16 replies to this topic

[WendyEternity]

Edit: changed due to advice, new idea:
http://gw2skills.net...IbRuikFtIYExmAA

Edited by WendyEternity, 01 December 2012 - 05:37 PM.

[BLaCKwaRRioR37]

why hammer if i may ask ? i understand the mace and shield in offhand for defensive situation

[WendyEternity]

Well I think the weapon choice is my personal playstyle. You could very well take also GS if you prefer it.

[animalmom]

i understand 60k EHP but could you break down your math as to how you get there?  I don't doubt you I am just curious

[WendyEternity]

animalmom, on 04 November 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

i understand 60k EHP but could you break down your math as to how you get there?  I don't doubt you I am just curious

np ;-)


moved to first post.

Edited by WendyEternity, 05 November 2012 - 11:00 AM.

[jeddahwe]

Ive learned that this class has at the very least 2 builds:  sPvP and everything else.  sPvP pretty much has about 50 points already pre assigned.  Everything else -say WvW- is more flexible because armor has stats and you can equip more Accessories.  So for 'everything else' as in other than sPvP, people go for more stuff they enjoy and use Knight for the Toughness.

Some much preffer Shouts for the perma swiftness among other things, OP assumes he can't run away and re engage on his terms....

[JaxSilven]

WendyEternity, on 04 November 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

Hey mates,

I have tried alot of different Guardian builds, but finally came to the conclusion, that in matters of Damage and Healing, Meditation is superior to the shout build(as in healing/dmg reduct. per second), as meditations give you about 16k EHP, when 4 meditations are used in a fight only. Together with all the Heals and HP im coming to a final EHP of 60k

The Damage is around 3000, 25% crit chance, 60% dmg reduction and 21k hp. I found this Combination to be pretty much usable for everything I want to: take hard hits while dealing considerable dmg. On top of that, alot of build I used were either dmg or tank with no dmg, but this kinda feels like im doing both without any cuts in any situations.

Of course the stability is missing, but kinda not sure how I should feel about.

Well less talking, what do YOU think about the effektiveness in any Situation?

http://gw2skills.net...K7VurkXtIY8xmAA

I don't want to come off sounding douchey, so don't take this to heart at all. Your build has 'effektive'ly zero synergy.

• Mace no healing power
  
• Retributive Armour with crit too low
  
• Retal trait with no retal focus nor boon increased duration
  
• No stand your ground on defensive build
  
• No increased boon duration for protection
  
• Crit sigils, what even..
  
• Warrior runes??

I honestly don't understand anything you're trying to do here, I'm sorry. Can you please elaborate on all these things, and why you decided against it?
Also yes meditations are the best solo heals, but playing bunker/support (which your build is set up as) it's better to run shouts because you heal your allies, not just yourself. Also boons are much better and consistant from shouts.

[WendyEternity]

JaxSilven, on 05 November 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

• Mace no healing power
  
• Retributive Armour with crit too low
  
• Retal trait with no retal focus nor boon increased duration
  
• No stand your ground on defensive build
  
• No increased boon duration for protection
  
• Crit sigils, what even..
  
• Warrior runes??

1. The weapon choice doesnt realy matter, i also wrote so in another post, but now i moved it to the first. sorry about that, my fault. For bunkering in TPVP i take the scepter/shield and hammer

2. 1860 T gives around 5% of Crit Chance, as this build is already the optimum of Tankyness in terms of effectivness you can achieve by stats distribution. The only goal now, is too boost your Dmg output. And of course the only way to boost it with already 3000 Power is mathematically Crit Chance.

3. The retail Trait on aegis is by far the easiest to get without changing the current setup. Also you get a final Duration of 12 seconds of Retal, which boosts your dmg further

4. I explained that in the first post now, the only thing I found this build is lacking is Stability, however with Renewed Focus and the 2 Stun Breaker/Condi Removals you can get out of anything.

5. I dont even Aim for proctection that much, as I explained in the main post, protection is less viable than the heal you receive from the meds. If you take for example mace/shield you have at very least 7 seconds of protection, which is nice, but yeah, no shouts= no protection build.

6. Well since its the only dmg boosting option left (5% dmg < 5% crit in THIS case) . In Tpvp tho, I focus on Sigil of Energy, which also leads to the last points:

7. Warrior Runes. What are the Options? Earth, Sanctuary, Soldier. You definately want Vitality as its more effective as Thougness AT THIS POINT ( not generally). And since more toughness is not effective (you need more and more toughness to get further dmg reduction) its more effective to deal more dmg than reduce the incoming. Also the weapon switch with energy sigils is pretty neat. But you couldnt know this, because i wrote crit sigils, again my fault.

To be clear about this Build: I tried alot of Virtue Trait line or Healing Power builds in spvp, but in the end, healing power is pretty much bad. since the more hp you receive per second is so low and often work with reggen skills (which people can be positive or negative about).
And in the end, im tanking more with this build, holding my point way longer than other guardians.

And also the Shout build as a Bunker guardian, especially traited for AH, i dont really see the point, the whole point of holding a point is, that the others are away and win the game, of course they have to come for help since you cant tank all day long, but you dont really wanna wait with your shouts until then ( you cant).

[JaxSilven]

WendyEternity, on 05 November 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

1. The weapon choice doesnt realy matter, i also wrote so in another post, but now i moved it to the first. sorry about that, my fault. For bunkering in TPVP i take the scepter/shield and hammer

2. 1860 T gives around 5% of Crit Chance, as this build is already the optimum of Tankyness in terms of effectivness you can achieve by stats distribution. The only goal now, is too boost your Dmg output. And of course the only way to boost it with already 3000 Power is mathematically Crit Chance.

3. The retail Trait on aegis is by far the easiest to get without changing the current setup. Also you get a final Duration of 12 seconds of Retal, which boosts your dmg further

4. I explained that in the first post now, the only thing I found this build is lacking is Stability, however with Renewed Focus and the 2 Stun Breaker/Condi Removals you can get out of anything.

5. I dont even Aim for proctection that much, as I explained in the main post, protection is less viable than the heal you receive from the meds. If you take for example mace/shield you have at very least 7 seconds of protection, which is nice, but yeah, no shouts= no protection build.

6. Well since its the only dmg boosting option left (5% dmg < 5% crit in THIS case) . In Tpvp tho, I focus on Sigil of Energy, which also leads to the last points:

7. Warrior Runes. What are the Options? Earth, Sanctuary, Soldier. You definately want Vitality as its more effective as Thougness AT THIS POINT ( not generally). And since more toughness is not effective (you need more and more toughness to get further dmg reduction) its more effective to deal more dmg than reduce the incoming. Also the weapon switch with energy sigils is pretty neat. But you couldnt know this, because i wrote crit sigils, again my fault.

To be clear about this Build: I tried alot of Virtue Trait line or Healing Power builds in spvp, but in the end, healing power is pretty much bad. since the more hp you receive per second is so low and often work with reggen skills (which people can be positive or negative about).
And in the end, im tanking more with this build, holding my point way longer than other guardians.

And also the Shout build as a Bunker guardian, especially traited for AH, i dont really see the point, the whole point of holding a point is, that the others are away and win the game, of course they have to come for help since you cant tank all day long, but you dont really wanna wait with your shouts until then ( you cant).

1. I didn't see your post, wouldn't recommend that weapon set either way.

2.. Purity

3.You can have a much higher uptime.

4. Without stability you'll lose a ton of stomps and reses, you're a Guardian. Also you won't hold cap points for long.

5. Protection is a lot better for a support guardian than meds. Also your mace/shield = very low damage when you're not in hammer.

6. Bloodlust >> 10% crit.

7. Earth or Mercy. Even soldier or Dolyak > Warrior. -1s doesn't even come close to cutting it for energy swap mods. When it stacks with a war trait that can be completely different.

Although healing power is awesome at high levels (selfless daring), you sac vit. Which means it's not viable at all, but 450healing power is good for small hp heals on dodge rolls and increasing your small heals by maybe 10-15% around (rough estimate). Easily achieved by 20 Honour + 25 Life stacks.
And Bunker Guardian doesn't mean "others are away and win game" 80% of the time, you generally play in the centre and have to support your allies to win. I assure you if you had 1 bunker on each team, one AH one med, the AH would give their team a giant advantage.
Sometimes yeah if you don't run an eng/mes you'll cover an edge cap point by yourself, but then you 100billion% need stand your ground and I assure you verse players who know how to play, lack of protection and condition removal will just kill you. I know you're going to think that you have CoP, but you need SY/CoP/SYG or SC/CoP/SYG or SY/HtL/SYG or even with hammer of wisdom/sanct.

tldr; can't support allies = burst nowhere near as effective and your team will have much less survivability.

[WendyEternity]

JaxSilven, on 05 November 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

1. I didn't see your post, wouldn't recommend that weapon set either way.

2.. Purity

3.You can have a much higher uptime.

4. Without stability you'll lose a ton of stomps and reses, you're a Guardian. Also you won't hold cap points for long.

5. Protection is a lot better for a support guardian than meds. Also your mace/shield = very low damage when you're not in hammer.

6. Bloodlust >> 10% crit.

7. Earth or Mercy. Even soldier or Dolyak > Warrior. -1s doesn't even come close to cutting it for energy swap mods. When it stacks with a war trait that can be completely different.

Although healing power is awesome at high levels (selfless daring), you sac vit. Which means it's not viable at all, but 450healing power is good for small hp heals on dodge rolls and increasing your small heals by maybe 10-15% around (rough estimate). Easily achieved by 20 Honour + 25 Life stacks.
And Bunker Guardian doesn't mean "others are away and win game" 80% of the time, you generally play in the centre and have to support your allies to win. I assure you if you had 1 bunker on each team, one AH one med, the AH would give their team a giant advantage.
Sometimes yeah if you don't run an eng/mes you'll cover an edge cap point by yourself, but then you 100billion% need stand your ground and I assure you verse players who know how to play, lack of protection and condition removal will just kill you. I know you're going to think that you have CoP, but you need SY/CoP/SYG or SC/CoP/SYG or SY/HtL/SYG or even with hammer of wisdom/sanct.

tldr; can't support allies = burst nowhere near as effective and your team will have much less survivability.

2. Granted, viable option, despite you will lose more dmg output then you actually do migitate.

3. At what cost? Keep in mind Retal does not infact keep you alive, it hits the enemy for ~300 dmg. So the importance is in the eye of the observer. Spending points there very well cuts you back in 2225 Healing effectivly.

5. For supportive aspects of course shouts aka Protection are better, but you always have to keep in mind, that shouts with exception of SYG are passive and you wont have an active card up your sleves like MI or JI. And you cannot always wait for your teammates to be there. A often seen thing is, the sanctuary as another option, which needs SYG to be ready to cast TOC, otherwise everyone will knock, fear or whatever you out of the process.
Now its hard to desrcribe but the thing is that shouts are situational, which is not a bad thing at all, but in comparison there is no cd running meanwhile because you really want to time your protection (which I also get with the Hammer constantly with my build) until the enemy comes with the really big hits. With Meds you literally want your meds on cd the whole time.

6. 10% Crit >> Bloodlust. Here is why:

In average you are gonna have  =/<125 Power from Bloodlust. Especially as Bunker. Also 30% Crit Dmg in Valor are totally wasted if you dont crit. Rendering the whole Shout build ineffectiv to begin with.

3125*0,8*0,13= 325 Additional Power on Hit in average.

3000*0,8*0,23= 552 Additional Power on Hit in average.

7. Mercy is in fact very good. Yes, but then you got the problem of all the Toughness being wasted, as the effect is pretty much 0 because you already have too much Toughness, which makes Vitality wayyyy more viable.

Also sac. HP is a good thing. this is literaly the time you wait until your cd runs up. A dodge with 500 Healing cannot compare to having 6000 Hp on my bank. This would need at least 12 Dodges to break even

Can you please link me one of the viable Shout builds, that do in fact mitigate the  incompatibility between the traits, Runes and Sigils?

Edited by WendyEternity, 05 November 2012 - 04:03 PM.

[jeddahwe]

Going on the advice of some posters here the more I play the more move towards 'bunker' type specs -keep in mind I want a fit-all build as in I don't want to change traits EVER.

Here is what I have now:   http://www.guildwars...e-working-well/

Build by Drekor I change utilities for more swiftness and I use his build in group play.  I have all weapons in my bag and though I never change GS my second set is always changing.

[JaxSilven]

WendyEternity, on 05 November 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

Can you please link me one of the viable Shout builds, that do in fact mitigate the  incompatibility between the traits, Runes and Sigils?

http://www.guildwars...ng-tournaments/
look under builds, I'm sure I left one there
Comment on the rest later, too tired.

[WendyEternity]

So I worked around a few numbers and did an overhaul. This one is retaliation based with almost 1min of uptime in total.

http://gw2skills.net...LbWuskZt Y8xOEA

Took Smite out and replaced it with SYS/SYG but not sure yet. Stability in theory is pretty solid, but only 6 secs makes it kinda not enough for me, id rather have Save yourself, where I reduce dmg, get heal and getting way more Boon Duration bonus out of since 20% boni. I also think to gather all the condis from allies and then replace them with stacked durations of Boons with CoP is a good move.

Crit Chance is pretty low now, but I guess Retaliation is the Guardians Critical Hit i suppose. (well actually you could do double +5% on dual weapon set and 25 stacks of precision on the 2h, and this would give you around 25% crit chance for free....with the preset that would make a total of 35% without anything changed, which would give you 600 power on top for each hit.....)

Other Changes:
Runes changed to Soldiers, so i dont lose the condi removal.  Heal changed, due to Signet having a too long cd now, Weapon sigils changed, weapons still dont matter.

Edited by WendyEternity, 08 November 2012 - 12:51 AM.

[ZCKS]

few things I would change.

1:  You have no stability that will hurt you allot in the long run.

2 Your only using 1 shout on a simi long CD but your taking superior aria.

3: The duration of the retal from wrathful spirit is only about 3-5 seconds base (forget which) & given how often virtue of courage procs there are better options.

4: your using hammer, mace & shield. one of these needs to go.

Now for what changes I would suggest http://gw2skills.net...WuskZt Y8x5j3HA

for 1 & 2 I would suggest dropping the meditation build & going with alruistic healing & picking up stand your ground. (this will also greatly increase the up time of retaliation for you and nearby allies as well.

for #4 I would suggest dropping the mace & shield for a staff as the heal/might from it can be game changing, especially with altruistic healing.

for #3 I would suggest getting two handed mastery as it can make the staff & hammer all the better.

Next you could either get signet of judgment or hold the line for your other utility, personally I prefer judgment as the retal is nice but the weakness can save your & your allies in a pinch.


Lastly IDK if you have considered it yet but you may want to try out the clearic's amulet. Given the sheer amount of condition removal this build has & the fact you have a 3k+ armor rating you could possibly stand to drop the health for more healing power to be mpre supportive. If you do this though I would suggest grabbing hold the line as your third utility.

(frankly though given the + critical damage this build has I wish there was an amulet that added precision, power & toughness as that would be awesome for this spec)

[WendyEternity]

Thanks for your input guys,

i have thought about it a lot and put your advice in my new build, your were right about most of the points.

Now this build is mainly pvp which can be slightly changed to a wvw build.

Now what am i trying to do? I want to be very tanky, hold points, be supportive to me team to a moderate degree, but in the same time want to deal enough dmg to kill the attacker in the process.

Key facts:

- 3100-3200 Armor

- ~2900 Power

- 30-50% CRIT CHANCE

- 180% Critical Dmg

- 18.000 HP

- ~ 50 secs of Retaliation

- massive Condi removal (2x3 by VoC, all by Renewed Focus and smite)

http://gw2skills.net...IbRuikFtIYExmAA

Detail:

- Why 30 Pts in Valor and only 10 in Honor? The reason is to get crits, and these crits should count, and with 180% crit dmg it really hurts!

Additionally, the Smite gives you around 2,5k hp back, before armor! Smite= Condi removal, 1k dmg, 2,5k heal, 20 secs cd

- Why Rune of Lyssa????? Wtf? Yes, rune of Lyssa, basicly another Save yourself for free, lol, full condi removal, all that on 90 secs cd! OP
  also 10 sec buff on 32 sec heal, crit chance, the ONLY (condition dmg not in account) way to highten your dmg output, yes build with 30 into zeal and 4% crit is absolute bs, you basicly get double the dmg with crit instead. With the 20% boon duration that works for SY, SYG, Virtue Boons, 10 sec Boon on heal and the all boon ult.

- For WvW, you switch smite for Jugdes Intervention to cast the ring of wardening and teleport into a group of enemys, lock them down, get 20 bags, gg, you wont die since with your ult you will be invulnerable and lose all the condis you prolly get, such as posion. Afterwards heal, double dodge out and your save. You wont die.

So, pls help me to improve my build further, remember, the aim of this build is not to be a class healer or a mass support. This build is mainly for gettin in there alone, get out or hold your point untilreinforcements arrive while you very well might be able to kill your foe.

Edited by WendyEternity, 01 December 2012 - 04:04 PM.

[Kaboobie]

haven't tested it yet but in theory it looks like a pretty solid hot join spvp build

[Nibiru23]

you are using monk focus trait ( meditation heals) but you only have 1 meditation skill....., your healing power is crap so why are you using this??????

if you fight a decent warrior you are going to loose

i wont say its bad build, coz is not but.....i have seen better builds