271 replies to this topic

[DOSGAMES]

omar316, on 09 November 2012 - 02:26 AM, said:

To summarise what I meant, I'd like to use this post so I demonstrate I am not the only person who feels the same way.



Just becasue you feel that my post does not contain anything of your liking does not mean that my post has got no substance.
If I were to tell you your post has got no substance except to substantiate your own liking of the game then your post holds no significance except to... GASP!... be a blind fanboy who defends each and every negative comment.

Instead of trying to find faults on what each negative post has missed, you could possibly be intelligent enough to substantiate your own statements into saying: No, that is not the case, you could look at it this way.

Again, I know I'm knocking on wood here, but hell, you do seem quite composed and willing to start an intelligent debate.

I'll just take solace in the fact that I tried. Someday we'll have a good debate. But first I'll have to ascend the Tower of Babel. Until then, good day sir.

Edited by DOSGAMES, 09 November 2012 - 03:28 AM.

[actionjack]

Quote

...gets harder the further you get in...

I can relate to that.....

Anyhow.. sounds good.  Yes, do hope to see some more creativity in dungeon design, especially the strategy/combat/action layer.  More dodging and moving, as well as more timing (for interruption and such).

[omar316]

Red_Falcon, on 09 November 2012 - 02:50 AM, said:

Well Omar, the problem is you say chocolate sucks because you don't personally like it.
It doesn't really work that way with tastes in storytelling either.
Just because I hate a movie it doesn't mean it sucks, I'm no dictator of tastes nor are you.

Again what is up with people and their tracked thinking.

Transformers 3 was a mediocre movie. But that does not mean the action scenes and the CG was mediocre. In fact it was better than great. Though the excellent CG and actions scenes do not do enough to carry the movie.

Same thing with Avatar, same thing with Cowboys and Aliens.

Why can't I have a Batman here?
And since I voiced out my own opinion I am a certified critique now? Oh wait, you said I aren't. Move along fanboy.

[Featherman]

^Perhaps you should be as specific with the game as you are with those movies?

On Topic: I think the lack of difficutly comes form the fact that players are never really required to make full use of their arsenal and this cascades into balance issues with classes. For instance one of the things that has many Mesmers complaining is that they hit like wet noodle. This is because their class is designed around interrupts and control and giving them high dps would make them even more faceroll in PvP, but since PvE does not in the least bit require interrupting or control the Mesmer's value is evaluated by their poor DPS, situational reflects and lackluster boon support. If this dungeon rewards players that make full use of their class' defining abilities then I think it's taking PvE difficulty in the right direction.

Edited by Featherman, 09 November 2012 - 07:05 AM.

[Arquenya]

Perm Shadow Form, on 08 November 2012 - 08:20 AM, said:

I dont think that most of the players really care about the story of the zone they're in. Same goes for Hearts and DEs, MMO players generally dont care much about lore.

Well on the other hand, it can be presented in a more or less appealing and logical manner.
I mean:

Spoiler

As a human, you start off being the Hero of Shaemoor! After which your first quests require you to asisist farmers, feed the cows, pick apples. Not very heroic?
Then you get your storyline quests. You do some local work and unveil some conspiracy and do some some unrelated things that have to do with your past.

Then it seems that the race's leaders very childishly quarrel over "old" matters (while they all look like they're ~30 years old) which prevents them form fighting the dragons. Which is extremely hard to believe. Then out of nowhere there's the orders and some boring and ugly bookwurm called Trahearne and cooperating suddenly isn't a problem anymore and the Dragon gets beaten - while at the same time the race's leaders mysteriously disappear out of the story , only to re-appear in the dungeon storylines where they still hold the same grudges.

What??

Sorry to say but the GW: Porphecies storyline was a bit more compelling and made more sense.

Edited by Arquenya, 09 November 2012 - 02:50 PM.

[Miragee]

Arquenya, on 09 November 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

Well on the other hand, it van be presented in a more or less appealing and logical manner.
I mean:

Spoiler

As a human, you start off being the Hero of Shaemoor! After which your first quests require you to asisist farmers, feed the cows, pick apples. Not very heroic?
Then you get your storyline quests. You do some local work and unveil some conspiracy and do some some unrelated things that have to do with your past.

Then it seems that the race's leaders very childishly quarrel over "old" matters (while they all look like they're ~30 years old) which prevents them form fighting the dragons. Which is extremely hard to believe. Then out of nowhere there's the orders and some boring and ugly bookwurm called Trahearne and cooperating suddenly isn't a problem anymore.

What??

Sorry to say but the GW: Porphecies storyline was a bit more compelling and made more sense.

This, so much. It's right that MMO-players don't really care much about story and lore in most cases. But there a lot of poeple who care. The story in gw2 is very weak for most parts and the heart quests are mostly boring and weak in their story. GW1 wasn't a real MMO so it didn't have problems with lore either. Looking at the story of GW1 and a lot of quests in certain areas than you will see that there is a lot of interesting lore. It's like GW1 finding out about a part of the life of an old civillsation by helping a ghost in the crystal desert where you would milk cows and cath chickens 20 times in a row and get the story of a farmer that has to much work. That it is imho the right comparison about the depth of quests in GW1 and 2.

[Perm Shadow Form]

Miragee, on 09 November 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

This, so much. It's right that MMO-players don't really care much about story and lore in most cases. But there a lot of poeple who care. The story in gw2 is very weak for most parts and the heart quests are mostly boring and weak in their story. GW1 wasn't a real MMO so it didn't have problems with lore either. Looking at the story of GW1 and a lot of quests in certain areas than you will see that there is a lot of interesting lore. It's like GW1 finding out about a part of the life of an old civillsation by helping a ghost in the crystal desert where you would milk cows and cath chickens 20 times in a row and get the story of a farmer that has to much work. That it is imho the right comparison about the depth of quests in GW1 and 2.

Nice comparison, not far from the truth.

[RedStar]

Miragee, on 09 November 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

This, so much. It's right that MMO-players don't really care much about story and lore in most cases. But there a lot of poeple who care. The story in gw2 is very weak for most parts and the heart quests are mostly boring and weak in their story. GW1 wasn't a real MMO so it didn't have problems with lore either. Looking at the story of GW1 and a lot of quests in certain areas than you will see that there is a lot of interesting lore. It's like GW1 finding out about a part of the life of an old civillsation by helping a ghost in the crystal desert where you would milk cows and cath chickens 20 times in a row and get the story of a farmer that has to much work. That it is imho the right comparison about the depth of quests in GW1 and 2.

That's the big difference between hearts and quests.
Hearts are limited to kill something/gather an object. Under "gather an object" you can also place : motivate workers, repair objects, anything that is basically "go press F near that".
And because those things are supposed to be repeated a lot of time in order to finish the heart, it's generally something that doesn't make the player feel like a hero...Yay I motivated a worker and used a grenade to destroy a tree stump.
I'm not saying that this means that hearts are boring, because I had quite a good laugh with some of them. Whack-a-Dredge is funny but that doesn't make anyone feel like a mighty hero.

And hearts generally only give you general lore information that could be deduced by anyone.

With quests however you had those unique boss encounter, or find that unique item. And those quests were filled with lore.
You can find those objectives in DEs, but once again you won't find that uniqueness that quests had because it wouldn't make any sense to defeat the all mighty centaur leader if 10 minutes later he's back. You can only stop them for a while.
They give some tidbits of lore, but in the end if you want to know about the past or secrets you have to talk to NPCs.

Or do dungeons. But even then, a lot of the time the NPC takes all the credit... Because in GW2 your character isn't special. In GW1 you were a chosen, in GW2 you are a random character with normal problems that appeared in the right place at the right time. Except for Sylvari...because ANet made it their duty to have Sylvari feel that they were the saviors of Tyria.

Arquenya, on 09 November 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

Spoiler

Then it seems that the race's leaders very childishly quarrel over "old" matters (while they all look like they're ~30 years old) which prevents them form fighting the dragons. Which is extremely hard to believe. Then out of nowhere there's the orders and some boring and ugly bookwurm called Trahearne and cooperating suddenly isn't a problem anymore and the Dragon gets beaten - while at the same time the race's leaders mysteriously disappear out of the story , only to re-appear in the dungeon storylines where they still hold the same grudges.

What??

Spoiler

You are a group of friends. You all prepare to fight a huge threat to the world. At the last minute of you decides to run away to "save" the love of his life. Because of that they didn't manage to defeat the threat and one of them died. It would have been surprising if they still got along after that with no grudges whatsoever.

But because they have work to do, those that aren't angry at the others try to reconcile everyone.

The dungeons were meant to be played along the storyline. But Anet didn't want players to whine that they had to complete dungeons in order to progress in their storyline.

[Red_Falcon]

omar316, on 09 November 2012 - 06:20 AM, said:

Again what is up with people and their tracked thinking.

Transformers 3 was a mediocre movie. But that does not mean the action scenes and the CG was mediocre. In fact it was better than great. Though the excellent CG and actions scenes do not do enough to carry the movie.

Same thing with Avatar, same thing with Cowboys and Aliens.

Why can't I have a Batman here?
And since I voiced out my own opinion I am a certified critique now? Oh wait, you said I aren't. Move along fanboy.

I'm not sure what's your problem with understanding the difference from YOUR OPINION and an objective fact.
Millions of people find Transformer 3 and Avatar great movies, just because YOU find them mediocre it doesn't make it a fact.
Same for GW2.
If you think your opinion on a subject is automatically a standard objective fact for everyone in the world you're mentally insane and have a bad, alienating god complex.
Reality check, no one gives a shit of what the average singapore fat slob thinks about movies; people barely know where singapore is at all, and looking at you all they think is "does he have mould in between those rolls?", they don't certainly kneel to you as the second coming of jesus.

[karekiz]

New endgame dungeon:
1. Bugged in some way
2. Older dungeon bugs ignored
3. Dungeon loot revision being pushed back because they "have to get it right!".

[Sheepski]

I've heard rumours floating about that the press were told yesterday about this update, and that they were given information, specifically regarding a new tier of gear, above exotics.

Now without getting into an argument over whether that would be a good thing or not, as there's arguments for both sides, I'm wondering whether it's actually likely to be true or not? Especially given A-net's previous stance and philosophy and precedents set from Gw1, but also the changes they've made in the Gw2 systems/design choices.

[karekiz]

Sheepski, on 09 November 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

I've heard rumours floating about that the press were told yesterday about this update, and that they were given information, specifically regarding a new tier of gear, above exotics.

As long as it isn't better stats I would be 100% ok with "legendary" gear.  Even if it was 100% RNG like treadmill games.

Or if they really wanted to go a little bit more add a suggestion that was listed in GW2 forums:
All legendaries have the unique ability to swap stats - so you can have it go from P/T/V to P/P/Crit dmg out of combat.  Nothing game breaking, but unique enough to make them fun.

[omar316]

Red_Falcon, on 09 November 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

I'm not sure what's your problem with understanding the difference from YOUR OPINION and an objective fact.
Millions of people find Transformer 3 and Avatar great movies, just because YOU find them mediocre it doesn't make it a fact.
Same for GW2.
If you think your opinion on a subject is automatically a standard objective fact for everyone in the world you're mentally insane and have a bad, alienating god complex.
Reality check, no one gives a shit of what the average singapore fat slob thinks about movies; people barely know where singapore is at all, and looking at you all they think is "does he have mould in between those rolls?", they don't certainly kneel to you as the second coming of jesus.

+1 entertainment value.
You just repeated what I said if you hadn't realised it yet.
But it seems that you think it matters what I think and in your view I can't voice out my opinion.
Lol. I am pretty honoured you think I am the next messiah and my word is absolute, unfortunately it doesn't.
What's next? I'm your jesus, what do you want me to be next?

Come at me fanboy.

[Featherman]

^Save PvP for the actual game, please?

New tiers are doubtful...unless they're like legendaries which are technically higher tier than exotics but have the same stats. It'd be too much trouble to balance, and they already have a solid system in place. I certainly wouldn't a set for prestige. There's also the possibility of different stat combinations like Power/Precison/Vit, and possibly all stat armor/weapons akin to the Triforge Pendant.

Rumors should be treated as rumors, however. *Removes Tinfoil Hat*

Edited by Featherman, 09 November 2012 - 06:30 PM.

[Sheepski]

Featherman, on 09 November 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

^Save PvP for the actual game, please?

New tiers are doubtful...unless they're like legendaries which are technically higher tier than exotics but have the same stats. It'd be too much trouble to balance, and they already have a solid system in place. I certainly wouldn't a set for prestige. There's also the possibility of different stat combinations like Power/Precison/Vit, and possibly all stat armor/weapons akin to the Triforge Pendant.

Rumors should be treated as rumors, however. *Removes Tinfoil Hat*

Personally I'd hope for no more tiers also, the current exotic sets (dungeon, orr, crafted etc) should still be max stats even in 3 expansions time imo, the same as gw1. I wouldn't mind a higher tier if it meant purely prestige sure, such as legendaries are.

I know rumours shouldn't be treated as trustworthy, but I have reason to believe this person, rather than it being just someone random in LA

[Red_Falcon]

omar316, on 09 November 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

+1 entertainment value.
You just repeated what I said if you hadn't realised it yet.
But it seems that you think it matters what I think and in your view I can't voice out my opinion.
Lol. I am pretty honoured you think I am the next messiah and my word is absolute, unfortunately it doesn't.
What's next? I'm your jesus, what do you want me to be next?

Come at me fanboy.

You can voice your opinion, what you can't do (without being laughed at by everyone, that is) is stating your opinion is a standard for everyone.
Just because you don't like vagina it doesn't mean no one does.

[Aetou]

Legendary(esque) Armor would be cool - hard to get, visually impressive but identical in performance to exotics.  A new tier of gear to grind out on every character to be competitive in WvW? Not so cool.

[DOSGAMES]

The latest Guildcast touched on the possibility of linear progression.  Though, I don't want it to become like WoW, where everything is gated. People spend months grinding out small incremental upgrades only to have them replaced when the next gate unlocks.

But, Guild Wars 1 still had linear progression in a way. It wasn't revolved around gear but skill unlocks. I spent countless hours finding and capping skills so I could run any and every build. The grind was getting decked our heros with all the skills.  It took maybe 100 hours to beat all of the campaigns, but many more to run Discord-Way with heros with best in slot gear. These things were often needed in order to get most of the titles. So the grind was there but, it was just a different way of going about it.

I think if they wanted to add linear progression in Guild Wars 2 they should do it by adding special Sigils, Runes, Skins, Titles, Armor skins, and weapon skins.

They already have the Sigils that do +damage to enemy type and potions that grant defense and increased damage to enemy type.  Perhaps in this dungeon, guild would have to grind out early parts of the dungeon to get armor, runes, sigils, or recipes that will aid them in progressing deeper.

Also, I think it'd be cool if they added reputation based PvE skills. Similar to the Lightbringer skills in Nightfall.

I have no problem with a grind. Guild Wars 2 already has one but, it's really just a gold/materials grind to get a legendary  Adding reputation or dungeon specifc grinds would encourage those MMO players that want/need linear progression.

Edited by DOSGAMES, 10 November 2012 - 12:53 AM.

[Grumpdogg]

Sounds like a raid instance to me

[Ritualist]

DOSGAMES, on 10 November 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

The latest Guildcast touched on the possibility of linear progression.  Though, I don't want it to become like WoW, where everything is gated. People spend months grinding out small incremental upgrades only to have them replaced when the next gate unlocks.

But, Guild Wars 1 still had linear progression in a way. It wasn't revolved around gear but skill unlocks. I spent countless hours finding and capping skills so I could run any and every build. The grind was getting decked our heros with all the skills.  It took maybe 100 hours to beat all of the campaigns, but many more to run Discord-Way with heros with best in slot gear. These things were often needed in order to get most of the titles. So the grind was there but, it was just a different way of going about it.

I think if they wanted to add linear progression in Guild Wars 2 they should do it by adding special Sigils, Runes, Skins, Titles, Armor skins, and weapon skins.

They already have the Sigils that do +damage to enemy type and potions that grant defense and increased damage to enemy type.  Perhaps in this dungeon, guild would have to grind out early parts of the dungeon to get armor, runes, sigils, or recipes that will aid them in progressing deeper.

Also, I think it'd be cool if they added reputation based PvE skills. Similar to the Lightbringer skills in Nightfall.

I have no problem with a grind. Guild Wars 2 already has one but, it's really just a gold/materials grind to get a legendary  Adding reputation or dungeon specifc grinds would encourage those MMO players that want/need linear progression.

Honestly, something like this would be amazing because I think we are slowly running out of new things to bitch about. So something that goes against their core philosophy would keep these forums exploding for days, weeks even!
Be still my beating heart!

[Sheepski]

Protoss, on 10 November 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

Honestly, something like this would be amazing because I think we are slowly running out of new things to bitch about. So something that goes against their core philosophy would keep these forums exploding for days, weeks even!
Be still my beating heart!

Lol I'm sure that'd be a dream for you

But really if they did go against their core philosophy it'd lose them a lot more loyalty and player base than they will have lost from people expected some gear treadmill.

[Arngrim Einheri]

I think I heard somewhere that they were not going to introduce "elite armors" like in GW1 for now. Anyways I would love if they did.

[Lordkrall]

Technically they already have. With the dungeon armors.

[DOSGAMES]

Sheepski, on 10 November 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

Lol I'm sure that'd be a dream for you

But really if they did go against their core philosophy it'd lose them a lot more loyalty and player base than they will have lost from people expected some gear treadmill.

I think that's debatable. Anet's promise of no linear progression was a vague sales pitch, not an underlying philosophy  They said the same stuff about Guild Wars 1. (Remember all the "No grind" rhetoric?) Well, there was plenty of grind in Guild Wars. (Tyrian Explorer/Vanquisher was the most excruciating 2 months of my life.)

Based on the fluffy stuff Anet talked about pre-release, they wanted a game where you just go out and do your thing and adventure. It was almost like Anet wanted to make "Shenmue" and thank god they didn't.


You still level, you still steadily get better gear. The linear progression is there, all Anet needs to do is continue on that. (In fact all these people are complaining about nothing to do at 80 because that's when most of the linear progression ends)


People say they don't want a grind or linear progression and these same people are crying fowl that there is no "end-game".  Weather Anet wants to gravitate back to middle or not, I think sales will force their hand.  Now, I'm not saying Guild Wars 2 needs to have WoW raid progression but, having a steady improvement in a guilds ability to clear a dungeon helps add playtime and value. I don't think a mechanic like Nightfall's "Lightbringer" would violate Anet's philosophy and something like this would add linear progression.

The problem with dungeons currently are they are the same experience every time  My guildies and I clear them the first time we try them, maybe after a couple runs we find some skippable mobs and short cuts. But after a while, there's no reason to go there besides badges and some easy Silver.

It's important to note that I wouldn't want this progression to last outside the dungeon itself. Like the "Lightbringer" title, killing Tormented stuff made you better and killing Tormented stuff, but it didn't persist outside the Domain of Anguish. Most people are against linear progression because it forces them to invest time just to say ahead. If it was dungeon specific, you may take a 2 month break, miss out on the latest dungeon, but you won't feel completely gimped. And the new dungeon would start and you can be on the same playing field as others.

This new dungeon is supposed to have Leaderboards and this might be a carrot for some people. Maybe that's all it will take. But, I wouldn't be surprised if Anet starts backing off on some of their initial design promises. If it's for the better of the game. I'm cool with that.

Edited by DOSGAMES, 10 November 2012 - 12:50 PM.

[Miku Flarestorm]

A timed dungeon with acid. You can't leave the level without solving it.

Please.

[DOSGAMES]

Miku Flarestorm, on 10 November 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

A timed dungeon with acid. You can't leave the level without solving it.

Please.

I first read "A timed dungeon ON acid". God that'd be horrible, I'd spend 20 minutes looking at the Repair Anvil in the beginning.

[Sheepski]

DOSGAMES, on 10 November 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

I think that's debatable. Anet's promise of no linear progression was a vague sales pitch, not an underlying philosophy  They said the same stuff about Guild Wars 1. (Remember all the "No grind" rhetoric?) Well, there was plenty of grind in Guild Wars. (Tyrian Explorer/Vanquisher was the most excruciating 2 months of my life.)

Based on the fluffy stuff Anet talked about pre-release, they wanted a game where you just go out and do your thing and adventure. It was almost like Anet wanted to make "Shenmue" and thank god they didn't.


You still level, you still steadily get better gear. The linear progression is there, all Anet needs to do is continue on that. (In fact all these people are complaining about nothing to do at 80 because that's when most of the linear progression ends)


People say they don't want a grind or linear progression and these same people are crying fowl that there is no "end-game".  Weather Anet wants to gravitate back to middle or not, I think sales will force their hand.  Now, I'm not saying Guild Wars 2 needs to have WoW raid progression but, having a steady improvement in a guilds ability to clear a dungeon helps add playtime and value. I don't think a mechanic like Nightfall's "Lightbringer" would violate Anet's philosophy and something like this would add linear progression.

The problem with dungeons currently are they are the same experience every time  My guildies and I clear them the first time we try them, maybe after a couple runs we find some skippable mobs and short cuts. But after a while, there's no reason to go there besides badges and some easy Silver.

It's important to note that I wouldn't want this progression to last outside the dungeon itself. Like the "Lightbringer" title, killing Tormented stuff made you better and killing Tormented stuff, but it didn't persist outside the Domain of Anguish. Most people are against linear progression because it forces them to invest time just to say ahead. If it was dungeon specific, you may take a 2 month break, miss out on the latest dungeon, but you won't feel completely gimped. And the new dungeon would start and you can be on the same playing field as others.

This new dungeon is supposed to have Leaderboards and this might be a carrot for some people. Maybe that's all it will take. But, I wouldn't be surprised if Anet starts backing off on some of their initial design promises. If it's for the better of the game. I'm cool with that.

From how I read your post there's 2 distinct areas of progression.

Firstly, titles/benefits etc such as the Lightbringer and EoTN titles/buffs etc which helped you to complete that content easier, and was earned only in that content. That stuff is fine and I think leader boards are a good idea, or some sort of reputation or whatever to help in this new dungeon.

However I see statistical improvements through new armours and weapons as a completely different beast. And one I don't want to see. Even at the end of Gw1, the armours you bought from Prophecies, such as the elite 15k stuff, they were still "max stats". There was no need to grind a certain type of content to get a certain tier/standard of gear just to be accepted within any group. I mean if we had a new tier above exotics, people would shortly be asking for full gear of that standard to enter current content groups, not just the new dungeon. It happens in every gear based MMO.

Plus, if we had a higher stat tier, what would happen to all the current dungeons and orr karma, crafted sets etc... they'd become useless or simply a stepping stone to starting to grind the new dungeon. If there was a crafted version of the new tier, then ok.. we could transmute all current stuff we love the looks of etc, and not be forced into doing one area of the content to stay competitive. Still... if I wanted to play the constant gear chase then I'd go back any other MMO out there.

P.S It certainly was a core philosophy of their to have an even statistical playing field so that skill and experience are the more defining factors. Sure they've introduced minor gear tiers but it's not out of anyone's reach to get exotics given multiple paths to obtain gear. The game can be played fine with rare's even if people don't have time for exotics etc.

[DOSGAMES]

Sheepski, on 10 November 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

Plus, if we had a higher stat tier, what would happen to all the current dungeons and orr karma, crafted sets etc... they'd become useless or simply a stepping stone to starting to grind the new dungeon. If there was a crafted version of the new tier, then ok.. we could transmute all current stuff we love the looks of etc, and not be forced into doing one area of the content to stay competitive. Still... if I wanted to play the constant gear chase then I'd go back any other MMO out there.

I should have been better at explaining it and by mistake I believe I even mentioned improved dungeon specific armor . I definitely wouldn't want Gear with better inherent stats. But, I would have no problem with let's say... a boss dropping a piece of what could become a usable item (Potion, food, or booster) that improves damage and defense against the next level of the dungeon.  People could still clear that next level without it, but it definately helps you. And if you fail at the next level of the dungeon, after a couple clears of level 1, you now have built a booster that will improve your odds.

One of the most rewarding things about any RPG is to go into a zone and get whooped. Later, after more preparation, you go in there and beat something that seemed insurmountable at first.  To me, adding this kind of context to a zone or encounter is rewarding. It's linear progression.  It doesn't have to be in the form of gear though.

I think what upsets most people about WoW style Tiered Gear progression is that you are constantly replacing your armor. And if you miss 3 months, you have to go back and do a outdated dungeon just so you are "geared" to do the next.

If they made it dungeon specific, you wouldn't have this problem.

Edited by DOSGAMES, 10 November 2012 - 01:16 PM.

[Sheepski]

DOSGAMES, on 10 November 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

I should have been better at explaining it and by mistake I believe I even mentioned improved dungeon specific armor . I definitely wouldn't want Gear with better inherent stats. But, I would have no problem with let's say... a boss dropping a piece of what could become a usable item (Potion, food, or booster) that improves damage and defense against the next level of the dungeon.  People could still clear that next level without it, but it definately helps you.

One of the most rewarding things about any RPG is to go into a zone and get whooped. Later, after more preparation, you go in there and beat something that seemed insurmountable at first.  To me, adding this kind of context to a zone or encounter is rewarding. It's linear progression.  It doesn't have to be in the form of gear though.

I think what upsets most people about WoW style Tiered Gear progression is that you are constantly replacing your armor. And if you miss 3 months, you have to go back and do a outdated dungeon just so you are "geared" to do the next.

If they made it dungeon specific, you wouldn't have this problem.

Ahh yeah some consumables earned in one level to help later on, that's an awesome way of approaching it... like you say still gives the progression and helps make the next content easier, and gives good tangible rewards from earlier levels. As long as, such as in  your example, the rewards won't make other parts of the game easier, then people can't use it to increase the "acceptable standard" and "required grind" in other to stay on top of things

What I've always liked about Gw was that all the content/grind etc was always optional, after the basic stuff to get skills/max stats etc. If for eg, I wanted to get CoF armour on all 8 chars and nothing else, I wouldn't be any less off than someone who got any other kind of gear for eg... just that choice really.

Edited by Sheepski, 10 November 2012 - 01:19 PM.

[RedStar]

DOSGAMES, on 10 November 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

But, I would have no problem with let's say... a boss dropping a piece of what could become a usable item (Potion, food, or booster) that improves damage and defense against the next level of the dungeon.  People could still clear that next level without it, but it definately helps you. And if you fail at the next level of the dungeon, after a couple clears of level 1, you now have built a booster that will improve your odds.

Does this boss always drop that item ? Because if it doesn't, I don't find it to be a great idea...When designing a dungeon, you set the difficulty on what you expect players to wear/do.

You want a booster that greatly helps you for the next part of the dungeon. So Anet would have two choices : either making it easy for those that have the booster, or hard for those that don't have it.

You can't have a middle ground because that would make your booster idea useless.

DOSGAMES, on 10 November 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

The problem with dungeons currently are they are the same experience every time  My guildies and I clear them the first time we try them, maybe after a couple runs we find some skippable mobs and short cuts. But after a while, there's no reason to go there besides badges and some easy Silver.

Are you talking about how each path is the same each time ? I guess that Anet did somewhat lie when they said something like "each time you do a path, there would be something new"...except for the occasional Troll in AC I never saw something new and I've been repeating some paths a lot of time...oh you do sometime encounter bugs, maybe this is what they meant...

Edited by RedStar, 10 November 2012 - 04:32 PM.