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Solution: How to resurrect dead zones


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#1 jirayasan

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 04:22 PM

There's a thread on GW2 forum and i want to discuss the same thing on GW2Guru and try to find solutions to make the game world more active.

The Solution: How to resurrect dead zones

Every race has a higher-up in their city who hands out missions everyday. These important people will send you across Tyria for different objectives. Missions can vary in difficulty.

* Boss Hunting (Harder foes which can require grouping. Stop them from killing travellers etc)
* Resource Gathering (Iron,Wood, Onions, Skale Hides, Dragon Teeths etc)
* City Crafting (Repairs, Weapon/Armour for Soldiers, Food etc)
* Thin out enemies (Decrease their numbers to prevent war,destroy camps etc)
*  Dungeon Crawling (Seek for treasures and mysterious hidden magic etc)
* Server Pride (Defeat enemies in WvWvW, Conquer keeps etc)
* City Crime (Find Thieves, Infiltrators, Traitors and put them in jail/execute them etc)

These are a few examples on how to make low level zones, mid level zones and high level zones active and also the races cities. This could make the game world even more "living" than it already is.
As it is now the highest level zone, Orr is the most populated zone. Players need something that drives them to visit other zones and populate those zones to make the game a better experience.

#2 YellowMeerkat

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 04:27 PM

This was actually done in Guild Wars. They implemented "Daily activities", exactly what you mentioned. You can find them here: http://wiki.guildwar...aily_activities.

So basically, there's a daily mission you can do for a reward, a bounty for a certain boss, winning a number of matches in PvP etc.

#3 Rowland

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 04:33 PM

I wonder if incorporating lvl 80 content to lower level area's might help or not.
   On the one hand maxed level players would get equal rewards from doing these (temporary) events.
Which will balance out where people are.
   On the other hand lower level players might encounter these events and find them to be an obstacle.
It would help give players the feel they have a way to go in the game (because you see bosses you can't beat yet)
It might lessen the feel of being a hero though.

I like the idea of systematicly making people re-use the whole world, only hanging around in Orr is not a long term solution and neither is just hoping for whole new area's

#4 jonasklk

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 04:34 PM

I really like the idea of hunting "bosses" except i think it should be some of the Champion mobs that can be found throughout each zone.

I really feel disappointed when i go through some sort of weird tunnel in order to find out the only thing by the end of it is a Champion mob that gives absolute nothing of value.
Making it so that the mob you are hunting is not described of where exactly it is would add some extra fun too.

#5 Shadowrose

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 04:49 PM

I think that other than champion bosses (the ones that are showcased miles away under a [group event] tag), there should be other special champion monsters that are hidden in certain places in those maps.

and the drop should be according to your level.

#6 RDarken

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 04:57 PM

Could this work without a real quest system? Given that we dont' have quest givers or really any quests at all, how would it function?

I also worry that it would be too easy to accomplish. Compared to GW 1 where you had to get through a whole zone to find the boss, in GW 2 you can just WP to the closest part, take out the boss or monsters, and leave.

#7 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:03 PM

From what I understand about late-game maps, they are very much unplayable unless there's a fairly massive number of people in them.
Starter areas can function sufficiently well even if you are the only person on the map.

So, with that in mind, even if a more alive world would be fantastic, certain areas need to have people in them more than others. And I don't think the population is massive enough to be able to spread it over all maps.

#8 XSevSpreeX

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:36 PM

It worked at bringing people back to missions in GW1, this could potentially work well in GW2 if Anet figured out how to implement it without actual quests. This could offer karma as a reward also to give people an alternative way to farm it.

#9 Midnight_Tea

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 07:22 PM

I honestly think every map in the game should be reworked so it can scale better. I know MMOs are social games, but not all of us are busybodies or extroverts who feel comfortable asking complete strangers for help when none of our friends are online.

That said, the OP's idea like the Zaishen missions before it should really be done too. It would be nice to move people around in the world in general. Wherever the players are being directed are likely to offer transfusions of them to neighboring zones. I'm contending it should be done for its own sake, though, rather than as a solution to an artificially created problem.

#10 Sandpit

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:42 PM

Just make rewards for ALL zones worth it. Players will always flock to any area where there is profit, if a zone is empty it will always be because it isn't worth it. If you want more players in lower level zones then you have to make the challenge, and the rewards worth it. With the level scaling system it should be possible to make every zone end-game content.

#11 Oryx

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:50 PM

Another idea is that there could be something like notice boards. i really liked this in Final Fantasy XII -> a notice to hunt a really strong monster. maybe with a twist, like it only appears at night, or when the area is cleared of other mobs (because it's shy :P)

for anime fans, something like in fairy tail.. like Bettlerun needs your help, go and investigate.
I think the idea is amazing!

#12 Shamadamun

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:03 PM

Dont know why but this reminds me of the kill collectors in Warhammer Online. You'd kill specific creatures (no real quest required, though) and they'd reward you depending on how many you killed. I really liked that system, though it could've used alot more improvements to be even more rewarding and interesting.

I'd like to see something like this, actual "quests" (as long as Anet did it right instead of just 'kill X 10 times')

Also, 1337th post, I'm never posting again :D

#13 Uhhsam

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:20 PM

What if the maps with the lowest population got a bonus to magic find/karma/gold etc?  Sort of like WvW when you are outnumbered.

#14 darkk zhaitan

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:36 PM

View Postjirayasan, on 07 November 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

There's a thread on GW2 forum and i want to discuss the same thing on GW2Guru and try to find solutions to make the game world more active.

The Solution: How to resurrect dead zones

Every race has a higher-up in their city who hands out missions everyday. These important people will send you across Tyria for different objectives. Missions can vary in difficulty.

* Boss Hunting (Harder foes which can require grouping. Stop them from killing travellers etc)
* Resource Gathering (Iron,Wood, Onions, Skale Hides, Dragon Teeths etc)
* City Crafting (Repairs, Weapon/Armour for Soldiers, Food etc)
* Thin out enemies (Decrease their numbers to prevent war,destroy camps etc)
*  Dungeon Crawling (Seek for treasures and mysterious hidden magic etc)
* Server Pride (Defeat enemies in WvWvW, Conquer keeps etc)
* City Crime (Find Thieves, Infiltrators, Traitors and put them in jail/execute them etc)

These are a few examples on how to make low level zones, mid level zones and high level zones active and also the races cities. This could make the game world even more "living" than it already is.
As it is now the highest level zone, Orr is the most populated zone. Players need something that drives them to visit other zones and populate those zones to make the game a better experience.

View PostOryx, on 07 November 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

Another idea is that there could be something like notice boards. i really liked this in Final Fantasy XII -> a notice to hunt a really strong monster. maybe with a twist, like it only appears at night, or when the area is cleared of other mobs (because it's shy :P)

for anime fans, something like in fairy tail.. like Bettlerun needs your help, go and investigate.
I think the idea is amazing!

I like both ideas very much.  I can see them both working.  However, with the OP's idea, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to have a "council" of sorts situated in LA comprised of high ranking members of the various race's heirarchy.  I say this because your suggestion could beg questions like; If each of the main race's cities had a "higher up in the city" that gave out missions, would they be giving different missions?  Or would they be just for their own races?

Besides just being a a way to get people together, I would also like it if some lore or background to the bosses could be included.

Edited by darkk zhaitan, 07 November 2012 - 11:37 PM.


#15 Jentari

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:19 AM

View Postjirayasan, on 07 November 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

There's a thread on GW2 forum and i want to discuss the same thing on GW2Guru and try to find solutions to make the game world more active.

The Solution: How to resurrect dead zones

Every race has a higher-up in their city who hands out missions everyday. These important people will send you across Tyria for different objectives. Missions can vary in difficulty.

* Boss Hunting (Harder foes which can require grouping. Stop them from killing travellers etc)
* Resource Gathering (Iron,Wood, Onions, Skale Hides, Dragon Teeths etc)
* City Crafting (Repairs, Weapon/Armour for Soldiers, Food etc)
* Thin out enemies (Decrease their numbers to prevent war,destroy camps etc)
*  Dungeon Crawling (Seek for treasures and mysterious hidden magic etc)
* Server Pride (Defeat enemies in WvWvW, Conquer keeps etc)
* City Crime (Find Thieves, Infiltrators, Traitors and put them in jail/execute them etc)

These are a few examples on how to make low level zones, mid level zones and high level zones active and also the races cities. This could make the game world even more "living" than it already is.
As it is now the highest level zone, Orr is the most populated zone. Players need something that drives them to visit other zones and populate those zones to make the game a better experience.

While you have some interesting ideas, there are a few possible problems with them.

With boss hunting, thining out enemies and dungeon crawling, if they have rewards tied to them that people want then they will turn into farming areas, if they dont have rewards that people want then they will become dead zones themselves after the newness wears off.

Actually after looking over your list again all of them with possibly the exception to the wvw one will either become farming places or for the most part dead/not played for the reason I already gave.

The wvw one, not sure how you intend for this as there is alreay achievements for these and there are server rewards for wvw.

I have to say that unless something is going to give either high gold amounts or unique items then the replay on those things will drop off fast and the down side of giving high gold or unique items is it will effect the economy and not in a good way.

#16 Oryx

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:24 AM

View PostJentari, on 08 November 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

While you have some interesting ideas, there are a few possible problems with them.

With boss hunting, thining out enemies and dungeon crawling, if they have rewards tied to them that people want then they will turn into farming areas, if they dont have rewards that people want then they will become dead zones themselves after the newness wears off.

Actually after looking over your list again all of them with possibly the exception to the wvw one will either become farming places or for the most part dead/not played for the reason I already gave.

The wvw one, not sure how you intend for this as there is alreay achievements for these and there are server rewards for wvw.

I have to say that unless something is going to give either high gold amounts or unique items then the replay on those things will drop off fast and the down side of giving high gold or unique items is it will effect the economy and not in a good way.

But to avoid turning those areas into farming areas, the bosses timers would be longer than usual. an hour or 1,5h. then, someone might come, the boss will be up in 30min, and will do events in that zone for those 30min.

#17 Var

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:35 AM

View PostJentari, on 08 November 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

I have to say that unless something is going to give either high gold amounts or unique items then the replay on those things will drop off fast and the down side of giving high gold or unique items is it will effect the economy and not in a good way.

The system already exists from GW1, introduce tokens that are awarded for completing these "daily hunts" (and you can even add it as another tab under H-Achievements, "Daily Hunts" and restructure the Daily Achievement to be less "hunt" focused). Use the tokens to buy neat things like a 20-slot bag (like in GW1) or consumables or even BLTC keys, or something. So long as the reward is somewhat tangible (and desirable) and not too far from impossible, people will do them.

If it is a daily achievement style hunt, where the reward is awarded to you much the same way completing the daily is, then over-farming won't be an issue. People will get together, kill the mob, and be done. Passers-by will have an incentive to help even if they've completed it just because there will be interest and you still get money/karma from it (though this should be buffed for these sorts of mobs along with their general loot table).

Edited by Var, 08 November 2012 - 12:37 AM.


#18 Ardeni

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 04:49 AM

View Postjirayasan, on 07 November 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

There's a thread on GW2 forum and i want to discuss the same thing on GW2Guru and try to find solutions to make the game world more active.

The Solution: How to resurrect dead zones

Every race has a higher-up in their city who hands out missions everyday. These important people will send you across Tyria for different objectives. Missions can vary in difficulty.

* Boss Hunting (Harder foes which can require grouping. Stop them from killing travellers etc)
* Resource Gathering (Iron,Wood, Onions, Skale Hides, Dragon Teeths etc)
* City Crafting (Repairs, Weapon/Armour for Soldiers, Food etc)
* Thin out enemies (Decrease their numbers to prevent war,destroy camps etc)
*  Dungeon Crawling (Seek for treasures and mysterious hidden magic etc)
* Server Pride (Defeat enemies in WvWvW, Conquer keeps etc)
* City Crime (Find Thieves, Infiltrators, Traitors and put them in jail/execute them etc)

These are a few examples on how to make low level zones, mid level zones and high level zones active and also the races cities. This could make the game world even more "living" than it already is.
As it is now the highest level zone, Orr is the most populated zone. Players need something that drives them to visit other zones and populate those zones to make the game a better experience.

Great idea, but I just wonder how the bolded parts would help in getting more people to lower level areas. The reward of doing these activities should be something, which makes them worth doing, though. Otherwise they wouldn't be much of a help since not many people do things just for fun (or they don't think that doing some of those things is more fun than some other part of the game).

#19 Niv Mizzet

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 05:40 AM

Waypoint fee should be lift or the reward for completing the task better reward a good chunk of cash. Waypoint fee is one reasons why I don't revisit those low level areas. If the exact location of the boss is not specify, hunting for it and having to pay waypoint fee will make me not want to do it daily. Even if you ask on map chat and other players point you to the nearest waypiont, that waypoint may be on the opposite corner of the map.

#20 XSevSpreeX

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 06:10 AM

To get around the lack of a quest system, maybe the daily activity will be delivered by mail, then the reward will be given by mail and be spent in towns? I'm not sure if there will be problems sending out that much mail simultaneously though.

#21 alucard13mmfmj

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:11 AM

Dead zones make the game look bad and depressing.

I dont like daily quests with specific tasks. It gets repetitive tbo. The current daily is nice because you finish it without knowing it lol.

I am thinking a 3 stage boss. stage 1 boss spawns on a random 1-20 map. stage 2 boss spawns on another 1-20 map. stage 3 boss spawns on another 1-20 map. Each stage gives better items than the previous. Now you might say, oh.. vets will just do nothing until stage 3. Well, it would act like a pre-event that would take a lot of people to do. It should be randomly timed too so people would constantly have to scout those areas.

There could be staged bosses in the other maps level range maps too.

#22 zwei2stein

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:58 AM

* Stop scaling waypoint fees to character level. If going to low level area ends up being gold sink, i will avoid it.

* Merge areas across servers. Make use of old district mechanic rather than server mechanic.

No amount of incentives will result in evenly spread and healthy population.

People will pick the best repeatable reward and stick to doing that. If there are multiple rewards worth it, it will just result in farm route. Also, zones would be "fake full" - people only concentrated on their reward and not available for other gameplay.

Single time incentive will quickly dry:

For eample, say we did this:

* Scale map competition rewards a bit with level, examples:
- Queensdale completition as L80 would give you exotic L14 items
- Queensdale completition as L80 would give you masterwork L80 items.
- Queensdale completition as L80 would give you rare L47 items.
* Give relevant completition rewards
- Level-scales runes or sigils
- Rare crating materials

People would complete area just one to get reward and move on. And that assumes it would be worth it to get random item this way.

Daily rewards for more freeform activities (Complete 5 events in Harathi, Gather 20 nodes in Caledon, Kill 60 foes in Diessa) would still result in fake population focused on one thing and people leaving for more profitable areas asap they complete it.

You need to rely on population of people who are actually leveling in those zones and consolidate that population if it is too low - there are dozens of servers. If zone has population of 5 players on each, consolidated US zone would have healthy 125 people - enough to make gameplay smooth again.

There is reason why "districting" in GW1 was awesome - it took population and concentrated it as necessary.

#23 Fenice_86

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:28 AM

what really scares me is that ppl already thinking about this kind of solutions now...
In guild wars 1 passed 5-6 years before this kind of things were implemented to fill a bit the boredome...
In guild wars 2 after 3-4 months? meh :(

#24 Solid_Gold

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:38 AM

View Postzwei2stein, on 08 November 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

* Stop scaling waypoint fees to character level. If going to low level area ends up being gold sink, i will avoid it.

This, waypoint costs are stupid and not necessary, it just tends to break the game down to a single player game.

View PostFenice_86, on 08 November 2012 - 09:28 AM, said:

what really scares me is that ppl already thinking about this kind of solutions now...
In guild wars 1 passed 5-6 years before this kind of things were implemented to fill a bit the boredome...
In guild wars 2 after 3-4 months? meh :(

ArenaNet had experience of this with GW1 and should have taken it into consideration, it shouldn't be a solution, it should already be done.

#25 Evans

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:06 AM

I wonder about the realisation of such a thing and I can't help but laugh at the complexity of it all.

You want to draw more people to the lower level areas and that's fine, but at what cost and to what purpose?
The low level areas are made to accommodate low level character. If you are going to bombard these places with high leveled characters, then they are going to ruin a lot of content for the low level ones (e.g. killing off too many foes too quickly, making low leveled characters contribution to DE minimal and pretty much destroying their 'heroic' feeling).

Also, by adding events to low level areas like that, you'll get a very localised increase in activity, exactly where the event takes place. Do you honestly believe people will wander the area in wait of the event? At best they'll go farm some low level monsters for tier 1 ingredients, but that's about it I'm afraid.

Seriously, the low level areas are so chuck full of events and npc's that it never feel empty to me, and they should at all times be formed around new, low level characters.

One of the only ways I can see low level areas be interesting without breaking the zone is by implementing rare, very random, encounters (like the Skritt thief) that hand out level relevant rewards and work to a title or something. That way you can draw people in with no promises. If you make set events in a set place, only that part is going to be active and it will ruin the place for low levels.

The game needs more high level areas first imo, and everything new added will most likely be just that.

#26 zwei2stein

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:15 AM

View PostFenice_86, on 08 November 2012 - 09:28 AM, said:

what really scares me is that ppl already thinking about this kind of solutions now...
In guild wars 1 passed 5-6 years before this kind of things were implemented to fill a bit the boredome...
In guild wars 2 after 3-4 months? meh :(

It is nature of the beast.

GW1 can enjoyed with 4-8 other "players" and only one had to be human - it is perfectly possible to play when you are the only person playing. Getting 7 other people was never truly hard - as far as rest of world was concerned, 8 people in group were optimal and individual players does not require more logged in.

GW2, if best when you have about 5 players nearby at all times and about 10 when event is active - which translates to requirement for hundred(s) players scattered around zone so that when you are exploring, you have constant company.

GW2 with 8 people in zone is painfully empty while GW1 with 8 people in zone was perfect.

GW2 just requires population huge by any other MMO standards - what is optimal population in GW2 would be overcrowded in WoW and what is optimal population for WoW zone is nowhere near enough in GW2.

#27 Fenice_86

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:19 AM

View Postzwei2stein, on 08 November 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

It is nature of the beast.

GW1 can enjoyed with 4-8 other "players" and only one had to be human - it is perfectly possible to play when you are the only person playing. Getting 7 other people was never truly hard - as far as rest of world was concerned, 8 people in group were optimal and individual players does not require more logged in.

GW2, if best when you have about 5 players nearby at all times and about 10 when event is active - which translates to requirement for hundred(s) players scattered around zone so that when you are exploring, you have constant company.

GW2 with 8 people in zone is painfully empty while GW1 with 8 people in zone was perfect.

GW2 just requires population huge by any other MMO standards - what is optimal population in GW2 would be overcrowded in WoW and what is optimal population for WoW zone is nowhere near enough in GW2.

And all of this leads to? what's ur conclusion? ^_^

#28 shanaeri rynale

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:20 AM

View Postzwei2stein, on 08 November 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

It is nature of the beast.

GW1 can enjoyed with 4-8 other "players" and only one had to be human - it is perfectly possible to play when you are the only person playing. Getting 7 other people was never truly hard - as far as rest of world was concerned, 8 people in group were optimal and individual players does not require more logged in.

GW2, if best when you have about 5 players nearby at all times and about 10 when event is active - which translates to requirement for hundred(s) players scattered around zone so that when you are exploring, you have constant company.

GW2 with 8 people in zone is painfully empty while GW1 with 8 people in zone was perfect.

GW2 just requires population huge by any other MMO standards - what is optimal population in GW2 would be overcrowded in WoW and what is optimal population for WoW zone is nowhere near enough in GW2.

Exactly. This is another reason why the server architecture adopted by GW2 is such a poor decision on Anet's part. GW1's district system had the advantage of funnelling people into the same area until it go too full whereby it then created a 'named overflow' area people could choose to go to. GW2's system just waters down the effect outlined above thus creating these 'ghost zones'.

The conclusion IMHO is that because of mine and the above posters points server merges are inevitable with all the negative stuff that entails and that server merges would have been avoidable had a GW1 approach been used.

Edited by shanaeri rynale, 08 November 2012 - 10:22 AM.


#29 zwei2stein

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:25 AM

View PostFenice_86, on 08 November 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

And all of this leads to? what's ur conclusion? ^_^

My conclusion is that

a) Sky is not falling - people complaining about lack of people to play is not sign of game failing.

B) Server architecture needs rework because it is at odds with how game content is built - "worlds" hinder gameplay instead of enhancing it. And by hinder i meant butcher.

#30 Fenice_86

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:28 AM

I agree that "sky is not falling" but i feel GW2 is a lot less "friendly" when it comes up to random group ppl to do stuff around the world than GW1... i mean, you find ppl ONLY for dungeons and a really few major events in orr (and anyone play for himself, not surely for the fun to play with "you")

I miss the feeling of being a team when doing missions, co-op, runs, anything




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