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First expansion theorycrafting (Jormag, tengu and Far Shiverpeaks)

jormag tengu far shiverpeaks woodland cascades charr homelands mursaat centaurs flame legion kodan expansion

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#1 Lonami

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:19 PM

It's been a while, but I have kept improving this slowly in all these months. I'll leave all the old information there as a reminder/archive, but the new one is inside the link to the official wiki below. So this is it, my first expansion theorycrafting idea, fully fleshed out, "2.0". I hope you have fun reading it, I had a lot building it, writing it in a readable form and then compiling it in wiki-format with pictures and all. And be warned, when I say long, I mean it for real.

Posted Image

First expansion theorycrafting: Jormag, Tengu and Far Shiverpeaks 2.0

It's a pretty huge piece of text, so I probably made mistakes somewhere. I welcome all kinds of constructive criticism around it. The lines/model of this theorycrafting is what I would like to see from an expansion, and what I think would be the best way to implement it. The setting? I think it's the logical next step, but story can be written to make any scenario viable.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Everything below inside the spoiler is old information:

Spoiler

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Skip to the new posts: http://www.guildwars...30#entry2276570

Edited by Lonami, 02 January 2014 - 02:56 PM.


#2 Jentari

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 06:31 AM

While I agree that Jormag seems to be the next likely dragon, I have doubts that Tengu, or any new race will be in the next expansion.  I would be happy to see Jormag next and put off the Crystal Desert maybe with the Tengu then for the 3rd release.  As far as the Mursaat goes, I cant find where it is but I remember it being said somewhere that the Mursaat where completely destroyed during the War in Kryta.

Also both the White Mantle (and Mursaat) both had their base of operations in the West (mostly west of LA and some in Maguuma) so putting their new base north, while yes they had some presence there doesnt really fit, like the Tengu, granted some where there but they had a bigger present in Kryta and where also some in Cantha.

Yes to the Flame Legion.  This would be a good idea making them a bigger threat along with the Sons of Svarnir.

Now for a new profession, I do expect that during one or more of the upcomming expansions they will add a new class, but I think that with the first expansion we will not see new races or classes, I believe that they will come with expansion #2.

Now this is going with the belief that they will issue one expansion per dragon, but it is always possible that they could bring on an expansion with 2 dragons and if they do that I could see both race & class expansion in that.

Anyway, good ideas, I am to hoping that the next expansion is not the Crystal Desert, not Elona and not Cantha.

#3 Bomb Voyage

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 06:41 AM

If we are going to fight Jormag, wouldn't the Kodan be a more logical choice of a playable race?

#4 Jentari

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:27 AM

View PostSmallie, on 07 November 2012 - 06:41 AM, said:

If we are going to fight Jormag, wouldn't the Kodan be a more logical choice of a playable race?

It would make sense as they seemed to be displaced by Jormag, but from the way they are portrayed they dont seem like a race that we will play.  I hate to admit to it as I hate the Quaggan but I think we will have the option to play them before the Kodan, but they (Quaggan) shouldnt be a big player in Jormag, more likely they would become more involved with Bubbles.

#5 Tchaikovsky_1812

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:59 PM

Mursaat and/or White Mantle presence at tengu starting zone and Woodland Cascades:
Spoiler



I'm pretty sure both the Mursaat and  White Mantle were wiped out as a result of the story line of GW1.

#6 Grimrist

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:04 AM

View PostTchaikovsky_1812, on 07 November 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

Mursaat and/or White Mantle presence at tengu starting zone and Woodland Cascades:
Spoiler



I'm pretty sure both the Mursaat and  White Mantle were wiped out as a result of the story line of GW1.

human PS spoiler:

Spoiler


#7 Jentari

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 04:51 AM

View PostGrimrist, on 08 November 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:

human PS spoiler:

Spoiler

I will agree with this.  I have the missing parents on one character and have already faced white mantle (although they dont dress like them) in at least 2 different stories already.

But yes, from the GW1 storyline it is said that the Mursaat where destroyed and pretty much implies that they are gone forever.

#8 Tchaikovsky_1812

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 05:16 PM

Well, 5 minutes after posting about the white mantle being dead, I played a bit more on my human thief; lo and behold who do I come across.... :(

#9 chuckles79

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 05:22 PM

View PostTchaikovsky_1812, on 08 November 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

Well, 5 minutes after posting about the white mantle being dead, I played a bit more on my human thief; lo and behold who do I come across.... :(
LOL I just got to that point last night.  I was actually expecting to face a Mursaat in C's Manor, after seeing the "Graffiti" in Beetletun.  They set up a return for Lazarus the Dire in GW1 and all but giddily hinted that we'd be seeing him again.

However...(drum roll please) I figured out where Lost Shore is going to be.  It was staring us in the face THE ENTIRE TIME.

Spoiler

Edited by chuckles79, 08 November 2012 - 05:24 PM.


#10 actionjack

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 01:45 AM

I like the ideas.  And well based assumptions.

While Tengus would not be my first choice (for the setting, i would prefer the bear people) , but will see.

I am interested to see what kind of new profession they would introduce (if any).  Make me tingling about writing a concept class too.

I do hope the story mission plays out better this time.  I am not too big of fan of the story mission in GW2.  The character development/relationship could be better, and more interesting mission type (instead of just Go to Point A, Kill lots mob type).

And hope to see more added in to the combat/strategy layer.

Edited by actionjack, 09 November 2012 - 01:47 AM.


#11 Lonami

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 10:53 PM

Thanks for the support, guys :D. Some answers:

View PostJentari, on 07 November 2012 - 06:31 AM, said:

While I agree that Jormag seems to be the next likely dragon, I have doubts that Tengu, or any new race will be in the next expansion.  I would be happy to see Jormag next and put off the Crystal Desert maybe with the Tengu then for the 3rd release.  As far as the Mursaat goes, I cant find where it is but I remember it being said somewhere that the Mursaat where completely destroyed during the War in Kryta.

Also both the White Mantle (and Mursaat) both had their base of operations in the West (mostly west of LA and some in Maguuma) so putting their new base north, while yes they had some presence there doesnt really fit, like the Tengu, granted some where there but they had a bigger present in Kryta and where also some in Cantha.

This will be slightly long :P:

Why tengu, in Far Shiverpeaks? (gameplay)

Note: This is my personal view on level flow design, it may not be correct. Here we go:

I think Far Shiverpeaks isn't as independent as the other "continents", which would force it to adapt to the current level flow. Right now, the tengu are the only option that match it, pretty much because their region is the only one available for introducing a new race in the existing level flow.

What about the rest of the continents? Cantha, Elona, Depths of Tyria... though they may be linked (as in you can walk from Tyria to them, in the case of Crystal Desert + Vabbi and Maguuma Wastes + Kryta), they're too far away from Lion's Arch and Tyria's level flow, which gives space for new races to develop on them. Far Shiverpeaks is too near, but not enough, so giving it a level flow of its own would cut the entire continent in half.

Yeah, new races could work on Maguuma Wastes and Deldrimor Front, but I think that would be overkill, since it would force them to travel across 3-4 zones of the other races, and charr, sylvari and asura already "suffer" too much in not accessing Gendarran Fields and Lornar's Pass "directly".

Also, I don't find kodan viable as a race (which is just my opinion, and would be better discussed in another thread if you really want to get into details). One of the reasons is they would break the "rule" above. Location of their capital? Should their starting zone be snowy and/or have access to sea? Where would it link with the current flow, at Snowden Drifts, where it would cut Woodland Cascades from Far Shiverpeaks? I just find them too hard to match into the cartography and level flow we have. Of course, they could make a separate region or whatever... but I just don't see it.

Summarized: Jormag expansion's (X1) new race must fit the existing flow, and the tengu are the only one that works. Kodan don't work well, between other reasons, because no race can't fit effectively on Far Shiverpeaks.

Pretty long, yeah, sorry for that, but I think this leaves clear my gameplay reasons for having tengu on X1. There's lore reasons, too.

Why tengu, in Far Shiverpeaks? (lore and themes)

What's the reason for charr, norn, asura... to be on Orr? None, at least not a "personal" one, like sylvari and humans, who suffer Zhaitan's threat more than the rest. Tengu don't really need a personal reason to fight Jormag, either. But still, they have things and themes linking to them fitting Far Shiverpeaks:

If we suppose there's White Mantle presence on Janthir, then it wouldn't be hard to link it with D'Alessio Seaboard (remaining spot on Kryta, that would be included in X2, the second tengu zone). Likewise, Woodland Cascades, being between Janthir and Kryta, would be a good place for some White Mantle activities. If you add the theories of the White Mantle being behind the bandits and the centaurs, then Woodland Cascades is even more perfect for them. This links tengu with the White Mantle, which is in turn linked with a big part of Jormag's expansion.

I know the White Mantle could be on Maguuma Wastes, too, but I believe that region will be part of Primordus' expansion. Wait, tengu are being attacked by destroyers! Primordus expansion would be perfect for them! Except... themes. Unless they avoid making too many underground zones (I think most of the new zones for the Primordus expansion should be underground) "bird people" don't fit an undeground theme, and you need to make sure major additions on each expansion share their theme. This strengthens the image of the expansion. Imagine we got playable kodan on the Elona expansion. It feels wrong, because themes.

The White Mantle is the major link. The second and last one is the Quetzal tribe. We don't know anything about Woodland Cascades, and if we use the hints we have from Harathi Highlands on GW2 and Verdant Cascades on GW1, tengu were up there, which can be expanded to much more, like pretty much all the North tengu having a small nation there, which could have been destroyed after Jormag's awakening.

So yeah, tengu have links with the north, that wouldn't make them feel forced. Even more, I don't think they fit with Primordus (because themes), and I think Cantha has more options, like naga or largos, rather than tengu, that wouldn't even have their capital there.

View PostJentari, on 07 November 2012 - 06:31 AM, said:

Now for a new profession, I do expect that during one or more of the upcomming expansions they will add a new class, but I think that with the first expansion we will not see new races or classes, I believe that they will come with expansion #2.

Now this is going with the belief that they will issue one expansion per dragon, but it is always possible that they could bring on an expansion with 2 dragons and if they do that I could see both race & class expansion in that.

I think we'll eventually get 4 professions, and 3-5 races. The first expansion would focus on expanding what we have, while the rest would be more independent. The first expansion needs to be strong, and delivering both a race and a profession would add this strength. Following expansions could give just one, and focus on adding more zones and secondary options.

Having two dragons on a single expansion would be a waste, in my opinion. We could have a second one show around, but that should be all. Why? Pretty much because each dragon has a continent:

-Depths of Tyria + Maguuma Wastes: Primordus
-Elona + Crystal Desert: Kralkatorrik
-Cantha + Unending Ocean: "Bubbles"

Well, we could make Bubbles fit into another expansion somehow, expanding Cantha towards planes instead of the sea, and having some demonic villain instead, but that's the only exception I see. Depends on what we want for the 5th expansion (6th dragon west of Maguuma using Utopia stuff?).

In the end, I feel there's a lot of potential on each continent, and putting two dragons together would diminish the number of zones for those continents. I want to explore an underground continent when I fight Primordus. If Primordus comes together with Bubbles, for example, I wouldn't have an underground continent anymore, just some zones. I don't think we'll get more than 20 new zones per expansion (ideal number is around 16-18, GW2 is 25), and you need to make sure you cover enough with that number.

View Postchuckles79, on 08 November 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

However...(drum roll please) I figured out where Lost Shore is going to be.  It was staring us in the face THE ENTIRE TIME.

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure Lost Shores is an isle, probably volcanic, and young. Enemies will be pirates, destroyers or Bubbles' minions.

So, without derailing the thread, I'm confident D'Alessio Seaboard and the rest of locations I took for the tengu starting zones won't be covered by the Lost Shores update.

Edited by Lonami, 09 November 2012 - 10:58 PM.


#12 Jentari

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 03:27 AM

While I see your reasons for saying Tengu in a Jormag expansion, I think it would be more likely if they add a new race it will either be the Kodan or possibly re-introduce dwarves (a line that didnt turn to stone).

I tend to to think as I have seen in other threads that Tengu will come with an expansion in Cantha.  I believe that expansion will have us help the Tengu re-establish their homes after the Emporer threw everyone out.

I still dont think we will see more then 3 expansions and we will have some added content in between with some of it dealing with some of the dragons.  I really dont see Anet having 5 expansions all having us deal with dragons.  it would get old really fast and would drive more people off then bring them in.

I also believe that any new races we see will only be in expansions and I think that we will only see at most 2-3 more professions (Anet learned that when adding new professions in GW1 it caused numerous balance issues).

While the thought of unlimited expansions is nice and the adding of numerous races/professions is appealing, the issues that can arise with these options could cause major game problems.

#13 VanderBeltLegacy

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:30 AM

View PostJentari, on 08 November 2012 - 04:51 AM, said:

But yes, from the GW1 storyline it is said that the Mursaat where destroyed and pretty much implies that they are gone forever.

"The release of the titans, and later the Shining Blade's victory in the War in Kryta, resulted in the deaths of most of the mursaat. At least one, Lazarus the Dire, is known to have lived through these events. Nothing else is known of their current situation."
-http://wiki.guildwar...om/wiki/Mursaat
so there not implied to be gone for ever IMO

as for race, i honestly couldn't see either Quaggans or Kodans as a playable race, i feel as they have little customising options, opposed to Largo's,

as for tengu, there more likely to appear when Primordus awakens

Quote

The Dominion of Winds is a walled-off tengu city on an island chain south of Kryta, built atop the island formerly known as Sanctum Cay. The tengu from across the world immigrated and established the Dominion of Winds after the Great Tsunami, making it the last completely tengu-controlled area in the world. Due to their history with other races, the tengu have isolated themselves within the city, not allowing any other race inside.
Two trading outposts have been settled just outside the Dominion of Winds, Tanto Trading Post and Ireko Tradecamp, in order to trade with the other races. Recently, destroyers have begun appearing on both sides of the wall surrounding the Dominion of Winds

-http://wiki.guildwar...(Caledon_Forest)

for people who dont wanna link-

Quote

"The Dominion of Winds is an area in Caledon Forest outside the western border of the actual Dominion of Winds, a walled-off tengu city. It appropriately features a group of Tengu where you can obtain a skill point."

Edited by VanderBeltLegacy, 12 November 2012 - 04:32 AM.


#14 Allmightybob

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:31 PM

Enemy: Deep Sea Dragon
Regions: Cantha
Races: Human (Cathan, or Kurzick and Luxon "races" but I highly doubt this), Tengu, and Largos
Professions: A new soldier and adventurer class.

Expect new Cathan themed weapons and skill bars for existing classes. The region's signature monsters types such as the adorable Wallow and the feared Oni will make a return.

In fact, this up coming November event is a primer for this expansion.

Edited by Allmightybob, 12 November 2012 - 04:41 PM.


#15 VanderBeltLegacy

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:47 PM

View PostAllmightybob, on 12 November 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

Enemy: Deep Sea Dragon
Regions: Cantha
Races: Human (Cathan, or Kurzick and Luxon "races" but I highly doubt this), Tengu, and Largos
Professions: A new soldier and adventurer class.

Expect new Cathan themed weapons and skill bars for existing classes. The region's signature monsters types such as the adorable Wallow and the feared Oni will make a return.

In fact, this up coming November event is a primer for this expansion.
cant be Tengu when there no longer in cantha ;)

Deep Sea Dragon>Cantha>Race:Largos>Class:Friar(personal joke)>seek allies from kurzick/luxon (maybe @ war for food/territory again, maybe even with cantha due to been cut off>maybe even seek help from wardens(since there protectors of the forest) and all and the minions would be destroying the "Amber" Forest, new races will likely have been forced here....um yeah thats all 4 now

Edited by VanderBeltLegacy, 12 November 2012 - 04:55 PM.


#16 Allmightybob

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 05:06 PM

View PostVanderBeltLegacy, on 12 November 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

cant be Tengu when there no longer in cantha ;)

But they have the most recent information on Cantha and would be the most interested in returning or reestablishing contact there. Player character Tengu would originate from the Dominion of Winds.

Edited by Allmightybob, 12 November 2012 - 05:06 PM.


#17 VanderBeltLegacy

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 05:09 PM

View PostAllmightybob, on 12 November 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

But they have the most recent information on Cantha and would be the most interested in returning or reestablishing contact there. Player character Tengu would originate from the Dominion of Winds.
ha ha, im to stupid to realise that >.<

#18 Lonami

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 02:55 PM

View PostJentari, on 10 November 2012 - 03:27 AM, said:

While I see your reasons for saying Tengu in a Jormag expansion, I think it would be more likely if they add a new race it will either be the Kodan or possibly re-introduce dwarves (a line that didnt turn to stone).

I tend to to think as I have seen in other threads that Tengu will come with an expansion in Cantha.  I believe that expansion will have us help the Tengu re-establish their homes after the Emporer threw everyone out.

I still dont think we will see more then 3 expansions and we will have some added content in between with some of it dealing with some of the dragons.  I really dont see Anet having 5 expansions all having us deal with dragons.  it would get old really fast and would drive more people off then bring them in.

I also believe that any new races we see will only be in expansions and I think that we will only see at most 2-3 more professions (Anet learned that when adding new professions in GW1 it caused numerous balance issues).

While the thought of unlimited expansions is nice and the adding of numerous races/professions is appealing, the issues that can arise with these options could cause major game problems.

Where would you place their starting zones and capital city, then?

I think we'll see a lot of expansions, 4-5 without any problems, depending on the game's number of players, of course. I could play this game forever if they keep updating it. Even if there's new MMOs out there, most of GW2 is pretty casual, and I wouldn't feel forced to leave for good.

There won't be any problems if they add new content in the right manner.

View PostVanderBeltLegacy, on 12 November 2012 - 04:30 AM, said:

as for tengu, there more likely to appear when Primordus awakens

Read my answer to that in my previous post in this thread: http://www.guildwars...s/#entry2070845

View PostAllmightybob, on 12 November 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

Enemy: Deep Sea Dragon
Regions: Cantha
Races: Human (Cathan, or Kurzick and Luxon "races" but I highly doubt this), Tengu, and Largos
Professions: A new soldier and adventurer class.

Expect new Cathan themed weapons and skill bars for existing classes. The region's signature monsters types such as the adorable Wallow and the feared Oni will make a return.

In fact, this up coming November event is a primer for this expansion.

With Jormag and Kralkatorrik at our doorstep, going after Bubbles or Primordus would be illogical, in my opinion.

#19 VanderBeltLegacy

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:02 AM

View PostLonami, on 13 November 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:



Read my answer to that in my previous post in this thread: http://www.guildwars...s/#entry2070845




doesnt flow, IMO, but every has 1

#20 Lonami

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:23 PM

Seems Southsun Cove screwed up my tengu starting zones plans. Seriously, I didn't imagine they would place the zone there, I thought it would be souther. As it is now, I feel it wastes potential (No connecting to Caledon Forest and Sparkfly Swamp). Even more, it doesn't make too much sense to have an "unexplored" island be on the middle of the Sea of Sorrows (a big island, by the way). The terrain contrast doesn't match the surrounding too well, too.

So maybe I'll pull a "relocation card", leave it ambiguous or give another alternative, but I like my first iteration so I'll still work on it, no matter it may contradict established material :).

View PostVanderBeltLegacy, on 17 November 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

doesnt flow, IMO, but every has 1

Mind elaborating? I don't understand you.

#21 VanderBeltLegacy

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:48 AM

View PostLonami, on 19 November 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

Seems Southsun Cove screwed up my tengu starting zones plans. Seriously, I didn't imagine they would place the zone there, I thought it would be souther. As it is now, I feel it wastes potential (No connecting to Caledon Forest and Sparkfly Swamp). Even more, it doesn't make too much sense to have an "unexplored" island be on the middle of the Sea of Sorrows (a big island, by the way). The terrain contrast doesn't match the surrounding too well, too.

So maybe I'll pull a "relocation card", leave it ambiguous or give another alternative, but I like my first iteration so I'll still work on it, no matter it may contradict established material :).



Mind elaborating? I don't understand you.

sorry not many people usually do, i have very bad english

View PostLonami, on 19 November 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

the tengu are the only option that match it
(sorry repeat, but adding additional info)

The Dominion of Winds is a walled-off tengu city on an island chain south of Kryta, built atop the island formerly known as Sanctum Cay. The tengu from across the world immigrated and established the Dominion of Winds after the Great Tsunami, making it the last completely tengu-controlled area in the world. Due to their history with other races, the tengu have isolated themselves within the city, not allowing any other race inside.
Two trading outposts have been settled just outside the Dominion of Winds, Tanto Trading Post and Ireko Tradecamp, in order to trade with the other races. Recently, destroyers have begun appearing on both sides of the wall surrounding the Dominion of Winds.


"The Dominion of Winds is an area in Caledon Forest outside the western border of the actual Dominion of Winds, a walled-offtengu city. It appropriately features a group of Tengu where you can obtain a skill point."

now that i have went to quote, and now had a good think, yes Far Shiver Peaks, as the Great Destroyer was there and Primordus will likely be there (from what i remember)...i just dont see them fighting any other dragon except Primordus at the moment.

#22 Lonami

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:11 PM

View PostVanderBeltLegacy, on 21 November 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

sorry not many people usually do, i have very bad english


(sorry repeat, but adding additional info)

The Dominion of Winds is a walled-off tengu city on an island chain south of Kryta, built atop the island formerly known as Sanctum Cay. The tengu from across the world immigrated and established the Dominion of Winds after the Great Tsunami, making it the last completely tengu-controlled area in the world. Due to their history with other races, the tengu have isolated themselves within the city, not allowing any other race inside.
Two trading outposts have been settled just outside the Dominion of Winds, Tanto Trading Post and Ireko Tradecamp, in order to trade with the other races. Recently, destroyers have begun appearing on both sides of the wall surrounding the Dominion of Winds.


"The Dominion of Winds is an area in Caledon Forest outside the western border of the actual Dominion of Winds, a walled-offtengu city. It appropriately features a group of Tengu where you can obtain a skill point."

now that i have went to quote, and now had a good think, yes Far Shiver Peaks, as the Great Destroyer was there and Primordus will likely be there (from what i remember)...i just dont see them fighting any other dragon except Primordus at the moment.

Destroyers are a temporal and situational enemy. Using "destroyers are attacking them" as an argument doesn't make too much sense. It's a starting zone problem and plot, which doesn't need to evolve anywhere else, just like icebrood, Ascalonian ghosts, Flame Legion, Inquest, etc. That appear in the starting zones and once you go beyond level 30 you don't see them again, or you take some time to see them again.

Also, the themes don't match. Tengu don't fit the underground theme, and you need to give space to the new race. You need to have established tengu on the new zones, and there aren't tengu on neither Maguuma Wastes nor Depths of Tyria.

#23 VanderBeltLegacy

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 05:28 PM

View PostLonami, on 21 November 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:


Destroyers are a temporal and situational enemy. Using "destroyers are attacking them" as an argument doesn't make too much sense. It's a starting zone problem and plot, which doesn't need to evolve anywhere else, just like icebrood, Ascalonian ghosts, Flame Legion, Inquest, etc. That appear in the starting zones and once you go beyond level 30 you don't see them again, or you take some time to see them again.

Also, the themes don't match. Tengu don't fit the underground theme, and you need to give space to the new race. You need to have established tengu on the new zones, and there aren't tengu on neither Maguuma Wastes nor Depths of Tyria.
go read wiki on gw2 tengu, before saying it dont make sense http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tengu
..and to be fair, this is thoery crafting not a debate(or an ARGUMENT), we have sperate opinions, is it to hard to leave it at that?...getting sick of these Post getting turned into debates, who says Primordus wont surface?, or is in a dungeon Like Zhaitan?, the fact still stands, Destroyers are NOT just a temporary situation, Primordus is there Elder Dragon, who WOULD be in FAR SHIVERPEAKS, since it's champion "THE GREAT DESTROYER" was there, and Promordus was resting there. http://wiki.guildwar.../wiki/Primordus

underground or not the Destroyers SURFACE, as will probably Primordus, Tengu have little to do with other races, and gaining aid to battle the great destroyer is more reasonable, then "hey let's go beat up a dragon not currently attacking us"

thats my OPINION, not ARGUMENT!!!!

#24 Lonami

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:09 PM

View PostVanderBeltLegacy, on 21 November 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

go read wiki on gw2 tengu, before saying it dont make sense http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tengu
..and to be fair, this is thoery crafting not a debate(or an ARGUMENT), we have sperate opinions, is it to hard to leave it at that?...getting sick of these Post getting turned into debates, who says Primordus wont surface?, or is in a dungeon Like Zhaitan?, the fact still stands, Destroyers are NOT just a temporary situation, Primordus is there Elder Dragon, who WOULD be in FAR SHIVERPEAKS, since it's champion "THE GREAT DESTROYER" was there, and Promordus was resting there. http://wiki.guildwar.../wiki/Primordus

underground or not the Destroyers SURFACE, as will probably Primordus, Tengu have little to do with other races, and gaining aid to battle the great destroyer is more reasonable, then "hey let's go beat up a dragon not currently attacking us"

thats my OPINION, not ARGUMENT!!!!

You don't get my message, at all. I'll repeat it in list-form:

*Tengu don't make sense in neither Maguuma Wastes nor Depths of Tyria, which would invalidate their presence against Primordus if we consider those two are his main territories. You can't introduce a bird-race in those lands, the same way you can't introduce an aquatic race in a desert land. They don't fit, and the feel disconnected. It's bad design.

*Destroyers attacking Dominion of Winds is eventual and irrelevant. It's just a comment, a footnote, and you already see part of that on southern Kessex Hills. It's small, and doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. You would need a huge-scale invasion or a war to give any relevancy to it, and we don't have any of that (not like it would make sense for it to be focused on a single small location of people not allied with the Pact). "Destroyers attacking Dominion of Winds" is a small irrelevant group of weak destroyers bothering the tengu guards. Nothing big enough to make them connected to Primordus.

It's theorycrafting, yes, but I think it doesn't make sense because tengu don't fit the Primordus setting aesthetically, and because taking a footnote about some destroyers attacking them as the sole reason to make them go against Primordus isn't solid enough.

#25 VanderBeltLegacy

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:49 PM

View PostLonami, on 21 November 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

You don't get my message, at all. I'll repeat it in list-form:

*Tengu don't make sense in neither Maguuma Wastes nor Depths of Tyria, which would invalidate their presence against Primordus if we consider those two are his main territories. You can't introduce a bird-race in those lands, the same way you can't introduce an aquatic race in a desert land. They don't fit, and the feel disconnected. It's bad design.

*Destroyers attacking Dominion of Winds is eventual and irrelevant. It's just a comment, a footnote, and you already see part of that on southern Kessex Hills. It's small, and doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. You would need a huge-scale invasion or a war to give any relevancy to it, and we don't have any of that (not like it would make sense for it to be focused on a single small location of people not allied with the Pact). "Destroyers attacking Dominion of Winds" is a small irrelevant group of weak destroyers bothering the tengu guards. Nothing big enough to make them connected to Primordus.

It's theorycrafting, yes, but I think it doesn't make sense because tengu don't fit the Primordus setting aesthetically, and because taking a footnote about some destroyers attacking them as the sole reason to make them go against Primordus isn't solid enough.

/ignored

you wanna debate..find a thread/person who does, not even bother reading your post, since you cant read mine

Edited by VanderBeltLegacy, 21 November 2012 - 11:58 PM.


#26 Lonami

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:22 AM

View PostVanderBeltLegacy, on 21 November 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

/ignored

you wanna debate..find a thread/person who does, not even bother reading your post, since you cant read mine

I was just asking for you to make sense out of your post... but if you can't reply and ragequit discussions with /ignore and whatever the first moment you can't explain yourself, goodbye and good riddance, I guess. Theorycrafting is taking an idea an explaining it, not just "it will happen because x", if you don't build anything around it, it won't be theorycrafting.

#27 actionjack

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 05:21 PM

Tossing some ideas in too.

I can see it more as a mid-expansion.  In which opens up about 3 maps, a few story line missions.

But one mechanic I could see done is where the new zone will de-level you, just so to add a sense of character progression.

In more detail, Lets say there are 3 new map zone, and when enter, there is a environmental condition call "Seeping Coldness".  The outer most zone have SC of level1, but the closer you get to "inside", the level increase, where it end with SC of level 10.   Essentially, when you fight in zone, for each level of Seeping Coldness, it have effect  of reducing your stats by level by 3.

So when you are in zone of SC level 1, your lv 80 char will fight much like a lv 77 char (against the lv 80 mob there).  While if you just jump into the inner most zone, you will be like lv 50 char against lv 80+mob and bosses.

However, as you fight monster there, you will level up your resistance against the SC.  So by the end, you will be an effective lv 80 in all SC zone.

This allow added level progression without actual increase in level cap.  Also exclusive equipments and gears can be build around that.  (where you could have SC resistance gears, but also mean make the innerzone much harsher too)

#28 VanderBeltLegacy

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:53 AM

View PostLonami, on 22 November 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

I was just asking for you to make sense out of your post... but if you can't reply and ragequit discussions with /ignore and whatever the first moment you can't explain yourself, goodbye and good riddance, I guess. Theorycrafting is taking an idea an explaining it, not just "it will happen because x", if you don't build anything around it, it won't be theorycrafting.
I responded and explained(twice), your just  upset trying to debate why yours is more of a sound theory, enough said.

Edited by RAD, 28 November 2012 - 07:30 PM.


#29 Cypher9012

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:38 AM

The thing is; in 1127 AE Emporer Usoku created the 'Ministry of Purity' in Cantha, then after a while and some corruption etc...they drove all the non-humans out of Cantha and closed their borders, which is why the Tengu came to Kryta in the first place, and because of previous persecution they became an isolationist/neutral society, because by speaking to the Tengu in LA by the gate into the Dominion of Winds, the Tengu Captain tells you that they're watching and working out who to ally with, so we can work out that their capital city is most likely West of Lion's Arch, and their lands most likely in the Sea of Sorrows (Check out the massive wall running along the East border of Caledon Forest and THISvideo.).

As for the Dragon and area of the next expansion; well it could be Jormag, or it could be Kralkatorrik in Elona as there is just as much opposition to his presence, his champion is already in-game, and his minions (the branded) cover several zones in Ascalon, and just outside Ebonhawke there's even a gate with Ebonhawke Guards that leads into the Crystal Desert, but I admit, Jormag is more likely due to the Norn Storyline and the Durmond Priory Storyline focussing on Jormag right up until you Join the Pact Storyline and turn towards vanquishing Zhaitan.

As for the Mursaat; I'm sure I read somewhere that Anet want to include the Mursaat in GW2 and that the Devs said they have "...something special planned for the Mursaat..." because we know that Lazarus the Dire survived and that: "...He fled to go into recovery, but not before vowing vengeance against "countless generations"..." so expect to see them/him either in the next expansion or sooner

Edited by Cypher9012, 11 December 2012 - 07:05 PM.


#30 Lonami

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 03:37 PM

It's been some time, but no matter I haven't updated the thread, I haven't stopped thinking about new ideas for the expansion.

Thought it was about time to compile them and update the thread :D.

I've added two new big sections: Story and Dungeons. Both are mostly storyline ideas. All the old stuff is now inside Other, where I'll include other future stuff that doesn't fit elsewhere (Some things there could be outdated, I'll go through them and rewrite them later if necessary).

I'll add Zones soon, together with a map showing where everything could be placed.




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