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Is short build viable instead of p/p with Minion's Invincible Thief Build?


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#1 silentdecay01

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:41 AM

I'm doing the d/d/p/p condition build posted in Minion's guide on this site.


I have a question, since I read his guide he uses p/p mostly for dung for the blind to be a bit tanky.

I don't plan to do any dung for a while, Would d/d/Short bow


with his condition build 10/x30/x/x30 build work instead of the duel pistols? I think I can find more use with the short bow while soloing with D/D and in WVW


(= I know short bow is prob the least used weapon by this profession but looks fun


I plan to do more WvW when I hit 80 more then anything. And short bow with d/d and a cond build looks pretty nice in Wvw for the AOE/bleeds

Edited by silentdecay01, 30 October 2012 - 03:49 AM.


#2 silentdecay01

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 08:36 AM

anyone? know?

#3 Dimday

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 09:19 AM

Yep, SB works just fine with a D/D Condition build. Personally I prefer a SB most of the time since you should be really survivable anyway considering the amount of invincibility frames you'll have thanks to dodges and LDB. A pistol offhand is really great as a support tool though but for WvW and soloing SB is far better.

#4 Rachmani

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:20 PM

Guys... just start to test for yourself!
Neither is the SB the least used weapon on this profession, nor has Minion declared that by using his build you have to stop thinking for yourself.
Just go out and test it!
Get a feeling for the talents behind your build and start making decisions on your own.

Sorry if that came across a bit harsh, but the answer lies right in front of you.

#5 silentdecay01

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:53 PM

View PostRachmani, on 30 October 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

Guys... just start to test for yourself!
Neither is the SB the least used weapon on this profession, nor has Minion declared that by using his build you have to stop thinking for yourself.
Just go out and test it!
Get a feeling for the talents behind your build and start making decisions on your own.

Sorry if that came across a bit harsh, but the answer lies right in front of you.


uh no,  it is the least used as it not many use out side of solo and wvw play, short bow is one of the least used thief weapon, And asking questions which I have asked is what this forum is about, gathering info with other players who may already had good result or failure with it, and who may have more knowledge to share, your kind of crap is annoying on forums that are used to talk about pve thief builds, I been away for 2 months and was wondering what most people are using/trying. Short bow has fell out of style of late, more using D/D with S/P ect.

Edited by silentdecay01, 30 October 2012 - 06:55 PM.


#6 Dairuiner

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:08 PM

View Postsilentdecay01, on 30 October 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

View Postsilentdecay01, on 30 October 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

. Short bow has fell out of style of late, more using D/D with S/P ect.
(= I know short bow is prob the least used weapon by this profession but looks fun


Why are you saying these things? Is not true at all in my experience... rarely do I run into thieves not keeping a short bow offhand, it's pretty much universal anywhere except dungeon fight-specific loadouts.

As for sPvP and WvW... yea, I'd say 99.9% of thieves are using a SB. And the 0.1% who aren't, either:

1) should be

or

2) are built for a very specific kamakazi-type mission, giving up the best mobility in the game in order to kill a certain type of target (i.e. tPvP bunker buster.)

Edited by Dairuiner, 30 October 2012 - 07:17 PM.


#7 Rachmani

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:22 PM

@ silentdecay01

I know what forums are for, and I in fact do post on nonsense stuff from time to time... actually rather often.
However I do think that the question you posted isn't a true question, but rather a request for reassurance that D/D with SB wouldn't be... I don't know noobish, whatever, despite Minion kind of bashing it in his guide.
And while I think Minion did a great job with said guide, I also think it reflects is personal view. Mine for example is similar in some areas (I think P/P is a beast) and different in others (I also happen to think SB is really really good, when used properly). In the end it's just another opinion and precicely why you either shouldn't believe everything someone says on the internet or just step up and decide for yourself.
Of course I could just write "SB is good, just use it". But does that really help you?

#8 The Shadow

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 09:50 AM

I still think Shortbow is the best weapon we have access to.

Especially with the up and coming D/D nerfs.

P/P is great and that, but it's bloody boring.

Oh. It's worth noting however...

Condition builds kinda suck in WvW due to the mass of AOE condition removal via Guardians and Necros. Shortbow is far better than P/P in WvW purely because you can actually hit multiple foes with SB as opposed to just one, even with the auto attack. But yeah.. I wouldn't go with a condition build for that purpose. Probably wouldn't touch a condition build in any form of the game except for PvE tbh.

Also, just because people use one thing more or less does not make it better or worse. People still use S/P a lot despite it being absolutely inferior to D/D.

Edited by The Shadow, 04 November 2012 - 09:55 AM.


#9 Minion

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 10:32 AM

View PostThe Shadow, on 04 November 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:


Especially with the up and coming D/D nerfs.


Shadow; what are these malevolent nerfs of which you speak?!

@rest; It depends where you are. In structured PvE (dungeons or playing with others in general) you're doing more good using the single-target damage from your pistols and the daze/blind which someone else in your team can abuse. A lot of people keep touting "shotgunning", but that still requires you to get into melee range for maximum effect but doesn't offer an evade while casting. This makes the shortbow less appealing to me, but they are completely different, so it's best seeing what your whole team has before deciding.

#10 The Shadow

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 11:23 AM

View PostMinion, on 04 November 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

Shadow; what are these malevolent nerfs of which you speak?!

@rest; It depends where you are. In structured PvE (dungeons or playing with others in general) you're doing more good using the single-target damage from your pistols and the daze/blind which someone else in your team can abuse. A lot of people keep touting "shotgunning", but that still requires you to get into melee range for maximum effect but doesn't offer an evade while casting. This makes the shortbow less appealing to me, but they are completely different, so it's best seeing what your whole team has before deciding.

The whole CnD > Steal (Mug) > BS thing. Supposedly they are toning down the damage even further and supplementing us in some other way. Not sure what exactly. I'm sure it'll be a massive fail though. There's a thread about it somewhere, Thief PvP section mayhaps?

It does depend on your party and the dungeon as you say. In a lot of dungeons I don't think it's possible to survive without the use of Cluster + SoM. However many of them are also geared towards single-target bosses so it really does depend. I just don't like D/D and P/P in unison because;

1) Glaring lack of AoE.
2) Lack of mobility.
3) I feel it's impossible to use them both to their maximum efficiency in the way of traits. You're essentially becoming a Jack of all trades. Whereas Shortbow and D/D fit in well together when just speccing to further the potency of D/D.

As for the whole AoE versus Support thing. There is that to consider. But personally; I'd rather build towards D/D and SB. If I find myself  in need of /P be it for the daze (unlikely) or BP I would rather go D/P (still fairly good damage grace de HS through combo field) while also offering that additional support. If the situation gets too sticky (and in some situations it does), you have the SB lying there to quickly get out and potentially revive other party-members and what-have you. There are different ways of offering your team support. Staying alive to live another day via the careful use (not "Shotgunning", though there is a time for it) of the SB is one of many ways in which we can offer it, though arguably, in a more round-and-about way.

Edited by The Shadow, 04 November 2012 - 11:24 AM.


#11 hungryolred

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 08:22 PM

It seems like SB has been on my weapon set more often than any other. More of a utility weapon than anything else, but I swear most thiefs tote around sb as well. Best way to farm DE, get out trouble, extra evade, you get it.

I would go for crit over cond in wvw. I would definately bring SB because its your "oh sh@t weapon".

#12 The Shadow

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 07:46 PM

View Posthungryolred, on 04 November 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

It seems like SB has been on my weapon set more often than any other. More of a utility weapon than anything else, but I swear most thiefs tote around sb as well. Best way to farm DE, get out trouble, extra evade, you get it.

I would go for crit over cond in wvw. I would definately bring SB because its your "oh sh@t weapon".

And it's the only weapon we have that has a 1200 range skill. Only option for siege defense.




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