88 replies to this topic

[Fenice_86]

My 2cents about this:

New games are not so "NEW" afterall...

Ppl like me, 25-30 years old++, have tried so many games that is damn hard to find something really exciting out there!

And i'll say one MORE IMPORTANT THING:

Soon or later you'll understand that 75% of the "greatness" of a game is NOT given by the game itself...
but from the people you are playing with! (and the fun they bring)

[garethfedwards]

They want it to be exactly the same as their current mmorpg, but they also want it to be nothing like their current mmorpg.

[Juanele]

garethfedwards, on 29 October 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

They want it to be exactly the same as their current mmorpg, but they also want it to be nothing like their current mmorpg.

Exactly. A developer can't win either way.

As an aside, the best way to enjoy new (or old) games? Avoid the forums.

[Arewn]

Protoss, on 29 October 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

I can't agree with this.
For instance, if we look at how the GW games worked, we can see that they were games with a fairly decent amount of content. And that's absolutely fantastic. What's even more fantastic is that the game offers the players the chance to replay the content at will. It means you objectively have a ton of things to do and subjectively you CAN get even MORE out of the game.
But, while the subjective content can be almost limitless, objective content can NEVER be limitless. Objective content will have an end.
The problem is that the devs refuse to accept this. If the devs have 10 hours worth of content, they have 10 hours worth of content. It's fantastic that certain individuals will get 100 hours of this content, but that doesn't change the fact that they still only have 10 hours worth of content.

It's the devs that create the games and it's the devs fault for trying to sell the games as something that they are not. And if we look at GW2, the game lacks the content to support all of the goals A.Net put into it. Their product is worse because they are choosing to pander to morons who refuse to accept reality and are demanding something that no game can ever offer.

Define lacks content..... do 100% map completion, hitting up as many dynamic events as you can along the way (and you likely still won't have done all of them) and complete all paths of all dungeons once, and I can't imagine you'll be under 100 hours.
100 hours is a lot of content, especially for a fresh released MMORPG.
And that's not counting achievements hunting, jumping puzzles, PvP of various kinds (sPvP, WvWvW, keg brawl), crafting, etc.

I understand what you mean, no matter how many extra hours some players can extract from the content, devs should only count on the actual content they have put into the game. But don't turn it around and pretend GW2 lacks content. I don't know what kind of 'reality' you're looking at, but I'm having trouble understanding what form of realistic expectation you have for the amount of content that could have possibly been found in a fresh released MMORPG. More so, how much MORE content could you expect out of GW2, it was already released with quiet a bit.

[Lucas Ashrock]

To be honest, i saw the born of videogames, from pong. I had (and  i still have some of them) all consoles till the ps3, and always a pc able to make me play new pc games. True, some games in the past annoyed me. Was the content, or playability. But honestly, gw2 is the first mmo i ever seen who made me fall in love for the graphic and dodge system and no trinity and same time i just hope to quit as soon as possible. It's not the game. The graphic is amazing, dodge is a beautiful thing, there is a touch of something beautiful on this game. The fault is Anet, how they are managing the game. It's not a matter of "young game give time". It's the core. They keep releasing online patches filled of bugs (even clamorous ones). But not something like "sometimes my heal doesn't trigger". Heavy bugs, something everyone can clearly see.
More funnily, patches who trigger old bugs (like the famous party splitted joining a dungeon which i'm sure, sooner or later will come back). It's strange, because i was a fanatic of gw1 ,till factions after a few weeks, when they killed the 55 solofarm i followed the massleaving in a rush full of hate, adding hate when i saw , from distance enjoying other games, the antifarm code, oh please. But even when i was needing hom points, buying the 2 expansions i lost and eotn, as much i hated at beginning those heroes, i learned how to manage them with discordway, i made all my hom points i was missing in a few days, loads of fun, i was even sad to leave. So i find strange a company who should have tons of experience about how to manage an mmo and patches, keeps releasing trash. Just look this halloween event, a fresh example. 3 act of bugs and trash content. I finally enjoyed a bit when act 3 with mad king went online, expecially when i saw the chest farmable unlimited times, dropping exotics too, again, not nerfed. A hope to drop exotics, and my halloween weapons, i tough, i saw it dropping in front of me plently times. 95 runs, i cannot forget forever dropping a pack of "Toilet Paper", a smack to my uberwaste of time. Fine, droprate is low, i keep trying why not, getting trash.
Let's not mention the support service, a bot autoanswering you haha
Or the support admitting to be uncapable to restore anything from your bags, even if it's the company fault releasing a faulty content.
Oh please, even FFfly has a restore expecially if it's a game bug haha
So what's left when halloween will end? I still have 2 targets, the reason i still play this game, beside bugs and bugs: a legendary, and a scepter i love, i will craft it soon, very expensive. But why i still keep playing this game? Surely because it's without a monthly. And mostly, because i don't have a valid alternative to just quit in peace. So as you see, i don't fit any point of the description of the OP. It's not the game, it's how is managed by the company running it, like if they was a group of newbies , halfway students of an IT university hired cheaply to put together something for a quick scam before the mass leaving, cash out and amen.

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 29 October 2012 - 08:08 PM.

[karekiz]

Couple reasons:
The genre itself is dying no matter how you won't admit it.  The Fantasy Theme Park style play has bee Guitar Hero'd to death and not only are new games noticing this, but so is WoW.  If WoW can't gain subs greater than BC/WoTLK than it is obvious to anyone people are quitting not on a game-to-game basis, but the genre as a whole.

The tech - is old.  You can dress it up different, make it better but that doesn't change that fact that MMO's are old news now.  Does it REALLY shock people that your playing with THOUSANDS of other REAL people anymore?  Of course not.  Back in Everquest/UO it was the geeks that were amazed by this new entire 3D virtual world.  Then it went mainstream with WoW so everyone got to experience the same amazing feeling, but now?  It hit mainstream so you can't grow from that.  MMO's are old news and now considered "just another game."

[Flaming_Foxx]

I generally tend to agree with this.
But I think a lot of games are really hard to get into.

I have always been someone who hops from MMO to MMO hoping that this next one will be exactly what I'm looking for, surprise surprise I am always disappointed.

There is however one notable exception for me. GW1. I've been playing it since it's release and I absolutely adore it. I'm hoping that GW2 is going to end up being the same for. I'm angling towards yes. I'm only half way through the storyline of my first character and I've only played a little bit of WvW, but it does feel like a game that can keep me going for ages and by the time I'm "finished" on one character I'll be ready to try a new race and profession.
I just don't think GW2 has the pull of GW1 though, but that's a bit of a different issue and given time I think it can get there.

[leongrado]

I feel like the games that keep me occupied for the most time are surprisingly the games that make you do the same thing over and over and over again. I've played Counter Strike Source and Team Fortress 2 for years now. The only map I play are Office in Counter Strike and Dustbowl in TF2. THAT'S IT. And guess what? It's still fun. I'm guessing it's the same case with games like LoL and DOTA. Don't ask me why...... I can't explain it. IDK I feel like if games have a multiplayer that can keep you in a euphoric state the whole time are the ones with the most longevity.

[jirayasan]

leongrado, on 29 October 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

I feel like the games that keep me occupied for the most time are surprisingly the games that make you do the same thing over and over and over again. I've played Counter Strike Source and Team Fortress 2 for years now. The only map I play are Office in Counter Strike and Dustbowl in TF2. THAT'S IT. And guess what? It's still fun. I'm guessing it's the same case with games like LoL and DOTA. Don't ask me why...... I can't explain it. IDK I feel like if games have a multiplayer that can keep you in a euphoric state the whole time are the ones with the most longevity.

I play HoN, Dota 2 and Battlefield 3. I agree, but the games are totally different. GW2 is PvE and PvP while MOBA games and FPS are made for PvP only and have a much clearer focus, e-sport and competition. In those games you always want to get better and better and you get andrenaline by playing.

My post only applies to the genre of mmorpgs. Dragging in MOBAS and FPS games into this thread doesn't really add anything.

[Red_Falcon]

A decade ago or more, the goal of online gaming was having fun, pvping, entertainment.
Then someone discovered a mechanic to chain player into a lottery-like type of addiction; they put this big rock in the middle of the map and tell the players there is gold inside, so they keep paying monthly fees and mining the same rock every day.
Everyone tries to copy this but fail because the basis of this psychology trick is that people get very attached to their addiction.

Now GW2 slams the door and offers fun, pvping, entertainment.
The big crowd that accumulated during this time and was tired with MMOs being made into slavery camps for easily controlled people are happy, this niche of gaming finally tries to step out of that format.
The addicts who stepped in GW2 and expected a new rock to mine brainlessly were disappointed and went back to mine their rock.

[Specialz]

Gaming is driven my emotions. The feeling I got from the first time I log into guild wars 1 cannot never be captured by any other MMO. The sad truth is, if you read a lot of complaints about guild wars 2, they pretty much amount to "OH I LUV guild wars 1 and played it for 7 years, playing guild was 2 does not give me the same feeling I got from the first game." And I totally agree, when I played guild wars 2, i did not get the same feeling as guild wars 1 nor should you. Statements like those above usually is the result of nostalgia and not objective thinking. Nothing ever beats nostalgia.this happen especially to games that are release far apart, for example I love golden sun wait for 7 years for its sequel, mechanically its the same game as the first two, both of which I replayed 4 or 5 times, sadly I could not enjoy this new version. The game wasn't different than the previous 2, the only difference was me really. My expectations, as a result of playing different games during those 7 years of waiting, my taste probably changed.

The other issue is that a subset of gamers expect new MMO to have content equivalent to their previous MMOs. They want a new MMO, they just don't want to start all over again. This is especially true with WoW based clones, the game might be mechanically better but everything that made their previous MMO special is not in there and in most chance is just the feeling.

The truth is probably that a lot of gamers for example (inset your favorite MMO name), They want a game like WOW, with better graphics but exactly like WOW but not really WOW, but really WOW.

[Ritualist]

Arewn, on 29 October 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

Define lacks content..... do 100% map completion, hitting up as many dynamic events as you can along the way (and you likely still won't have done all of them) and complete all paths of all dungeons once, and I can't imagine you'll be under 100 hours.
100 hours is a lot of content, especially for a fresh released MMORPG.
And that's not counting achievements hunting, jumping puzzles, PvP of various kinds (sPvP, WvWvW, keg brawl), crafting, etc.

Will doing everything in the game complete the game? Or do certain goals demand that you do select content over and over and over AND OVER again, simply because certain rewards are out of touch with the amount of content available?

[Arewn]

Protoss, on 30 October 2012 - 06:45 AM, said:

Will doing everything in the game complete the game? Or do certain goals demand that you do select content over and over and over AND OVER again, simply because certain rewards are out of touch with the amount of content available?

Many goals require you to repeat the same content SEVERAL times, yes, welcome to MMORPGs. However in GW2 those goals are generally rewards, rewards that aren't required to be able to participate in the plethora of content in the game.
Take the grand majority of other MMORPGs on the other hand, and you'll have to repeat X dungeon 7 times before you're geared up enough to do the next one.
Or are you saying you'd prefer that GW2 forces you to repeat content in order to get to new stuff in a tiered manner?

And to answer your first question directly, no doing everything in the game once will not complete the game, you'll have to repeat many things several times to achieve everything. But as above, welcome to MMORPGs (and many games in general), what game doesn't have you do that?

I'm curious what rewards you're referring to that are out of touch with the amount of content available. It's really not that hard to get max level exotics, especially with their TP price falling and the new Jug's of Liquid Karma. And even if they weren't, rares are viable to use for pretty much everything.

[jonasklk]

For me it's all about the feel and style.

Diablo 3 is a wonderfull example of a game that was hyped to MMO proportions. It was hyped so much that some "newbs" actually began to question on forums if this was a new MMO or not.

GW2 has certainly been hyped too. Yet this is a game that i'm still enjoying sinch launch.

GW1, War AoR, Aion ToE, DCUO etc... All failed at that which WoW had given me. GW2 somehow is just much more my style than what GW1 was.


What i would love to see a bit more of is content and making drops feel a bit more area focused.

[Gorwe]

I'll keep my emotions out of this(as much as possible anyways)-these are my thoughts and experiences:

-in recent times there is an explosion of games that are released UNREADY. It's better to wait for half a year and enjoy the game than to blindly buy it on launch just because it is TEH LAUNCH. Games such as Diablo 3 and Heroes VI are perfect examples(1.71 Heroes and 1.05 Diablo are pretty interesting).
-people are funny. Let's take a boy and a girl as an example: they can not live together yet they can not live apart. Lol? Would be all I'd say. It's the same with games: just take WoW-ers for example. How many times have they said SCREW YOU to Blizzard only to return a week(if a week!) later? Countless. They want a thing yet they don't want a thing(I'll never understand this part of human mind/psyche).
-following that, people want familiar concepts in familiar/favourite setting. Me personally would Like Warhammer RPG of Skyrim's type, not a MMO. But I do know for a fact that zounds of people would Like nothing better than combination of WoW and Warhammer IP that actually WORKS. People resent change even when it is for better(because they do not know that is for better at that moment-for all they know it could be the worst change in their lives). Examples: people love MOBAs such as LoL/HoN and yet they dislike(more or less) MOBAs such as SMNC or BLC. The same applies to MMOs.
-and, perhaps, people just fell for the hype and the game actually does not interest them. Kudos to PR/Marketing team for making people believe in teh hype.
-finally, maybe people are just tired of the same old same old. It wants to happen when all games you play are, you know, too similar to each other. Try reading similar books and tell me when you get tired, no matter how good/interesting they are. For each similar product a man uses, he gets ever so close to the border of oversaturation. When you cross this line, there is no going back and you can't stand such products. This happens incrementally and is a reason for such heresies such as anti Elf/Dwarf movements.

Those are my thoughts in selected words. Enjoy!

[The Comfy Chair]

People get bored of all new things sooner or later, and it's normally sooner. Especially as you get older and you've seen it all before. When i was 7 i could play a demo of a game for hours!

That said, i've played GW2 an insane amount (350 hours), and although i've not got a vast amount to do in it now aside from PvP i still have a lot of fun in it. It's set up very well to be a great staple game for the next few years with content updates and expansions.

[ilr]

jirayasan, on 29 October 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

The problem isn't the game itself, it's the player. You don't have to play the same game every day for 5 years. If you do the same thing over and over you will eventually get bored by it.

Technically I played COH and GW1 every other day for 5-6 years straight.  And I have been clinically diagnosed (and now treated) for ADHD.  So I'm rather curious what their excuses are.

Some of them I thought would be good friends but I guess I was wrong too & they just wanted the next Hype Train to ride on.  And if this is the future of our country, then I think we're pretty much doomed.

Edited by ilr, 31 October 2012 - 09:17 AM.

[Own Age Myname]

New games are boring? Please. If that were true Skyrim wouldn't be so fun, or basically any other game that released in the past year that I'm still playing. No the problem is not the players with unrealistic expectations, while I do admit that is sometimes the case it's not the majority. The problem is developers just creating shitty games. If the game is fun I'll play it; if it isn't I'll play another game. If the game is fun there is no need to worry about unrealistic expectations because the game should be fun no matter what. For GW2 specifically it seems like Anet tailored the game around a cash shop and with it a lot of fun was taken out of the game (no need for armor repairs and huge travel costs). That to me isn't fun so I don't play.

Arewn, on 29 October 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

Define lacks content..... do 100% map completion, hitting up as many dynamic events as you can along the way (and you likely still won't have done all of them) and complete all paths of all dungeons once, and I can't imagine you'll be under 100 hours.
100 hours is a lot of content, especially for a fresh released MMORPG.
And that's not counting achievements hunting, jumping puzzles, PvP of various kinds (sPvP, WvWvW, keg brawl), crafting, etc.

I understand what you mean, no matter how many extra hours some players can extract from the content, devs should only count on the actual content they have put into the game. But don't turn it around and pretend GW2 lacks content. I don't know what kind of 'reality' you're looking at, but I'm having trouble understanding what form of realistic expectation you have for the amount of content that could have possibly been found in a fresh released MMORPG. More so, how much MORE content could you expect out of GW2, it was already released with quiet a bit.

It doesn't matter if there is that much content. I can create a game that has 1,000s hours worth of content, but you have to make it fun. With GW2 why should I do 100%; because it's fun? No it isn't. It's tedious and has a piss reward. Crafting is just as bad as other MMOs with a "small twist", ya I haven't that before..and I didn't find title hunting fun in GW1 and I still won't now. So to me there is little content because most of it is just side stuff that has no reward so I don't see the need to do it.

It's just my opinion, if you find all those tedious tasks fun; go right ahead. But don't come around and blame me, the gamer, that I have unrealistic expectations. Is it unrealistic to ask for an MMO to be fun? Because outside of GW1, WoW, Runescape (before all the bad updates), there is no fun MMO.

Edited by Own Age Myname, 31 October 2012 - 07:33 PM.

[Klaleara]

I'm bored because of what MMO's have become.  Giant pots of money in the eyes of the Producers/Developers.  Cash Shops ruin it entirely for me.  "Oh it's just cosmetic" (Which it actually has quite a bit of stuff that affects gameplay), honestly I don't care that it is cosmetic, it is something in the game that I may want, and the fact that I have to reach into my pocket to get it, completely destroys the experience for me.

Also, grinding for gold days on end doesn't sit well for me.

I miss games like City of Heroes/Villains pre F2P.  There was a sub fee (Which isn't that bad, the friggn Halloween event in GW2 had people spending a lot more than $15 in a single day), and they released huge content updates every few months.  And when they did release an expansion, they didn't just add a couple of islands, they DOUBLED the game (Assuming you played a Villain).

CoX was one of the best MMO's to be released.  Alongside World of Warcraft (A later MMO), also a great game packed with content till their first Xpac.  It has ruined itself with a Cash Shop also.

RIP to MMO's imo.  Planetside 2 may be my last one.

EDIT:

Easy way to state it, I don't like worrying about how much money I have to spend in an MMO.  $15 is an easy solid number.  I don't want to suddenly drop a ton to get something I want.

Edited by Klaleara, 31 October 2012 - 11:08 PM.

[Ritualist]

Arewn, on 30 October 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Many goals require you to repeat the same content SEVERAL times, yes, welcome to MMORPGs.

And as I said, that's the reason why players aren't to blame here - the devs fail to create enough content for the goals they put into the game.
And GW2 is no exception.

[Lordkrall]

Protoss, on 01 November 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

And as I said, that's the reason why players aren't to blame here - the devs fail to create enough content for the goals they put into the game.
And GW2 is no exception.

It is impossible to create enough content for everyone.
There will always be people that feels it is not enough.

[Klaleara]

Lordkrall, on 01 November 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

It is impossible to create enough content for everyone.
There will always be people that feels it is not enough.

Imo, there is enough content in GW2.  Just not enough good content.  Granted that may be subjective.

[Arewn]

Protoss, on 01 November 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

And as I said, that's the reason why players aren't to blame here - the devs fail to create enough content for the goals they put into the game.
And GW2 is no exception.

Inline with the above poster, you seem to have unrealistic expectations of games.
Giving motives to repeat content is in fact good game design. Doing something once doesn't mean you won't want to do it again and having an extra reward or incentive to repeat it, coupled with there being no hard set requirement to repeat it if you don't want to, is a good thing. And if you only want unique experiences, there's a large amount of content to go through without repeating things.

I would say there is a limited problem with some of the player base in that they've been conditioned by certain other MMORPGs to respond to psychological techniques which cause compulsion towards the in game activities, and when that compulsion isn't present they think the game is bad or lacking, when it is simply the case that they are no longer being mindlessly driven and don't know what to do with themselves. (yes this paragraph is a tad unrelated to the above point, just stating what I think is the problem with the players)

[Pipples]

turbo234, on 29 October 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

There just isn't enough content with a new game, no matter what it is. Give it time and it will be a great thing.

There's not enough content for people who burn through it like they're on fire and running for a lake. I have 2 80's and neither has more than 30% of the map complete, most story modes aren't done and I have a whole 4g in my bank. If I get bored I can do a story mode, explore or farm. If I get really bored I can make another alt and level a crafting profession I don't have maxxed yet.

People who complain about being bored tend to either 1) treat a MMO like a job, 2) hit max-level, gear and consider that 'the end' or 3) compare the current MMO market to old-school MMOs

Klaleara, on 01 November 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

Imo, there is enough content in GW2.  Just not enough good content.  Granted that may be subjective.

You're insane. What are you comparing the level of content to, exactly? 3, 4 and 5-year old MMOs? GW2 has more content than Rift did and possibly more than SWTOR did. I KNOW they have more than WoW dod to start, and are about even with EQ1 on release.

[Ritualist]

Arewn, on 01 November 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

Inline with the above poster, you seem to have unrealistic expectations of games.
Giving motives to repeat content is in fact good game design. Doing something once doesn't mean you won't want to do it again and having an extra reward or incentive to repeat it, coupled with there being no hard set requirement to repeat it if you don't want to, is a good thing. And if you only want unique experiences, there's a large amount of content to go through without repeating things.

I would say there is a limited problem with some of the player base in that they've been conditioned by certain other MMORPGs to respond to psychological techniques which cause compulsion towards the in game activities, and when that compulsion isn't present they think the game is bad or lacking, when it is simply the case that they are no longer being mindlessly driven and don't know what to do with themselves. (yes this paragraph is a tad unrelated to the above point, just stating what I think is the problem with the players)

To quote myself:

Protoss, on 29 October 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

I can't agree with this.
For instance, if we look at how the GW games worked, we can see that they were games with a fairly decent amount of content. And that's absolutely fantastic. What's even more fantastic is that the game offers the players the chance to replay the content at will. It means you objectively have a ton of things to do and subjectively you CAN get even MORE out of the game.
But, while the subjective content can be almost limitless, objective content can NEVER be limitless. Objective content will have an end.
The problem is that the devs refuse to accept this. If the devs have 10 hours worth of content, they have 10 hours worth of content. It's fantastic that certain individuals will get 100 hours of this content, but that doesn't change the fact that they still only have 10 hours worth of content.

It's the devs that create the games and it's the devs fault for trying to sell the games as something that they are not. And if we look at GW2, the game lacks the content to support all of the goals A.Net put into it. Their product is worse because they are choosing to pander to morons who refuse to accept reality and are demanding something that no game can ever offer.

[kiseki_o_o]

Just my 2 cents.

It all comes down to the type of players. None of them are wrong, that's just how they enjoy playing their games.

Hardcores tend to:
- Hype a new game out of curiosity.
- Play for a month or 2.
- Because they are a hardcore, they play it all the time aiming to achieve the most and the best in the games by the fastest time possible.
- Eventually starting to get bored - because MMO definitely will get repetitive if we try to achieve the top stuffs - even though haven't accomplished everything in the game.
- Feel bad because other gaming rigs are being neglected and rotten away.

General players tend to:
- Play casually just for fun and social with other players.
- Doesn't really mind about achievement or whatever "best" stuff in the games.
- Play other rigs they have (PS3, Xbox, etc).
- Eventually leave the game too.

[Herr_Gebrechen]

Skip the history part and start at 1) if you are bored by my gaming history.

I don't know what players expectations are today. I started online gaming around 1997. My first real "mmo-like" game was a browser game called planetarion (many of those followed) and it was awesome playing with people all around the world. I stopped sleeping for a while because I got up in the middle of the night for supporting my guild (we called them alliances) with ships or got up because my phone rang because of an incoming fleet one of our American members spotted.
After that I played most of the released real mmorgp that followed, from text based MUD (multi user dungeon) to Ultima Online, DAoC, SW:G, WoW and now GW2 - they all were funny in their own way. I played WoW 7 years, most of the time just because of my guild (which is full of awesome people [50% female] and we still meet once a year)

Actually I enjoy playing guild wars, because there is still much to do - it feels like I have seen nothing yet. I don't have so much time left as I had 7 years ago or as back in the school days.


1) I guess it's the games that changed the players. Some games made it easy to achieve things, giving people success with little effort and that's killing every game that needs a bit more attention, more effort, more concentration on specific goals.
I read a very long thread about the clock tower jumping puzzle where many players complained how impossible it is and that they wanted that 10 points in their achievmentmenu without trying to get up that tower. The other half complained that it would be impossible getting up that tower because charr have huge backs and they don't see their characters and so can't jump.
My question was "Why don't you keep trying, if that 10 point achievment means so much to you?" and none of them wanted or could answer that. I always played games for fun. If something isn't funny, I don't waste my time with it. That has nothing to do with "something is too hard", it's a wrong attitude.
And I think there is large player base created by game designers, which thinks that everything has to be easy, but they don't see the problem that come with that attitude. Easy things get boring real quick and players cry for new content.
In the end we as gamers destroy the games we like by punishing the companies that give us what we want.

[RabidusIncendia]

Own Age Myname, on 31 October 2012 - 07:26 PM, said:

New games are boring? Please. If that were true Skyrim wouldn't be so fun, or basically any other game that released in the past year that I'm still playing. No the problem is not the players with unrealistic expectations, while I do admit that is sometimes the case it's not the majority. The problem is developers just creating shitty games. If the game is fun I'll play it; if it isn't I'll play another game. If the game is fun there is no need to worry about unrealistic expectations because the game should be fun no matter what. For GW2 specifically it seems like Anet tailored the game around a cash shop and with it a lot of fun was taken out of the game (no need for armor repairs and huge travel costs). That to me isn't fun so I don't play.



It doesn't matter if there is that much content. I can create a game that has 1,000s hours worth of content, but you have to make it fun. With GW2 why should I do 100%; because it's fun? No it isn't. It's tedious and has a piss reward. Crafting is just as bad as other MMOs with a "small twist", ya I haven't that before..and I didn't find title hunting fun in GW1 and I still won't now. So to me there is little content because most of it is just side stuff that has no reward so I don't see the need to do it.

It's just my opinion, if you find all those tedious tasks fun; go right ahead. But don't come around and blame me, the gamer, that I have unrealistic expectations. Is it unrealistic to ask for an MMO to be fun? Because outside of GW1, WoW, Runescape (before all the bad updates), there is no fun MMO.

Yeah I'm going with the theory that it's the games that are getting shittier as well, not that players' expectations are high.  Really

And this is not nostalgia talking.  Why?  Because I frequently find tons of old gems that I never played and find incredibly fun.  X-com:  Just played it a few years ago. And it's fantastic a decade after it's release, even though I had never played it when it was released.  Same with Deus Ex.  Same with Bio shock.  I loved older games, and I'm enjoying many of the older games that I missed.  Occasionally there's a new game that's really fun, but it's so rare.

This is not nostalgia.  Games really are turning into barf in my opinion.  Heck, even the games that are catering to so called old school players are turning into barf, since there's so few of them they can advertise simply on the fact they aren't some extremely casualized piece of junk, and not their quality.

I've sort of dredged my way through the grind of GW2, and I'm slowly just not finding the end of the tunnel worth the run.  It wasn't the slightest bit fun making an alt, but I wanted to try other classes for WvW, so I get to grind another 100 hours, oh joy.  But most of the grind was to get money and variety of classes so my guild can really WvW with whatever classes and builds we want, but Anet just aren't supporting WvW.  Even though I've played a lot, it wasn't really fun, it's just because I expected like GW1 to have a lot of fun in the end (Although, I must say, GW1 had a crapload more fun even in the grind.  It was really designed that the road to 20 would have lots of varied, incredibly interest missions.  As opposed to "clear 20 graffitti" crap for 100 hours a char).  So there goes any reason for PvE, which I never found fun in the first place, and WvW, which is turning to crap.  So I'm moving on to sPvP, which I never had much interest in so I doubt that'll last.

Edited by RabidusIncendia, 05 November 2012 - 10:21 PM.

[Targren]

Mootillay, on 29 October 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

Getting bored of GW2 after a month says more about the player than the game imho.  It's pretty much impossible to thoroughly try everything this game has to offer within the span of a month, let alone a year.

Horse hockey.

A month is more than enough time to finish the (horrible) personal story -- once is enough to see what it has to "offer", decide that nope, you're still not interested in PvP, do a few dungeons and realize that when you genuinely can't tell if a dungeon is bugged or just stupid that there are design problems that make them not worth repeating, and get 100% map completion to enjoy all of the eye candy that was clearly the main focus of the development effort. Legendaries, I won't say anything about, other than they're just ridiculous.

You don't need to see every DE to experience "all the game has to offer" since there's very little variation to be had there -- the same old MMO tropes with a zerg mechanic.  There's less being offered than you seem to think.

[Mootillay]

Targren, on 06 November 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

Horse hockey.

A month is more than enough time to finish the (horrible) personal story -- once is enough to see what it has to "offer", decide that nope, you're still not interested in PvP, do a few dungeons and realize that when you genuinely can't tell if a dungeon is bugged or just stupid that there are design problems that make them not worth repeating, and get 100% map completion to enjoy all of the eye candy that was clearly the main focus of the development effort. Legendaries, I won't say anything about, other than they're just ridiculous.

You don't need to see every DE to experience "all the game has to offer" since there's very little variation to be had there -- the same old MMO tropes with a zerg mechanic.  There's less being offered than you seem to think.

On the contrary, there is more offered than you seem to think.

First of all, dungeons aren't that bad.. glitches tend to shorten the experience if anything.  I'm not keen on skipping through dungeons to maximize my time/reward ratio, but considering the mindset of this generation of players, that's typically seen as a good thing.  I like to soak in my experience a little bit, and there's certainly plenty of that to do with 8 instances(with some variation from paths) in the initial offering.

If you're not interested in PvP, you're essentially missing the point of what's been the central focus of the Guild Wars franchise since 2005.  Arenanet cares about PvP play and the true end game to Guild Wars 1 was always, *always* the PvP.  Although, you could avoid it if you wanted to.. similarly, you could avoid PvP in this game, but just because you're choosing to skip content(that the game clearly cares about) doesn't mean that content doesn't exist.

As for personal story, I wasn't all that excited about it either, but some folks are and may feel inclined to make new characters simply to try different paths.  You can't use your own experience as a gauge for everyone else.  Not to mention, you should probably make new characters just to give yourself some variety in play style.  Don't want to make a new character? Try new weapons, new traits, gear up a bit.  Definitely, don't come to this forum and act like a douche to an audience that is quite happy with the game.