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Korra's P/D build. s/d > s/p


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#1 Korra

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 12:44 PM

Hello fellow thief!

Damn, fail at title, please some mod change it to s/d

Since the start of the ear of the thief most people who rolled it have been blinded by HS spam, Boring LDB spam and whatnot Backstab build (which i found extremly fun, just make ppl go butthurt)

Today, Bored as hell of my glass cannon D/D set, i decided to try something new, something only a few tried and succeded (i guess, since there almost no s/d running arround), i came up with the idea of trying something i never tried before, to make a s/d build and enjoy playing it.

I never had my hopes to high since everyone was complaining on the forums of how bad it is, but god, what was my surprise when i came up with the build ill show now, it freaking pwns, really.

I tried only sPvP but i would even dare to say its a viable build for TPvP.


Description:

This build is based in the evasion Flanking strike provides, in combination with the solid autoattack the sword offers, also it provides the Dazing entrance factor thanks to the steal + Cnd combo then proceed with autoattack.

It gives alot of mobility thanks to Shadowstep, cond removal, evades, and solid dps aswell as boon removal a high Health pool and great defense.

Build:

http://gw2skills.net...HbNOck4sgYgwkAA

Weapons:

MH Sword: Sigil of paralization, it will increase your daze time, really noticable.

OH Dagger: Superior of accuracy, just for some extra crit.

Shotbow: Superior sigil of bloodlust, to increase dps, simply.

Jewels:

Soldier's amulet: Gives enough defense to stay in the heart of the fight without being downed 24/7 while still providing power enough to do damage.

Berserker's Jewel: Gives some extra dps we surely need

Armor:

Superior rune of the eagle (x5): By using Soldier's amulet our crt rate is null, we need to raise that and eagle gives you arround 12% crt chance plus 8% crt dmg.

Superior Rune of Divinity (x1): x6 eagle is just not worth it and divinity is great to fill this empty slot.

Traits:

Mug
: Imo mug is a must, adds a ton of dps which can help to burst anyone or just when that guy is escaping with 10% life you will be able to finish him.

Side strike: With this build yoou will be flanking a lot, and your crit strike chance is medium low so this is exactly what you need.

Critical haste: Just to add dps, it procs really easy and its fatal when it does.

Executioner: 20% dmg when enemy goes under 50% life? yes thanks.

Thrill of the crime: Opening fury, gotcha

Power of synergy: Might everytime you dodge? works fine.


Mindset:

Try to flank your enemies, dont expect a uber burst but your attacks will crit for 3-4k. Dodge what is necessary. You are rather tanky so feel free to jump in the middle of the fight, always keeping  way to escape, just keep dpsing and they will go down, Learn to play the combos it offers, Cnd+ daze, root+ flanking, etc.

You willl have almost no rival in 1v1 and in teamfights you will provide a great input.

It's a really great build and nice playstyle, something different that d/d HS spam or PW or even BS build.

I really encourage everyone to try this, its really great if you know what you are doing.

Here a pic of my first match with the build, nothing special but better than i thought.

Posted Image

Edited by Korra, 28 October 2012 - 01:09 PM.


#2 Tenofas

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 01:25 PM

How this is better than a S/P build?  Damage is really "low" compared to the D/D backstab burst, and even to Pistol Whip.  I haven't tried S/D yet, and will give it a try, but still can't see how this could be better than S/P.

#3 Korra

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 01:29 PM

Well the point is survival over damage. plus CnD and dancing dagger are great offhands, never said the damage was better.

#4 Shinimas

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 01:44 PM

I run Knight's Amulet+Zerker Jewel with 30 in Shadow Arts and my survivability is ok, I've no complaints.

The damage is indeed low, but it's still enough to make non-bunkers panic. The evasiveness and the ability to lockdown a target is priceless, that's what this build is about, this build forces any target to stop fighting your team and use all tools to create some distance, because he just can't do a thing while you're near. It's also great for taking down Guardians, those guys go down quite fast when they can't use their abilities.

#5 Korra

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 02:04 PM

View PostShinimas, on 28 October 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

I run Knight's Amulet+Zerker Jewel with 30 in Shadow Arts and my survivability is ok, I've no complaints.

The damage is indeed low, but it's still enough to make non-bunkers panic. The evasiveness and the ability to lockdown a target is priceless, that's what this build is about, this build forces any target to stop fighting your team and use all tools to create some distance, because he just can't do a thing while you're near. It's also great for taking down Guardians, those guys go down quite fast when they can't use their abilities.

The build in a nutshell. Every non-bunker will panic and mostly die.

#6 Kutsus

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 02:43 PM

S/D still does good damage once you learn where your damage is coming from. C&D+mug is your burst, dancing dagger can be massive DPS if there is 1 other person in range to double bounce it and your sustained damage comes from the sword autoattack combo.

It's also by far the best vs bunker guardian combo because of the daze lockout. They either dump ALL of their stunbreakers and dodges 10s into the fight or suffer - either way you win. Soften them up a bit with SB (and get rid of aegis) then open with steal+C&D > tactical strike and get one full autoattack combo off. Drop the stolen daze on them and get another full autoattack combo off, then go straight back into the C&D > tactical strike (use your infiltrator's to guarantee the C&D). Sword autoattack is deceptively good. The weakness will keep their endurance bar on lockdown and the cripple makes it hard for them to avoid flanking strike.

Edited by Kutsus, 28 October 2012 - 02:43 PM.


#7 Dairuiner

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 08:40 PM

SHHHH! Stop telling people about S/D and let them go on thinking it's crap!

Really enjoying being the thief that few people know how to counter.  Although this is not a "flashy" build so it'll never be mainstream, i also believe it is the most powerful/versatile thief weapon combo atm in sPvP (though i go shadow arts to be very hard to kill, while dishing out sustained melee AOE dps and more control effects than you can shake a stick at.)

Edited by Dairuiner, 28 October 2012 - 08:41 PM.


#8 crowsnest bomber

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:16 AM

View PostDairuiner, on 28 October 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

SHHHH! Stop telling people about S/D and let them go on thinking it's crap!

Really enjoying being the thief that few people know how to counter.  Although this is not a "flashy" build so it'll never be mainstream, i also believe it is the most powerful/versatile thief weapon combo atm in sPvP (though i go shadow arts to be very hard to kill, while dishing out sustained melee AOE dps and more control effects than you can shake a stick at.)

agree...im more than happy for ppl to keep thinking this build sucks

my build is 10/30/30/0/0 with beserkers and divinities runes..  i hardly ever die due to my stealth abilities

@tenofus ...damage output is higher than s/p because you have 3 damage dealing abilities compared to 1

flanking strike, dancing dagger and c+d > pistol whip (in regard to damage, not utility)

#9 kash

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:42 AM

Close to my usual template, except I'm ten trickery and 20 acrobatics. The convenient thing about this roll out is trait slots, most of which can be changed for whatever you're up against, being the reason I chose the twenty in acrobatics. Of course, I'm not very bright so I try stupid things, so right now I'm working around ambush trap and thieves guild but again, with the traits slots in that build, you can switch to something totally different from one fight to the next without a respec.

#10 Tenofas

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:50 AM

View PostKorra, on 28 October 2012 - 01:29 PM, said:

Well the point is survival over damage. plus CnD and dancing dagger are great offhands, never said the damage was better.

I was just trying to understand, since the topic said "s/d > s/p".  I did not imply that you said the damage was better. Thanks for your explanation.

View Postcrowsnest bomber, on 29 October 2012 - 06:16 AM, said:

@tenofus ...damage output is higher than s/p because you have 3 damage dealing abilities compared to 1

flanking strike, dancing dagger and c+d > pistol whip (in regard to damage, not utility)

Good point.  So it's a kind of mix between d/d and s/p.  Have to test it.  Guess that it's mainly for PvP, or does it work fine for PvE too?

#11 evoked987

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:23 AM

I saw something like this building up in the WvW solo roamer thread.

I'm actually unsure which to settle between S/P or S/D. I seldom get into 1v1 situations, I mainly do wvw and sometimes dungeon. Other than those I'm roaming around, probably DE and weapon choice isn't a concern to me there.

Talking about dungeon/pve, imo S/P might be better. It can be a bit boring due to the only main damage is pistol whip and you can't move during it, and you will almost certain be comply to use it, but I feel there is more chance of winning/overcoming an obstacle with S/P than S/D. E.g. trying to kill something real fast, or multiple foes, or simply just surviving. S/D damage look good from the multiple skills, but when put into action I find it harder to succeed or survive, or maybe it is just me.

Moving into wvw, it is also a difficult choice. S/P is too rigid but the damage is there, in addition the blind and daze is a good tool to have. S/D is much more mobile, you get up close, you cloak and stuffs. The cripple is better than the daze here imo.

Somehow I think the choice would depends on whether I do dungeon or wvw/pvp more? Or can someone explain the advantages in favour of S/D in pve, and adv in favour of S/P in pvp.

What do you think?

Edited by evoked987, 29 October 2012 - 10:25 AM.


#12 Korra

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 12:11 PM

imo s/d is mainly for pvp, in pve pistol whip all the way since mobs will just stand there.

#13 Kutsus

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 12:39 PM

S/P for pve, s/d for pvp. Black powder is too good in pve.

#14 Alzun

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 04:20 PM

One of the things I really like about S/D (aside from almost permadaze) is the fact that it requires absolutely NO utility slots to function.  Backstab requires Assassin's Signet and either Basilisks or Devourer's Venom, S/P requires Haste and generally Signet of Agility, etc.
Anything I choose for S/D just enhances the build.  Shadow Refuge for rezzes, getaways and heals, ShadowStep for condi removal and a stunbreaker, SoS for movement increase and the blind for stopming downed enemies, the list goes on and on...

#15 Dairuiner

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:05 PM

If you're running 10/30/30/0/0 you can also trait out shadow arts to fit the situation.. basically dance around the 3 healing traits (5 sec of regen on stealth / regen while stealthed / remove conditions while stealthed) depending on what you expect to face (always take 2 ini on stealth so you can chain c/d on revealed cooldown for lots of healing).  If you're facing a lot of glass cannons you can swap in a knight's amulet for the toughness and trait up the regens. Facing necros or other condi builds you can swap to a soldiers amulet (zerker gem) and trait up condi removal. Zerker/zerker most of the time for the heavy sustained DPS.

I don't usually like ogre runes for thief builds since the idea isn't to be hit, but you're so survivable in this build I find myself using them... it's ok to get knocked around a bit, just keep going stealth for the regens. Full duration Shadow Refuge is almost a complete heal if you're traited right.

#16 Fannwong

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:51 AM

View Postevoked987, on 29 October 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

Somehow I think the choice would depends on whether I do dungeon or wvw/pvp more? Or can someone explain the advantages in favour of S/D in pve, and adv in favour of S/P in pvp.

What do you think?

The key issue of S/P in pvp is the stationary channel (skill 3), the enemy will sit and wait for the channel to end.

FW

#17 crowsnest bomber

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 05:10 AM

View PostTenofas, on 29 October 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

I was just trying to understand, since the topic said "s/d > s/p".  I did not imply that you said the damage was better. Thanks for your explanation.



Good point.  So it's a kind of mix between d/d and s/p.  Have to test it.  Guess that it's mainly for PvP, or does it work fine for PvE too?

i find s/d is most evective in pvp (both wvw and spvp) while s/p is better for pve imo as enemies are dumb and just stand in your blackpowder...

if you havnt tried s/d, its def worth a try... focus on stealth and daze, and choose whichever utilities you like as the build doesnt require any specific utilities

#18 Condiments7

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 05:55 AM

I have to say this is a fantastic build you've cooked up Korra. Spent the night PvPing with it and loved playing it. It addresses most of the complaints I've had with the other melee sets with thief, namely s/p's rigidity and dagger/dagger's one note spamminess. The build itself is well rounded, allowing you to deal nice damage at range(was putting out consistent 3-4.5k crits with cluster bomb on light armored targets), while still having the tools to maneuver out of harm's way.

It also packs a nice punch. C+D with mug, followed by daze+sword auto is absolutely deadly to a lot of opponents. I was enjoying my p/d venom sustain build, but I think I'll main this one. Thanks.

#19 Korra

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 05:58 AM

View PostCondiments7, on 01 November 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

I have to say this is a fantastic build you've cooked up Korra. Spent the night PvPing with it and loved playing it. It addresses most of the complaints I've had with the other melee sets with thief, namely s/p's rigidity and dagger/dagger's one note spamminess. The build itself is well rounded, allowing you to deal nice damage at range(was putting out consistent 3-4.5k crits with cluster bomb on light armored targets), while still having the tools to maneuver out of harm's way.

It also packs a nice punch. C+D with mug, followed by daze+sword auto is absolutely deadly to a lot of opponents. I was enjoying my p/d venom sustain build, but I think I'll main this one. Thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it :D

#20 Shatteredz

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 10:47 AM

Currently using this build as well in WvW, only difference being thieves guild instead of dagger storm, and I love it.
However, currently im using rune of the thief because of a lack of money. Would another rune-set like eagle give a noticable increase in DPS or would that actually be very minor?

#21 Korra

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 10:48 AM

View PostShatteredz, on 01 November 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

Currently using this build as well in WvW, only difference being thieves guild instead of dagger storm, and I love it.
However, currently im using rune of the thief because of a lack of money. Would another rune-set like eagle give a noticable increase in DPS or would that actually be very minor?
Just get ruby jewels :D

#22 Alzun

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 04:13 PM

Nice build Korra (and nice avatar).
I would really recomend putting at least 10 points in Shadow Arts for Infusion of Shadow.  It returns 2 initaitve everytime you use a skill that puts you into stealth.  Since for some reason I can't link my build, I'll just type it in.
10/30/30/0/0.
You take Mug in Deadly Arts, any traits in critical Strikes (obviously Executioner), Infusion of Shadow, and Shadows Rejuvenation in Shadow Arts.  You can then either pick condition removal for the Master trait or you can gain regeneration whenever you go into stealth.
Shadow's Rejuvenation is AMAZING.  It ticks at about 320 health per second and can easily be the difference between life and death.
Runes are Divinty and gear is Berzerkers (sigil of Paralyzation on sword and sigil of air on dagger)
Just thought I would share my build/advice.

#23 Oheson

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 05:00 PM

I have been trying to get used to S/D for a while.  Lots and lots of movement.  Nice obsure play with thief using this.

Should only remain a few of us using it so less "qq".  Don't get me wrong.  I love hearing the "qq" on the thief as much as the next guy but the only "qq" we will hear on this is that we are "glitching".

Edited by Oheson, 01 November 2012 - 05:01 PM.


#24 Ravnodaus

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 10:41 AM

Absolutely use that sigil of paralyzation. I could explain exactly why... but I'd rather just say that it may or may not be working far better than you may expect, for our daze >.>

Edited by Ravnodaus, 04 November 2012 - 10:43 AM.


#25 Shinimas

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 01:01 PM

S/D>S/P<<D/D

For now.

#26 jazzbrownie

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 03:22 PM

View PostAlzun, on 01 November 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

Nice build Korra (and nice avatar).

Pun intended? :D

#27 Alzun

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 12:23 AM

View Postjazzbrownie, on 04 November 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

Pun intended? :D
Absolutely :)

#28 Dreleth

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 04:45 PM

I've been running a spec similar to yours Korra, it is a blast to play. I run 10/30/10/0/20 and it works like a charm in tPvP. I take caltrops sometimes instead of Signet of Shadows if I need to stay on a point or to get people off of it. I also run 0/0/20/30/20 if I need to stay on a point. I can hold my ground against 2-3 people on a point easily so some of my teammates to come by and help out. The dazes can also shut down bunkers and keep high threat targets under control.

I really like the versitality of S/D, you play a different role by just changing a utility skill without re-traiting completely. I'm surprised people don't run S/D more, but I guess people are too busy joining the bandwagon and running D/D since PW got nerfed (I never see S/P thieves anymore).

#29 Alzun

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 07:32 PM

View PostDreleth, on 06 November 2012 - 04:45 PM, said:

I've been running a spec similar to yours Korra, it is a blast to play. I run 10/30/10/0/20 and it works like a charm in tPvP. I take caltrops sometimes instead of Signet of Shadows if I need to stay on a point or to get people off of it. I also run 0/0/20/30/20 if I need to stay on a point. I can hold my ground against 2-3 people on a point easily so some of my teammates to come by and help out. The dazes can also shut down bunkers and keep high threat targets under control.

I really like the versitality of S/D, you play a different role by just changing a utility skill without re-traiting completely. I'm surprised people don't run S/D more, but I guess people are too busy joining the bandwagon and running D/D since PW got nerfed (I never see S/P thieves anymore).
S/D is rather surviviable, but it doesn't hold points well because when you're stealth, the enemy team can capture the point.

#30 Dreleth

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 02:36 AM

View PostAlzun, on 06 November 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

S/D is rather surviviable, but it doesn't hold points well because when you're stealth, the enemy team can capture the point.

I know about the stealthing thing. You can hold points pretty well with just evades/kiting with flanking strikes/caltrops/e.t.c.




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