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Surviving while built for damage


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#1 metalsazz

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:27 PM

Is it reasonable for any kind of DPS spec to be able survive most encounters if the player know what they are doing?

I mean most pure damage builds out there right now have some degree of survivability, like thieves stealth(toughy subject) and evades, guardians block & regen abilities, even a warriors can have high damage with it's health and armour,

How do people actually feel about this? Should these builds have what it have, and when use well be able to say alive for as long as they play better than others?

Or should these build be nothing but single minded, only useful for doing it's damage, and if it fails then your pretty much dead?

From what I've been reading lately on these forum, a lot of people expect the latter.

#2 RandolfRa

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:47 AM

Quote

and when use well be able to say alive for as long as they play better than others?
No. This kind of design means that the damage build is the only logical build choice for any experienced player.

Quote

Or should these build be nothing but single minded, only useful for doing it's damage, and if it fails then your pretty much dead?
Yes. The defense of agressive build should always be offence, not tanking abilities.

Edited by RandolfRa, 01 November 2012 - 01:50 AM.


#3 MrForz

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 02:48 AM

Not alot of people are kamikaze-minded nor fan of one trick ponies, if it's about the second option I'm afraid.

#4 metalsazz

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 04:55 AM

DPS builds does not always = one trick ponies.  Even if they were consider that, most of them still offer some utility, either thro class mechanics, or weapon skills that they can do more than just spike once or twice every min. Even if thats what most people did, other option are there

Surviving also does not = tanking. It means you have ways to deal with aggression coming you way.

Would a experience defensive player really be at a disadvantage if their offensive target knew how to stay alive?
Defensive players are still able to deal damage with the skill they have, so why can't a offensive player stay alive given the limited # of abilities and the know how to use them?

Edited by metalsazz, 01 November 2012 - 04:56 AM.


#5 Scarlet_Blossom

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 10:03 AM

This game is not built around people outplaying others in ways where they can win a fight that they started with 25% hp. Obviously this does happen, but  usually the other person was just utterly terrible.

#6 MrForz

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:15 PM

View Postmetalsazz, on 01 November 2012 - 04:55 AM, said:

DPS builds does not always = one trick ponies.  Even if they were consider that, most of them still offer some utility, either thro class mechanics, or weapon skills that they can do more than just spike once or twice every min. Even if thats what most people did, other option are there

I only said that toward the second option of the OP: Single minded builds where you unleash your damage and die if failed.

#7 metalsazz

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 05:58 PM

View PostMrForz, on 01 November 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:



I only said that toward the second option of the OP: Single minded builds where you unleash your damage and die if failed.

I also mention that surviving =\= tanking, even the most hard hitting builds out there have some limited form of surviving. Is this wrong?

#8 Lilitu

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:07 PM

This is the reason thieves are very powerful. (I rerolled from warrior, as did many others).
Defensive stats only get you so far... what really matters are things like dodge, teleports, stealth, shadowsteps, invul frames such as death blossom/flanking strike. With the right abilities and the right player talent, you can go all out damage and still be a very tough target to take down.

Range is also a huge survivability tool.

#9 MrForz

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:10 PM

And it's most likely due to tools being rather more important than massive vitality / toughness stacking. Difference between a defensive spec is... a couple of hits from a glass canon.

#10 metalsazz

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 10:02 PM

So the question i keep asking is, Is it acceptable? Thieves and mesmers are usually good examples of this, Should those professions be looked down upon because of that?  Other profession have their own survival tools & mechanics, they may not be as good, but they still have them.

#11 MrForz

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 10:05 PM

Well, that's what more than 5 or 6 threads are about, so, nobody holds the answer nor the last word on it.

#12 stefanplc

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 10:35 PM

View PostLilitu, on 01 November 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

This is the reason thieves are very powerful. (I rerolled from warrior, as did many others).
Defensive stats only get you so far... what really matters are things like dodge, teleports, stealth, shadowsteps, invul frames such as death blossom/flanking strike. With the right abilities and the right player talent, you can go all out damage and still be a very tough target to take down.

Range is also a huge survivability tool.

Exactly the conclusion I came to.

#13 sagasaint

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 10:32 AM

View Postmetalsazz, on 01 November 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

So the question i keep asking is, Is it acceptable? Thieves and mesmers are usually good examples of this, Should those professions be looked down upon because of that?  Other profession have their own survival tools & mechanics, they may not be as good, but they still have them.
no other prof has as many, nor half as good built-in survival tools/mechanics as mesmers and thieves...ok, guardian, yeah
the catch is that yes, other profs DO have survival tools, but speccing for them means they lack in everything outside...well...surviving

thats the problem with both mesmers and thieves. thieves hit like trains on roids, mesmers pack a decent punch and have unbeatable, tide-changing skills, IN their "survivality" builds, and they dont have to sacrifice nothing for it.
they have absolutly no trade-off, they are the zenith of "keeping your cake and eating it too"


you wouldnt care about a bunker (ele, guardian, engi, necro) coming for you, sure you prolly wont kill him but he wont kill you in a hundred years either.
if its in WvW, just tab-target someone else
if its sPvP, /point, /dance, and go for another point while he stays there bored and earning no points.



a thief can be JUST AS tough to kill as a bunker (for different reasons, obviously), and he will drop you in 2 seconds flat, usually without you having time to react.

a mesmer wont kill you "that" fast but can be a true PITA, will survive even more than the thief, and you cannot ignore them not even 1 second or else they will do a portal that will ruin your day.

Edited by sagasaint, 02 November 2012 - 10:44 AM.





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