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GameSpy: GW2 Bot Crisis


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#1 Tenicord

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 05:14 AM

http://pc.gamespy.co.../1226506p1.html

And article talking about all the bots running rampart in GW2 as well as other short coming.

I actually happen to agree with this article 100% I think/hope more articles like this start showing up online so that maybe A.Net will start putting things into gear.

#2 TenderFoot

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 05:32 AM

If Anet would police their game like they do their foums there would be no bot problem!

#3 caveslug

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 06:02 PM

Quote

They're probably Chinese.

Keep the stereotype alive! journalism at its finest.

Myself I have seen a lot less botters, then compared to weeks ago.
Also the guild name they bring up is pretty bad. But to be honest in my 6 years of playing WoW, I saw A LOT of off the wall player names and guild names that lasted for weeks or never got changed or banned. I can remember an alliance pally named hordsuxc** or something like that, sorry it was years ago. He lasted for weeks even made it to end game before he vanished off my friends list.

One of the more famous guild names I saw and it depended on server if it was banned or not was "sapped girls can't say no". A lot of people thought this was hilarious, it made me sick. So few people took the time to really think about what it means.

#4 ilr

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:45 PM

View PostTenderFoot, on 27 October 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

If Anet would police their game like they do their foums there would be no bot problem!

^Agree with this^... their *ahem* Marketing Department which oversees ALL Community Relations & feedback channels  (instead of those departments being under Support & QualityAssurance where they belong) only seems to care about enforcement when it comes to people saying naughty things that hurt their PR and question their cashshop?   But you have to give them credit for the Tenacity and response time they've displayed the past couple months on those forums.  ...Many topics censored in less than an hour when we've seen botters still in-game a whole week after being reported.   It must also take a lot of manpower to read that many posts everyday  ...it reminds me of the hour-or-less response time we'd see in Kamadan, some people stood near the Botters/Spammers there just to watch Dhuum take them.  It really brought the community together IMO by having such a display of force so visible. Pity it doesn't instill the same level of confidence when it's only seen on the forums being done to people who may have had a point somewhere under their ravenous Venting.


Not that I'm favor of this Article either... if this is all it takes to be a "Writer", then I think most of us here could do the same or better.  Sensationalism isn't exactly a finely honed craft these days.

Edited by ilr, 29 October 2012 - 07:08 AM.


#5 ToySoldier

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:45 PM

View Postilr, on 28 October 2012 - 10:45 PM, said:

Not that I'm favor of this Article either... if this is all it takes to be a "Writer", then I think most of us here could do the same or better.  Sensationalism isn't exactly a finely honed craft these days.

Agree.  I do my part to "stop farmers".. I don't buy gold from farmers.

Any smart player will know if they buy from farmers they contribute to this.  When ANet doesn't get enough $, the game will suffer.  Ultimately ANet has a high incentive to rid farmers.  It's ANet's livelihood.

The reference on "probably Chinese" is definitely out of line.  Hey my gf is Chinese!  If this writer wants to criticize "koon killers".  Stopping the ethnic stereotypes starts with you, dear writer.

This article makes me feel Game Spy has just taken a step downward.

Edited by ToySoldier, 28 October 2012 - 11:50 PM.


#6 FoxBat

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:58 PM

ITT: People who think the writer is talking about ethnicity rather than the economic conditions that make less than $5 an hour a living wage.

#7 ToySoldier

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 12:22 AM

View PostFoxBat, on 28 October 2012 - 11:58 PM, said:

ITT: People who think the writer is talking about ethnicity rather than the economic conditions that make less than $5 an hour a living wage.

More stereotyping.  If you played mmopg enough you'd know there are plenty of American farmers. Some jobless, some organize farmer rings to the point they can afford to put themselves through college and buy a fancy sports car.  ;) Some just PL for a bit of extra side cash.  I've seen and met all of these people. :lol:  and they are nice people.  Bottom line is it's game company vs farmers.  It's ANet's neck on the line.  No amount of bellyaching and ethnic stereotyping will do much at all here on a forum.

#8 ilr

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:16 AM

View PostFoxBat, on 28 October 2012 - 11:58 PM, said:

ITT: People who think the writer is talking about ethnicity rather than the economic conditions that make less than $5 an hour a living wage.

Let's not start down that road since;  while they are indeed deflating their currency intentionally, ---> it would never have worked for their Trade & industrialization in the first place if ours hadn't been Inflated to the tune of 1.2 Trillion yearly or 6% Year over year through Greenspan & Bernanke's money printing since Reagan's term almost.  We started it...  (IoW: what we do is worse for the long term solvency of our own citizens)

Edited by ilr, 29 October 2012 - 08:03 AM.


#9 KrakenAZ

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 04:29 PM

View Postilr, on 28 October 2012 - 10:45 PM, said:

Not that I'm favor of this Article either... if this is all it takes to be a "Writer", then I think most of us here could do the same or better.  Sensationalism isn't exactly a finely honed craft these days.

You don't have to be a writer to know that what he says is true.  I see obvious bots in game far more often than I do in other games, and just yesterday I saw one using teleport hacks.  You can put your fingers in your ears and yell "lalalalalalalIcan'thearyoueverythingisfine" all you want, but it won't make the game any better.

#10 ilr

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 08:45 AM

I'm not questioning the over-abundance of Bots.  I don't think anyone is

#11 ogrejd

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:34 PM

View Postilr, on 30 October 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

I'm not questioning the over-abundance of Bots.  I don't think anyone is

Oh, there are definitely people questioning it - http://www.guildwars...enanet-botting/

#12 ilr

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:29 PM

Well that's a shame b/c I've reported atleast 2 dozen of them already...

#13 ogrejd

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:56 PM

...and I've reported what I could of two different groups in Sparkfly Fen during the last half hour in Sparkfly Fen.

#14 Graystone

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:10 PM

The article was a very interesting read.

In regards to players being partially responsible for this, I would normally agree. Unfortunately, ANet has taken it upon themselves to make legendary weapons cost hundreds upon hundreds of gold when this could easily have been made into an epic series of grindy quests that would have taken the same amount of time more or less as it would to farm the required gold.

I've spent 80 dollars on gems, 30 dollars conversion to gold (blatantly obvious artificial supply/demand of gold&gems is blatantly obvious) the rest went to boosters. To be quite honest, I wish I just went to a RMT, boosters in the long run aren't worth it, and the 20% difference between gems to gold and gold to gems is pretty fudging stupid and just another way to funnel money out of legitimate players who actually care about the economy and the community as a whole.

#15 Eon Lilu

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:12 PM

Im sure this was already posted? Iv read it before from here.

They have already said there adressing the bot issue, the hacking issue is probably worse right now, I have not seen many bots lately and alot of items are starting to rise in price instead of being worthless so looks like what there doing is working.

#16 Graystone

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:14 PM

View PostEon Lilu, on 10 November 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

Im sure this was already posted? Iv read it before from here.

They have already said there adressing the bot issue, the hacking issue is probably worse right now, I have not seen many bots lately and alot of items are starting to rise in price instead of being worthless so looks like what there doing is working.

Let's not fool ourselves here. While arenanet is making a diligent effort to remove the problem, as long as their gem to gold conversion rate is laughable, there will always be more gold farmers. This is an incredibly lucrative industry, when there's a will there's a way. I don't think ANet has the means for a long term solution.

#17 Lordkrall

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:20 PM

View PostGraystone, on 10 November 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

Let's not fool ourselves here. While arenanet is making a diligent effort to remove the problem, as long as their gem to gold conversion rate is laughable, there will always be more gold farmers. This is an incredibly lucrative industry, when there's a will there's a way. I don't think ANet has the means for a long term solution.

Of course they do.
They can simply remove the ability to send gold and items via mail.

That will however hurt real player so they are most likely trying to find a better solution for it.

#18 Al Shamari

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:23 PM

I personally found this comment more interesting than the article myself, it's an interesting read:

Quote

The worst part about the bots, and the reason it is so hard to stop them, is because 90% of those accounts are bought with stolen credit cards.

It's true. When I was working as online security consultant for Atari in reference to Star Trek Online, just before the PWE sell, I found evidence that well over 90% of the accounts reported for "gold spam" were actually bought with a stolen credit card.

In less than half of the instances, the charges that activated the accounts were never reported as fraudulent. And the way that credit card investigation works, the account will be set up and authorized for months in many cases before the charges are reversed. Some CC companies don't even contact the vendor about the fraud, they just write it off.
I know with STO, getting ahead of the fraudulent accounts was like getting ahead in a footrace with your laces tied together. Everytime you shut down an account, three more appeared in it's place.

These gold farmers advertise, and some stooge is tempted. He visits the site and buys. More than half the time, he won't get his purchase, and even if he does they have his CC info. Now they use that info to buy as many accounts as they can at once without setting off red flags.

Some of these vendors, like Atari, didn't have tracking software that flagged it when someone bought multiple accounts at once. Many companies, like Blizzard, do have tracking for it. You buy three or four accounts at once and see if you don't get an email for verification before they activate. You should.

I agree that bots are a nuisance. But they aren't exactly easy to stop. A-net should make their first effort to inform players that you can buy gold in game using gems. And that buying gems from A-net is going to be cheaper, and 100% safe compared to buying from some gold seller.

That would do a lot to start. When players don't buy gold, the gold spammers/farmers are easier to shut down. First, they won't have new CC info to use to make new accounts. Second, they get reported and lose the accounts they do have, because there will be fewer of them to sift through.

You can never get rid of them completely, because honestly there are too many idiots out there who just give out CC and personal info without a second thought.

But you can do much to reduce it.

For Guild Wars 2, make sure you take a screenshot every time you see these bots, and report them. You can attach screenshots to your report, but you might want to post the screenshot on the forums too, and list the link to it in the report.

That usually helps them see visually without trying to sift through data to prove someone is a bot or not.
Screenshots work wonders, in most cases, and make it much easier to "prove" the guilt that just a report.
I too hope that A-net gets this under control. Not only because of the reasons the author listed, but because the longer it goes unchecked, the more likely that accounts get stolen and more and more security incidents begin to happen.

Edited by Al Shamari, 10 November 2012 - 09:23 PM.


#19 Graystone

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:25 PM

That was the post that originally inspired me to comment here. It's more arenanet's fault than it is of the stooges buying gold.

EDIT:

Arena net is causing the supply and demand issue here, with their own artificial gem to gold conversion rate.

Edited by Graystone, 10 November 2012 - 09:26 PM.


#20 Lordkrall

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:28 PM

View PostGraystone, on 10 November 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

That was the post that originally inspired me to comment here. It's more arenanet's fault than it is of the stooges buying gold.

How can it be more ArenaNets fault than the idiots that buy gold and give these gold-sellers a market to work on?

ArenaNet is not forcing anyone to buy gold. And funnily enough gold is rather easy to come by in-game and is not really needed for anything other than cosmetic stuff.

Idiots will always buy gold because they are idiots. Simple as that.

#21 Al Shamari

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:28 PM

View PostGraystone, on 10 November 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

That was the post that originally inspired me to comment here. It's more arenanet's fault than it is of the stooges buying gold.

EDIT:

Arena net is causing the supply and demand issue here, with their own artificial gem to gold conversion rate.
See, I personally don't think so. I think actually having a legitimate option to buy gold through Arenanet alleviates the problem to a degree. These "gold sellers" would exist whether that system was available or not, and they would actually be more widely used if they were the only option out there.

#22 Graystone

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:34 PM

I wouldn't consider 8 gold for 10 dollars a legitimate option. It's less than one gold for every real dollar, a charged lodestone (i need 100 of these for my legendary and they drop 1 per hour with full mf gear and booster) costs 3.5 gold.

Gold farmers sell 200 gold for 50 USD?

Edited by Graystone, 10 November 2012 - 09:36 PM.


#23 FoxBat

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:35 PM

View PostGraystone, on 10 November 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

Arena net is causing the supply and demand issue here, with their own artificial gem to gold conversion rate.

I think Graytone is implying that the conversion rate is not representative of real market prices, not that the conversion service itself is a bad thing.

RMTs that continue to exist will always undercut the official rate.. but there's the important question of by how much.

Edited by FoxBat, 10 November 2012 - 09:38 PM.


#24 Lordkrall

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:37 PM

View PostGraystone, on 10 November 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

I wouldn't consider 8 gold for 10 dollars a legitimate option. It's less than one gold for every real dollar, a charged lodestone (i need 100 of these for my legendary and they drop 1 per hour with full mf gear and booster) costs 3.5 gold.

And yet you don't NEED that legendary. Therefore you can't really blame ArenaNet for it.

It is a legitimate option seeing as you are breaking no rules by using it.
They fact that you rather would have the game filled with bots and gold-sellers is your problem.

I have yet to change any gems to gold since I started playing, and yet I have earned all in all over 100g without much trouble.
It is very possible to get more than enough gold by simply playing.

#25 caveslug

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:38 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 10 November 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

Of course they do.
They can simply remove the ability to send gold and items via mail.

That will however hurt real player so they are most likely trying to find a better solution for it.

That stops nothing, the buyer only has to list an item on the AH for a set gold amount he purchased. The seller then comes along and purchases the item, buyer gets his gold either way.

#26 Al Shamari

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:39 PM

View PostGraystone, on 10 November 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

I wouldn't consider 8 gold for 10 dollars a legitimate option. It's less than one gold for every real dollar, a charged lodestone (i need 100 of these for my legendary and they drop 1 per hour with full mf gear and booster) costs 3.5 gold.
That's something they're working on and doesn't have to do with the conversion rate of gems to gold. That issue is given reasoning and explained here. You also have to remember, Areanet doesn't want to give a huge advantage to those who spend money through the gem store. Enabling and almost pushing people in a sense (through the tease of a better deal) to purchase massive amounts of in game gold whilst spending small amounts of real money, in my opinion, would give people an extreme advantage. So, they limit the amount of gold people can and will buy through the gem store as a legitimate way to have a slight hold on that.

#27 Graystone

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:44 PM

View PostAl Shamari, on 10 November 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

That's something they're working on and doesn't have to do with the conversion rate of gems to gold. That issue is given reasoning and explained here. You also have to remember, Areanet doesn't want to give a huge advantage to those who spend money through the gem store. Enabling and almost pushing people in a sense (through the tease of a better deal) to purchase massive amounts of in game gold whilst spending small amounts of real money, in my opinion, would give people an extreme advantage. So, they limit the amount of gold people can and will buy through the gem store as a legitimate way to have a slight hold on that.

I've read this already. The only conclusion I can draw from this is that their number one priority is making money. Which goes without saying because that's what they do as a company, is make money. They are setting the market up so players feel that they can make faster progress through the gem store. They are shooting themselves in the foot here because it's tempting people to go to third party real money exchangers. Anything non-cosmetic from the gem store is simply not worth it. Especially when you can buy 200 gold for 50 USD elsewhere.

Edited by Graystone, 10 November 2012 - 09:45 PM.


#28 Lordkrall

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:44 PM

View Postcaveslug, on 10 November 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

That stops nothing, the buyer only has to list an item on the AH for a set gold amount he purchased. The seller then comes along and purchases the item, buyer gets his gold either way.

That would however mean the buyer would end up getting less money (and would need rather high amount of money to start in order to actually post it) than he payed for, unless they gold-sellers counts the tax.

#29 FoxBat

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:48 PM

View PostAl Shamari, on 10 November 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

That's something they're working on and doesn't have to do with the conversion rate of gems to gold. That issue is given reasoning and explained here.

One of the foremost stated rationales for the system when introduced by Anet was to depress botting and RMT by giving them some competition. If it doesn't have anything to do with the conversion rates, then Anet are either bald face liars or extremely misguided.

Quote

You also have to remember, Areanet doesn't want to give a huge advantage to those who spend money through the gem store. Enabling and almost pushing people in a sense (through the tease of a better deal) to purchase massive amounts of in game gold whilst spending small amounts of real money, in my opinion, would give people an extreme advantage. So, they limit the amount of gold people can and will buy through the gem store as a legitimate way to have a slight hold on that.

I'm still trusting that Anet aren't liars and that their conversion rates do reflect market demand (plus tax), and everything else people are saying is the usual internet mythese like opening town portals in Diablo improved your chance of finding gear. But assuming what you said is right, Anet would never have a chance at competing with RMT sites if they artificially capped conversion rates. So again, either deceptive or shortsighted.

#30 Al Shamari

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:51 PM

View PostGraystone, on 10 November 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

I've read this already. The only conclusion I can draw from this is that their number one priority is making money. Which goes without saying because that's what they do as a company, is make money. They are setting the market up so players feel that they can make faster progress through the gem store. They are shooting themselves in the foot here because it's tempting people to go to third party real money exchangers. Anything non-cosmetic from the gem store is simply not worth it. Especially when you can buy 200 gold for 50 USD elsewhere.
Especially when you have the option of risking your account(s) - this includes Guild Wars, bank, etc - for the possibility of getting some quick in-game cash.*

Just wanted to fix it for you.

It's about education. Sure, by all means go through the illegitimate gold seller if you feel like possibly putting not just your Guild Wars account, but your bank account on the line to score some gold in game. I'm not saying that the option of buying gold with gems is a fair exchange, but I'm not saying it should be either.

I do however think that the current market for expensive materials and precursors, etc is rather unfair and something needs to be done about that. But, I think that's entirely unrelated from the issue of gold exchange rates, etc and doesn't have to be handled in that fashion.




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