Vayra86, on 09 November 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:
In fact, people want rather similar things. Better yet, people want the same things as others, simply because others want certain things. Present day economy proves it - we are all part of the group, our opinions vary but all point in the same direction. We all look for the same core value in things. This goes for games too.
So there is definitely a range of definitions to be made for a 'good' game. They really are not that hard to think up either. And once the basic needs of players are catered to, the game is regarded as good. The small things, like I see in this thread, about whether or not there is a PvP flag, a certain game mode and whatnot, are secondary and will not make or break a game.
GW2 however has a few glaring errors in judging what players would define as a good game. There are a lot of smoke screens (the DE's, the expansive game world) but once you play GW2 for a while you see that many of the proposedly good elements are just the same old stuff in a different shape. On the other hand, certain elements that make a game enticing to return to and keep playing are simply not there at all. And those are also elements you would expect in a 'good' game.
Anet's definition of fun turns out to be "fun is whatever does not cost you any trouble". But to preserve game balance, things that do not cost any trouble and are only 'fun', can never be rewarding things to do. Because then everyone would do them, and everyone would no longer regard said activity as part of the fun. Anet deliberately creates a 'no-incentive' basis for virtually everything you can do in GW2. There are no real 'places to be' for players, because everything is 'fun'. This philosophy is working against the cohesion of the game and actually makes it less enjoyable.
Players have nothing to strive for. That is why I gave GW2 a meagre 6 out of 10. Once they create real incentive to play, once they make it rewarding, that score would go up to an 8 or 9 for me.
I am afraid I feel your posts itself contradicts your message in several ways!
by message I mean that players want similar things.
For you dynamic events may be a smoke screen but for me are not, for me they're truely revolutionary. Why the diversity of opinion? because we're likely looking for different things when it comes to questing.
The main thing I look for in questing is story! Leveling / combat comes secondary to that for me. Dynamic events to me when compared to traditional questing is like comparing a static picture to a full flegged movie and I will explain my analogy.
In a traditional side quest you'll get a small back story to explain why you're being asked to do what you're being asked to do. Generally It will be of a form similar to winter is approaching we need cloths bla bla please get us some wolf pelts. You do the quest but all the changes the quest did are only conseptual IE the NPC tells you that you saved the day but nothing changes anywhere. While still not perfect Dynamic events are dramatic change from that. For starters things are happening right in front of you.
Quoting my favorite dynamic event a master of whispers agent is worried about pirates getting hold of dwarven artifacts so he goes to a fellow undercover agent and asks him to round up the artifacts to get them out of the pirates reach. He actually walks over and talks to the inkeeper and before that you can actually see him on the hill watching the pirate encampment below. The inn keeper actually travels to the area where the artifacts are asks the players to collect them for him, walks back has the agent investigate the artifacts. He will find one that appears particularly dangerous and while that happens pirates actually try to steal them. If you fail to stop them, the pirates will pick up the dangerous artifact and unleash a demon who will turn them into his minions and they'll attack you. If you stop them the agent will decide with the inn keeper to send the artifact off to an expert for safe keeping. He calls a transport and you actually see him calling over a raven, he attaches a note to the raven, the raven flys off and 2 minutes or so later a caravan will come, the caravan will take the artifact to the expert who will decide to destroy the artifact etc... This all happens right infront of your eyes and all has incredible attention to detail.
bottomline Me personally can never see dynamic events as smoke screens because to me the story delivery is many times ahead of any other side questing I've seen in any other MMO. But I can understand that a person who doesnt care that much about story and instead is only interested in the activities you do in the quests themselves might not find them any different then any other MMO because at the end of the day in any game you can only do 3 things. kill, interact or travel! so yes obviously you dont do anything different in the dynamic events itself then say any quest in WoW !
Same thing with incentives, I personally find cosmetics a far better insentive then actual progression for many reason. For one having progression makes it problematic to take a break from the game because doing so puts you behind your friends / guild who might actually keep progressing. Worst yet in many MMOs I played progression is tried to a specific activity which is generally raiding and I hate playing the same content repeatedly for a long period of time. Cosmetic progression on the other hand solves all of these issues for me. Takeing a break from aquiring a weapon skin will not put me behind anyone and If I get bored running dungeons I am free to switch to Dynamic Events, WvW or whatever other content and work towards something else cause again doesnt matter how long I get a cosmetic item, it has 0 effect on my effectiveness on the game! Progression be definition also has to gate content (other wise it wouldnt be progression at all) meaning my gaming world will be smaller until I finish all the progression which generally is designed to take a long long time! worst then that the progression itself is the real smoke screen. I finish a tier 1 dungeon to get the gear necessary to do the tier 2 dungeon but the tier 1 dungeon is now useless for me cause it offers nothing for me and the tier 2 dungeon isnt easier the tier 1 dungeon I just did, its more or less the same difficulty so did I really become more powerful ? or did I just unlock a new dungeon to do ?
But it doesnt matter cause different players like different things. For you more actual gear progression would make the game more fun, for me it would make it less fun. For you changing dynamic events to regular questing might make the game more fun (easier access, always there available) for me it would make it a lot less fun because I loose the element I love the most, an evolving story with every Dynamic Event Chain!
Also I disagree with your statement regarding what today's economy. Once again people like different things, some thing capitalism is the best system others thing capitalism is a really bad system and communism is the way to go, others think communism is a disaster to be avoided at all costs. Bottomline even here there a lot of differnet economic systems simply because different people have a different idea of whats the best way. suffice to say wikipedia lists 53 differnet economic systems:
Its definitely not as simple as you think to make a good game! many people believe gw2 is a good game as is it is as clearly shown by the 9 - 10 ratings given! While others definitely think there is a lot of things that require improvement as proved by the 0 - 6 ratings!
Sorry I nearly forgot, I do agree with you though that making the game too accessble, ergo too easy it does detract from the game for many people!
Edited by XPhiler, 09 November 2012 - 04:13 PM.