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"Guardian of Lyssa" build. Unkillable self-healer w/ great DPS.

guardian rune of lyssa self-heal altruistic healing empowering might 2h mastery renewed focus tank

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#61 matsif

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 05:19 AM

wonderful thread with a ton of good info, definitely plan on using this when I start my guardian here in the next couple weeks.

#62 Bonanza Jellybean

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:57 PM

This build has almost ruined me for other classes, lol. Awesome stuff!!

#63 stenwolf

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:03 PM

First of all thanks for sharing the build.
I recently just rerolled to guard (main is an ele). I'm currently looking at this build and the build with soldier runes. Just a quick question, do you have any use for the 10% condition duration in the rune of lyssa?

#64 matsif

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 11:43 PM

View Poststenwolf, on 20 November 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

First of all thanks for sharing the build.
I recently just rerolled to guard (main is an ele). I'm currently looking at this build and the build with soldier runes. Just a quick question, do you have any use for the 10% condition duration in the rune of lyssa?

from what I'm understanding, the main power of the lyssa runes is the 6th effect of getting the amount of boons from using an elite, then topping that off with altruistic healing.  so, that effect of condition duration may not actually do too much (although you are still burning people from the virtue), but it just comes along with the stronger effects of the rune.

to OP: any update on hammer vs GS?

#65 malevolence

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 02:19 AM

Oh man, this build looks crazy, I am using Strife's build (Soldier Runes) but I really want to test this build in FotM level 10+, but at the moment I don't have money left for gear :( , FotM is a good place to test builds, level 10+ are very nasty, our whole party was getting wipe in 5 seconds during some bosses fights lol, even the best guardian build does not survive sometimes, at the end I started using more the Staff for attacking and keeping distance because it was just not possible to go melee due to the massive damage, and personally, I hate the Guardian's tome elite skills, they are so slow, I always liked RF more than the rest.

Edited by malevolence, 21 November 2012 - 02:22 AM.


#66 jpg1

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:27 AM

View Postmalevolence, on 21 November 2012 - 02:19 AM, said:

Oh man, this build looks crazy, I am using Strife's build (Soldier Runes) but I really want to test this build in FotM level 10+, but at the moment I don't have money left for gear :( , FotM is a good place to test builds, level 10+ are very nasty, our whole party was getting wipe in 5 seconds during some bosses fights lol, even the best guardian build does not survive sometimes, at the end I started using more the Staff for attacking and keeping distance because it was just not possible to go melee due to the massive damage, and personally, I hate the Guardian's tome elite skills, they are so slow, I always liked RF more than the rest.

Lyssa Runes are a bit on the high-end. But I think Soldier Runes are already one of the best sets for the Guardian to play with. Apart from Divinity, and a combination of Boon Extending Runes.

Fundamentally speaking, the behavior demonstrated in this build can be put to practice on any Guardian build, as Guardians are really survivors to the core. I think someone already mentioned that a defensive rotation featured in this build should be emulated closely by any Guardian Build. It may not be the exact thing but keeping the mentality helps a lot to forming your defensive strategy.

#67 Smiter

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:10 PM

Venyarth, thanks much for taking the time to share  and for sharing your passion.  This thread has been very helpful to me, mainly from your input, and the solid info shared by other helpful posters as well.  Positive threads like this give me hope about forum reading!  Thank you for that! :-)

My Guardian just reached 60 yesterday, and I am looking forward to trying this build when I hit 80.  Will check back in, for now.. wanted to say THANK YOU!

Edited by Smiter, 21 November 2012 - 03:12 PM.


#68 Tarug

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 06:54 PM

Venyarth,
I realize you discussed the 5 pts in Virtues in post #10, but adding to the future hammer vs GS analysis, if I choose to go with the hammer, wouldn't this choice favor a bit more the 0/15/30/20/5 setup, since 2H mastery won't affect the hammer DPS in the same way as the GS? Sure, I won't be able to use MB as often, but otherwise you would have to give up much less than with the GS in order to have both Inspired Virtues and Renewed Justice.

#69 Venyarth

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:26 PM

View Postmatsif, on 20 November 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

from what I'm understanding, the main power of the lyssa runes is the 6th effect of getting the amount of boons from using an elite, then topping that off with altruistic healing.  so, that effect of condition duration may not actually do too much (although you are still burning people from the virtue), but it just comes along with the stronger effects of the rune.

to OP: any update on hammer vs GS?

Your understanding is spot on. Additionaly, Lyssa rune also removes all your conditions on you upon using that elite.

The 10% condition damge duration is just a freebie that doesn't make that much of a difference on your overall damage.  At one point I used an "add Bleed on crit" Sigil on my weapon to take more advantage of condition damage/condition duration and my high crit, but that only made it 2x of "not much of a difference".

Of course, there is "some" benefit of condtion duration - but I eventually scrapped the idea of trying to take advantage of it (via bleed sigil) and went for more direct damage when I found out that bleed stacks cap at 25 (which made it less useful in truly large groups fighting a boss).

No update on Hammer yet.  I haven't had as much gaming time recently as I had earlier. But it's still on my list of things to do/look forward to in GW2, and I will get to it :)

#70 Venyarth

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:00 PM

Ancient Kraka Event Update (Nov 18)

I used this build for the entirety of the excellent Ancient Kraka one time event on Nov 18th.  Here is my experience - feel free to share/post yours too.

First off, hats off to ArenaNet for getting this event right and making it fun.  Third times a charm, especially after the dissapointments of the lag on Day One, and the not on time/too short/confusing Day Two event.  The third day event more than made up for the others.

For those that couldn't make it, this event was about 2.5 hours long in the new Southsun Cove island area, with multiple dynamic linked events.  The main thrust of the event was driving an Ancient Kraka to a spawn point trap where you could kill it with pre-set explosives.  The Ancient Kraka would continually spawn "hordes" of Veteran and Champion Kraka's as it slowly was forced to retreat via terrain triggered explosions, boulder geysers, gas traps, etc.  There were also a lot of the "back hugger" spawns to slow/DoT you up too.

The larger Kraka's all did their infamous "bowling ball roll" for big damage/instant death if you didn't dodge or if you were not sturdy enough to live through a near hit.  I lived through a couple near hits, after mis-timing my dodge - I'm maybe an 80-85% successful dodge timing player, meaning I'll mess up 1 out of every 5-7 chances.

I spent about 2 hours of that 2.5 hours in melee range of the main mobs to be attacked (or in melee range of objects we had to blow up that were guarded by Krakas), maybe 20 minutes rezzing others (lots and lots of downed/deaths), and about 10 mins just sitting back at range - I needed a rest, and got some real life food/drink.

I went solo on an overflow server until the last 15 mins when a guild member joined me, although there were a good 100+ other allies doing the event too.

Overall, I was just amazed at being able to live through everything. I died once early on, and was downed only 3 times, mostly due to over zealous rezzing of others. I wised up pretty fast, knowing that with this build, if you aren't hitting something, you aren't self-healing, and you become a low hp, high toughness sitting duck.

I still rezzed, but dodged away earlier/before they were up if danger was imminent.  Often times I was the last player standing from a small splinter group of players that was killed off by Kraka swarms, big hits or Kraka rolling.

When I was on the attack, the self heals, timely self dodge, and occassional Elite skill/Rune of Lyssa was just incredible. I could be very aggressive on melee, knowing I had the "invulnerable" Lyssa Rune+Renewed Focus combo to get me out of the worst jams

Indeed on at least a half dozen occassions, that combo is the only thing that saved me as my health was in triple digits, my dodge and heals and utilities were on CD, my allies were downed, and the mobs were still unleashing hell around me.  Instant cast 3 secs invulnerability while being able to move, all conditions healed, all boons after (which includes speed boost), made for some quick getaways and even quicker recovery before leaping back into the fight.

I used GS 95% of the time, Swapping to Staff for self-heals.  I could go from 4K health back to almost full in about 4 seconds after dodge rolling into a group and casting the Staff "Empower" skill. The extra might and healing to the nearby allies was an added support bonus.  WIth 100 people around, it's pretty easy to get the "Empower" to hit many allies, multiplying it's effectiveness.

Overall though, very very fun. And being on the knife's edge of life and death (but 95% on the alive side), made for some thrilling times.

#71 Venyarth

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:31 PM

Oh also, the Ancient Kraka Event on Nov 18th gave a one time, Unique, soulbound earring as a reward

Ancient Kraka Shell
+25 Vitality
+25 Power
+25 Precision
+25 Toughness
+25 Condition Damage
+25 Healing
+3% Critical Damage
+3% Magic Find
(Open Jewelry Slot)

Note that this is 150 stat points, +3% Crit and Magic Find (compared to 96 stats +3% crit, or 134 stats on my current earrings).  While this seems like a noticeable upgrade, it is spread between stats that I don't find as optimal for this build (Condition Damage, Healing), so only 100 of the stat points are "primarily useful".

I've been comparing this earring to my current setup and trying to find a way to work it in. After several hours of theory crafting, the Ancient Kraka Shell is still sitting in my inventory (a purposeful "sidegrade" design from ArenaNet). I'll likely eventually work it in, as it does have more total stats, and Condition Damage/Healing does have "some" theoertical use, even if it's limited compared to the other 4.

I just need to figure out what tradeoffs I'm willing to accept, and/or how any other exotics I'm willing to redo to balance my stats out (which is a cost tradeoff of sorts).

I might wait until I get my hands on some of the new Ascended gear so i don't have to rebalance everything twice.

Edited by Venyarth, 21 November 2012 - 11:31 PM.


#72 Venyarth

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:56 PM

View PostSmiter, on 21 November 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

Venyarth, thanks much for taking the time to share  and for sharing your passion.  This thread has been very helpful to me, mainly from your input, and the solid info shared by other helpful posters as well.  Positive threads like this give me hope about forum reading!  Thank you for that! :-)

My Guardian just reached 60 yesterday, and I am looking forward to trying this build when I hit 80.  Will check back in, for now.. wanted to say THANK YOU!

Thank you for the nice comments. My build description is a variant of Strife05's excellent build description (as stated in first post - plus he even included videos in his thread), and others have made great improvement suggestions on this thread as well.

It's a good community here at GW2Guru, with people building on each other's ideas in a constructive manner.  I've learned a lot reading all the threads under the Guardian section, and the wide variety of very viable builds suggests a very good game design by ArenaNet.

Have fun, and feel free to share your thoughts, experiments, questions, suggestions, observations or anything else.

#73 malevolence

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 02:50 PM

Alright, finally, few days ago, I spent hard earned gold to buy gear for this build, of course, as I am in a crysis right now (spent my money on investments that will pay off later), so this is what I have so far:

For Gear I have a mix set with the following stats: Power/Toughness/Vitality (as in Strife05's build) , with the 6 Runes of Lyssa.

Trinkets: All Emerald/Berserkers Power/Precision/Toughness:
-Emerald Orichalcum Amulet of the Beserker
-2x Emerald Mithril Earrings of the Berserker (cannot afford Exotic at the moment :( )
-2x Emerald Mithril Rings of the Berserker (cannot afford Exotic at the moment :( )

For Back item: Exotic Mad Memoires of the Berserker (Power/Toughness/Vitality).

For GS: Ghastly Greatsword (Power/Precision/Crit. Damage with Superior Sigil of Accuracy)

For Staff: Deathwish (Power/Precision/Crit. Damage with Major Sigil of Energy)...I know I need to look for a better staff with Healing Power + Vitality, I got Deathwish from the Ancient Karka Chest.

Here are my stats:


Power: 1,798
Precision: 1,705
Toughness: 1,760
Vitality: 1,454

Attack: 2,898
Crit. Chance: 42% Crit. Damage: 57%
Armor: 2,971
Health: 16,185

Alright, in overall, I see this build works fine, and I must say I like this variation more than Strife05's build, mainly because of the Berserker upgrades that inflict more damage and the damage reduction from the signet, this variation shines in particular situations. I tested the build in FotM up to level 12 without Agony resistance, and I must say, I am the one surviving the most, but to be honest, Agony is a bitch and will exterminate you no matter what if you don't have resistance, Dodging agony attacks is the key or good timing of RF. I love RF, I always think is the best Guardian Elite Skill, but let be honest, I am really happy with this build and so far is the best one I have tried. Now, I am in the quest of getting an ascended back item, but what do you think is the better option?

@Venyarth about the Karka Shell, you can buy a second one (cost 1000 Karka Shells) from a merchant before entering the nest, where the siege weapons are. But I think this is good for MF gear more than for this build.

Edited by malevolence, 23 November 2012 - 03:05 PM.


#74 Venyarth

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 05:08 PM

View Postmalevolence, on 23 November 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:


@Venyarth about the Karka Shell, you can buy a second one (cost 1000 Karka Shells) from a merchant before entering the nest, where the siege weapons are. But I think this is good for MF gear more than for this build.

I did not know that. Thank you for passing that information along.  After struggling to integrate the Karka Shell into my build, I'm pretty much come to your same conclusion about using it (that is, I'm not going to).

Also, congratulations on your reaching FoTM level 12! it is great to hear the build is working out for you there, and I appreciate your feedback.

My static group hasn't been online enough for me to get deep into FoTM, but what I have done in there has been absolutely fun.  Nothing beats the feeling of knowing you have an emergency survival button that you can hit every 90 seconds.

#75 stenwolf

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:10 PM

I'm currently trying this build right now and I'm kind of struggling with the condition damage received from mobs. I used to run with soldiers runes so I can remove them easily. In this build I can only use the elite skill once every 90 secs, and I can't control purity or the signet. Most of the time I die because I cant get rid of those cond dmg. Any tips on that please? Thank you!

#76 KrayZ33

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:13 AM

doesn't GS 4 + any whirl combo work?

#77 farkov47

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:49 AM

A guardian crying about condition removal doesn't understand how Pure of Voice works.
Anyways, I use the same build, but 5 points from Radiance and 5 on Virtue.
The free Boon from Vritue activation is too good to miss.
And I use Shelter instead of Signet of Resolve.

Edited by farkov47, 29 November 2012 - 05:58 AM.


#78 Venyarth

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 03:25 PM

View Poststenwolf, on 28 November 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

I'm currently trying this build right now and I'm kind of struggling with the condition damage received from mobs. I used to run with soldiers runes so I can remove them easily. In this build I can only use the elite skill once every 90 secs, and I can't control purity or the signet. Most of the time I die because I cant get rid of those cond dmg. Any tips on that please? Thank you!

I don't have any problems with condition damage on me, but I might be fighting different things then you. Where/what are you fighting?

Anyways, some general suggestions:

1)  Outheal the incoming damage. This build is an incredible self-healing machine.  Even under the worst mob conditions (4+ on me) I infrequently drop below 1/2 health if I am swinging my GS at mobs.  Almost everytime you swing your greatsword, you are healing. The more mobs you hit at once, the more heals you do, so the self heal scales up with the number of mobs you are attacking.  

Position yourself so that even your "1" key on GS will hit 2-3 mobs.  The crits will heal you, and the 3rd swing in that sequence is a guaranteed heal because of the might boon (and a double self-heal if it crits, and it's multiplied by the # of mobs you hit)  It's counterintuitive for MMO veterans, but when you are at low hp, a lot of times (most times?) your best option is not to run, but to dive into the fray (I recommend Leap of Faith, so that foes are blind and their next hit misses) and start swinging.

Example of healing through damage is Sorrow's Embrace Path 1 pre-patch (not necessarily condition damage, but a great example of constant small inbound damage with annoying interrupts).  If I ran away from the constant spawns at the start, trying to avoid damage, not attacking full time (or at range), I lived maybe 30s.  If I dived in and kept swinging (especially with allies in range to get my auto boons/greater self-heals), I could live pretty much indefinitely.

If there are no mobs left to swing at:

Another way to control self-heal is to use "Save Yourselves" for the buffs, and then dodge/roll as much as you can (and the dodge/endurance time regens faster with all the buffs, you should get 3 in about 4 seconds).  Remember, everytime you dodge/roll you self-heal.  

In fact, in situations where you feel really "fragile" you can use/spare one dodge/evade almost on rotation for the self-heal, even if not needed to avoid big damage.  Keep one of the 2 up for emergencies, but use the other one often.  Once you get to know the mobs/bosses, you can keep both "double evades" ready to give you more margin of error on the big boss hits.

One more powerful controlled self-heal: Switch to your staff and hit Empower "4" skill - that gives tons of continuous self heal for 3s, especially with allies around.

2)  You have two passive condition removals every 10 seconds.  I have not confirmed this scientifically, but it looks like they both remove on the same 10 second mark.  At any given time, you only need to stay alive for at most 9 seconds against condition damage, judge your fights/active heals, etc. accordingly.

3) Related to #2, keep your health above 1/2 at all times as buffer to absorb conditions for 9s until it gets auto-removed - especially if there are no mobs left to swing at.  Your big controlled heal/Signet of Resolve is on a really short cooldown of 32s.  If you are near half health (heck even at 75% full health) and the skill is up, use it.  You can live 32s until it's available again using the myriad other tools at your disposal.

Think of Signet of Resolve as a first action/part of your rotation, not an emergency or last resort use.  That is why the build has the 10 pt trait to reduce it's CD by 20%.  If you aren't using the signet when it's up, you are wasting that trait (might as well go 5 in Virtues), and missing a big part of the self-heal system that will keep you alive.

**EDIT: Using Signet of Resolve also triggers the Lyssa 4 Rune power "receive a random boon when using a healing skill".  While you can't count on knowing 'which" boon you get, you might get regen, protection - any of them might be very useful in the right circumstances. Worse case, you still get a self-heal from the boon. The random boon granted is another good reason to use Signet of Resolve as often as possible.

Swinging GS is your first use self-heal.  Signet is your second "go-to".  Staff/Empower is your 3rd to last resort for controlled self-heals, Virtue of Resolve is your second to last resort, and Renewed Focus is the last resort (with another reset Virtue of Resolve as your last gasp heal).

Note that 1, 2, and 3 used in combination has been way more than sufficient for me to not even worry about condition damage in PvE.

4) I read elsewhere (but have not confirmed nor disproved it yet myself), that after you enter a zone, if you take out the signet or the trait (not both), and then slot it back in, you would get it into a random slot and not the same 10s "pulse" as the other (unless it randomly put it back there).  Again - just a rumor I heard.  I don't have condition removal issues, so I haven't tried this out, and it seems too much a hassle for me to do every time you switch zones, if it did work.

Edited by Venyarth, 30 November 2012 - 09:58 AM.


#79 indure

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:22 PM

View Poststenwolf, on 28 November 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

I'm currently trying this build right now and I'm kind of struggling with the condition damage received from mobs. I used to run with soldiers runes so I can remove them easily. In this build I can only use the elite skill once every 90 secs, and I can't control purity or the signet. Most of the time I die because I cant get rid of those cond dmg. Any tips on that please? Thank you!

One of the beautiful things about going 30 points into Valor is that you can very quickly swap on the fly between an Altruistic Healing build like Venyarth uses, to a Meditation build with Meditation Mastery and Monk's Focus, then swap your utilities to Smite Condition and Contemplation of Purity. Now you still have a very tough build with lots of self healing (~2k per meditation used), and a lot of condition removal.

#80 stenwolf

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:26 PM

View PostVenyarth, on 29 November 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

~~

Thank you very much for your detailed answer. I was kind of freaking out with cond dmg since I cant remove them so I always keep the healing signet on passive. Now I know it's the wrong choice then.
Also for GS rotation I normally put down skill #4 followed by #3 then #2 for combos. Should I keep #3 for defensive use then?

#81 azurrei

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:49 PM

View Postmalevolence, on 23 November 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

@Venyarth about the Karka Shell, you can buy a second one (cost 1000 Karka Shells) from a merchant before entering the nest, where the siege weapons are. But I think this is good for MF gear more than for this build.

the Karka Shell are unique - you can only equip one of them

Edited by azurrei, 29 November 2012 - 10:49 PM.


#82 Venyarth

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 09:26 AM

View Poststenwolf, on 29 November 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

Thank you very much for your detailed answer. I was kind of freaking out with cond dmg since I cant remove them so I always keep the healing signet on passive. Now I know it's the wrong choice then.
Also for GS rotation I normally put down skill #4 followed by #3 then #2 for combos. Should I keep #3 for defensive use then?

The beauty of Guardian GS is the wide variety of self-combos you can use.  Thus, there is no "always use" rotation, but rather a set of different combos you could use depending on the exact situation. This actually makes gameplay more fun for me, because it's not always the same old button sequence. I actually have to think ahead and plan a little bit (should I save this skill CD to combo, or just spam it for it's direct effect immediately?).
  • Need to cleanse your allies of conditions?  Use #4 (Symbol of Wrath), and #2 (Whirling Wrath), with #5 (Binding Blade) as last ditch
  • Lots of mobs hitting you? Use #4 with #3 (Leap of Faith), to add retaliation to yourself
  • Need to go slightly more defensive for a few seconds? Dodge/Evade away (self-heals, moves you out of mob melee range for a second), followed immediately by #3 (Leap of Faith) to blind mobs where you land, giving you a few seconds unharmed do do damage (#1 auto-attack chain or #2 if available) - with more selfheals if you crit.
I usually pop Symbol of Wrath everytime it's up.  I will think ahead of whether I want #2 or #3 as my combo with the Symbol of Wrath, and if necessary, I will not fire one of them for up to 2 secs to combo them with #4.  (But the other one I will fire when it's cooled down).  usually it's the #2 Whirling Wrath that I combo, especially since it has half the cooldown of the Symbol (meaning roughly every other use of Whirling Wrath, if spammed when CD is up, should coincide with the symbol)

In the middle of a long fight I spam Leap of Faith every time it is ready (unless I need to save it as a gap closer to a mob), as it's primary purpose for me is to blind and thus take no damage for one hit. In general (but not always) this is better in more situations than retaliation, where you need to get hit to deal damage back.

Also note that since the Leap of Faith/Light field combo blinds as the retaliation is activated, the next enemy hit will miss, while the 5s retaliation boon ticks away, so you never really get "full" use of the retaliation combo boon.  Of course, against mobs immune to blind, Leap of Faith changes it's primary benefit to being a gap closer and retaliation buffer.

I also usually spam Binding Blade (wihout pull) as an AoE DoT add when it's up, unless I need to save it for an AoE pull to cluster mobs for #2 skill and #1 skill AoE crit self-heal spam.

Lastly - don't forget that using the #6 healing skill, (Signet of Resolve in my build), triggers the Lyssa rune benefit that gives you a random boon.  This could be something that saves your life, or makes it easier.  At the very least, you get the additional self-heal from applying a boon.  One more reason to practically spam that Signet.

Edited by Venyarth, 30 November 2012 - 09:57 AM.


#83 Venyarth

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 09:38 AM

View Postazurrei, on 29 November 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

the Karka Shell are unique - you can only equip one of them

True point and good to bring up.

I noticed that the instant I got mine, as I had an idea to take my main onto a different overflow server to finish the Event there and get a second one.  But then I saw the "unique" attribute on the shell.... :)

However, I had several friends who missed the Event, and I'm glad they (and everyone else) have some way to get the Shell.

It also makes me optimistic that if I missed some other one-time only future event with reward like this - that ArenaNet would likely do the same thing again and give an alternate means of acquiring said item.

View Postindure, on 29 November 2012 - 06:22 PM, said:

One of the beautiful things about going 30 points into Valor is that you can very quickly swap on the fly between an Altruistic Healing build like Venyarth uses, to a Meditation build with Meditation Mastery and Monk's Focus, then swap your utilities to Smite Condition and Contemplation of Purity. Now you still have a very tough build with lots of self healing (~2k per meditation used), and a lot of condition removal.

This is truly beautiful - and thank you for pointing this out.

Versatility of the class, and easy "on the fly" changing (as long as you are out of combat) for specific situations, makes Guardian gameplay very fresh and dynamic.

Edited by Venyarth, 30 November 2012 - 09:34 AM.


#84 heatrr

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 05:11 PM

Sigil of Perception will work out better than sigil of accuracy on GS.

#85 wp2000

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 05:48 PM

Will going power toughness vitality armor sacrifice too much damage?  Is one piece the limit?

#86 heatrr

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 05:54 PM

View PostVenyarth, on 07 November 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

Mango Pie is incredible though, and very much adds to the self-heal synergy.  it gives 700hp, so nearly equal to the Plate of Lemongrass Poultry there. And of course, it has a heal over time. 88hp per second according to the wiki. That is flat out insane.

It ends up being a tradeoff decision of having more defense/healing with the Pie, vs having a slightly more hp buffer and some interesting, albeit not overly consequential offensive/playstyle options with the Poultry.  Is 88hp/s constant heal worth more than 200 power when less than 50% health? Many people would say "yes".

Thanks you for bringing this food to my attention! I had my source make me a bunch of Mango Pie to cart around in my bags after seeing this. In fact, she is switching her Guardian to full time Mango Pie, I'm probably going to join her :)

Also, instead of superior sharpening stones (currently buy at 3S 16B) consider a cheaper equivalent in Master Maintenance Oil (currently buy at 2S 10B).

I have found great value in also using Loaves of Omnom Bread and Omnom Ghosts vs. Mango Pie (not to say that Mango Pie is not very, very useful).

#87 matsif

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 07:18 PM

View Postwp2000, on 02 December 2012 - 05:48 PM, said:

Will going power toughness vitality armor sacrifice too much damage?  Is one piece the limit?

you want a good crit rate, so if through your jewels you are still getting ~40% or more crit rate, then yes its fine.  but if you can't get above 40%, you're losing out on that extra heal on a crit from getting vigor.

I don't have full knights armor.  I have a mix with some pow/vit/tou, some prec/tou/cond, couple of other things cause its a mix of dungeon armors, and with my jewels I have a 48% crit rate at level 80 with no consumables.

#88 soxx

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:57 PM

Love this build.

#89 Dertz

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:29 AM

View Postheatrr, on 02 December 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

Also, instead of superior sharpening stones (currently buy at 3S 16B) consider a cheaper equivalent in Master Maintenance Oil (currently buy at 2S 10B).

I have found great value in also using Loaves of Omnom Bread and Omnom Ghosts vs. Mango Pie (not to say that Mango Pie is not very, very useful).

Just to let you know. Master Maintenance Oil has a tooltip error. It gives precision, not power. Note that it is supposed to give precision as there is already something (stones) that gives power as a % of x.

By the way, that oil gives you a ton of crit if you have high toughness. Right now it gives me about 9% more crit chance. My crit chance might be too high right now. Not sure what the diminishing returns are on it. Also, has anyone tested damage reduction stacking? I tried briefly for a bit earlier but it was using a random mob on what I thought was a constant damage attack, but I'm not sure.

Try getting attacked with 0% dmg reduction. Then get attacked using protection (33% dmg reduction). Then get attacked while having protection on you and having signet of judgment on ur bar (43% dmg reduction if it stacks like that). Finally, get attacked while having protection, signet of judgment, and a powerful potion of x slaying for a total of 53% damage reduction supposedly if they all stack without diminishing returns.

Based on my brief tests earlier, I got hit for 402 (pretty constant, had 1 that was 404) by a risen corrupter's cone of corruption with 0% damage reduction. I got hit for 269 (5 times in a row) by the same attack with protection up (33% reduction). 402 x 67% = 270, close enough. But when I added signet of judgment's 10% reduction on top of protection, I got hit for 252. 402 x 57% = 229. Or if calculated as 33% of 402 and then 10% of 270, it would be 242. So based on that brief test, damage reduction has diminishing returns after 33% so 10% from the signet isn't exactly 10% when you have protection up, it's more like 5%. Anyways, someone else please test this as I'm not sure that was the best way to do so.

#90 matsif

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:51 PM

my findings thus far (with mango pie and sharpening stones, greatsword, 48% crit chance, different mixture of armor than full knights):

I'm finding that solo or against a boss when my party is more spread out, I'm having a hard time healing enough to stay sitting there with my GS.  I have to roll out and use empower almost on recharge sometimes.  There is definitely an almost requirement of this build to get 3-4 mobs on you for it to heal enough.  Breeders and burrows in AC are nice because hitting GS2 heals on like almost every strike from hatchlings, but up against colossus rumbulus when he focused on me I couldn't stay next to him, which I can on my shout heals hammer warrior.

However, when my whole party was in close (subject alpha in CoE), I never went below 75% hp while my party was at 35%-30% for most of the fight.  GS4, spamming hold the line and signet of judgement gave me enough heals that I didn't have to pop an empower, didn't have to use elite, didn't even have to use save yourselves.  Actually the build held up very well in CoE as the party I ran with had a thief, 2 sword mesmers and a flamethrower engineer that all stayed relatively close to me, giving me much better heals from SoJ and HtL.  Definitely shines in very coordinated group play with a lot of short-range attackers.  

Think I'm gonna pick up a hammer and give it a shot to see what happens.  damage output will probably be a bit lower, but I think the extra protection over might from auto attack 3 with a similar crit rate will give me that little extra bit of survivability that I want.  Although this might backfire as the hammer attack speed is lower, so I would crit less often, so I'd lose out on the vigor on crit heals.




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