202 replies to this topic

[Cesip]

Just a random idea: Drop 5 Points in Radiance to get 5 in Virtues. Take Shelter as a heal.

Shelter has great synergy with Valor 25 Minor: Gain Might when you block attacks. Shelter has 2 secs of blocking all dmg. For trash fights I could see that working really good. Pure ST fights are a bit different. But you don't need that much healing there anyways.

[Bender222]

I am currently using strife's Ah/em build with soldier runes aswell as the human racial heal. I am really on the fence about swapping to this route. I have been building up my stats a piece of gear at a time. I have finally acquired a full set of knights draconic w soldiers runes and exotic weapons each with strife's recommended sigils. Lyssa runes are like 3g a piece and the money I spend on buying them would delay me from purchasing exotic trinkets/jewels as I currently am using green quality ones. Throughout the time I have been using strife's approach it has felt like none of the elites have really been very effective at all or even worth using outside of the short invulnerability on renewed focus I rarely use. I really think that the use of the signets (resolve and judgement) will also make me feel more comfortable when I don't have a need to use them while still benefitting from a bigger heal and lower cool down on my heal.
     How do you feel with Strife going 10 virtues for swapping in consecration or spirit weapon traits in fractals along with the added benefit of boons on virtues use? Still think staying with signet of resolve is worth it? I figure since I already have 6 soldier runes I should wait until I have enough gold to buy 6 lyssa runes at once before swapping them out. I would then proceed to get exotic trinkets  to finish up gearing up.
     I tried out hammer in the mists and while banish and ring of warding are cool it seems like as far as dps goes using a hammer is really al about the aa chain and #2. I could never really find a situation where using any of the other hammer skills would add to my dps much (Might just be because Im a hammer noob ). I much preferred great sword. It seems like this build is really made to be able to continue to dps when taking damage and support the group by not dieing. The great sword to me feels much better at that to m. I am sure there are certain situations where one would need to use the hammer to accomplish a different goal though.

[Prefon Guardmar]

Bender222, on 26 January 2013 - 03:53 AM, said:

I am currently using strife's Ah/em build with soldier runes aswell as the human racial heal. I am really on the fence about swapping to this route. I have been building up my stats a piece of gear at a time. I have finally acquired a full set of knights draconic w soldiers runes and exotic weapons each with strife's recommended sigils. Lyssa runes are like 3g a piece and the money I spend on buying them would delay me from purchasing exotic trinkets/jewels as I currently am using green quality ones. Throughout the time I have been using strife's approach it has felt like none of the elites have really been very effective at all or even worth using outside of the short invulnerability on renewed focus I rarely use. I really think that the use of the signets (resolve and judgement) will also make me feel more comfortable when I don't have a need to use them while still benefitting from a bigger heal and lower cool down on my heal.
How do you feel with Strife going 10 virtues for swapping in consecration or spirit weapon traits in fractals along with the added benefit of boons on virtues use? Still think staying with signet of resolve is worth it? I figure since I already have 6 soldier runes I should wait until I have enough gold to buy 6 lyssa runes at once before swapping them out. I would then proceed to get exotic trinkets  to finish up gearing up.
I tried out hammer in the mists and while banish and ring of warding are cool it seems like as far as dps goes using a hammer is really al about the aa chain and #2. I could never really find a situation where using any of the other hammer skills would add to my dps much (Might just be because Im a hammer noob ). I much preferred great sword. It seems like this build is really made to be able to continue to dps when taking damage and support the group by not dieing. The great sword to me feels much better at that to m. I am sure there are certain situations where one would need to use the hammer to accomplish a different goal though.

The 10 in virtues is nice if you are in high level fractals for the concentrations....however there was an analysis done on the benefits of keeping the 10 points in radiance. You get significantly more self healing with the signet cooldown over a period of 90 sec. If you look at his guide, he has a section at the bottom that shows what posts he does comparisons in.
Also, I feel that my dps is very adequate with the greatsword in the build and i switch to staff when i need to take some pressure off of me and heal up myself/allies. Love this build!\


EDIT: here is the post

Great question/comment.  I agonized over that.  A lot.  Still do.   And exactly for the reasons you describe.  5 Virtues is good, actually great (best 5 point spot in any of the trait lines). And in true tinkering spirit I still always wonder if I can grab that easy 5 in Virtues - the challenge becomes "what do I give up?"

You need 30 in Valor to get Altruistic Healing, so that can't be changed.

*************
PULL 5 FROM HONOR?

You only need 20 in Honor to get Empowering Might, but not going 30 in Honor - you give up 20% 2H CD reduction - which is huge both for dps, and self heal from skills (like the symbols, Staff Empower), or the utility given up on having less available Leap or Binding Blade dot/pull/interrupt. (you also lose 500 health from trait stats).  

Here is my math over a 90 second period:

*Two Handed Mastery gives you, during a typical 90 second period using Greatsword, an ADDITIONAL:
2x Symbol of Wrath (burns foes, grants retaliation to allies, self heals for any boons granted)
2x Whirling Wrath (AoE damage, grants self heals 50% of the time when it crits any foe, and adds might to allies)
1x Leap of Faith (blinds nearby foes)
1x Binding Blade (DOT on foes, on demand interrupt/knockdown)
500 health in your hp pool throught the entire fight

*Virtues Adept Minor trait, over a typical 90 seconds (using Renewed Focus reset), gives you an ADDITIONAL:
4x Might to allies (compared to 2x Whirling Wrath which adds might to allies, plus AoE damage to foes)
2x Regeneration to allies (vs 1x Binding Blade interrupt/knockdown, 2x Symbol of Wrath retaliation to allies)
2x Protection to allies (vs 1x Leap of Faith - Blind prevents 100% damage to allies once, protection prevents 33% over 5 secs)

In my mind 2H Mastery is superior to 5 points in Virtues Minor, mainly because I want to do damage. It grants at least 4 more boons to allies compared to 8 more for Virtues minor trait (all boons self heal). But it also does additional AOE direct damage, AoE blind (preventing damage is often better than healing it), AoE interrupt (again, preventing damage), AOE burns and DOTs. And dont forget the 500 hp in your health bar (with all that armor to back it up!).

***********
PULL 5 FROM RADIANCE?

That leaves us with 10 Radiance to pull 5 trait points out of (lose Signet Mastery) to put into Virtues.  The comparison becomes:

*Virtues Adept Minor trait, over a typical 90 seconds (with Renewed Focus), gives you an ADDITIONAL:
4x Might to allies
2x Regeneration to allies
2x Protection to allies
8 buffs on 5 allies x 72 = 2,880 hp self healed

*Signet Mastery, over a typical 90 seconds, gives you an ADDITIONAL:
1x Heal from Signet of Resolve (8,150 HP)
1x Random boon on self from Signet of Resolve (from Rune of Lyssa), plus self-heal from boon (72 hp)
1x Retaliation to allies from Signet of Judgment
1x Weakness to surrounding foes from Signet of Judgment
1 buff on 5 allies x 72, plus 8,150 big heal, plus one self heal from random boon = 8,582 hp self-healed

This is a little closer tradeoff,  More self-heals from Signet of Mastery (8,600 vs 2,900 mostly from the single extra use of Signet of Resolve, but that's a big BURST heal, and sometimes you need those). Ally boon wise: Virtues comes out way ahead.

So it depends if you want to add support vs. staying alive (controlled burst self-heal) in the worst situations.  I went with staying alive (for now), because I'm not always with allies, and the Signet Mastery still helps allies too, but nowhere near as much.

But yes, the lure of 5 Virtues is always there for me.  I may switch to it.  I call this situation "good game design by ANet" to force us to make choices like these, so that one build cannot "have it all".

Thanks for reading and commenting!

Edited by Prefon Guardmar, 26 January 2013 - 04:54 AM.

[heatrr]

Play tested this in WvW and be assured, this 'unkillable' build is certainly killable and easily....

[Bender222]

this is a PVE build. I wouldn't expect it to perform well in Pvp.

[Tooth Fairy]

heatrr, on 26 January 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

Play tested this in WvW and be assured, this 'unkillable' build is certainly killable and easily....

Bill Gate, you spent that much of golds for runes & armors w/o reading?

[Tooth Fairy]

Bender222, on 26 January 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

this is a PVE build. I wouldn't expect it to perform well in Pvp.

I think it's still viable if you swap Save yourself with Judge Int. Now you have 2 escape skills (GS#3, JI), Speed on staff 3, 2 stuns breaker (SYG & JI). If you want more condition removal fast enough, you can also swap Signet of Judgement with Smite Condition for 3 levels of conditon removals (10 s on SOR passive, SC & Renew Focus w/ Lyssa 6).

Edited by Tooth Fairy, 28 January 2013 - 06:58 PM.

[Bender222]

But if you swap to judge intervention and Smite condition wouldn't you be better of going monks focus since you are really using many shouts anymore

[Tooth Fairy]

It's not going to be perfect but it's still usable in my view (and I still save my original investment for PvE content). Save Yourself has 60s & RF has 90s CD and with conditions & stuns dumped on your party constantly in WvW with mesmers from the other side, it's better to swap with faster condition removal skills.

[Fhom]

Hello, I need help to choose which ascended back/rings/amulet to get, I would like to mantain similar stats of the OP but I'm going crazy with combinations, I don't want to loose vitality and toughness.

At this moment exotic back/rings/amulet have these stats (if I did the sum right):
Power 306 Vitality 126 Critical Damage 16% Toughness 105 Precision 117

"Best" combination I found is: Back Ring Ring Amulet Total Power 56 103 39 123 321 Vitality 18 39 85 142 Critical Damage 5% 8% 5% 18% Toughness 39 75 114 Precision 35 50 39 124

Do you have a best combination to suggest me please? Thank you.

[Bender222]

Here are my stats
full knights armor with emerald knights trinkets accept 2  beryl balk rings and berserker back

[Balthor]

Great guide, lots of useful info.

If you were to level a guardian through dungeons (starting lvl 40-50) would you use a scaled down build like this, or something else entirely? Any specific traits/skills/gear that would help leveling through AC/CM/etc?

Thanks

Edited by Balthor, 30 January 2013 - 10:56 PM.

[Ansatsuken]

Hey... i was wondering:

• what ascendant gear should i get instead of buying the exotics?

i just lvled up a guardian and i dont want to waste money buying the exotic jewelry since i can buy the ascendant gear btw, i just dont know what would be best for this build.

Thanks in advance, great guide.

[Ansatsuken]

Fhom, on 30 January 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

Hello, I need help to choose which ascended back/rings/amulet to get, I would like to mantain similar stats of the OP but I'm going crazy with combinations, I don't want to loose vitality and toughness.

At this moment exotic back/rings/amulet have these stats (if I did the sum right):
Power 306 Vitality 126 Critical Damage 16% Toughness 105 Precision 117

"Best" combination I found is: Back Ring Ring Amulet Total Power 56 103 39 123 321 Vitality 18 39 85 142 Critical Damage 5% 8% 5% 18% Toughness 39 75 114 Precision 35 50 39 124

Do you have a best combination to suggest me please? Thank you.

can you put the names of the ascendant items used to make that chart please?

[Fhom]

Ansatsuken, on 05 February 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

can you put the names of the ascendant items used to make that chart please?

Yes sorry, I made a mess with table and values, sorry.

Ascended Back: Berserker statistics - Prototype Fractal Capacitor (Ascended) or Quiver of Swift Flight or Book of Secrets
Power 56
Precision 35
Critical Damage 5%

Ascended Amulet: Soldier statistics - Mark of the Imperial Guard or Thackeray Family Crest or Barradin Family Crest
Power 126
Toughness 85
Vitality 85

Ascended Ring: Prefix: Berserker - Suffix: Valkyrie - Bagh Nakh or Vine of the Pale Tree
Power 103
Precision 50
Vitality 18
Critical Damage 8%


Ascended Ring: Prefix: Celestial - Suffix: Celestial - Solaria, Circle of the Sun or Lunaria, Circle of the Moon
Power 39
Precision 39
Toughness 39
Vitality 39
Healing 39
Critical Damage 5%
Condition Damage 39
Magic Find 4%


Total:
Power 324
Precision 124
Toughness 114
Vitality 142
Healing 39
Critical Damage 18%
Condition Damage 39
Magic Find 4%

My statistics with Green Berseker's Back and exotic accessories suggested at the start of this thread are:

Power 306
Precision 117
Toughness 105
Vitality 126
Healing 0
Critical Damage 16%
Condition Damage 0
Magic Find 0%

Please if you have a better combination suggest me

Edited by Fhom, 06 February 2013 - 06:01 PM.

[Heskey]

Venyarth, on 03 November 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

...the lure of 5 Virtues is always there for me.  I may switch to it.  I call this situation "good game design by ANet" to force us to make choices like these, so that one build cannot "have it all".

Hi Venyarth, and all other posters.

Thanks very much for all your posts and theorycrafting; it makes my job as a dunce so much easier!

I've not really used sigils and runes properly yet, but this thread sounds like a very good base for getting to grips with PvE group play at 80.

I've read the majority of this thread, in particular the theorycrafting vs. theorycrafting posts, and for myself I suspect a 0/5/30/30/5 spec would work well, potentially with the hammer and the greatsword as backup:

1.) Despite losing Signet Mastery, I would keep Signet of Judgment as it would be my intention to keep it passive for 10% constant damage reduction - it could be the difference between life and death as far as my mind is concerned. But the good thing is that this can be changed on the fly with Hold The Line if I so choose, and this would benefit from Superior Aria and AH.
2.) I would take Shelter instead of Signet of Resolve; although it heals for less, I think 2 seconds of blocking is preferable to taking a 4k hit during the 1sec cast time of SoR, negating the additional healing it offers. Any blocked hits will grant might to the group, which in turn will heal you for giving them boons.
3.) I've not really experimented with the hammer at level 80 yet; but the protection symbol on #1 looks nice, and I hear good things about its DPS... I'm waiting for the Hammer vs. GS update =]

If I was to take the Hammer though, I wonder if it'd be worth taking 5 or even 10 points out of Honor, losing 2H Mastery and consider putting them somewhere else, as I read in another thread (Unselfish Tanky Hammer Build, I think) that only #1 and #2 of the hammer are worth any use, and the weapon doesn't really benefit from 20% CD on its abilities when the main ability is the auto-attack, with an 'every-now-and-then' haymaker.

Perhaps those points could go into 10 Zeal, or upping Radiance to 15? I'd be interested to see what alternatives someone could come up with based on this? I've not known myself to be perpetually out of endurance that I'd notice a significant DPS boost from Honor 25; but maybe a theorycrafter could show me otherwise?

I have AC 'Soldier' PVT armour by the way.

Thanks!

Edited by Heskey, 10 February 2013 - 01:16 AM.

[heatrr]

Heskey, on 10 February 2013 - 01:15 AM, said:

.... as I read in another thread (Unselfish Tanky Hammer Build, I think) that only #1 and #2 of the hammer are worth any use ...

Utter hogwash.

Ring of Warding -> Mighty Blow -> change to greatsword -> whirling wrath = circle of death
Hell, one could even throw banish into the mix prior to swapping to greatsword.
Be assured, there are a few here that use the same method I have described above, not just me.

Heskey, on 10 February 2013 - 01:15 AM, said:

I have AC 'Soldier' PVT armour by the way.

Accessories are what?
What is your crit chance and crit damage?

[Heskey]

A good point well made; thank you. Anyone else?

Edited by Heskey, 10 February 2013 - 01:26 AM.

[Ansatsuken]

Heskey, on 10 February 2013 - 01:25 AM, said:

A good point well made; thank you. Anyone else?

what about the ascendant gear? thanks.

[Tooth Fairy]

heatrr, on 10 February 2013 - 01:23 AM, said:

Utter hogwash.

Ring of Warding -> Mighty Blow -> change to greatsword -> whirling wrath = circle of death
Hell, one could even throw banish into the mix prior to swapping to greatsword.
...

Exactly. Another variation:

Zealot Embrace -> MB-> RoW >GS (Whirling Wrath) ->Ring of Death

[Kanupling]

Hello , Just wanted to ask your #11 on the rotation on what you do. Great sword with the leap of faith heals you? with fury? how does that happen?

[BZeeB]

Great Guide, used it as a basis for my tanky dungeon healer.  I decided to shy away from the lyssa runes (cost mostly) and went solider instead.  Also for my jewelry I went for a combination of magi / Valk.  I shot for around 2980 armor, ~40%+ crit chance / crit dmg, and ~780 healing.  I plan on using consumables / stack runes to pump up either healing / precision / power if needed.

So far its worked very well.

Edited by BZeeB, 25 February 2013 - 05:01 PM.

[heatrr]

Tooth Fairy, on 28 January 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

Bill Gate, you spent that much of golds for runes & armors w/o reading?

Oh, I have certainly read this and tested it. As such, the build is solid but is not "unkillable," whether in WvW format or a PvE format, sport.
Refute it if I am wrong other than providing snide remarks, kkthx.