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"Guardian of Lyssa" build. Unkillable self-healer w/ great DPS.

guardian rune of lyssa self-heal altruistic healing empowering might 2h mastery renewed focus tank

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#91 Venyarth

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:03 PM

View Postmatsif, on 04 December 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

my findings thus far (with mango pie and sharpening stones, greatsword, 48% crit chance, different mixture of armor than full knights):

I'm finding that solo or against a boss when my party is more spread out, I'm having a hard time healing enough to stay sitting there with my GS.  I have to roll out and use empower almost on recharge sometimes.  There is definitely an almost requirement of this build to get 3-4 mobs on you for it to heal enough.  Breeders and burrows in AC are nice because hitting GS2 heals on like almost every strike from hatchlings, but up against colossus rumbulus when he focused on me I couldn't stay next to him, which I can on my shout heals hammer warrior.

However, when my whole party was in close (subject alpha in CoE), I never went below 75% hp while my party was at 35%-30% for most of the fight.  GS4, spamming hold the line and signet of judgement gave me enough heals that I didn't have to pop an empower, didn't have to use elite, didn't even have to use save yourselves.  Actually the build held up very well in CoE as the party I ran with had a thief, 2 sword mesmers and a flamethrower engineer that all stayed relatively close to me, giving me much better heals from SoJ and HtL.  Definitely shines in very coordinated group play with a lot of short-range attackers.  

Think I'm gonna pick up a hammer and give it a shot to see what happens.  damage output will probably be a bit lower, but I think the extra protection over might from auto attack 3 with a similar crit rate will give me that little extra bit of survivability that I want.  Although this might backfire as the hammer attack speed is lower, so I would crit less often, so I'd lose out on the vigor on crit heals.

Excellent write up and great feedback.  You pretty much summed up the relative strengths/weaknesses of the build, namely: the self-healing scales with the number of mobs and/or allies near you (or both, to get the max effect), and as in any other game/RPG, anytime you can get a multiplier effect like this, you should take advantage of it.

This is of course a two-way street, and the buiild is weakest when solo against one mob as you note.

I just fought the AC bosses again a couple nights ago, and just like you, when up solo against the final bosses in Path 1 and 3, I have to stay on my toes and dodge/roll + empower often.  On the other hand, it is SO much fun diving into the hordes of mobs prior to the end, and staying alive in a space where others fear to tread.

To me, this gives me a great variety (and thus more varied fun) on fights.  Sometimes you have to roll/staff empower, and tactically manage your health for a 1:1 win through positioning and timing - other times you get to (need to?) stand there as an unstoppable hero in the middle of a host of enemies and brute force your way through.

Both are fun - and different enough for me to keep things from being exactly similar with every encounter.  Fortunately, in GW2, there are plenty of encounters where there are lots of enemies attacking you at once - some of the Fractal instances are insane (in a fun way) in this regard, with 10+ enemies swarming you.

P.S. I, like many others following this thread, am looking forward to some Hammer feedback.  I can't seem to rip myself away from my GS long enough to give Hammer a worthy test.  So many others have asked though, that the curiosity will get the better of me and my GS....  Thanks for posting!

Edited by Venyarth, 04 December 2012 - 06:57 PM.


#92 wolfpaq777

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:50 PM

Can't really comment on the build yet as I'm still leveling my guardian, but I can say having swapped extensively between greatsword and hammer that I like hammer more.  A lot more.  In addition to nice protection uptime, mighty blow >>> whirling wrath.  Half the cooldown, more consistent damage (ww frequently says MISS MISS MISS MISS, even on enemies I'm near), more frequent combo finishers plus blast > whirl/leap for almost every field since it applies group boons which is what we want to do right?  It works especially well when you get the 20% 2h weapon cooldown reduction worked into your build as you can basically use it every auto attack sequence for the self combo, giving you (and anyone near you) 2 boons just from auto attack & mighty blow.  I haven't gotten AH yet, but I am anticipating that this is very useful.

DPS wise it might be a little bit behind greatsword, this build isn't about minmaxing dps.  I'm looking forward to leveling more and trying this build.

edit: forgot to say thank you for making this post.  This post combined with the Ah + hammer sticky on the official boards is what got me excited about rolling guardian and I'm having a blast so far (and I haven't even unlocked AH yet!)

Edited by wolfpaq777, 04 December 2012 - 05:54 PM.


#93 farkov47

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:33 AM

The GS works like a trash mob magnet.
In instances where there's 3-5 trash split apart, it's more efficient for GS users to Bind Blade > Pull and let the rest of the team Warrior, Elementalist have a field day in one circle of AoE.

#94 Dasryn

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:59 AM

ive switched to this build, ran AC story mode, only went down once on the lovers cuz folks didnt know the fight.  ive changed the skills though to suit my play style:


dont look at the traits, im traiting just like your build but im using "Hold the Line!" and "Retreat!" instead of Signet of Judgement and "Save Yourselves!".

im using hold the line because of support  purposes, i like adding protection and regen to the team, its the tank in me

im using retreat because honestly, that aegis application is serious business.  a lot of these bosses hit really hard, so hard, you dont really want to take just one hit even.  aegis is a lifesaver.  it not only blocks an attack, but it ignores any condition that attack may apply like a knockdown or something.

and im using hammer instead of staff - you said this was kinda optional to your build anyway as it was personal preference for you to use the staff right?  idk, i tried the staff and i just didnt feel useful at all, at least with the hammer i can switch to it when all my GS skills are on CD and still be able to DPS hard.

anyway feel free to comment, all in all, this is a great guide, looks like you put a lot of time and effort into it and i am very appreciative, thank you OP!

Edited by Rickter, 05 December 2012 - 12:01 PM.


#95 matsif

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:18 PM

View PostRickter, on 05 December 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

and im using hammer instead of staff - you said this was kinda optional to your build anyway as it was personal preference for you to use the staff right?  idk, i tried the staff and i just didnt feel useful at all, at least with the hammer i can switch to it when all my GS skills are on CD and still be able to DPS hard.

the benefit of the staff isn't for DPS, its for a huge heal from empower.  Assuming you get a whole party effected, thats 60 heals from AH in a few seconds (12 stacks of might * 5 players), plus extra might for your whole party for a few hits and a party-wide heal.  So yes, its 6 seconds or whatever (after empower) while you wait for weapon switch where your DPS is a lot lower, but the heal from it is something else entirely.  I don't know of a single more powerful self heal in the game than popping empower with AH.

Edited by matsif, 05 December 2012 - 12:20 PM.


#96 Vesnik

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:51 PM

So how does everyone like this build while running Arah, does anything need to be adjusted for this particular dungeon?

I ran it last night with the guild, we don't have a lot of experience in Arah yet so it was kind of a learning curve for us all. I understand Arah is pretty much about staying alive, doing damage is not as important as much as it is in other dungeons. This build/play style obviously is one of, if not the best for survivability WHILE also doing great damage.

I'm just wondering if there's anything I can tweak specifically for this dungeon, to max the survivability. Though it's hard for me to think about anything to switch out for survivability without losing too much crit chance, as that's the whole key to staying alive with this build. I'm currently at 48% crit chance, I suppose I could drop down to 40% and still be okay. However I'm wondering what to switch out specifically. I'm considering a mace/focus or even a mace/shield (along with staff as secondary, obviously). I know shield is fairly crappy for Guardians, though I like the idea of using one. I suppose hammer is also a good choice, with the protection/CC and all. However I still feel like a shield or focus would provide the best protection.

Also, I'm thinking Cleric's or Knight's in these particular items, maybe even Pow/Tough/Vit, seeing as when switching to these the whole idea is survivability.

What do you guy's think?

Edited by Vesnik, 05 December 2012 - 05:01 PM.


#97 Zhaitan

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:20 PM

View PostVesnik, on 05 December 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

So how does everyone like this build while running Arah, does anything need to be adjusted for this particular dungeon?

What do you guy's think?

I think the OP will be able to give you much better response to your question but, this is what I do in Arah w/ the guard.

I swap the hydromancy staff w/ sigil of energy staff and instead of mango pie or lemongrass food, I eat Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew. This helps me tremendously while fighting that Lipicus mob. I also switch to "retreat" instead of "save yourselves".

Also, I have  a Soldier's Armor set w/ soldier runes and switch to that some times. But, in general, I stay w/ Knight's and Lyssa at 50% crit. I think, Soldier's is better for that particular boss as you move from dps mode to full support/EM mode in that fight if you have decent dps in the team.

Edited by Zhaitan, 05 December 2012 - 06:23 PM.


#98 Vagrant

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:42 AM

wow...the amount of synergy and intricacy with the guardian's traits and skills amazes me.  I am ready to ditch my ranger (even though I've invested ~450 hours) to finish leveling my guardian.

#99 malevolence

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:38 PM

Just to report, I am currently playing FotM levels 20+ with +15 Agony Resistance. With the new ascended rings + back item + consumables, I easily reach 72% Crit Chance (with Fury)  and 61% Crit Damage, this build is a beast in FotM like this, and having the 66% chance to steal life on critical makes me a walking tank. I can even solo some bosses.

What I Have right now:

-Prototype Fractal Capacitor (Ascended, Defensive version):
+56 Power
+35 Precision
+5% Crit Damage
+5 Agony Resist. (Simple Infusion - Defensive infusion from FotM vendor)

-Red Ring of Death:
+103 Power
+73 Precision
+8% Crit Damage
+5 Agony Resist. (Offensive Infusion: Precise Infusion that give me the extra +5 Precision)

-Snaff Gyre (Ring, it only temorary for the +5 Agony infusion, I am planning to change this ring for the other ring exactly similar to Red Ring of Death):
+68 Power
+68 Precision
+10% Magic Find (meh)
+5 Agony Resist. (Simple Infusion - Defensive infusion from FotM vendor).

What can I say, I am in love with my Guardian right now haha, I can walk Orr killing everything in mass numbers without receiving a scratch, it so easy, but of course, champions are champions, and they can take you down, other than that is perfect.

Edited by malevolence, 07 December 2012 - 01:43 PM.


#100 Sovelin

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:11 AM

I was just a little curious about your choice in staff (Vit, Heal, Condition). Is the vitality stat necessary on the staff? You switch to the staff because you are low on health (let's say for example you are down to 2k health). Even though your max health with the staff is higher, you will still be at 2k health when you switch. And once fully healed, you switch back to the GS, losing the extra health from the Vit boost on the staff. Is there something that I'm missing?

#101 Dasryn

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:58 AM

View PostSovelin, on 09 December 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

I was just a little curious about your choice in staff (Vit, Heal, Condition). Is the vitality stat necessary on the staff? You switch to the staff because you are low on health (let's say for example you are down to 2k health). Even though your max health with the staff is higher, you will still be at 2k health when you switch. And once fully healed, you switch back to the GS, losing the extra health from the Vit boost on the staff. Is there something that I'm missing?

the staff give empower which is apparently near vital to a group?

#102 Venyarth

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:26 PM

View PostSovelin, on 09 December 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

I was just a little curious about your choice in staff (Vit, Heal, Condition). Is the vitality stat necessary on the staff? You switch to the staff because you are low on health (let's say for example you are down to 2k health). Even though your max health with the staff is higher, you will still be at 2k health when you switch. And once fully healed, you switch back to the GS, losing the extra health from the Vit boost on the staff. Is there something that I'm missing?

I chose vitality on the staff because it seemed to me the best of the options available given what the staff is used for - specifically 1) healing during a fight and staying alive, 2) run speed buff while running/training through mobs (handy everywhere, including certain Fractals dungeons)

You are right about #1, the only difference the staff makes is an extra 2K health only after you are max healed, and even that goes away when you switch back to GS.  The assumption was, if I was switched to staff, my main concern is staying alive, not doing damage (although you can range damage a bit).

The extra Healing power has a 1:1 effect on dodge roll/evade healing, so that's a nice bonus, and also the signet heal with Staff equipped is maximized - both in terms of healing done, and the ability to absorb what might have been "overheal" - although again, this last part only useful until you switch back to GS.  In world fights such as Jormag, I've often found myself fully healed from Empower, and hung on to the Staff and those extra HP's for a bit while rolling out of the ice waves, etc.

I don't have nearly the attack skills/quanitity on Staff as I do with GS, so self heal due to combat is going to be less - the big heal is the staff Empower, and after that it's all about staying alive for 6s until you can swap back to GS and really hit things/self-heal throgh Altrusitc Healing + Empowering Might.  

When I am doing semi-constant range damage (e.g. certain situations in Fractals like the Harpies on the jumping section), I feel sturdier with the extra health, as opposed to some other stat boost giving a meager bump on an already small ranged attack damage. Ranged damage is not the strong suit with this build, or Guardian in general, so I didn't feel much benefit in buffing it.

For #2, the vitality is an extra safety buffer, because again, I'm not looking to deal damage - just running through some mobs and staying alive through the occassional root/snare/beatdown.  In these situations I usually start with full health, so the extra 2K actually does come into play.

Your post has gotten me to thinking about it some more (how often has that extra 2K health really saved me?)....  Staff is such a secondary weapon that I don't give it too much thought.  Thanks for posting!

Edited by Venyarth, 10 December 2012 - 02:56 PM.


#103 Venyarth

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:45 PM

View Postmalevolence, on 07 December 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Just to report, I am currently playing FotM levels 20+ with +15 Agony Resistance. With the new ascended rings + back item + consumables, I easily reach 72% Crit Chance (with Fury)  and 61% Crit Damage, this build is a beast in FotM like this, and having the 66% chance to steal life on critical makes me a walking tank. I can even solo some bosses.

What I Have right now:

-Prototype Fractal Capacitor (Ascended, Defensive version):
+56 Power
+35 Precision
+5% Crit Damage
+5 Agony Resist. (Simple Infusion - Defensive infusion from FotM vendor)

-Red Ring of Death:
+103 Power
+73 Precision
+8% Crit Damage
+5 Agony Resist. (Offensive Infusion: Precise Infusion that give me the extra +5 Precision)

-Snaff Gyre (Ring, it only temorary for the +5 Agony infusion, I am planning to change this ring for the other ring exactly similar to Red Ring of Death):
+68 Power
+68 Precision
+10% Magic Find (meh)
+5 Agony Resist. (Simple Infusion - Defensive infusion from FotM vendor).

What can I say, I am in love with my Guardian right now haha, I can walk Orr killing everything in mass numbers without receiving a scratch, it so easy, but of course, champions are champions, and they can take you down, other than that is perfect.

Thank you for this report, and congratulations on FOTM 20 as well as the nice gear.  I'm looking forward to acquiring some myself, and it's great hearing that the build stands up well at Scale 20+.

I'm only at FOTM Scale 10 myself because of the disconnect issues. It seems like a different person DC's every night on the 2nd or 3rd instance of the 3/level - very frustrating. We have thus 4 manned many of the bosses, but then we have to restart the Difficulty Scale because we won't leave anyone behind.  It will be much less aggrevating after ArenaNet patches this so DC'd people can enter back into the Fractal.

Edited by Venyarth, 10 December 2012 - 02:47 PM.


#104 Venyarth

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:23 PM

View Postmalevolence, on 07 December 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

What can I say, I am in love with my Guardian right now haha, I can walk Orr killing everything in mass numbers without receiving a scratch, it so easy, but of course, champions are champions, and they can take you down, other than that is perfect.

Speaking of Orr and Champions, not all Champions are created equal, and some can be taken out solo or in very small numbers.

I've been able to solo the Champion Risen Knight in the dynamic defense event at Union Waypoint in the Cathedral of Lyssa.  At no point was he able to get more than 2 walls up (and only for a few seconds as I finished destroying the other wall).

Another Guardian friend (with similar build) and I duo'd the Champion at the end of the Winterknell Labyrinth maze in Cursed Shore.  That fight took so long that the general trash mobs nearby him respawned during the fight (as well as the usual add spawns the Champion summons).

Also, that same Guardian, myself, and an Elementalist trio'd the dynamic event Champion Eye in the Reliquary Vault/Inscribed Casket (Azabe Qazar, Royal Tombs) in Cursed Shore.  That was a close fight, and on two occassions only one of us was alive with under 200 health, but we managed to rez up and kill it off...barely.

I would be curious to hear what other Orr Champions have been successfully vanquished with this build, solo or in small numbers.  I was able to duo the Champion Risen Priestess + adds in the Altar of Tempests (Cathedral of Zephyrs/Dwayna) down to 30% with my Guardian friend, then I messed up and we wiped....

#105 Its Kharscal

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 05:36 PM

Thanks for this wonderful thread, made up my mind considering my traits ;)
But still i'm a little confused about what to choose when it comes choosing the right runes, and for that matter ring(s)..

Right now my stats are as follow:

Power: 1,834
Precision: 1,387
Toughness: 1,711
Vitality: 1,548

Attack: 2,934
Critical Chance 26% and Critical Damage 61%
Armor: 2,922
Health: 17,125 (17,810 w/ GS)

As for the equipment, i use:
  • Earring: Beryl Orich Earring of the Valkyrie (power, vit, crit.)
  • Ring 1: Ruby Orich Ring of the Berserker (power, precision, crit damage)
  • Ring 2: Rurik's Royal Signet Ring (power, toughness, crit damage)
  • Amulet: Ruby Orich Amulet of the Berserker (power, precison, crit damage)
  • Ancient Karka Shell of the Knight
And for gear i use AC heavy armor (power, toughness, vit.)

So my question is.. with my char. as it is now, i don't know if i should go for the Soldier Runes, or if i already might have "enough" of the tougness and vitality? Or if i should go for another combination of runes? (any good examples?).. I'm going for a high DPS build, so i dont know if i should focus on the precision and crit. damage?

And btw. in the future i will be aiming for basically the same rings etc. as malevolence:

-Prototype Fractal Capacitor (Ascended, Defensive version):
+56 Power
+35 Precision
+5% Crit Damage
+5 Agony Resist. (Simple Infusion - Defensive infusion from FotM vendor)

-Red Ring of Death:
+103 Power
+73 Precision
+8% Crit Damage
+5 Agony Resist. (Offensive Infusion: Precise Infusion that give me the extra +5 Precision)

- Vine of the Pale Tree
+104 Power
+ 51 Precision
+ 8% Crit. Damage
+ 18 Vitality
+5 Agony Resist.

So from all that, which runes would be the best to go for? more tougness/vitality or going for something else - maybe keeping the Rurik's Royal Signet Ring?

Hoping for some help!

#106 malevolence

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 06:06 PM

View PostIts Kharscal, on 10 December 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

So my question is.. with my char. as it is now, i don't know if i should go for the Soldier Runes, or if i already might have "enough" of the tougness and vitality? Or if i should go for another combination of runes? (any good examples?).. I'm going for a high DPS build, so i dont know if i should focus on the precision and crit. damage?

So from all that, which runes would be the best to go for? more tougness/vitality or going for something else - maybe keeping the Rurik's Royal Signet Ring?

Hoping for some help!

It all comes down to what you want to achieve, if your goal is high DPS, you should focus on precision and crit damage, I would say more on Precision than Crit. Damage actually, the higher the chance the more damage you will make per second. The important stuff is the "on critical" consumables,  because with that high chance you will be activating them almost always, and the food with 66% chance to steal life on critical doesn't have cooldown, so as long as you crit hit, you will get the bonus.

I have almost the same stats than you (also armor wise), and I didn't bother reaching 30k armor, 29k was just fine for me. Also your Vitality is good enough, I have even a bit less, but as I say, with the consumables you can keep your hp and even make it full in a matter of seconds. I will, with no doubt, go with another precision + Crit. damage ring (similar to the Red Ring of Death).

About the Soldier Runes (I had the Soldier Runes before), I changed for Lyssa to make the Elite skill more effective, and I didn't miss the condition removal from the Soldier Runes, with the Traits (1 condition removal every 10 second) and the healing skill signet (another 10 seconds condition removal) is enough for me.

But as I said, it comes down what you want to achieve, and of course what you like and feel comfortable with.

View PostSovelin, on 09 December 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

I was just a little curious about your choice in staff (Vit, Heal, Condition). Is the vitality stat necessary on the staff? You switch to the staff because you are low on health (let's say for example you are down to 2k health). Even though your max health with the staff is higher, you will still be at 2k health when you switch. And once fully healed, you switch back to the GS, losing the extra health from the Vit boost on the staff. Is there something that I'm missing?

About the staff, I think the best staff is the one with higher Healing Power. Healing Power boosts Empower healing (for you and your team) and of course, all your healing skills and dodging.


View PostVenyarth, on 10 December 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

Speaking of Orr and Champions, not all Champions are created equal, and some can be taken out solo....

Yes there are many champions that can be taken out solo, but there is a particular one that I hate, really, since I reached Orr, this champion was bugging me :P Is the one saving a grand chest, west of Lyssa Temple, and with 4 veterans on the way. I can ball up all the veterans + adds and kill them all in seconds, and the champion, I can kill his team twice (because they respawn), but he always kills me at the end,when he is with less than 40% health. I swear, one day, he will pay :P

Edited by malevolence, 10 December 2012 - 06:16 PM.


#107 Sovelin

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:02 PM

Thanks for the reply! Hearing your reasoning the vitality bonus makes sense. About food choices, what do you think about Omnomberry pie? You lose 70 vitality, but since you already crit so often, do you think this would help keep your health up effectively? Especially if used with maintenance oil over sharpening stones.

Some calculations based on just theory, not actual testing:
If you crit 50% of the time (every other swing), then you should crit 3 times in 6 swings.
6 swings of the GS take 3 seconds.
You steal life on 2 of those crits at 325 health per hit (total 650 healed, and 650 dmg given)
In the same 3 seconds, Mango pie would heal 264hp, and deal 0 dmg.

Edited by Sovelin, 10 December 2012 - 09:11 PM.


#108 Its Kharscal

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:13 PM

View Postmalevolence, on 10 December 2012 - 06:06 PM, said:

It all comes down to what you want to achieve, if your goal is high DPS, you should focus on precision and crit damage, I would say more on Precision than Crit. Damage actually, the higher the chance the more damage you will make per second. The important stuff is the "on critical" consumables,  because with that high chance you will be activating them almost always, and the food with 66% chance to steal life on critical doesn't have cooldown, so as long as you crit hit, you will get the bonus.

I have almost the same stats than you (also armor wise), and I didn't bother reaching 30k armor, 29k was just fine for me. Also your Vitality is good enough, I have even a bit less, but as I say, with the consumables you can keep your hp and even make it full in a matter of seconds. I will, with no doubt, go with another precision + Crit. damage ring (similar to the Red Ring of Death).

About the Soldier Runes (I had the Soldier Runes before), I changed for Lyssa to make the Elite skill more effective, and I didn't miss the condition removal from the Soldier Runes, with the Traits (1 condition removal every 10 second) and the healing skill signet (another 10 seconds condition removal) is enough for me.

But as I said, it comes down what you want to achieve, and of course what you like and feel comfortable with.

Yearh, i get what you are saying.. for my guardian im going maximum DPS, but also want the "survivability".. But you say you are running samme armor etc, and you don't have any problems considering healt and so? becuase if you dont then i will just go full Lyssa (or something else with precision etc.)

And when it comes to Sigils what do you use, or would recommend? And is it right that the Sigils are only active when the weapon are drawn, or can i go bloodlust on my scepter, and accuracy on my GS, and then use my GS and still having the benefits of the bloodlust or does the scepter has to be drawn?

#109 Ellayne

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:59 PM

have you ever played this build in spvp or tpvp? just playing around with the right amu/jewel-combination.

#110 Venyarth

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:47 PM

View PostSovelin, on 10 December 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

Thanks for the reply! Hearing your reasoning the vitality bonus makes sense. About food choices, what do you think about Omnomberry pie? You lose 70 vitality, but since you already crit so often, do you think this would help keep your health up effectively? Especially if used with maintenance oil over sharpening stones.

Some calculations based on just theory, not actual testing:
If you crit 50% of the time (every other swing), then you should crit 3 times in 6 swings.
6 swings of the GS take 3 seconds.
You steal life on 2 of those crits at 325 health per hit (total 650 healed, and 650 dmg given)
In the same 3 seconds, Mango pie would heal 264hp, and deal 0 dmg.

There is another thread I found here that actually lists animation times on each of the Guardian's weapon skills, so we could calculate the swings per second from that if I can find that link. There are other variables too - like how many mobs are you hitting. You can hit 3+ even with Auto-attack/1 GS skill if you position correctly.  I think 6 swings per 3 secs is a little high, although you could certainly land way more than 6+ hits in 3 seconds with the #2 skill amongst multiple mobs - but that's only every 8 seconds plus the 2.4 sec animation time.

Overall though, the tradeoff between the Mango Pie and Omnomberry foods comes to this:

Mango Pie heals you even when you are in combat, but not "on target" - e.g. low on health rolling away from mobs, using Staff Empower, kiting, training, etc.  One could reasonably argue that this "staying away from danger/trying to survive" time is when you need healing the most, and Omnomberry will deliver close to 0 in this scenario.  Mango Pie works all the time, no matter what you are doing.

On the other hand Omnomberry heals you when you crit, and for potentially a whole lot more per second while you are swinging that GS.  One could argue that Omnomberry reduces the chances, maybe even to zero, that you'll ever be low on health in the first place (and lowering the chance you'll ever be in the situation where you'll be just rolling to stay alive and wishing you had Mango Pie on instead).

Which is preferable?  It depends on the combat situations you find yourself in and playstyle.  It also depends on the actual numbers (which have a lot of variables to take into account).

The Trade Broker would tell you Omnomberry is popular to use and in great demand, judging from the high price of the materials.

If you are rich, and quick with the mouse, you could certainly click different foods for different fights, or even in combat (that would take some serious mouse skills to do quickly).

I'm going to carry some of each (with the original Plate of Lemongrass Poultry).  If Malevlolence in an earlier post says he is doing FotM 20+ with Omnomberry, that is obviously a sign that Omnomberry works with his crit/precision focused setup :)

Mango Pie has it's uses too.  It's good to have choices :)

Edited by Venyarth, 10 December 2012 - 11:48 PM.


#111 Venyarth

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:56 PM

View PostIts Kharscal, on 10 December 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

Yearh, i get what you are saying.. for my guardian im going maximum DPS, but also want the "survivability".. But you say you are running samme armor etc, and you don't have any problems considering healt and so? becuase if you dont then i will just go full Lyssa (or something else with precision etc.)

And when it comes to Sigils what do you use, or would recommend? And is it right that the Sigils are only active when the weapon are drawn, or can i go bloodlust on my scepter, and accuracy on my GS, and then use my GS and still having the benefits of the bloodlust or does the scepter has to be drawn?

I run with about 17K health after food buff, and don't generally have problems.  I do have plenty of "heart attack" moments at 200 health, but hey - it adds to the fun, and I'm not actually downed.  I've only made FotM Scale 10 so far, but no problems whatsoever.

On the Sigils, I believe they have to be active.  If you have one weapon in each hand you can take advantage of two sigils. But any unequipped Sigil is inert.

I did find one bug (I think it's a bug) where the underwater mask, when using some of the minor runes of divinity early in my leveling, would count towards your 2/2 or whatever max numbers you could have equipped and getting bonus from.

I recommend Accuracy for 5% crit chance (does not display on character screen - known bug) on the GS.  I use Hydromancy on Staff so when I switch out, I freeze everyone nearby (the Staff is "defense mode").  I've played with the Sigil that stacks bleeds on crits.  Other than these, I'd recommend synergizing with anything that uses "on crit....", since this build specializes in precision/crit chance.

#112 Venyarth

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:11 AM

View PostEllayne, on 10 December 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

have you ever played this build in spvp or tpvp? just playing around with the right amu/jewel-combination.

Good question - probably should be discussed further in the PvP Guardian forum section, but I can briefly share my PvP experience with this build.

I actually bought GW2 for PvP ( I Love PvP), and convinced many of my online friends from other games (including members of static teams in other game's versions of sPvP) to join.  Ironically, I've found the PvE so compelling that I've yet to set foot in sPvP, although I have done lots of WvW.  I also like to use PvE to discover nuances and hidden gems in my class, before I step foot into serious PvP.  There are so many other variables in PvP vs. PvE, so breaking things down into smaller chunks has worked for me to learn a class.

WvW isn't sPvP of course, but from the 1:1 and small scale battles I've fought there, I can make a few general observations:

1) This build relies on many small, continuous hits on enemies.  PvE mobs tend to stand still and stay clumped up so this can happen.  PvP enemies tend to be hyper mobile.  It's hard to get in as many hits per second.

2) With #1 in mind, I actually take out a shout and put in Signet of Wrath (active skill, immobilize target, 1200 range, 24s CD)

3) Other posts in the PvP Guardian section will say that Tome of Courage is a game changer in sPvP, as it turns a near defeated group into full health (and you need teamwork to make sure you are not interrupted while casting).  From a team perspective, that is powerful.  Lyssa Rune + Renewed Focus is a very individual focused survival build.

There should be some better insights on good Guardian builds in the PvP sections.  If I ever spend enough time in PvP in GW2 to get enough observations to be worthy of a thread, I'll post over there. Meanwhile I'll be reading those PvP sections for other people's experiences :)

EDIT: Also, my gear set up (detailed in earlier post) would be pretty difficult to match exactly with amulet/jewel.  I've fine tuned every piece, tweaking different stats by 50-100 to get just what I wanted.  You could probably get "close enough" though.

Edited by Venyarth, 11 December 2012 - 12:12 AM.


#113 Venyarth

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:19 AM

View Postmalevolence, on 10 December 2012 - 06:06 PM, said:


About the staff, I think the best staff is the one with higher Healing Power. Healing Power boosts Empower healing (for you and your team) and of course, all your healing skills and dodging.
....
Yes there are many champions that can be taken out solo, but there is a particular one that I hate, really, since I reached Orr, this champion was bugging me :P Is the one saving a grand chest, west of Lyssa Temple, and with 4 veterans on the way. I can ball up all the veterans + adds and kill them all in seconds, and the champion, I can kill his team twice (because they respawn), but he always kills me at the end,when he is with less than 40% health. I swear, one day, he will pay :P

I might have to go with a primary Healing focused Staff after thinking about this from your reply (although mine has Vitality primary and Healing as secondary stat, so not too far off).  It was just an inexpensive exotic on the Trade Broker, so I grabbed it.
....
I remember that Champion.  Used to be a lot of gatherable Ores on that path.  My friend and I would just alternate distracting the Champion and hit/run that chest, and felt happy if we made it out alive even though we didn't seriously engage that Champion (we were not max geared yet).  If you can get it solo to 40%, that's quite a feat.

Post if you ever down him, so I can celebrate your vicotry with you - I'll have to give that one a look again. :)

#114 Dasryn

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:44 AM

idk if this particular build is being used much but the Greatsword/Staff combo is just about hte norm these days for guardians.  this build really works well.  good survivability and good dps.  

im not using it to the T however.  but its a personally preference.  i use a sword and shield and have taken up the good fight of full support, so my dps has taken a rather plunge.  i have tweaked the Honor tree traits to suit my wielding of the shield. but for the most part this build of yours is more than a base/skeleton build for me.

i appreciate al l the hard work that you put into this build and i think its great.

#115 Sovelin

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:15 AM

View PostVenyarth, on 11 December 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

I might have to go with a primary Healing focused Staff after thinking about this from your reply (although mine has Vitality primary and Healing as secondary stat, so not too far off).  It was just an inexpensive exotic on the Trade Broker, so I grabbed it.

Ascalonian Catacombs vendor has just the staff you're looking for (same one I'm going for). BTW, love the build. I have the exotic armor and GS, just working on staff for now, then going to craft some jewels. Did 3 paths of AC today and was downed only once (stood on a spike trap). Thanks for the build!

#116 ChuyDog08

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 12:58 AM

I want to thank the OP for this detail build. My first alt was a Shout Warrior, and I didn't want to play a Shout build with the Guardian.  I am currently this Lyssa Build and melting enemies like butter.  I use the same traits, weapons, and skills.  However, I changed the armor up a bit.  I had spare karma jugs, so when I turned lvl 80 I decided to splerge.  I bought the Rubicon Armor of Lyssa.  It may not be a perfect match for your build, but I very rarely go down, and almost never die.  Most of my deaths are due to not paying attention and agroing too many groups in Cursed Shore area.

Great Post OP!!!

#117 sutaz

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:52 PM

Hi, It's kind of impossible to get crit chance to 50% with soldier runes, I have 1691 Prec but only getting 47% all my equip are Exotic with Precision attribute, + weap 5% im only getting 47% really disappointed.. there is no way I could increase the ciritcal chance anymore.

#118 I've got your kisses

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:14 PM

View Postsutaz, on 14 December 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

Hi, It's kind of impossible to get crit chance to 50% with soldier runes, I have 1691 Prec but only getting 47% all my equip are Exotic with Precision attribute, + weap 5% im only getting 47% really disappointed.. there is no way I could increase the ciritcal chance anymore.

Please note that the title of this thread is "Guardian of Lyssa Build".

I think Lyssa runes might be involved in the build somewhere...

#119 Sovelin

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:43 PM

View Postsutaz, on 14 December 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

Hi, It's kind of impossible to get crit chance to 50% with soldier runes, I have 1691 Prec but only getting 47% all my equip are Exotic with Precision attribute, + weap 5% im only getting 47% really disappointed.. there is no way I could increase the ciritcal chance anymore.

Also, the +5% sigil on your weap isn't reflected in the crit chance shown on the hero screen. This is also mentioned in this thread, I believe in the OP. Are you sure you're in the right thread?

Edited by Sovelin, 14 December 2012 - 07:43 PM.


#120 sutaz

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:05 PM

View PostSovelin, on 14 December 2012 - 07:43 PM, said:

Also, the +5% sigil on your weap isn't reflected in the crit chance shown on the hero screen. This is also mentioned in this thread, I believe in the OP. Are you sure you're in the right thread?

I thought they have fixed this bug, As when I remove the weap, Crit chance was decreased by 5%.




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