Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help
* * * * * 2 votes

On the Origin of the Human Gods of Tyria

gods humans arah cantha

  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 Kuldebar

Kuldebar

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 138 posts
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:08 AM

The purpose of this topic is for entertaining discussion.


The Human Gods transported the human population to their new home, the planet Tyria.

Orr is believed to be the first region colonized by humans; specifically Arah was founded by the Human Gods while "normal" humans colonized Cantha.

The human Gods were once ancient spacefarers that brought the humans to the world long ago. It appears that some of them had visited Tyria before the arrival of human colonists. If so, perhaps that would be indicative of a preparatory staging mission. There were already quite a few intelligent races well established on the planet, perhaps by "Gods" of their own.

A grand experiment, or a last refuge?
Close your eyes, you can almost see the prominent crew members:
  • Balthazar: Security, Weaponry, and Armory Chief.
  • Dwayna: Medical and Life Support Officer.
  • Dhuum: Cryogenics Officer
  • Grenth: Cryogenics and Embryonic Sustainment Technician
  • Abaddon: Enforcement and Intelligence Officer
  • Melandru: Biotechnology Officer
And the lovely and alluring, almost mesmerizing, twins:
  • Lyssa: Morale Officer
  • Ilya: Psychologist
Don't fall for the false dichotomy that Magic and Science are different things. They are not. They are on the same continuum. Science becomes magic, magic becomes a science. The science of magic is the mystery behind everything.

We can call this thing metaphysics, or if you prefer, the Eternal Alchemy, the Theory of Everything.

The Human Gods were once human. Something occurred upon arriving to the world of Tyria.

Tyria already had quite a dramatic history before the humans arrived. Tyria, like Dune's Arrakis, clearly has some force at work.

Did the first humans stumble upon ancient artifacts or technology?

The Six Aspects of Tyria reflected in discord with the Six Elder Dragons.

Were they responsible for their ascendancy to Godhood?

By what mechanism did they each take upon one of the Six Aspects of Tyria?

Therein, lies a tale.

The first documented mention of any of the Human Gods was in 115 BE, 670 years after the arrival of humans to the planet.
  • Humans can become Gods. (The Kormir Ascendancy)
  • The Gods are referred to as Human Gods not charr, or norn or asuran Gods.
  • The Human Gods brought humans to Tyria. (see link for Human Gods)
  • Dwayna and a human have a child.
  • The Gods aren't omnipotent or omniscient. (see link for Human Gods)
The passage of time and human lives have made things less clear and the names and attributes of the Gods have been worn down to their archetypal elements.

Is this to say the Gods are not real or not truly Gods?

No, they became Gods, perhaps in much the same way as Kormir in Nightfall.


Beyond mere sentience, there is something else, something wonderful.

Quote

The earliest deity who is still recognized as a god is Dwayna, whose scriptures were written in 115 BE (see GW2 Wiki: Six Human Gods)
That historical record is approximately 100 years after humans started living on the continent of Tyria. (reference timelines GW Wiki/GW2 Wiki)

The point being that humans are already well established and keeping history in some manner because the human colonized Cantha has been in existence for over 600 years:

Quote

Canthan clans unite under Kaineng Tah, first Lord Emperor of the Dragon. Construction on the first Raisu Palace begins in 510 BE.

I favor the idea that humans were already civilized and literate upon their arrival on the world of Tyria. Cultures that have emperors and build grand palaces also have some form of record keeping or writing.

Humans had the sophistication to start the Canthan calendar in 510 BE with inception of the first Emperor, this was 276 years after humans arrived on planet.

I posit that humans didn't write anything about the Six Human Gods prior to 115 BE because the Gods were not visibly active among them until around that time.

So, the period of time that elapses from the arrival of humans until the first historical record of a God, is rather curious.


Note: this is a cleaned up cross post of my post on reddit here.

I am posting this here on the advice of Kereminde on reddit, blame him.


Edited by Kuldebar, 09 November 2012 - 03:55 AM.
Double post.


#2 Alexwentworth

Alexwentworth

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 117 posts
  • Location:California
  • Profession:Engineer
  • Server:Yak’s Bend

Posted 09 November 2012 - 01:01 AM

Hahaha I had so much fun reading this! Great job Kuldebar!

I can't say i find your theory likely, but i love that it is thought-provoking and self-consistent!

#3 Mournblade

Mournblade

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 209 posts
  • Location:Jumpn yr puzzlz
  • Guild Tag:[DAWN]
  • Server:Stormbluff Isle

Posted 09 November 2012 - 02:45 AM

"I favor the idea that humans were already civilized and literate upon their arrival on the world of Tyria."

Not quite civilized, or they would have kept better records of what happened from the very beginning. If you transplanted a city of people from our time/place into a strange new world, someone would immediately begin to document their experiences and their past history.

Excellent article. I loved reading it. :D

#4 Kuldebar

Kuldebar

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 138 posts
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 09 November 2012 - 03:11 AM

View PostMournblade, on 09 November 2012 - 02:45 AM, said:

"I favor the idea that humans were already civilized and literate upon their arrival on the world of Tyria."

Not quite civilized, or they would have kept better records of what happened from the very beginning. If you transplanted a city of people from our time/place into a strange new world, someone would immediately begin to document their experiences and their past history.

Excellent article. I loved reading it. :D

Thank you and good points.

Also, the Humans Gods may have taken a few centuries to become Gods, so it might not be a matter of no written accounts but only that it had not happened yet.


I would offer these two scenarios regarding recorded history:

-Defecation Occurs:

Information was being kept on technological devices, these devices at some point became unsustainable.

-Social Engineering:

Humanity may have been settled in a manner of a "reset" or blank slate in order to set its course and destiny leaving old baggage behind.

Edited by Kuldebar, 09 November 2012 - 03:16 AM.


#5 The Greyhawk

The Greyhawk

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 608 posts
  • Location:Minnesota
  • Profession:Ranger
  • Guild Tag:[omni]
  • Server:Stormbluff Isle

Posted 09 November 2012 - 03:22 AM

I'm sorry, but I have a general dislike of this kind of thing.  Your theory is well thought out and well written, but I find the idea of an advanced, science fiction, like background for humanity to be...depressing.  I rather hope that this doesn't turn out to be the case.

Out of curiosity, you wouldn't happen to be the author of "Finding Doric's Line" and "The Throne of Pandemonium"?  He had a similar theory.

Edited by The Greyhawk, 09 November 2012 - 03:23 AM.


#6 Artimus

Artimus

    Pale Tree Seedling

  • New Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 09 November 2012 - 03:28 AM

Hey this is my post:
https://forum-en.gui...-Dragons/first#

I think we need to talk more. I also believe the gods to be space travelers in a similar sense. I think wherever they came from they were part of an advanced race that may have been human or similar to humans. Who knows what the reason was that they left their home but they manipulated Tyria to be a planet fit for the race they brought with them.

In Guild Wars 2 the Jotun describe the early days of humans as very similar to how the Grawl are now so, the gods were more advanced then the humans they brought with them.

Also the way the brought The Forgotten to Tyria first is very interesting.

#7 Kuldebar

Kuldebar

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 138 posts
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 09 November 2012 - 03:34 AM

View PostThe Greyhawk, on 09 November 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

Out of curiosity, you wouldn't happen to be the author of "Finding Doric's Line" and "The Throne of Pandemonium"?  He had a similar theory.

No, but are they posted in these forums?

View PostArtimus, on 09 November 2012 - 03:28 AM, said:

Hey this is my post:
https://forum-en.gui...-Dragons/first#

I think we need to talk more. I also believe the gods to be space travelers in a similar sense. I think wherever they came from they were part of an advanced race that may have been human or similar to humans. Who knows what the reason was that they left their home but they manipulated Tyria to be a planet fit for the race they brought with them.

In Guild Wars 2 the Jotun describe the early days of humans as very similar to how the Grawl are now so, the gods were more advanced then the humans they brought with them.

Also the way the brought The Forgotten to Tyria first is very interesting.

I think I posted on your official Forums Lore Thread Topic. I hadn't gotten around to how the humans became Gods, but it appears you are addressing that...the mechanism of the process so to speak.

Edited by Kuldebar, 09 November 2012 - 03:36 AM.


#8 Lol Lol Lol Guy

Lol Lol Lol Guy

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 545 posts
  • Location:Florida
  • Profession:Ranger
  • Guild Tag:[iSPY]
  • Server:Devona's Rest

Posted 09 November 2012 - 03:39 AM

View PostThe Greyhawk, on 09 November 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

I'm sorry, but I have a general dislike of this kind of thing.  Your theory is well thought out and well written, but I find the idea of an advanced, science fiction, like background for humanity to be...depressing.  I rather hope that this doesn't turn out to be the case.

Out of curiosity, you wouldn't happen to be the author of "Finding Doric's Line" and "The Throne of Pandemonium"?  He had a similar theory.

This is how I feel. It's a well thought out idea, but I just cant stand the thought of such a weird twist to it. I really doubt Anet even knows. They just wrote the background, but did not decide what it is. That is how I like it. Never answered, so we can all come up with our own theories ( IE mine being they really are just super magical mega laser power gods)

#9 Konig Des Todes

Konig Des Todes

    Manager of the Void

  • Site Contributors
  • 9534 posts
  • Location:Inside you.
  • Guild Tag:[Lore]

Posted 10 November 2012 - 05:36 AM

Technically, Cantha was established a few hundred years prior to humanity's arrival on continental Tyria (this is a bit of a wtf placement in lore ever since we've been told Arah is where the Six Gods first arrived on Tyria, especially given we were told humanity's homeland may be south of Cantha). Secondly, past indications lead the Six Gods' arrival to be approximately 500 years prior to Cantha's establishment, though this bit of information is a tad questionable - and here's why:

From the timeline, we're given these three dates:
1769 BE - The Forgotten arrive in Tyria.
786 BE - Humans appear in Cantha for the first time.
205 BE - Humans appear on Tyrian continent.

Originally, we were told that the Forgotten were also brought to the world by the Six Gods, and not just humans. However, we've since learned that this might not be the case - as the Forgotten were around during the Elder Dragons' previous rise, estimated to be 10,000 BE. So originally, we were given the indication that the Six Gods arrived no later than 1769 BE, though this may, as said, no longer be the case. It's a fairly gray area in the game's history.

But on your theory... funny, similar to something I jokingly thought up once, but unlikely in my opinion (also, Lyss, not Lyssa).

Oh, and the reason why they're also referred to as the Six Human Gods is because the main race that worships them (note: not the sole race) are humans. We know of some centaurs who follow Balthazar, dwarves who follow Grenth or Dwayna, the forgotten following all six, possibly some naga following Dwayna, and possibly quaggans following Melandru (under their own name for her). The reason isn't because they're all ascended humans - given Dwayna had wings, I doubt she was human.

Durmand Priory|Library of Whispers|GuildMag
"...I received a 400-page bible document for the world..." - J.Robert King
I want. I want bad.


#10 Kuldebar

Kuldebar

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 138 posts
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 10 November 2012 - 07:43 AM

We know there have been predecessor pantheons before the current ones.

This means that the pantheons change out but the Six Aspects are the "divine" source of their power. Essentially, a mantle of Godhood.

The Six Human Gods are highly connected to humanity, I think this is because humans formed the current pantheon. I don't get to distracted by "wings" or Abaddon's Mask, they have been heavily involved in humanity's plights from the day they arrived.

The Six Gods are linked closely in almost every way to humans:
  • The near simultaneous arrival on Tyria of humans and the Gods
  • The Six Human Gods are focused more on humans than other races
  • Two of the Gods that we know of have blatant human origins: Grenth and Kormir
  • Interestingly, Grenth represents two variations of the mechanism, his demi-god status and his later ascent to Godhood by overthrowing Dhuum.
  • The Six Human Gods did not immediately make themselves known to humans, the first mention is 670 years after humans settled in Cantha
  • The Six Aspects of Power and the Elder Dragons existed on Tyria long before the Human Gods
  • It appears that other races recognized the Six Aspects, but not necessarily the Six Gods, in their own specific cultures

Edited by Kuldebar, 10 November 2012 - 07:45 AM.


#11 Daenerys

Daenerys

    Secretly Christopher Walken

  • Moderators
  • 484 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin
  • Profession:Necromancer
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 10 November 2012 - 06:55 PM

View PostKuldebar, on 10 November 2012 - 07:43 AM, said:

We know there have been predecessor pantheons before the current ones.

This means that the pantheons change out but the Six Aspects are the "divine" source of their power. Essentially, a mantle of Godhood.

The Six Human Gods are highly connected to humanity, I think this is because humans formed the current pantheon. I don't get to distracted by "wings" or Abaddon's Mask, they have been heavily involved in humanity's plights from the day they arrived.

The Six Gods are linked closely in almost every way to humans:
  • The near simultaneous arrival on Tyria of humans and the Gods
  • The Six Human Gods are focused more on humans than other races
  • Two of the Gods that we know of have blatant human origins: Grenth and Kormir
  • Interestingly, Grenth represents two variations of the mechanism, his demi-god status and his later ascent to Godhood by overthrowing Dhuum.
  • The Six Human Gods did not immediately make themselves known to humans, the first mention is 670 years after humans settled in Cantha
  • The Six Aspects of Power and the Elder Dragons existed on Tyria long before the Human Gods
  • It appears that other races recognized the Six Aspects, but not necessarily the Six Gods, in their own specific cultures
Where in confirmed lore does it say that the Six arrived at the same time as the humans? The Six supposedly brought humans to Tyria, and I believe that the Six had visited prior to that. Humans first showed up on Tyria (continent) in 205 BE... I think the gods were there before.

Your second point is a bit closer to the right track, but is somewhat void in this context. That's just like the Eternal Alchemy is so focused on the Asura, and the Spirits of the Wild are focused on the Norn, and the Pale Tree is focused on Sylvari. Sure, these religions exist, but I believe they each think they affect ALL races of Tyria. Ex: The Spirits interact with non-Norn beings. It's rather obvious that the Six Human Gods would have something to do with humanity, but that's all it means. Just because the Spirits are the basis of the Norn religion doesn't mean that there's anything else really there (within this context at the very least).

Assuming that Malchor is indeed Grenth's father, I don't know if he would be considered half human or not. We don't know how he was actually conceived... it could've just been some way similar to Athena. Malchor only saw Dwayna once, and that was to see what she looked like to sculpt her. Dwayna is the goddess of life (among other things). What is there to say she didn't create a life that would act as (and count as) her son? That's purely theory, though.

Questions? Comments? Conversation? Drop me a message!


#12 Konig Des Todes

Konig Des Todes

    Manager of the Void

  • Site Contributors
  • 9534 posts
  • Location:Inside you.
  • Guild Tag:[Lore]

Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:35 PM

View PostKuldebar, on 10 November 2012 - 07:43 AM, said:

We know there have been predecessor pantheons before the current ones.
Actually, nothing indicates (currently) that Dwayna, Balthazar, and Melandru had predecessors - or Dhuum, Lyssa, or Abaddon's unknown predecessor for that matter, though the former three hold a stronger case of not having predecessors.

It's only Abaddon, Grenth, and Kormir who are known - or even implied - to have had predecessors.

View PostKuldebar, on 10 November 2012 - 07:43 AM, said:

The Six Human Gods are highly connected to humanity, I think this is because humans formed the current pantheon. I don't get to distracted by "wings" or Abaddon's Mask, they have been heavily involved in humanity's plights from the day they arrived.

The Six Gods are linked closely in almost every way to humans:
  • The near simultaneous arrival on Tyria of humans and the Gods
  • The Six Human Gods are focused more on humans than other races
  • Two of the Gods that we know of have blatant human origins: Grenth and Kormir
  • Interestingly, Grenth represents two variations of the mechanism, his demi-god status and his later ascent to Godhood by overthrowing Dhuum.
  • The Six Human Gods did not immediately make themselves known to humans, the first mention is 670 years after humans settled in Cantha
  • The Six Aspects of Power and the Elder Dragons existed on Tyria long before the Human Gods
  • It appears that other races recognized the Six Aspects, but not necessarily the Six Gods, in their own specific cultures
The Six Gods didn't arrive at the same time as humans. They arrived before (though "not by much" as Jeff said - but to a being that does not age such as the gods, how long is "not by much"?).

Unlike Abaddon's mask, which is a mask - from sharp teeth to tentacle hair - Dwayna's wings are part of the statue which is supposed to show Dwayna's true form. They're also attributed to Melandru and Grenth at least once each, and if one were to note there are female humanoid winged statues in the Rift, specifically the Hall of Heroes. I don't think this is all coincidental, given Grenth is Dwayna's son and Melandru and Dwayna both are among the three oldest known gods (the third being Balthazar).

And if you want to get technical, only Balthazar's knowingly more focused on humans than the others, with Dwayna and Melandru wanting co-existence (even integrating themselves into other cultures, such as the charr legend of Melandru) and the other three's stances being unknown outside Lyssa living among humans to "sooth their pain."

However, even if the Six Gods do favor humanity more than anything else, how does that provide evidence for the Six being human? Of course the Six would be more interactive with humanity than the other races considering the Six brought humanity to Tyria. But that doesn't mean the Six are humans that ascended - we don't know diddlysquat about the world the Six and humanity came from.

Oh, and, please provide a source for Grenth having human origins. He's the son of Dwayna and a mortal sculptor - but it's never said his father was human.

And we don't know when the Six Gods made themselves known to humans. While the oldest outright date given is indeed the Scriptures of Dwayna, dated 115 BE, there are three facts about this which disproves it being a fact of being the oldest mention:
1) We don't know if that's when the scriptures were written, or when the event took place. (likely the latter)
2) Nothing says that's the first interaction; given the fact Doric knew who Dwayna was and was beseeching her, it's highly likely humanity knew of Dwayna before hand.
3) In an interview with Ree Soesbee, we were told that the Six Gods brought humanity to Orr. In An Empire Divided, though this is in lore disputed, Kaineng Tah was said to have been given a revelation from the gods - respectively, these events happened in 205 BE and approximately 510 BE; that is to say, 110 years and 405 years before the Scriptures of Dwayna respectively.

And where do you get that the "six aspects of power" existed on Tyria before the gods arrived? Who's to say they weren't gods when they arrived?

View PostMockingjay74, on 10 November 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Malchor only saw Dwayna once, and that was to see what she looked like to sculpt her. Dwayna is the goddess of life (among other things).
Correction: at least twice. Dwayna was the one who hired Malchor to make the statues, so Malchor saw her then and again when sculpting her. Though I don't think it's ever said that was the first time Malchor saw Dwayna either, so they could have met - even if in disguise - before hand.

Given that Dwayna, like Lyssa, is known to have pretended to have been human in the past (specifically, as a dude - yup, Dwayna's a cross dresser), it's possible she did so on more than one occasion, for any kind of reason. I would not doubt that the gods disguised themselves as commoners just to live among their people every now and then, since as gods they couldn't be seen by them without risking blinding them.

Durmand Priory|Library of Whispers|GuildMag
"...I received a 400-page bible document for the world..." - J.Robert King
I want. I want bad.


#13 Kuldebar

Kuldebar

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 138 posts
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:26 AM

View PostMockingjay74, on 10 November 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Where in confirmed lore does it say that the Six arrived at the same time as the humans? The Six supposedly brought humans to Tyria, and I believe that the Six had visited prior to that. Humans first showed up on Tyria (continent) in 205 BE... I think the gods were there before.

Here, for one:

Quote

The gods predate the humans, but not by much.
-Jeff Grubb – World Designer and Writer for Guild Wars 2
and:

Quote

The Six Human Gods are a group of deities worshiped by the humans of Tyria, Cantha and Elona. The extent of their powers is not known, but it is known they are not omniscient, and by their own very nature as a pantheon each is not omnipotent. At an unknown time after the writing of the Tome of Rubicon, they arrived on Tyria and brought the humans with them (although humans believe that they created Tyria, and the charr also have legends of Melandru creating the world), but from where is not known. Their age is also unknown, but it is known that the current pantheon is not the first, and that it is not as old as the Elder Dragons.
-http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Human_Gods

View PostKonig Des Todes, on 10 November 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

Actually, nothing indicates (currently) that Dwayna, Balthazar, and Melandru had predecessors - or Dhuum, Lyssa, or Abaddon's unknown predecessor for that matter, though the former three hold a stronger case of not having predecessors.

Except for that "the current pantheon is not the first" as quoted above and "they arrived on Tyria and brought the humans with them".

View PostKonig Des Todes, on 10 November 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

And we don't know when the Six Gods made themselves known to humans. While the oldest outright date given is indeed the Scriptures of Dwayna, dated 115 BE, there are three facts about this which disproves it being a fact of being the oldest mention:
1) We don't know if that's when the scriptures were written, or when the event took place. (likely the latter)
2) Nothing says that's the first interaction; given the fact Doric knew who Dwayna was and was beseeching her, it's highly likely humanity knew of Dwayna before hand.
3) In an interview with Ree Soesbee, we were told that the Six Gods brought humanity to Orr. In An Empire Divided, though this is in lore disputed, Kaineng Tah was said to have been given a revelation from the gods - respectively, these events happened in 205 BE and approximately 510 BE; that is to say, 110 years and 405 years before the Scriptures of Dwayna respectively.

I don't need to nail down a time when the humans recognized the Human Gods, I only point out that 670 years of recorded history after the arrival of humans made no mention of them. It doesn't mean the Gods didn't exist at some point during that 670 years but it hints strongly that they weren't Gods when humans landed on the world.

Considering that the Six Human Gods setup shop in Arah upon arrival on the world of Tyria, I wouldn't be surprised if some humans lived there with them while the rest lived in Cantha.

Consider this statement:

Quote

Legends of the charr say that Melandru was the one who created Tyria though this is false, and human legends say that she was the third of the Six Gods to arrive on the world. She is the oldest and wisest of the Six Gods
-http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Melandru

The Human Gods represent the latest in an unknown line of pantheons of the Gods on Tyria.

Edited by Kuldebar, 11 November 2012 - 12:27 AM.


#14 Konig Des Todes

Konig Des Todes

    Manager of the Void

  • Site Contributors
  • 9534 posts
  • Location:Inside you.
  • Guild Tag:[Lore]

Posted 11 November 2012 - 01:16 AM

"the current pantheon" is actually fairly ambiguous - it could mean a majority (50%+) of the group as in "Dwayna, Grenth, Balthazar, Melandru, Lyssa, and Kormir are not the originals, but Dwayna, Dhuum, Balthazar, Melandru, Lyssa, and Abaddon's predecessors are", which is true, or it could mean all members had predecessors.

As for when humans arrived "with the gods" - it's outright known that the gods came first. How much time between then and the humans arriving is unknown, but it is not confirmed to be at the exact same time - and in fact cannot be, as I've said before considering the Six Gods arrived at Arah, but humans did not.

View PostKuldebar, on 11 November 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

It doesn't mean the Gods didn't exist at some point during that 670 years but it hints strongly that they weren't Gods when humans landed on the world.
Hmmm, not really. As I said, we are told that - while dubious - Kaineng Tah received a message for the gods to unite Cantha. This means that there were gods in approximately 510 BE (source). The reports of this claim are contemporary - that is to say, around the time of 510, scholars made the claim that Kaineng Tah received a message from the gods. Ergo, regardless of whether the event actually occurred, humanity knew of the Six Gods around the time of 510 BE.

Therefore, from this, we thus have a gap of 276 years between earliest known human history (which is not when they arrived on the world) and the first confirmed mention of the gods.

View PostKuldebar, on 11 November 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

Considering that the Six Human Gods setup shop in Arah upon arrival on the world of Tyria, I wouldn't be surprised if some humans lived there with them while the rest lived in Cantha.
Except we're outright told humanity didn't arrive on continental Tyria - or Elona - until 205 BE. Per the official timeline since Prophecies itself.

And, uh, that last line you pulled from the wiki - something I wrote regarding it, btw - and does not prove anything in regards to a line of pantheons. It merely means that a legend the charr have on the creation of the world (that Melandru did it) is wrong, because she arrived on the world well after it existed (and was the third of the Six Gods to arrive - first being Dwayna, who is credited with bringing humanity, second being Balthazar, who is credited for why humanity waged war to claim land).

Durmand Priory|Library of Whispers|GuildMag
"...I received a 400-page bible document for the world..." - J.Robert King
I want. I want bad.


#15 Daenerys

Daenerys

    Secretly Christopher Walken

  • Moderators
  • 484 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin
  • Profession:Necromancer
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 11 November 2012 - 06:29 PM

Quick question. I was reading the EOTN thread and was thinking about the Forgotten when I thought of this thread again. I knew that the Forgotten were essentially the Six's "helpers" and that the six human gods brought the Forgotten to Tyria (supposedly). So I looked at their page on the Wiki and it says that they were said to have been brought to Tyria in 1769 Before Exodus. According to the timeline, humans first popped up on Tyria in 205 BE... 1500 years after the Forgotten arrived. Of course they traveled to continental Tyria after their first location of Cantha (or south of it). Canthan records started being written in 786 BE, roughly one thousand years after the Forgotten are said to have arrived. I doubt that the Canthans waited over 1,000 years to begin writing their history and activities. If my lore and thought process is correct, it would suggest that the Six knew of Tyria (planet or continent) a noticeably long period of time before they sent any humans there.

Edited by Mockingjay74, 11 November 2012 - 06:33 PM.

Questions? Comments? Conversation? Drop me a message!


#16 Konig Des Todes

Konig Des Todes

    Manager of the Void

  • Site Contributors
  • 9534 posts
  • Location:Inside you.
  • Guild Tag:[Lore]

Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:06 PM

The whole "the forgotten were brought to the world by the Six Gods" bit is in question, as is the timeline's statement of when they arrived on Tyria. Reason being that they were one of the races who fought the Elder Dragons during their last rise at approximately 10,000 BE.

The questions about the forgotten really end up becoming thus:
1) Were the forgotten *really* brought by the Six Gods?
2) Is the timeline referring to when they arrived on the world, or on the continent - should it be truthful?
3) If the timeline is truthful, regardless of the validity of question 1, does that then mean when they returned and, as such, could that mean they went into the Mists, met the gods, and instead of the Six bringing the forgotten it was the forgotten who brought the Six?

I'm personally thinking it'll end up being 1 of 2 things - the forgotten, alongside Glint, lied as to hide the truth of the Elder Dragons. Why they would do this, however, is a huge question in of itself.

Alternatively, considering that the forgotten are indeed servants of the Six (as per Nightfall), could that then mean the scenario I presented in question 3 - that the forgotten went into the Mists (perhaps chasing the mursaat, who betrayed the four and nearly wiped out the seers before fleeing the world) and met the Six Gods, thus finding a new religion and bringing the Six and humanity to Tyria (perhaps in a hope to have powerful allies should the Elder Dragons ever arise, but it having backfired thanks to Balthazar's desire to conquer Tyria for humans). Furthermore, the Orrian History Scrolls found in Shelter Docks of Malchor's Leap indicate to me - mostly in the bit on Lyssa - that humanity was fleeing from some sort of calamity. It could be, then, that the forgotten, having met the Six and humanity by chance as they explored the Mists, offered taking them to Tyria as a refuge for their people. Thus, the forgotten brought the Six Gods to Arah - as from the Arah explorable mode dungeon, we know that the forgotten have ruins in the city - and when the Six (specifically Dwayna according to what we're told from said Orrian History Scrolls - that she was the first god to arrive on Tyria, and was the one who brought humanity to the world too) arrived, they saw the world as good, but didn't want to bring humanity to Arah as it was, at the time, the forgotten's land, thus taking them elsewhere and from that "elsewhere,"  humanity - led by Balthazar - spread to Cantha, and then to continental Tyria and Elona.

Durmand Priory|Library of Whispers|GuildMag
"...I received a 400-page bible document for the world..." - J.Robert King
I want. I want bad.






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: gods, humans, arah, cantha

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users