fort your group is trying to take. As for traits I run 10/30/0/0/30 and i have absolutely no issue for the most part when it comes to running out of initiative.

#13 dandelions

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 09:34 AM

I love SB <3
Like a ranger but without the shitty pet.
Also the bounec AA is very nice.

#14 Elr3d

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:33 AM

I run the Shortbow as my second Weapon set and simply couldn't use anything else for any situation where melee is unadvisable. The 5 teleport is just so useful to travel/run away/teleport to fallen ally, clusterbomb for AoE fest and the bounce on auto-attack makes it really unique.

#15 Minion

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:30 AM

Shortbow is meh in PvE.

#16 TGIFrisbie

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:33 AM

View PostMinion, on 29 October 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

Shortbow is meh in PvE.

Your statement is fail.

Mass swarm D/Es = Shortbow tagging.  

Win.

#17 Minion

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 12:43 PM

View PostTGIFrisbie, on 29 October 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

Your statement is fail.

Mass swarm D/Es = Shortbow tagging.  

Win.

You know how much damage you have to deal to each target to tag them? In those zergs you get nothing.

#18 Fade_Guin

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 01:12 PM

Try getting in the mass of enemies and shotgunning clusterbomb. So many loot bags.

#19 TGIFrisbie

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 01:46 PM

View PostMinion, on 29 October 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

You know how much damage you have to deal to each target to tag them? In those zergs you get nothing.

Actually I do, but thanks for trying.  Levelled on Jelako D/Es at 44 and Cursed Shore D/Es at 75, hard to do when you get nothing.

Next time try actual in-game experience vs theory.

#20 redcomyn

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 02:30 PM

As I said, shortbow is good for DE's, but it is bad if you are by yourself, which is the case most of the time in PVE. It is easy enough to swap out the dual pistols with a shortbow when you see a DE happening.

#21 Vysander

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 02:51 PM

View PostTGIFrisbie, on 29 October 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

Actually I do, but thanks for trying.  Levelled on Jelako D/Es at 44 and Cursed Shore D/Es at 75, hard to do when you get nothing.

Next time try actual in-game experience vs theory.

In fairness, your both right in your own examples (if Minion is speaking of what i think)

In low lvl DE's (typically outside of orr) you can effectively tag everything with shortbow, or daggers, or most any weapon. In the DE's that Minion speaks of, it is hard to tag with the Shortbow... but then its harder to tag with any other weapon set, due to large number of persistent ground base AoE's destroying everything when it spawns.

Question for Minion: If you dont use Shortbow and clusterbomb shotgun for Cursed Shore DE farming, what do you use? (another class? really no alternative to this... maybe pistolwhip, but that has even less aoe....)

#22 Minion

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 03:11 PM

View PostVysander, on 29 October 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

In fairness, your both right in your own examples (if Minion is speaking of what i think)

In low lvl DE's (typically outside of orr) you can effectively tag everything with shortbow, or daggers, or most any weapon. In the DE's that Minion speaks of, it is hard to tag with the Shortbow... but then its harder to tag with any other weapon set, due to large number of persistent ground base AoE's destroying everything when it spawns.

Question for Minion: If you dont use Shortbow and clusterbomb shotgun for Cursed Shore DE farming, what do you use? (another class? really no alternative to this... maybe pistolwhip, but that has even less aoe....)

I don't. I farm dungeons and map completion. Sitting in one zone and doing DEs isn't my idea of fun. Tried it a few times and there were so many players there who knew when the spawns were coming, that I didn't have enough time to get any damage down. Dungeons profit more anyway. And ya i pray gaem, not just theory.

#23 Vysander

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 03:25 PM

View PostMinion, on 29 October 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

I don't. I farm dungeons and map completion. Sitting in one zone and doing DEs isn't my idea of fun. Tried it a few times and there were so many players there who knew when the spawns were coming, that I didn't have enough time to get any damage down. Dungeons profit more anyway. And ya i pray gaem, not just theory.

Well, that is what i already know (difficulty of tagging in CS). My question is what do use that is better at tagging then the shortbow?

Like i covered (change low lvl to small), in smaller settings (i.e. world completion and dungeons) you can tag with pretty much any weapon set. '

The difficulty of tagging mobs in DE's in CS is not due to Shortbow being meh for PvE, but for the thief being meh for that kind of farming.

Edited by Vysander, 29 October 2012 - 03:26 PM.


#24 Minion

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 03:38 PM

View PostVysander, on 29 October 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:



The difficulty of tagging mobs in DE's in CS is not due to Shortbow being meh for PvE, but for the thief being meh for that kind of farming.

I will have to concede with that.

#25 BakaB

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 04:04 PM

shortbow is essential as your secondary imo (WvW, PvP, World Map PvE). Only exception is dungeons where I usually run with P/P for a more single-target range option

#26 Capn_Crass

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 04:41 PM

View PostKnuckle Joe, on 27 October 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

Any thief that says he doesn't like shortbow has obviously never used it properly.

Or they've used it and still think it's lame. It has nothing to do with how effective it is or how useful a tool it is, and everything to do with hating everything about it's gameplay. Like everyone else, I pretty much have a shortbow grafted into my second weapon set. They're incredibly useful and fill a lot of gaps in thief capability that are otherwise difficult or impossible to fill.

You know what else is useful and fills a lot of gaps that are otherwise difficult or impossible to fill? A minivan. Need to smuggle a bunch of people into a drive-in? Minivan. Need to haul band equipment? Minivan. Need to buy a ton of munchies and beer for a kegger? Minivan. Are they cool? No. Do you enjoy driving them? No. Are they sometimes the best choice of vehicle? Yes.

Shortbow is the minivan of the thief weapon world. Effective, but lame.

#27 Knuckle Joe

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 12:15 AM

View PostCapn_Crass, on 29 October 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

Or they've used it and still think it's lame. It has nothing to do with how effective it is or how useful a tool it is, and everything to do with hating everything about it's gameplay. Like everyone else, I pretty much have a shortbow grafted into my second weapon set. They're incredibly useful and fill a lot of gaps in thief capability that are otherwise difficult or impossible to fill.

You know what else is useful and fills a lot of gaps that are otherwise difficult or impossible to fill? A minivan. Need to smuggle a bunch of people into a drive-in? Minivan. Need to haul band equipment? Minivan. Need to buy a ton of munchies and beer for a kegger? Minivan. Are they cool? No. Do you enjoy driving them? No. Are they sometimes the best choice of vehicle? Yes.

Shortbow is the minivan of the thief weapon world. Effective, but lame.

But you're not going to use a Corvette to smuggle a bunch of people right? A minivan would have to do.

Same thing with the shortbow, in PvE you have to efficiently and quickly kill a bunch of mobs, and you're not going to use a pistol to do that.

The point is, why gimp yourself just because a weapon isn't "cool"?

I guess at the end is just about a matter of taste, but really, be useful to your team (dungeons) instead of looking cool. Who knows, maybe you'll start having more fun when you see all the nice numbers flying all over the screen and comboing the hell outta the game.

Edited by Knuckle Joe, 30 October 2012 - 12:16 AM.


#28 Minion

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 01:29 AM

View PostKnuckle Joe, on 30 October 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

But you're not going to use a Corvette to smuggle a bunch of people right? A minivan would have to do.

Same thing with the shortbow, in PvE you have to efficiently and quickly kill a bunch of mobs, and you're not going to use a pistol to do that.

The point is, why gimp yourself just because a weapon isn't "cool"?

I guess at the end is just about a matter of taste, but really, be useful to your team (dungeons) instead of looking cool. Who knows, maybe you'll start having more fun when you see all the nice numbers flying all over the screen and comboing the hell outta the game.

The shortbow does something useful for coordinated dungeon play? Interesting. You may know something I don't.

#29 Capn_Crass

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 02:15 AM

View PostKnuckle Joe, on 30 October 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

The point is, why gimp yourself just because a weapon isn't "cool"?

Agreed. Like I said, I understand its utility and I use it when the situation presents itself. I just don't like how it plays, either in a group or solo.

View PostMinion, on 30 October 2012 - 01:29 AM, said:

The shortbow does something useful for coordinated dungeon play? Interesting. You may know something I don't.

Spammable AoE Weakness is a pretty handy tool in our utility belt, and the ranged AoE has some advantages. SB may not be necessary, but it does have its uses.

#30 Knuckle Joe

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:08 AM

View PostMinion, on 30 October 2012 - 01:29 AM, said:

The shortbow does something useful for coordinated dungeon play? Interesting. You may know something I don't.

You seem like an intelligent person, I am pretty sure you already know:

*AoE weakness when using choking gas traited.
*Strong DPS with detonated clsuter bomb + bleeding.
*Having the single best, spamable blast finisher in the game, which lets a thief:
  - Give mass might to the entire party WHILE still doing considerable DPS (if you tell your friends to drop Fire fields on a mob)
  - Mass healing with water fields (You may think it's negligible, but I can assure you i've saved my team from a wipe more than one   time with this).
  - Pretty much perma retaliation to the party if a guardian is in your team.
  - Being able to skip unnecessary mobs via stealthing for 15 seconds your entire party with cluster bomb + Smoke screen, speeding up farming runs.

Edited by Knuckle Joe, 30 October 2012 - 03:08 AM.





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