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Berserker's/Knight's/Valkyrie

thief armor berserkers knights valkyrie gear level 80

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#1 Al Shamari

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:59 PM

So, I'm approaching level 80 on my Thief, and I'm looking towards what stat spread I would like. I know many people make the argument that Berserker's is the best (and really the only) choice for Thieves, as our survivability remains so low regardless. But, I can see arguments being made for each of these sets.

So, how should I go for my armor set (as I plan to choose Berserker's weapons and accessories) if I want to have some ability to survive if I don't correctly time a dodge or evade, but would still like very reasonable damage outputs while running a more support geared build in such areas like high end dungeons, etc.

Just give me your arguments towards each piece, and back them up.

#2 Mortificant

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 08:13 PM

View PostAl Shamari, on 01 November 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

Berserker's is the best (and really the only) choice for Thieves

Yeah, like that

#3 Al Shamari

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 08:36 PM

Quote

Just give me your arguments towards each piece, and back them up.
Yeah, like that.

#4 The Shadow

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:02 PM

View PostAl Shamari, on 01 November 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

Yeah, like that.

Berserker is the best because you get 36% Critical Damage from Jewelry set. But much less from Armour and or Weapons.

Also the 3% Critical Damage in a jewel is by far more useful than +15 in any stat.

So.. Berserker jewelry always. If you feel squishy or something, get armor with some toughness in it. Although I'd maintain learning to dodge is by far the better option.

#5 Al Shamari

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:20 PM

View PostThe Shadow, on 01 November 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

Berserker is the best because you get 36% Critical Damage from Jewelry set. But much less from Armour and or Weapons.

Also the 3% Critical Damage in a jewel is by far more useful than +15 in any stat.

So.. Berserker jewelry always. If you feel squishy or something, get armor with some toughness in it. Although I'd maintain learning to dodge is by far the better option.
Yeah, I figure no matter my armor choices I will have Berserker weapons and Jewelry. I would consider myself reasonable at dodging and evading attacks, but not perfect. I just hate knowing that I absolutely can't mess up without dying.

#6 Lillium

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 10:17 PM

I've been using a berserker/valkyrie mix for my thief. I don't use toughness(/knight's) at all for any of my characters, unless I want healing power making the only option power/tough/healing (shaman's is worse than cleric's). Despite math slightly favoring toughness (it really is small unless you have a sizable investment to healing too), I have found in use that toughness is completely underpowered and vitality is miles more effective (unless you're a necro).
As to which pieces to mix, its just how much resilience/burst do you desire? You probably want to stick with ruby (berserker's) jewelry, but I do tend to use my earrings for any odd stats I want to give a small boost (like healing or condition dmg). I have all berserker's/rampager's weapons, except for a (valkyrie or carrion?) shortbow (more hp when you probably need it). If you do full valkyrie for your armor you'll miss a lot of precision (you'll still crit plenty anyways), but gain substantial hp. If you do valk chest/legs you'll gain a lot of hp but trade a fair bit of precision. If you do valk shoulders/gloves/boots you'll gain a little hp, and loose negligable precision.

When making mixed stat sets, remember how much stats (minus defense*) each piece contributes relative to other pieces:
weapons > chest > necklace > legs > ring > earrings > helm> shoulders/gloves/boots > back item.
This is also roughly the priority order for upgrading to exotic from w/e fine/mwk/rare gear you have too.
*Defense is great, but not going to make or break you in PvE. You will get ~40 more for upgrading to an exotic chest from a rare chest (lvl 80 gear), but you're going to get so much more from the other stats on the armor. The smaller pieces only give ~20 more, so again you're doing it more for the other stats/completion/style/etc.
In contrast, the damage value on your weapons WILL make or break you, so make obtaining any exotic(s) for your primary weapon set with at least 1 decent stat on it a priority on hitting 80. It should cost about 2g either through picking up a cheapie on the TP or purchasing mats for crafting, not hard either way.

Edited by Lillium, 01 November 2012 - 10:25 PM.


#7 ivonbeton

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 01:18 PM

View PostLillium, on 01 November 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

I've been using a berserker/valkyrie mix for my thief. I don't use toughness(/knight's) at all for any of my characters, unless I want healing power making the only option power/tough/healing (shaman's is worse than cleric's). Despite math slightly favoring toughness (it really is small unless you have a sizable investment to healing too), I have found in use that toughness is completely underpowered and vitality is miles more effective (unless you're a necro)

The reason I'm still considering more toughness, is that it actually increases the effectiveness of your healing aswell. If you heal, let's say 1k health, its way more effective when you have a nice mix between toughness and vitality.

#8 Ensign

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 03:08 PM

View PostAl Shamari, on 01 November 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

I know many people make the argument that Berserker's is the best (and really the only) choice for Thieves, as our survivability remains so low regardless. But, I can see arguments being made for each of these sets.

Thief survivability scales incredibly well with gear.  You'll reach badly misleading conclusions if you convince yourself otherwise.

The argument for Berserker's begins and ends with 'it makes the numbers the biggest.'  It's not a bad set by any means, and delivers exactly what you'd expect it to.  The main issue is the lack of any defensive stats, and the way it tends to scale with more pieces of itself makes it lose some potency when mixing and matching to get those defensive stats.  Assuming you want to avoid condition damage entirely it's still a perfectly good basis for a set.

Valkyrie is desirable for being one of the best sources of vitality for a thief.  Your base health is very low by default, which makes the first few pieces of Valkyrie armor extremely strong for shoring up that weakness.  Since it also is a high power set with critical damage, you maintain your high burst capacity as well.  The vast majority of sets (and virtually all sets skipping condition damage) would benefit from at least a couple Valkyrie pieces.

Knight's gear is nice for tanking up once you have a solid health pool.  Unfortunately, the thief's base health is pretty bad, so you'll need a good chunk of bonus vitality before you'd want to start looking at Knight's gear.  Once you're up in the 16k-18k health range, however, a piece of Knight's gear or two isn't a bad idea at all for a combat thief.  The main advantages once you're in that regime are that it maintains solid damage from having the two most important damage stats, and the lack of critical damage makes it ideal for armor pieces that do not get a good return on critical damage (since the trade-off of stats to critical damage varies from piece to piece).  Grabbing a Knight's Helm or Knight's Pants if you're building a tankier combat thief is not a bad idea at all.

As a rule of thumb, at least half your gear should be Berserker's; you'd want to replace the first few pieces with Valkyrie gear to tank yourself up a bit, and only take Knight's pieces if you've grabbed a lot of durability.

The way stats scale makes grabbing those first few defensive pieces exceptionally strong.  Since every piece of gear you're looking at has as least 2 offensive stats on it, you're going to have good offense regardless of the combination, while even token defensive boosts pay big returns.  You can, for instance, double your effective health through a combination of vitality and toughness at a cost of less than 25% of your damage output; you can similarly increase your effective health by over 50% for only 10% of your damage.  These are very efficient trade-offs and allow you to face-tank hits that you would otherwise have to dodge and recover from, making those defensive stats not only a margin for error but a net DPS boost from being able to sit and pound for longer.

#9 jwburks

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 08:59 PM

I did the math on this a few days ago. If you add up the stats from full Berserker's armor + weapons, and compare that to a full set of ruby jewelry, the set of jewelry has less stats all around. I then made a full set of exotic Berserker's armor and weapons.

Full set of Berserker's Emblazoned armor:
+16% crit damage, +315 power,  +224 precision

Add two weapons or a 2-hand weapon:
+10% crit damage, +180 power, +128 precision

for a total of:
+26% crit damage, +495 power, +352 precision

This is what you get for all 5 jewelry (ruby):
+17% crit damage, +336 power, +240 precision

The weapons + armor wins against the jewelry.

Now I am in the mud on deciding what jewelry to take. Maybe I'll make a full set of emerald for toughness, precision and power.

Edited by jwburks, 02 November 2012 - 09:02 PM.


#10 Ravnodaus

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 10:22 AM

View Postjwburks, on 02 November 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

I did the math on this a few days ago. If you add up the stats from full Berserker's armor + weapons, and compare that to a full set of ruby jewelry, the set of jewelry has less stats all around. I then made a full set of exotic Berserker's armor and weapons.

Full set of Berserker's Emblazoned armor:
+16% crit damage, +315 power,  +224 precision

Add two weapons or a 2-hand weapon:
+10% crit damage, +180 power, +128 precision

for a total of:
+26% crit damage, +495 power, +352 precision

This is what you get for all 5 jewelry (ruby):
+17% crit damage, +336 power, +240 precision

The weapons + armor wins against the jewelry.

Now I am in the mud on deciding what jewelry to take. Maybe I'll make a full set of emerald for toughness, precision and power.

Well... 2 weapons will give you that 10% crit damage, but a 2 hander will only give you 9%.

Whatever jewelry you end up deciding, putting ruby jewels in them is probably going to be your best option, as the jewels have an absurd amount of crit damage on them. (You didn't account for jewels in your "math", or you made an error.)

Edited by Ravnodaus, 04 November 2012 - 10:23 AM.


#11 IsThisNameTaken

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 10:36 AM

View Postjwburks, on 02 November 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

I did the math on this a few days ago. If you add up the stats from full Berserker's armor + weapons, and compare that to a full set of ruby jewelry, the set of jewelry has less stats all around. I then made a full set of exotic Berserker's armor and weapons.

Full set of Berserker's Emblazoned armor:
+16% crit damage, +315 power,  +224 precision

Add two weapons or a 2-hand weapon:
+10% crit damage, +180 power, +128 precision

for a total of:
+26% crit damage, +495 power, +352 precision

This is what you get for all 5 jewelry (ruby):
+17% crit damage, +336 power, +240 precision

The weapons + armor wins against the jewelry.

Now I am in the mud on deciding what jewelry to take. Maybe I'll make a full set of emerald for toughness, precision and power.

The answer doesn't seem correct for the Jewelry set:
Each Exquisite Ruby Jewel gives: 25 Power, 3% Critical Damage, 15 Precision
Amulet: 90 Power, 5% Critical Damage, 64 Precision
Ring: 67 Power, 3% Critical Damage, 48 Precision
Earring: 56 Power, 3% Critical Damage, 40 Precision

This sums up to:
461 Power, 32% Critical Damage, 315 Precision

#12 Graham_Specter

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 08:49 PM

View PostIsThisNameTaken, on 04 November 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

The answer doesn't seem correct for the Jewelry set:
Each Exquisite Ruby Jewel gives: 25 Power, 3% Critical Damage, 15 Precision
Amulet: 90 Power, 5% Critical Damage, 64 Precision
Ring: 67 Power, 3% Critical Damage, 48 Precision
Earring: 56 Power, 3% Critical Damage, 40 Precision

This sums up to:
461 Power, 32% Critical Damage, 315 Precision

Just a quick question - Is the precision boost from armor necessary for the build to work? I ask, because I'm considering going with Valkyrie armor and Berserker's everything else. I'm worried about being too squishy to compete in upper level content. However, there's that trait that converts 5% of precision to Vitality - would that help to solve the problem?

#13 IsThisNameTaken

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 07:50 AM

View PostGraham_Specter, on 04 November 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

Just a quick question - Is the precision boost from armor necessary for the build to work? I ask, because I'm considering going with Valkyrie armor and Berserker's everything else. I'm worried about being too squishy to compete in upper level content. However, there's that trait that converts 5% of precision to Vitality - would that help to solve the problem?

I don't play a Thief, so I can't help you there :)

I only responded because I saw a possible calculation error.

#14 NachyoChez

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 09:52 AM

My thief is ridiculously low level, but seeing the armor comparisons I've got to ask:

What about Zerk Trinkets/upgrades and Soldier's armor(Tough/Vit/Power)?

#15 Graham_Specter

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:36 PM

View PostNachyoChez, on 05 November 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

My thief is ridiculously low level, but seeing the armor comparisons I've got to ask:

What about Zerk Trinkets/upgrades and Soldier's armor(Tough/Vit/Power)?

There's actually no PvE equivalent to the Soldier's set - There are crests, but they mostly serve to act as gems.

#16 Fenice_86

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:50 PM

what about a mix of 3/3 Knight + Valk armor and full Zerk weapons + jewelrly?
(valk on bigger pieces and knight on smaller ones)

#17 Graham_Specter

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:07 PM

View PostFenice_86, on 05 November 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

what about a mix of 3/3 Knight + Valk armor and full Zerk weapons + jewelrly?
(valk on bigger pieces and knight on smaller ones)

I think someone recommended that earlier, actually. Look at the post by Ensign - he mentions having half zerk gear (jewels and weapons) and then getting Valkyrie on pieces like the chest, with Knight helms and pants.

A question for anyone out there - is the Backstab build really - that - glassy at higher levels? Especially since 10 points into Shadow Arts (And thus 100 toughness) is recommended?

#18 BabelFish

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:14 PM

View PostGraham_Specter, on 05 November 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

I think someone recommended that earlier, actually. Look at the post by Ensign - he mentions having half zerk gear (jewels and weapons) and then getting Valkyrie on pieces like the chest, with Knight helms and pants.

A question for anyone out there - is the Backstab build really - that - glassy at higher levels? Especially since 10 points into Shadow Arts (And thus 100 toughness) is recommended?
zerk weapons with valk and knight gear is pretty solid. I accomplish the same thing by using karma armor to focus on power, toughness and vit. BS builds are super glassy at high levels. I'd go as far as to say they aren't even good in dungeons...to the point where people may kick you from the party.


#19 NachyoChez

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 06:47 PM

View PostGraham_Specter, on 05 November 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

There's actually no PvE equivalent to the Soldier's set - There are crests, but they mostly serve to act as gems.
Sure there is; 45k vendors in Orr.  You can build an entire set (aside from pants in this instance)
Arcon Head, Shoulders, Chest, and Boots w/ Mortal Gloves.  There are a few other choices for the gloves, but you get the idea!

Would these be worth investing in for a thief?

#20 Ensign

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 08:50 PM

I'm a fan of the Power/Toughness/Vitality gear, though I can see how it isn't immediately obvious that it's good.  Precision and Vitality are basically interchangeable since you can always swap Berserker's pieces for Valkyrie pieces or vice-versa.  If you pair pieces off, a piece of Berserker's and a piece of Soldier's gear is very similar to a piece of Valkyrie and a piece of Knight's.  Adjusting for the scaling of the minor stats, the Berserker/Soldier pair gives [2x Power, 0.7x Precision, 0.7x Toughness, 0.7x Vitality, 0.7x Prowess] while the Valkyrie/Knight's pair gives [1.7x Power, 0.7x Precision, 1x Toughness, 0.7x Vitality, 0.7x Prowess].  They're similar combinations, and I prefer the former for keeping your Power up (since you're really converting Prowess into Toughness with Soldier's).

The other advantage of Soldier's gear is that it's a lot more compact.  Instead of swapping out two pieces of Berserker gear for one piece of Knight's and one piece of Valkyrie, you swap out only one piece for a Soldier's piece and get the same effect.  This makes it a lot easier to swap gear in and out situationally, since you only need to carry, and swap, half the pieces when you want to bulk up a bit.

#21 shadowstorme1122

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 06:44 AM

Hello,
Guys do you think if i convert my entire armor set to a full valkyrie set it would be more beneficial overall as compared to my current.

Reason for changing my current.
1.  I tried making my thief more durable but i think theif aren't made to take hits.  Even with my below stats  i still can't take hits as compared to a guardian or a warrior.

Current Stats
HP = 15890
Toughness = 1470
Power = 3100
Crit Chance = 50%
Crit Damage = 68%
Healing bonus = 60

Im using SoM, Assasin's Reward and Dual Blood on my S/P combo

2. With the changes here are my stats going to look like
TOTAL
Power = 315
Crit Damage = +12%
Vit = +48
Precision = -48
Toughness = -176

3.  I feel with the valkyrie gear change i can boost my damage more since i feel toughness is not really worth it for a thief.

4. My accessories are in emeralds aswell, i plan on changing them to full valkyrie and gemming it with power prec crit damage, i know i'll be loosing alot of precision with this changes im guessing after all the changes my crit chance might drop to 40% range but crit damage will shoot up to over a 100%.. i think there no other accessories that provide high precision as compared to emerald.



Hoping to hear some comments

Thanks
===============================================
For Comparison Purposes.
CURRENT

BOOTS
34 power
24 toughness
24 vit

CHEST
101 power
72 toughness
72 vit

HEAD
45 power
32 toughness
32 vit

PANTS
67 power
48 toughness
48 vit

SHOULDERS
34 power
24 precision
2% crit damage

GLOVES
34 power
24 precision
2% crit damage

TOTAL
Power = 315
Crit Damage = 4%
Vit = 176
Precision = 48
Toughness = 176
_______________________

VALKYRIE

BOOTS
34 power
2% crit damage
24 vit

CHEST
101 power
5% crit damage
72 vit

GLOVES
34 power
2% crit damage
24 vit

HEAD
45 power
2% crit damage
32 vit

PANTS
67 power
3% crit damage
48 vit

SHOULDERS
34 power
2% crit damage
24 vit

TOTAL
Power = 315
Crit Damage = 16%
Vit = 224
Precision = 0

Edited by shadowstorme1122, 06 November 2012 - 06:45 AM.


#22 Elr3d

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 01:47 PM

You don't want to think Berserker is the only Thief-appropriate gear.

I run a combination of Knight/Valkyrie armor with a combination of Knight/Berserk/Valkyrie jewels and running a bulky stealth might-stacking support thief (it does everything!) that works very well both in PvE and PvP. I have 15k hp, 2k5 attack (without might buffs) and 2k5 armor and as such I am very "balanced", or rather very "tanky" for Thief standards.

I've yet to be OS by anything else than champions or legendaries from dungeons. I usually win most 1v1 I come accross in WvWvW, sometimes win even when outnumbered and I am able to run away reliably anyway. Burst Thieves are mostly a joke if they don't catch me unaware or with my stealth skills on cooldown.

For your armor choice at 80 I'd say it depends mostly on your build, weapon setup and how at ease you are with avoiding hits. And then you can deduct how bulky you want to be. Just beware with crit chance because it eats up tons of stats you could better use instead. I'd rather have a 50 toughness to replace an extra 3% crit damage that won't affect my DPS that much to be able to take maybe one or two more hits.

#23 shadowstorme1122

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 01:58 AM

View PostElr3d, on 06 November 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

You don't want to think Berserker is the only Thief-appropriate gear.

I run a combination of Knight/Valkyrie armor with a combination of Knight/Berserk/Valkyrie jewels and running a bulky stealth might-stacking support thief (it does everything!) that works very well both in PvE and PvP. I have 15k hp, 2k5 attack (without might buffs) and 2k5 armor and as such I am very "balanced", or rather very "tanky" for Thief standards.

I've yet to be OS by anything else than champions or legendaries from dungeons. I usually win most 1v1 I come accross in WvWvW, sometimes win even when outnumbered and I am able to run away reliably anyway. Burst Thieves are mostly a joke if they don't catch me unaware or with my stealth skills on cooldown.

For your armor choice at 80 I'd say it depends mostly on your build, weapon setup and how at ease you are with avoiding hits. And then you can deduct how bulky you want to be. Just beware with crit chance because it eats up tons of stats you could better use instead. I'd rather have a 50 toughness to replace an extra 3% crit damage that won't affect my DPS that much to be able to take maybe one or two more hits.

I don't know what your stats are but based on my testing dungeon runs, toughness is subpar stat for thief atleast look at my stats above and when i tried running zero toughness but replaced it with more vit i was able to live longer as compared to my previous gear setup.  In terms of dps i don't know if i lost or gain bec i lost 8% crit chance but gained 20% crit damage

I still need to test this more and run more dungeons i ran CoE last night, before with my stats i was getting 1 hit KO with the 1st mob which casts ice on floor but now having zero toughness and more hp i could live through it.. strangely enough even i was shocked giving up 1470 and gaining 2k hp was better very very strange... maybe its just for thief not for other class.

Edited by shadowstorme1122, 07 November 2012 - 01:58 AM.


#24 Jiminy

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 06:45 AM

View PostNachyoChez, on 05 November 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

Sure there is; 45k vendors in Orr.  You can build an entire set (aside from pants in this instance)
Arcon Head, Shoulders, Chest, and Boots w/ Mortal Gloves.  There are a few other choices for the gloves, but you get the idea!

Would these be worth investing in for a thief?

The dungeon armor set from AC also falls in the 'Soldier' armor category. This is how I've kitted my thief out. All AC armor and all Berserkers trinkets/weapons. It works well for me, and I am nowhere near as squishy as running no T/V gear.

The only decision I have to make is what upgrades do I put into my armor. Rune of the Dolyak or Crest of the Soldier?

#25 shadowstorme1122

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 07:05 AM

View PostJiminy, on 07 November 2012 - 06:45 AM, said:

The dungeon armor set from AC also falls in the 'Soldier' armor category. This is how I've kitted my thief out. All AC armor and all Berserkers trinkets/weapons. It works well for me, and I am nowhere near as squishy as running no T/V gear.

The only decision I have to make is what upgrades do I put into my armor. Rune of the Dolyak or Crest of the Soldier?

We almost have the same gear but based on my run last night going for a full valkyrie is much better in terms of survivability.  I feel toughness is a sub par stat as compared to vit for thief.  I know AC or HoTW gears offer pwr toughness and vit.. but i would rather see big numbers over getting the toughness stat

Edited by shadowstorme1122, 07 November 2012 - 07:07 AM.


#26 Al Shamari

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 07:28 AM

View Postshadowstorme1122, on 07 November 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

We almost have the same gear but based on my run last night going for a full valkyrie is much better in terms of survivability.  I feel toughness is a sub par stat as compared to vit for thief.  I know AC or HoTW gears offer pwr toughness and vit.. but i would rather see big numbers over getting the toughness stat
Just curious, have you field tested both?

I'm beginning to lean against Berserker's so I'm looking for an alternative. My initial thought was also to run full Valkyrie's and then Berserker's weapons and trinkets. But, after scanning this thread the "Soldier's" armor does gain some steam.

#27 shadowstorme1122

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:30 AM

View PostAl Shamari, on 07 November 2012 - 07:28 AM, said:

Just curious, have you field tested both?

I'm beginning to lean against Berserker's so I'm looking for an alternative. My initial thought was also to run full Valkyrie's and then Berserker's weapons and trinkets. But, after scanning this thread the "Soldier's" armor does gain some steam.

Hello,
Like what ive said ive only ran CoE path 2-3 with my full valkyrie armor and accessory berserker i was able to stay alive long enough than before in terms of damage i don't know anet should really put up a dps meter.  I will test it more in other dungeons but initial tests are doing great for a full valkyrie armor as compared to splitting between savnir, knight and berserker.  Check out my stats above, even i was shocked bec theoretically having toughness + vit will provide more survivability expect for condition damage.

1470 toughness vs +1500-2000 hp, i was able to live longer and take hits in the sense i don't get 1 shoted.  I think toughness will be factor on AC or CoF during the mounds part, as before when i was in full berserker vs my hybrid gear i can really feel the difference that i don't get in a downed state as compared to a full zerker gear.

I have no idea if spells or magic damage can be negated by toughness or armor.. wiki didn't say that there are magic damage but only stated direct damage.  Im guessing the 1470 toughness is not enough vs my hp pool, maybe if you go full savnir + knight so you can max your survivability but isn't it a bit weird form a "assumption point of view" that theif is really built for damage and not to take hits.  Again DPS meter where are you....

I really feel DPS meter will be very very beneficial in character customization.

I will still test it out more on dragon events & dungeon runs.

Wiki Info
Posted Image Damage is any effect from an action which results in a target losing health. Damage is considered to be one of the three facets the Guild Wars 2 combat system is built around, the others being support and control. All professions are able to deal damage in a useful way, mostly by using skills.
There are three types of damage in Guild Wars 2:
  • Direct damage. This damage is inflicted by skills and/or traits directly, can crit, and is mitigated by the target's armor.
  • Condition damage. This damage is inflicted primarily by conditions, does not crit and is not mitigated by the target's armor.
  • Falling damage. This damage is taken from falling. When taken below zero health by falling damage, the player does not enter a downed state but instead dies immediately. Falling damage scales with height fallen and is not mitigated by armor or any skills that reduce or prevent damage.
Toughness is a defensive character attribute. Each attribute point put into toughness increases the armor of the character by one, which improves the character's ability to withstand direct damage. Toughness has no effect on falling damage.

Edited by shadowstorme1122, 07 November 2012 - 09:36 AM.


#28 Elr3d

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 02:21 PM

View Postshadowstorme1122, on 07 November 2012 - 01:58 AM, said:

I don't know what your stats are but based on my testing dungeon runs, toughness is subpar stat for thief atleast look at my stats above and when i tried running zero toughness but replaced it with more vit i was able to live longer as compared to my previous gear setup.  In terms of dps i don't know if i lost or gain bec i lost 8% crit chance but gained 20% crit damage

I still need to test this more and run more dungeons i ran CoE last night, before with my stats i was getting 1 hit KO with the 1st mob which casts ice on floor but now having zero toughness and more hp i could live through it.. strangely enough even i was shocked giving up 1470 and gaining 2k hp was better very very strange... maybe its just for thief not for other class.

My stats are:
1600ish Power
1400ish Precision
1600ish Toughness
1400ish Vitality

May be wrong on the exact numbers, will have to check it back. However I'm pretty sure I'm mostly at 2k7 attack and 2k7 armor, 15k hp with a ~33% crit chance. My damage come from might stacking via stealthing.

I guess the Toughness/Vitality preference depends on playstyle. As a stealthy Thief I prefer to be able to withstand a few hits. I use the same build in WvWvW and Dungeon and don't have any problem in either. CoE is not a problem, apart from the Champion Icebrood wolf at the beginning that almost OS me without warning (leave me with like 1k hp). And of course Alpha's AoE are often lethal (~10k on a tooth hit and same from the earth one) but everyone dies in it and it's rather easy to avoid...

Edited by Elr3d, 07 November 2012 - 02:21 PM.


#29 Al Shamari

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 06:30 PM

View Postshadowstorme1122, on 07 November 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

Hello,
Like what ive said ive only ran CoE path 2-3 with my full valkyrie armor and accessory berserker i was able to stay alive long enough than before in terms of damage i don't know anet should really put up a dps meter.  I will test it more in other dungeons but initial tests are doing great for a full valkyrie armor as compared to splitting between savnir, knight and berserker.  Check out my stats above, even i was shocked bec theoretically having toughness + vit will provide more survivability expect for condition damage.

1470 toughness vs +1500-2000 hp, i was able to live longer and take hits in the sense i don't get 1 shoted.  I think toughness will be factor on AC or CoF during the mounds part, as before when i was in full berserker vs my hybrid gear i can really feel the difference that i don't get in a downed state as compared to a full zerker gear.

I have no idea if spells or magic damage can be negated by toughness or armor.. wiki didn't say that there are magic damage but only stated direct damage.  Im guessing the 1470 toughness is not enough vs my hp pool, maybe if you go full savnir + knight so you can max your survivability but isn't it a bit weird form a "assumption point of view" that theif is really built for damage and not to take hits.  Again DPS meter where are you....

I really feel DPS meter will be very very beneficial in character customization.

I will still test it out more on dragon events & dungeon runs.

Wiki Info
Posted Image Damage is any effect from an action which results in a target losing health. Damage is considered to be one of the three facets the Guild Wars 2 combat system is built around, the others being support and control. All professions are able to deal damage in a useful way, mostly by using skills.
There are three types of damage in Guild Wars 2:
  • Direct damage. This damage is inflicted by skills and/or traits directly, can crit, and is mitigated by the target's armor.
  • Condition damage. This damage is inflicted primarily by conditions, does not crit and is not mitigated by the target's armor.
  • Falling damage. This damage is taken from falling. When taken below zero health by falling damage, the player does not enter a downed state but instead dies immediately. Falling damage scales with height fallen and is not mitigated by armor or any skills that reduce or prevent damage.
Toughness is a defensive character attribute. Each attribute point put into toughness increases the armor of the character by one, which improves the character's ability to withstand direct damage. Toughness has no effect on falling damage.

I have yet to read everything you wrote fully, but a DPS meter wouldn't benefit the game because it would lead to professions outweighing each other and a lot more complaints based purely on DPS.

Edited by Al Shamari, 07 November 2012 - 06:30 PM.


#30 Red_Falcon

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:26 PM

Knight's armor, zerk everything else, ruby orbs, crit sigils.
Never regretted a bit, I'm actually very fond of this setup.

PS: Toughness from Knight's armor is about 30% damage reduction btw.
You lose 16% crit dmg, no big deal, I believe I'm still sitting on 230% crit damage.

Edited by Red_Falcon, 07 November 2012 - 11:27 PM.






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: thief, armor, berserkers, knights, valkyrie, gear, level 80

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