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Coron's guide to enjoying WvW

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#1 coronbale

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:40 AM

Greetings future or present WvWer,

If you have stepped into a WvW match, you have probably been more confused than fired up with the spectacle you were confronted with.  When you read the "team" chat, your confusion deepens.

"GET OVER HERE"  "ZERG INC"  "DUMB COMMANDERS DONT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING"  "SM GONE, YOU ALL SUCK"  "OUR SERVER IS TERRIBLE"  "ITS ALL [person organizing the team]'s FAULT"  "ITS YOU'RE NOT YOUR"

Here is a one stop shopping to how to enjoy your WvW time.  Its step by step, so no matter your WvW experience you can fill in the holes of your education.

1)  Join a WvW guild if your serious about learning.  Doesn't need to be the #1 guild, any that you see in there rolling together will do.  Don't get pinned down to just one, roll with them for a few days, then try another.  Find one that fits your play style!  This is the step a LOT of people gloss over, and it leads to terrible times in WvW.  You really have NO IDEA what you are missing by not joining with a team that is coordinating portal flanks and counter tactics in a voice chat server!

2)  Ask questions!  This ties into 1 because if you ask it in /t or /m your going to get a million answers, and some insults as well.  Guilds are a great way to get the noob questions out of the way, and get to the good stuff!

3)  NEVER NEVER NEVER play for the score.  Your in furious combat with an enemy team.  They are juking and flanking for position, but your enemy commander makes a great move to win the day.  Battle finishes, bags collected.  Does it really matter if your up 100k or down 100k at that point?  Playing for the score means you will ONLY enjoy WvW if your server is up in points.  You will ONLY enjoy the game when winning, and turn into a giant Dbag while losing.  That and most of what happens in WvW with relation to the score has nothing to do with any 1 person or guild.  Your job is the battle at your feet, let the score sort itself out!

This also goes for when your winning.  Just because your team happens to be up in points, does not mean its time to gloat and rub peoples faces in it.  Respect and sportsmanship attitude goes a LONG way in building a reputation as a great WvWer!

4)  If you go into WvW alone, you lose the right to talk crap on the people who are organizing the team.  Even if they do it wrong, they are doing it.  Support them, and ignore people who want to shut them down.  Other side of the coin is true.  If your getting badmouthed by a commander, don't follow him!  Find a leader you can follow.

5)  Learn how to LOSE.  When you take a loss, you are in an extraordinary learning situation.  Getting angry and deflecting blame to everyone around you causes you to take nothing away from the loss.  Learning from every defeat will make you a force to be reckoned with.  Tied with this, is find a guild that can lose correctly as well.  Again, if your guild is only good when winning, and turns nasty when losing, find another one!

Some food for though here, every matchup is 1v1v1, which means technically there are 2 loser servers, and 1 winner.  Do you really think 2/3 of the population in WvW should be miserable at all times?

You'll notice nothing in this list speaks to what siege equipment to buy, where to place it, what points are important, what guilds are winners, or anything of the sort.  Without the proper attitude you will be miserable in there in any situation other than a complete shut out of the enemy.  If you haven't guessed, success in WvW is VERY complex, and often times the more skilled teams and commanders can take a loss from factors they (and you) have no control over.  If it rains on your football game, do you cuss out your coach?

Follow these steps, and you'll start to see just how AMAZING this game can be!  PVE has only a few weeks at most to offer you, alts can only take you so far, WvW will last for the life of the game.  No match is the same, no map is the same, no battle the same.

From myself and Tsym, we hope you enjoy your time in WvW!

[Tsym] Coron

Edited by coronbale, 08 November 2012 - 12:44 PM.


#2 zj12345

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:04 AM

You should shift your key point for number 4 to the front to match the rest :). Point 3 should be point 1 too, and you should also include not turning into a giant Dbag while winning.

#3 JunoGuts

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:13 AM

View Postcoronbale, on 08 November 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:


3)  NEVER NEVER NEVER play for the score.  


Nuff said!
When people realize that, WvW will be a better place!
I dont care to loose all games in WvW as long as the heat of the battle is there, to end a WvW rotation and remmembering the keep capture and huge fights, its all worth it.

#4 Serris

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:40 PM

View Postcoronbale, on 08 November 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

You really have NO IDEA what your missing by not joining with a team that is coordinating portal flanks and counter tactics in a voice chat server!

it's you're not your.

:P jokes aside, this is a nice guide. will you be updating it with new findings?

#5 coronbale

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:43 PM

View Postrastazi, on 08 November 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

Number 5 is really important; it should be Number 1.


Agreed, most people get really down about a loss.  When we were on Dragonbrand we were faced off against JQ, were outnumbered everywhere we went, and had outmanned on every single map.  My team got the best training ever, and everything we do now has been a result of those losses.  Wouldn't have changed it for anything!

View PostSerris, on 08 November 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

it's you're not your.

:P jokes aside, this is a nice guide. will you be updating it with new findings?

Definitely, getting a lot of good input from people.  Some of it I'm thinking is unintentional, but even through the snide remarks there is wisdom in there!

Also, updated with the spelling mistake!

Edited by coronbale, 08 November 2012 - 12:44 PM.


#6 Kurthos

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:51 PM

Great guide, you should include something about coordinating with other commanders.

#7 Earendil

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:35 PM

View PostKurthos, on 08 November 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

Great guide, you should include something about coordinating with other commanders.

This is a guide to "enjoying" WvW - not to "playing" WvW. Commanders should probably be competent enough to coordinate themselves.

I liked you're :) guide. I am a bit more extreme on some topics:

2) - asking questions, no matter how silly/noobish, even on /t and /m  should be encouraged and never bashed. Angry/rage answers to questions in /t, /m should be forbidden, and it's everyone responsibility to tell the "rager" to stop.

4) - extension to 2) - when you join WvW - you lose the right to talk crap on anyone (maybe a bit on your opponent but even this is debatable :) ) People who trash talk in /m in PvE can be muted and ignored - In WvW you need the/m & /t to be effective. That's why someone who trash talks in WvW should be told by everybody in the map to stop - if affects your overall performance.

Also - take the time to congratulate (a lot, it's never too much) everyone that does something you like. Including your opponents. BG did a big push yesterday and got the appreciation from all (well, most) SBI. When people are rewarded for a specific behavior they tend to repeat it.

And I agree with you - the key to enjoying WvW is to realize that you, as individual, have a minimal control over the score. You can do small things though that might add up to the end result.  It's like feeling guilty/angry because children are dying of hunger on another continent - you cannot magically solve the problem by yourself - but you can make a small contribution to a helping organization.

#8 Nalano

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:22 PM

Step 1: See the mans.
Step 2: Kill the mans.
Step 3: Kill ALL the mans.

#9 coronbale

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:59 PM

View PostEarendil, on 08 November 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:



This is a guide to "enjoying" WvW - not to "playing" WvW. Commanders should probably be competent enough to coordinate themselves.

I liked you're :) guide. I am a bit more extreme on some topics:

2) - asking questions, no matter how silly/noobish, even on /t and /m  should be encouraged and never bashed. Angry/rage answers to questions in /t, /m should be forbidden, and it's everyone responsibility to tell the "rager" to stop.

4) - extension to 2) - when you join WvW - you lose the right to talk crap on anyone (maybe a bit on your opponent but even this is debatable :) ) People who trash talk in /m in PvE can be muted and ignored - In WvW you need the/m & /t to be effective. That's why someone who trash talks in WvW should be told by everybody in the map to stop - if affects your overall performance.

Also - take the time to congratulate (a lot, it's never too much) everyone that does something you like. Including your opponents. BG did a big push yesterday and got the appreciation from all (well, most) SBI. When people are rewarded for a specific behavior they tend to repeat it.

And I agree with you - the key to enjoying WvW is to realize that you, as individual, have a minimal control over the score. You can do small things though that might add up to the end result.  It's like feeling guilty/angry because children are dying of hunger on another continent - you cannot magically solve the problem by yourself - but you can make a small contribution to a helping organization.

Honestly man, you get it 100%. Most of the qqing, the raging, and the quitting ive seen in wvw has been based more from people getting mad about things they have no control over. Post after post of unsportsmanship and angry behavior, when its that point of view that is now allowing them to enjoy what they are doing! I'm hoping this guide will help this problem.

#10 DreadlockrastaGW

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 12:37 AM

View PostScarnah, on 08 November 2012 - 08:31 PM, said:

Except this is a game, something people do for fun.  You do not improve your station in life by winning a WvW match.

(I agree America is being Pussified though)

I just don't understand how you play against people in a game, and not act competitively, caring about the outcome. You must have been very bad at sports in school.

#11 crowea

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 01:06 AM

Great list here Coronbale! Agree with it all.

View PostDreadlockrastaGW, on 09 November 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

I just don't understand how you play against people in a game, and not act competitively, caring about the outcome. You must have been very bad at sports in school.

Sometimes it is better to enjoy the battle than worry about who is winning the war.

Edited by crowea, 09 November 2012 - 12:16 PM.
No


#12 zj12345

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 01:09 AM

Caring about the outcome is one thing. Letting it affect your behavior in a negative fashion (through things such as whining or preening) is another.

#13 Raggok

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 01:20 AM

People who never never never play for the score don't server hop.  Hrm, oh wait...

#14 Earendil

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 02:30 AM

View PostDreadlockrastaGW, on 09 November 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

I just don't understand how you play against people in a game, and not act competitively, caring about the outcome. You must have been very bad at sports in school.

WvW is not pro sports. WvW is an improvised soccer game between kids that met in a park. Will you be angry at your kid's team for losing ?

When GvG arrives, that will be pro sports - and all is different.

#15 zj12345

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 02:34 AM

View PostEarendil, on 09 November 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

WvW is not pro sports. WvW is an improvised soccer game between kids that met in a park. Will you be angry at your kid's team for losing ?

When GvG arrives, that will be pro sports - and all is different.

To add on to the analogy, there aren't even real organized teams in this game. It's more like a pick me up where people are free to join in and leave any team at any time. Why would anyone bother to keep track of the score in this kind of game?

#16 DreadlockrastaGW

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 03:23 AM

View Postzj12345, on 09 November 2012 - 02:34 AM, said:

To add on to the analogy, there aren't even real organized teams in this game. It's more like a pick me up where people are free to join in and leave any team at any time. Why would anyone bother to keep track of the score in this kind of game?

The team= the server/guild. Join a guild that actually does WvW and sets up defensive siege at towers/keeps and I think your mind will change.

#17 Tellia

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 03:54 AM

my enjoyment of wvw depends upon whether i can do anything.

if my world is severely behind, wont affect my enjoyment too much if i can still get a group going, cap some stuff, defend some stuff. i enjoy it if we actually have a chance to do something.

but most of the time, if my world gets behind in points, people stop showing up. so when i go in with my small group and take something, 50 enemy players immediately come to the location and flip it back because we cant fight back. try to take something else...too many people defend it, cant do anything. so i dont have much choice but to stop joining until the point-watchers start playing again.

i guess the point is, your own team can be more detrimental to your enjoyment of wvw than the enemy, most of the time.

#18 zj12345

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 03:58 AM

View PostDreadlockrastaGW, on 09 November 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

The team= the server/guild. Join a guild that actually does WvW and sets up defensive siege at towers/keeps and I think your mind will change.

I am not sure if you are getting my point. In a pick me up game, tactics will still be used. But those taking part in the game will change all the time. Same with a server where anyone is free to enter and leave as well as the actual WvW maps where people are free to leave and enter the maps.

#19 DreadlockrastaGW

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 04:17 AM

View Postzj12345, on 09 November 2012 - 03:58 AM, said:

I am not sure if you are getting my point. In a pick me up game, tactics will still be used. But those taking part in the game will change all the time. Same with a server where anyone is free to enter and leave as well as the actual WvW maps where people are free to leave and enter the maps.

To some extent, but on SBI and several other servers specific guilds take management over specific borderlands, making it not so random.

#20 XiroRR

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 04:46 AM

I just moved to SBI and loving it, steam roll everyone they are even scared to fight us.

#21 Ballads

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 04:48 AM

While my first response might of been kinda troll, it still brings up a valid point.

View Postcoronbale, on 08 November 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

.

1)  Join a WvW guild if your serious about learning.  Doesn't need to be the #1 guild, any that you see in there rolling together will do.  Don't get pinned down to just one, roll with them for a few days, then try another.  Find one that fits your play style!  This is the step a LOT of people gloss over, and it leads to terrible times in WvW.  You really have NO IDEA what you are missing by not joining with a team that is coordinating portal flanks and counter tactics in a voice chat server!


[Tsym] Coron
Just like the OP states the important of choosing the right guild, choosing the right server to fit your wvw needs is just as important. One should never feel tied down to a server that doesn't fit your wvw needs. Do you like fighting the best compition then perhaps a T1 like JQ or SBI is for you. Like being the big fish in a small pond? perhaps Kaineng is perfect for you. Finding one with large "Zerg" groups would be nice for someone new, while after you have played a while finding a server with more coordinated guilds is for you. Most people seek servers with full time coverage because they hate to be night capped. Others may enjoy the challenge. Its all about you, there is a server to fit your needs. Try one up to once a week till you find one you like.

How many people reading these forums still play on their launch server? The importance of choosing the right server is paramount and should be included in your guide imo.

#22 Earendil

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 05:16 AM

View PostBallads, on 09 November 2012 - 04:48 AM, said:



How many people reading these forums still play on their launch server? The importance of choosing the right server is paramount and should be included in your guide imo.

I do - 0 transfers. And most of the WvWers from SBI do. There were some added guilds and some bandwagonners (the loudest on the forums) but basically, it's the same people who set up the server population in BWE.

Yet I completely agree with you - people should be free to try, test and join a server that has a profile they can identify with. Free transfers could be seen as a plague (see what kind of people they got us lately) but I'm ready to admit they are needed, to allow people to enjoy the game the way they want to.

Still - it feels much better when you get wins for the server you feel you belong to.

#23 coronbale

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 06:54 AM

View PostTellia, on 09 November 2012 - 03:54 AM, said:

my enjoyment of wvw depends upon whether i can do anything.

if my world is severely behind, wont affect my enjoyment too much if i can still get a group going, cap some stuff, defend some stuff. i enjoy it if we actually have a chance to do something.

but most of the time, if my world gets behind in points, people stop showing up. so when i go in with my small group and take something, 50 enemy players immediately come to the location and flip it back because we cant fight back. try to take something else...too many people defend it, cant do anything. so i don't have much choice but to stop joining until the point-watchers start playing again.

i guess the point is, your own team can be more detrimental to your enjoyment of wvw than the enemy, most of the time.

To this, I would refer you to #1.  If your a part of a guild that claims to be a WvW guild, but bails after Sunday to do PVE because they are behind, I'm sorry, but your not in a WvW guild.  Find a guild that has a decent standing army, and will go out day after day regardless of the coverage.  You know your in a great one, when they are looking for the map with the LEAST amount of friendly coverage, and going there to lay down the law.

They exist, and they are out there.  TL, RUN, SFD, PRX, BP, TW, FoE, Twin, VNG, and GSDC to name a few just off the top of my head.  Do or die, rain or shine, they are out there kickin ass and taking names.  Do you think they suffer from a disability that does not allow them to mentally register when one number is higher than another?  No, it just doesn't mean anything to them.  Think about it before you flame the crap out of people spreading positivity.

#24 coronbale

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:00 AM

View PostBallads, on 09 November 2012 - 04:48 AM, said:

While my first response might of been kinda troll, it still brings up a valid point.

Just like the OP states the important of choosing the right guild, choosing the right server to fit your wvw needs is just as important. One should never feel tied down to a server that doesn't fit your wvw needs. Do you like fighting the best compition then perhaps a T1 like JQ or SBI is for you. Like being the big fish in a small pond? perhaps Kaineng is perfect for you. Finding one with large "Zerg" groups would be nice for someone new, while after you have played a while finding a server with more coordinated guilds is for you. Most people seek servers with full time coverage because they hate to be night capped. Others may enjoy the challenge. Its all about you, there is a server to fit your needs. Try one up to once a week till you find one you like.

How many people reading these forums still play on their launch server? The importance of choosing the right server is paramount and should be included in your guide imo.

The key statement here?  BIG FISH IN A LITTLE POND

If your on a server in 14th place, but you destroy everything in your path, and wreck face everywhere you go, but never get better competition because your server cant climb the ladder, really think about why you remain?  Is it through a sense of server pride, that you rolled on a server with a fun name, or a buddy picked it and you wanted to roll with them?  If this sounds like you, you need to closely monitor your team for burn out.  A lack of competition is going to burn your guild out just as quickly as being over matched.

If you take your guild into game after game and get wrecked, move to a server lower on the list and learn with players of equal drive.  If you go in game after game and yawn your way through fight after fight, maybe move higher up the ranks.

Again, this is probably a page for the guild leader guide, but for some weird reason it keeps coming up here.

#25 Dalure

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 10:36 AM

Nice thread mate....a good attitude and the right way to explain it to people.

Keep it up mate.

/Salute

#26 profitsports

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 02:35 PM

3) NEVER NEVER NEVER play for the score. Your in furious combat with an enemy team. They are juking and flanking for position, but your enemy commander makes a great move to win the day. Battle finishes, bags collected. Does it really matter if your up 100k or down 100k at that point? Playing for the score means you will ONLY enjoy WvW if your server is up in points. You will ONLY enjoy the game when winning, and turn into a giant Dbag while losing. That and most of what happens in WvW with relation to the score has nothing to do with any 1 person or guild. Your job is the battle at your feet, let the score sort itself out!

Please explain why AoI moved to SoS

:P

#27 Meldios

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 03:44 PM

View PostXiroRR, on 09 November 2012 - 04:46 AM, said:

I just moved to SBI and loving it, steam roll everyone they are even scared to fight us.

I think you used the wrong pronoun mate.

#28 coronbale

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:07 PM

View Postprofitsports, on 09 November 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

3) NEVER NEVER NEVER play for the score. Your in furious combat with an enemy team. They are juking and flanking for position, but your enemy commander makes a great move to win the day. Battle finishes, bags collected. Does it really matter if your up 100k or down 100k at that point? Playing for the score means you will ONLY enjoy WvW if your server is up in points. You will ONLY enjoy the game when winning, and turn into a giant Dbag while losing. That and most of what happens in WvW with relation to the score has nothing to do with any 1 person or guild. Your job is the battle at your feet, let the score sort itself out!

Please explain why AoI moved to SoS

:P

Here we are back at the transferring thing...  Alright.  Lets see what we can do here.

First off, if your guild stays on its starting server, or moving to another server, and you don't agree with it, STAY.  If your on the server and someone is moving, and you don't agree with it, OK.  They are not a part of your immediate sphere of influence, you have no control over them, done deal.

If your guild is constantly frustrated with the score in WvW, are constantly losing to other servers, and wants to always win, THIS is the wrong reason to transfer.  You can tell its for this reason, because they move to the highest ranked server and set up camp.  This can only lead to dissapointment, as there is no longer 1 meta server that never loses.  Eventually all servers will taste defeat.

If your guild is constantly frustrated with the competition that WvW has to offer, and would like a better challenge, THIS is a right reason to transfer.  A guild should always be matched with other guilds that can provide entertaining fights.  This includes an oceanic guild that is only PvDooring.  Why the hell would you want to be on a server where all you do it log on, and smash and grab the whole map?  Fun for a few days, but weeks?  MONTHS?

You'll notice that step 3 remains intact.  I actually agree with you, that you should NEVER play for the score, and you should NEVER transfer servers for the score. They are actually the SAME POINT.  It is not the transferring that is the problem that will frustrate the members, its the reason behind it.  By being a part of a guild that is transferring for this reason, you are agreeing that playing for the score is the right path.  I assure you, it is not.  If you are happy with the fights you get on your existing server, say goodbye to your guild that is moving, and join a new one on your current server.  Plain and simple.

I really hope we can get past this and get back to the topic of this thread...  If a guild abandoned you and your feeling angry about it, try and move past it and enjoy the game for what it is!  Odds are your probably playing for the wrong reasons too, and you should look at your own enjoyment of WvW.  Try READING my post above, rather than trying to attack it.

You might learn something...

Edited by coronbale, 09 November 2012 - 07:13 PM.


#29 coronbale

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:20 AM

View PostDalure, on 09 November 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

Nice thread mate....a good attitude and the right way to explain it to people.

Keep it up mate.

/Salute

Thanks man, WvW is an amazing system, its literally THE thing that GW2 does that will keep players on it for years.  The fact that many players havent played it, and more have and didnt understand it/didnt like it means they might not know how to enjoy the game.

#30 profitsports

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 01:12 PM

wait so are u saying that youre not pvdooring right now?? and what about ur aussies?? lol u should think about what youre writing. u might learn something. cyu in tier 1

i left atac and sos for war mach on sbi bc u guys had no competition against pvdoor and the aussies would cap everything at night. i dont see how you enjoy that but ok sure





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