202 replies to this topic

[Venyarth]

Zorian51, on 06 November 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

Thanks for the post I may actually end up using Signet of Judgement more then. I guess I was worried I would need the extra regeneration. Two other questions for you if you dont mind.

I feel like having a hammer might be better because of the protection? Is it needed you think? (snip)

My second question is have you considered using mango pies (Heal every second) instead of the flat HP increase? I imagine the heal over time would give you a lot more HP then the 1000 or so for food. I think they heal around 90-100 a second.

Thanks again

Thanks for the continued interest!

I'll get a full writeup on hammer after I play with it some more.

As to the second question on food. There are lots of good choices depending on the situation, and of course, how easily you can source a reliable supply of your favorites   My source had the poultry on hand, so that's what I played with first.

Plate of Lemongrass Poultry, (not the bowl) or anything that gives a HP/health benefit - is probably best used to avoid one hit kills, or to give you a safety margin in high burst situations (such as leaping in for the first pull/bind on a pack of mobs).

It's going to be a personal judgment call/gut feel on when to have more HP margin, vs more healing over time. I've lived with under 1K hp so many times that I just feel I need that margin for what I'm doing in GW2 currently. If I go a long stretch with never getting below 1K hp, it means I don't need the hp buffer, and time to think about a change.

Plate of Lemongrass Poutry (again, not the bowl) has one other overlooked side effect too. +200 power when you are below 50% health.  That is a lot of power. Also note the synergy with Valorous Defense Minor Trait (gain Aegis when health drops below 50%). I love the concept of being stronger as you are close to death, and the whole Renewed Focus + Lyssa Rune combo really adds to this if you are into that play style.

If you micro-manage your self-heals, you may be able to hover above and below 50% health quasi-controllably - constantly getting Aegis while keping the +200 power up often.  First, having the additional 1,000 health makes that 50% health point a bigger number (and thus a slightly better margin of error from a sudden death), and second, NOT having an "always on" heal over time is actually a benefit if you want to try this.  This is admittedly more theoretical than practical, as the way the build works now, you self-heal about 2/3rds of the time you push a button.

Mango Pie is incredible though, and very much adds to the self-heal synergy.  it gives 700hp, so nearly equal to the Plate of Lemongrass Poultry there. And of course, it has a heal over time. 88hp per second according to the wiki. That is flat out insane.

It ends up being a tradeoff decision of having more defense/healing with the Pie, vs having a slightly more hp buffer and some interesting, albeit not overly consequential offensive/playstyle options with the Poultry.  Is 88hp/s constant heal worth more than 200 power when less than 50% health? Many people would say "yes".

Thanks you for bringing this food to my attention! I had my source make me a bunch of Mango Pie to cart around in my bags after seeing this. In fact, she is switching her Guardian to full time Mango Pie, I'm probably going to join her

Edited by Venyarth, 07 November 2012 - 12:43 PM.

[Venyarth]

ZCKS, on 07 November 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

One thing I will note however is that he should consider using pure of voice if he is going to be going 30 points into honor and using a shout build.
It can be a game changer & completely screw over condition focused specs.


Whatever you choose to do Venyarth I hope your happy with it & have fun.

Thanks, I appreciate all suggestions that are within the scope of this build. The great thing about GW2 is there are so many ways to play, and you can tweak your build to be stronger against certain situations (while weakening it vs others - which is good game balance design)

The main thrust of this build (and I suppose by inference, the thread) is Emp Might, Alt Healing, + 6x Rune of Lyssa.  Anything within that realm is fair game (and a lot of the suggestions have made me think).  Swapping out to a different runeset or losing either Emp Might or Alt Healing would probably be better analyzed elsewhere, just to keep this thread focused.

Pure of Voice can indeed be formidable against condition focused specs, and I thought about it a lot. I'm focused on PvE here (since it is the PvE forum sections), even though I mention PvP sometimes.  I don't find that much condition spam on PvE mobs - but I dont claim to know them all by heart.

Plus, I run with another guardian, and we have double Combo Field:Light, plus Combo Finisher:Whirl to cleanse conditions in an AOE area. I can do this condition removal combo much more frequently with Two-Handed Mastery, which I'd have to give up if I chose Pure of Voice.

Lastly, I'm not a pure shout build, my utilities are 2 Signet, 2 shout. I've detailed why I slightly prefer the 2nd Signet (Judgment) vs a 3rd shout ("Hold the Line!") previously.

Mostly though, I can't live without 2H mastery. I really like firing off those greatsword skills as rapidly as possible. 1xCombo Field, 2x Whirl Finisher, 1x Leap Finisher. Those are all very synergistic with other classes/groups, and for my play style, give me a lot more options on what to do (Dot, pull, interrupt, cleanse, AoE blind etc.) 20% faster - vs having a more limited situational use "transform condition" trait.

Edited by Venyarth, 07 November 2012 - 12:36 PM.

[Raynott]

Very much appreciated, thanks for the awesome guide!

[Zorian51]

Venyarth, on 07 November 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

Thanks for the continued interest!

I'll get a full writeup on hammer after I play with it some more.

As to the second question on food. There are lots of good choices depending on the situation, and of course, how easily you can source a reliable supply of your favorites   My source had the poultry on hand, so that's what I played with first.

Plate of Lemongrass Poultry, (not the bowl) or anything that gives a HP/health benefit - is probably best used to avoid one hit kills, or to give you a safety margin in high burst situations (such as leaping in for the first pull/bind on a pack of mobs).

It's going to be a personal judgment call/gut feel on when to have more HP margin, vs more healing over time. I've lived with under 1K hp so many times that I just feel I need that margin for what I'm doing in GW2 currently. If I go a long stretch with never getting below 1K hp, it means I don't need the hp buffer, and time to think about a change.

Plate of Lemongrass Poutry (again, not the bowl) has one other overlooked side effect too. +200 power when you are below 50% health.  That is a lot of power. Also note the synergy with Valorous Defense Minor Trait (gain Aegis when health drops below 50%). I love the concept of being stronger as you are close to death, and the whole Renewed Focus + Lyssa Rune combo really adds to this if you are into that play style.

If you micro-manage your self-heals, you may be able to hover above and below 50% health quasi-controllably - constantly getting Aegis while keping the +200 power up often.  First, having the additional 1,000 health makes that 50% health point a bigger number (and thus a slightly better margin of error from a sudden death), and second, NOT having an "always on" heal over time is actually a benefit if you want to try this.  This is admittedly more theoretical than practical, as the way the build works now, you self-heal about 2/3rds of the time you push a button.

Mango Pie is incredible though, and very much adds to the self-heal synergy.  it gives 700hp, so nearly equal to the Plate of Lemongrass Poultry there. And of course, it has a heal over time. 88hp per second according to the wiki. That is flat out insane.

It ends up being a tradeoff decision of having more defense/healing with the Pie, vs having a slightly more hp buffer and some interesting, albeit not overly consequential offensive/playstyle options with the Poultry.  Is 88hp/s constant heal worth more than 200 power when less than 50% health? Many people would say "yes".

Thanks you for bringing this food to my attention! I had my source make me a bunch of Mango Pie to cart around in my bags after seeing this. In fact, she is switching her Guardian to full time Mango Pie, I'm probably going to join her

Good to hear! Ya Mango Pie is pretty amazing on anyone taking damage. I look forward to hearing about the hammer as I really am thinking about trying it for the extra protection.

[Kratimas]

Wow, ty for this awesome guide.

I am just starting my guardian (lvl 15) and I was wandering what traits should I focus on as I go along.

So, I guess my question is what should my traits look like at Level 11 - 40 and then 40 - 60.

So, for example should I put 5 Valor then 5 honor then back to Valor? Or should I put every point into say Valor until I hit 30 then switch to Honor.

Which gives the most benefit as you level?

Or does it not matter that much as you level?

Thanks

[Izokka]

Zorian51, on 07 November 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

Good to hear! Ya Mango Pie is pretty amazing on anyone taking damage. I look forward to hearing about the hammer as I really am thinking about trying it for the extra protection.

Mmm, can I ask y are you waiting for someone to tell u that the hammer is amazing for you io use it.
I think I'm one if the first guardians that changed gs right after the mb update. And I can't regret it. I love ittttt.

btw ... Even if u have less crit it wont super affect em, it had an internal cd of 1sec.

[Venyarth]

Kratimas, on 07 November 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

Wow, ty for this awesome guide.

I am just starting my guardian (lvl 15) and I was wandering what traits should I focus on as I go along.

So, I guess my question is what should my traits look like at Level 11 - 40 and then 40 - 60.

So, for example should I put 5 Valor then 5 honor then back to Valor? Or should I put every point into say Valor until I hit 30 then switch to Honor.

Which gives the most benefit as you level?

Or does it not matter that much as you level?

Thanks

The "Guardian of Lyssa" build is very much an end game build - as you need at least 50 trait points to get the Empowering Might/Altruistic Healing combo that drives the unkillable part of the setup. And you probably don't want to spend 1.5 gold (or whatever the current Trading Post price) x 6 for Runes of Lyssa until you get final, exotic gear.

When leveling, I'd play with whatever seems fun, as it is very cheap to redo the traits. (it caps out at 3.2 silver at level 80, but is MUCH cheaper at early levels).  I do have a few suggestions.

First 5 points in Virtues.  The Virtues are 3 skills you get right away, and it's easy to buff all 3 fairly powerfully with the first 5 points in Virtues.  It's the best first 5 with the broadest range of benefits in my opinion.

Next 5 points also in Virtues (to get to 10). Only because this gives you a choice of trait skills to play with early on. All six options have really good uses in the right situations, and you can switch them out when not in combat, by merely clicking on that hexagon in your trait box. (I didn't know about this for 3 weeks, and kept going back to the trainer to reset!)  If you put the next 5 points somewhere else besides Virtues, you don't really get to play around as much, as early.

I got 2H mastery as soon as possible with 20 Honor. If you had the patience to plow through all my posts above, you'll see how much I love the utility it gives you with Greatsword (you are 20% faster on being able to do Leap, AoE Blind, AoE Damage over time, AoE Condition Heal on Allies, AoE retaliation....) So many options and choices to apply in the heat of battle = fun for me. Your play style may vary of course.

Having the extra 2,000 health helps too, as that would be a 20% to 30% hit point buff at lower levels - a nice margin of error as you are learning the Guardian and experimenting.

After that, just play around.  

You'll be forced to go "wide" into another trait line, before you can go "deep", because you'll have lots of trait points to spend before you reach the levels necessary to open up the Master/Grandmaster sections.  Put in other words, you can't spend your first 20 trait points in one line, because you won't be high enough level to open up the "Master" traits (which I think is at level 40. Grandmaster at level 60).

Overall, I'd stick with groups of 10, just so you can open up the "choose-able" trait skills as early as possible to play with.

Good Luck and enjoy the Guardian!

Edited by Venyarth, 07 November 2012 - 06:29 PM.

[Kratimas]

Venyarth, on 07 November 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

The "Guardian of Lyssa" build is very much an end game build - as you need at least 50 trait points to get the Empowering Might/Altruistic Healing combo that drives the unkillable part of the setup. And you probably don't want to spend 1.5 gold (or whatever the current Trading Post price) x 6 for Runes of Lyssa until you get final, exotic gear.

When leveling, I'd play with whatever seems fun, as it is very cheap to redo the traits. (it caps out at 3.2 silver at level 80, but is MUCH cheaper at early levels).  I do have a few suggestions.

First 5 points in Virtues.  The Virtues are 3 skills you get right away, and it's easy to buff all 3 fairly powerfully with the first 5 points in Virtues.  It's the best first 5 with the broadest range of benefits in my opinion.

Next 5 points also in Virtues (to get to 10). Only because this gives you a choice of trait skills to play with early on. All six options have really good uses in the right situations, and you can switch them out when not in combat, by merely clicking on that hexagon in your trait box. (I didn't know about this for 3 weeks, and kept going back to the trainer to reset!)  If you put the next 5 points somewhere else besides Virtues, you don't really get to play around as much, as early.

I got 2H mastery as soon as possible with 20 Honor. If you had the patience to plow through all my posts above, you'll see how much I love the utility it gives you with Greatsword (you are 20% faster on being able to do Leap, AoE Blind, AoE Damage over time, AoE Condition Heal on Allies, AoE retaliation....) So many options and choices to apply in the heat of battle = fun for me. Your play style may vary of course.

Having the extra 2,000 health helps too, as that would be a 20% to 30% hit point buff at lower levels - a nice margin of error as you are learning the Guardian and experimenting.

After that, just play around.  

You'll be forced to go "wide" into another trait line, before you can go "deep", because you'll have lots of trait points to spend before you reach the levels necessary to open up the Master/Grandmaster sections.  Put in other words, you can't spend your first 20 trait points in one line, because you won't be high enough level to open up the "Master" traits (which I think is at level 40. Grandmaster at level 60).

Overall, I'd stick with groups of 10, just so you can open up the "choose-able" trait skills as early as possible to play with.

Good Luck and enjoy the Guardian!

Thank you so much for the info and the quick response.

This will get me started and give me some room to play and see what works for me.

Also, I can't wait to get home from work and watch your video

[Zorian51]

Izokka, on 07 November 2012 - 06:11 PM, said:

Mmm, can I ask y are you waiting for someone to tell u that the hammer is amazing for you io use it.
I think I'm one if the first guardians that changed gs right after the mb update. And I can't regret it. I love ittttt.

btw ... Even if u have less crit it wont super affect em, it had an internal cd of 1sec.

Just looking for opinions is all. Hammer and GS both look good. GS has the pull for example and spin move which are useful and the retaliation. Hammer has protection but slower attacks and a blast finisher. I'm guessing they are both great weapons just looking for opinions on which one is stronger being the front line damage soak.

[Venyarth]

Kratimas, on 07 November 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

Thank you so much for the info and the quick response.

This will get me started and give me some room to play and see what works for me.

Also, I can't wait to get home from work and watch your video

I don't have any videos, but strife05 (the original link in the first post), has many excellent videos showing him in action with a very similar build (and he posted his a month earlier than me), only with different runes.  Watch his, and be in awe, and full credit to strife05 for demonstrating the power of the EM/AH build

My only contribution to the build he explains is the Lyssa Rune set with Renewed Focus.

[farkov47]

Wouldn't Shelter be a better healing option since it blocks everything for 2 seconds and synergize with your Might of the Protector Valor trait? 10 second passive condition removal is nice, yes. But I kinda feel 2 seconds of block can make up for the lessened healing that the Shelter provides.

[Venyarth]

farkov47, on 08 November 2012 - 05:23 AM, said:

Wouldn't Shelter be a better healing option since it blocks everything for 2 seconds and synergize with your Might of the Protector Valor trait? 10 second passive condition removal is nice, yes. But I kinda feel 2 seconds of block can make up for the lessened healing that the Shelter provides.

To be honest, I haven't played with Shelter since I was a really low level Guardian and haven't given it as much thought as I should. It's an interesting suggestion you make. Certainly has it's tradeoff pros/cons that you mention.

I do really love passive conditional removal. I can never have too much condition removal - nothing is more annoying to me than being rooted or slowed in place, and unable to get to your target.

This suggestion does open up options. If I went Shelter (and could live with the tradeoffs vs. Signet of Resolve), I'd drop the other Signet for "Hold the Line!" (analysis in earlier post), and move 5 trait points out of Radiance and into Virtue to get the first minor trait.

Very interesting.  Would be a less "constant tanky" and less burst self-heal variant - but still strong in both, and you get the 2s block all "burst defense"). You do gain some nice group support buffs with nice synergies with the Lyssa Runes.

The only thing making me hesitate is.... sometimes you really need that on demand, big burst of healing. 4,555 from Shelter is a lot smaller than the 8,150 from Signet of Resolve.  The Shelter self-heal has the potential to be a bit bigger thatn 4,555 with Might of the Protector synergy as you note- but at 72hp healed per buff/boon, you'd need to be hit roughly 50 times in those 2 secs to equal Signet healing (i.e. not happening).

The more important question you bring up is, will you block/avoid 3,600+ damage with the Shelter (which would then make it on par numbers wise from a damage healed/avoided equation)? This I think happens a decent amount of times (at least in what I do in PvE) to make Shelter a worthy contender.

The CD's are about equal. 30s to 32s, so not a big factor.

Thanks for suggesting! Something to seriously consider.

[Vackashken]

Did you reset... something (for lack of better wording). The build is missing from the build editor. Or is it just busted?

[Venyarth]

Vackashken, on 08 November 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

Did you reset... something (for lack of better wording). The build is missing from the build editor. Or is it just busted?

I listed everything manually on Post #29 of this thread, so you can use that if the build editor link doesn't work.  It works for me, but others have had problems.

[Vackashken]

Venyarth, on 08 November 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

I listed everything manually on Post #29 of this thread, so you can use that if the build editor link doesn't work.  It works for me, but others have had problems.

##Oh sorry, I didn't see it. Thank you kindly.

[Snarvid]

The 0/5/30/30/5 Shelter/Shout variant seems to shoehorn in what I need and almost everything I want for long-term PvE.  I'd love Renewed Justice, of course, but I don't really need it for dungeons.

I'm thinking that once you've broken down Radiance to 5, it is worth considering 0/0/30/30/10 for dungeons where Master of Consecrations or Consecrated Ground outpowers Blind on VoJ.

Whee!  Posted this in right thread!

Edited by Snarvid, 13 November 2012 - 05:33 PM.

[Zhaitan]

Finally built my guardian based on Lyssa. I made some minor adjustment to get to 50% crit with a Berserker GS.



I am in full Knight's with PVT pauldrons. I am sacrificing 480 health to gain 2.4% extra precision. Do I feel the missing vita? Hardly. But, yes, I do have a setup where I switch my chest and pauldrons to get that 480 vita back.

Thanks again for all the suggestions and special thanks to OP.

[Vesnik]

Why do stats vary so much when trying to replicate these builds? I've noticed the stats are always off, even when having the exact build/items. I've tried doing the same with another build on these forums and it was slightly off as well, does race have anything to do with it?

The only difference is I'm currently using a Mystic Claymore (Berserker's Greatsword stats) with Superior Sigil of Accuracy (+5% crit chance) so obviously my stats are going to be a bit off. However why is my Crit Chance like 2% lower than what it should be? (Actually at 48%, instead of 50 due to Sigil of Accuracy bug)

I can assure you, I've double, tripple checked my items and they're all as described in this thread, with the correct runes/jewels. Am I missing something?

[Arngrim Einheri]

Vesnik, on 16 November 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

Why do stats vary so much when trying to replicate these builds? I've noticed the stats are always off, even when having the exact build/items. I've tried doing the same with another build on these forums and it was slightly off as well, does race have anything to do with it?

The only difference is I'm currently using a Mystic Claymore (Berserker's Greatsword stats) with Superior Sigil of Accuracy (+5% crit chance) so obviously my stats are going to be a bit off. However why is my Crit Chance like 2% lower than what it should be? (Actually at 48%, instead of 50 due to Sigil of Accuracy bug)

I can assure you, I've double, tripple checked my items and they're all as described in this thread, with the correct runes/jewels. Am I missing something?

Maybe traits?

[Vesnik]

Arngrim Einheri, on 16 November 2012 - 05:53 PM, said:

Maybe traits?

Nope, I've checked all the traits as well. Even if I had the Guild Assassin backpack (which would put me one percent up) I would still be one percent down from the build's stats. I noticed also when using another build, with the same percent of Crit chance, I was exactly off by this much as well. What's the deal?

EDIT: Never mind, I'm a dummy. Rampager's actually has more precision than Berserker's, giving more crit chance. I never bothered to even look at its stats, as I just assumed the precision was the same on Berserker's, with an additional 9% crit chance. But apparently the extra precision is more than the additional 9% on Berserker's.

Edited by Vesnik, 16 November 2012 - 06:28 PM.

[Arngrim Einheri]

Vesnik, on 16 November 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

Nope, I've checked all the traits as well. Even if I had the Guild Assassin backpack (which would put me one percent up) I would still be one percent down from the build's stats. I noticed also when using another build, with the same percent of Crit chance, I was exactly off by this much as well. What's the deal?

EDIT: Never mind, I'm a dummy. Rampager's actually has more precision than Berserker's, giving more crit chance. I never bothered to even look at its stats, as I just assumed the precision was the same on Berserker's, with an additional 9% crit chance. But apparently the extra precision is more than the additional 9% on Berserker's.

ahh ok ok, I was just starting to get curious aswell

Edited by Arngrim Einheri, 17 November 2012 - 12:48 AM.

[vgfanatic1]

Vesnik, on 16 November 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

Why do stats vary so much when trying to replicate these builds? I've noticed the stats are always off, even when having the exact build/items. I've tried doing the same with another build on these forums and it was slightly off as well, does race have anything to do with it?

The only difference is I'm currently using a Mystic Claymore (Berserker's Greatsword stats) with Superior Sigil of Accuracy (+5% crit chance) so obviously my stats are going to be a bit off. However why is my Crit Chance like 2% lower than what it should be? (Actually at 48%, instead of 50 due to Sigil of Accuracy bug)

I can assure you, I've double, tripple checked my items and they're all as described in this thread, with the correct runes/jewels. Am I missing something?

Did you check the back brace? I'm not too sure what the lvl 80 one gives in terms of stats, but I do see that your back brace is different than the other pic's.

As for the build, it seems great, though I'm kind of curious of your weapon choice. Why do you choose condition damage in your weapons? The build doesn't focus around conditions; the only condition it uses is virtue of judgement, but the build doesn't even spec 15 into radiance to make it worthwhile to stat for.

For instance, couldn't you chose Berserker's for GS for the crit damage over condition damage? Am I missing something?

EDIT: Just saw the post where you talked about this (should have reread the posts before posting). Still, I feel like giving up crit damage and some power for a near useless stat and a little more crit chance isn't necessarily worthless. I understand that it's really all player choice, but I feel like you may want to take another look at it.

Edited by vgfanatic1, 17 November 2012 - 04:30 AM.

[Shrouded Leaves]

Dear OP, I just crafted my exotic knights armor for my paladin and was about to throw runes in them when I noticed a big change perhaps with guardians. It seems renewed focus no longer immobilizes when casting. Do you still feel like Runes of Lyssa are still the best option now that imob is not slowing you down? Would you consider using a different rune set now? Also when I was considering sigils for my greatsword I was compairing Perception with Accuracy and realized that Perception Sigil adds 11% to crit with 25 stacks while Accuracy adds the solid 5% at all times. Which do you think would be best for a guardian who will be doing dungeons alot?

[Cyrah]

im new to guardian, but this is pve/wvw right? if so i'd love to try out this build!

thanks for much for all the work on this, much appreciated!

[Snarvid]

Shrouded Leaves, on 17 November 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

Dear OP, I just crafted my exotic knights armor for my paladin and was about to throw runes in them when I noticed a big change perhaps with guardians. It seems renewed focus no longer immobilizes when casting. Do you still feel like Runes of Lyssa are still the best option now that imob is not slowing you down? Would you consider using a different rune set now? Also when I was considering sigils for my greatsword I was compairing Perception with Accuracy and realized that Perception Sigil adds 11% to crit with 25 stacks while Accuracy adds the solid 5% at all times. Which do you think would be best for a guardian who will be doing dungeons alot?

RF change is already noted in OP. 2nd full paragraph under setup. Not to say its a bad question, but making the fastest recharging Guardian elite better is unlikely to make Lyssa any worse.  You still presumably want the boon AH synergy, losing all conditions is still good, and as an EM/AH build you probably want Precision runes.  I don't see another Pre rune that offers better build synergy. I suppose if you were willing to look outside Pre the world opens considerably.

Edit: did being rooted while channeling used to be a condition that would be removed by Lyssa?  Is that what you are asking about?

I am still interested a conversation about dropping Radiance 10 for Virtues 10 using Shelter. Pros/cons?  Seems like Hallowed Ground with Master of Consecrations and Altruistic Healing could be potent.

Edited by Snarvid, 17 November 2012 - 05:54 PM.

[roamzero]

Exotics Knights gear can be expensive, you can achieve similar (if not better) stats going Pow/Tough/Vitality armor that can be bought with dungeon tokens (AC = easy) or from the 42k karma vendors in Orr. For your trinkets you will want to run Emerald slotted with Ruby jewels.

Edited by roamzero, 18 November 2012 - 09:40 AM.

[madmaxII]

This looks amazing, thanks for sharing!

One thing, how do you feel about the karma power/vit/toughness armor over the knight armor wherever possible? The low HP is something that really bothers me when I play my guardian and I have enough karma jugs at the moment to buy the karma armor. Is the extra precision important or can I trade it for vitality?

[Shroomhead Fred]

madmaxII, on 19 November 2012 - 12:11 AM, said:

This looks amazing, thanks for sharing!

One thing, how do you feel about the karma power/vit/toughness armor over the knight armor wherever possible? The low HP is something that really bothers me when I play my guardian and I have enough karma jugs at the moment to buy the karma armor. Is the extra precision important or can I trade it for vitality?

For crit chance, I would suggest having it above 40% min.  Once your passed that point, maybe then think about adding vitality.

You can also raise crit chance/dmg & HP with food too if that's more to your liking.

Just my humble opinion of course.

[Razkurdt Thunderclaw]

would be nice if he could see this build in action in a video

[Venyarth]

madmaxII, on 19 November 2012 - 12:11 AM, said:

This looks amazing, thanks for sharing!

One thing, how do you feel about the karma power/vit/toughness armor over the knight armor wherever possible? The low HP is something that really bothers me when I play my guardian and I have enough karma jugs at the moment to buy the karma armor. Is the extra precision important or can I trade it for vitality?

Thanks for reading.  The armor/stat loadout I presented is a starting "balance" point that I found to be effective for the things I run and the style I play.  Of course, individual tweaks due to playstyle, situations you find yourself in, or comfort level should always be tried, and if you are handy with a spreadsheet, you can even make specific tradeoff calculations.  (Example, math of using a Berserker instead of Ramapager weapon is on one of my earlier replies).

What happens when you make tradeoffs is that you will make yourself slightly better in some situations (solo vs group, surviving big one shots vs surviving swarms of enemies, doing more damage vs increasing chance of staying alive), but slightly worse in others.

Some guidelines when thinking about tradeoffs (and if you want to increase the stats below, the opposite will apply, of course):

**Reducing Precision/Crit %: reduces amount of times Empowering Might hits, which reduces ally buffs and your self heals.  Do this if you find yourself solo or have lots of toughness or HP to offset the heals lost.  Precision is the key to many self heals of this build, and of course, is key to burst damage too.  I wouldn't dip below 40-45% crit chance myself, and at <40%, you really aren't getting as much syngery out of this build as you could.

More Precision = More self-healing

**Reducing Toughness: makes your self heals effectively worse, since each 100 point of heals is offsetting less of an opponents damage sent to you.  If you reduce 50% damage through toughness, a 100 point self-heal is offsetting 200 damage sent to you, vs. if you reduced no damage, the 100 point heal only offsets half of the same 200 points opponent damage sent to you.

(NOTE that was purely a hypothetical example to make a point, your "real game" numbers won't be anything near as dramatically different as that. But directionally, it's the same principle).  Toughness is good for long fights, or "continual low damage done to you from many mobs" fights

More Toughness = Each self-heal is more effective. Note however, that some encounters require killing things in a certain amount of time. You can't "avoid damage" or "self-heal" an enemy mob to death

**Reducing Vitality: makes you less able to survive one shot blows (toughness does too), and less able to survive condition damage (toughness doesn't help this).  Vitality is good for situations where you fear being one-shot. Note though, nothing beats a good dodge roll, which also heals you and surrounding allies in this build.

More Vitality = Health "safety net" for big hits. Get just enough to live through the worst mishaps with 100 hp. There are no bonuses for never dipping below 1K health, although it may save you a heart attack

**Reducing Power:  this will not hurt your survivability, but in solo play, you will take much longer to kill something.  If all you want to do is stay alive, Power is not as important as Vitality, Healing or Precision. It is however, better than condition damage or healing power - healing power does almost nothing for guardians, and many of these self-heals have a static amount healed.

More Power = More damage done, shorter fights (note however, that downed/dead guardians do no damage)

Edited by Venyarth, 21 November 2012 - 10:15 PM.