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Can someone explain dungeons to me?


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#1 wbfoley100

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:14 PM

So I went to my first dungeon(CM story mode) last night to try and start the monthly achievement, and let me tell you how it was a total waste of my time.  Let me preface this by saying I'm a total dungeon noob and had no idea what to expect. Every pull was complete chaos as mobs would run around the room randomly to everyone with no rhyme or reason.  I must of been downed 20-25 times the entire way.  I'm not sure how many times I died, but I had a 8s repair build after it was all said and done.  There were many times where it was like 10+ mobs on a pull and it would just instant death for a few of us.  We pretty much graveyard zerged our way to the end.  Are all the dungeons like this?  Is aggro just completely random?

Now I will say I have no hp to speak of(lvl 80 full exotic berserker armor/weapons) but I usually have more than enough dodges to keep myself alive and stealth stuff to reset aggro.  It seems like a huge waste of time for me though at this point and I dread having to get just 5 in this month.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

#2 ColdFear66

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:19 PM

I'm still pretty new to dungeons myself. I've only done the Ascalon Catacombs story dungeon and I've tried (but not cmopleted) the CM story mode. AC is certainly a lot less chaotic so it might be better if you get some dungeon practice there before moving on. Something I noticed was that going through the dungeon multiple times (I've done AC a few times, once with a random group and a couple times with friends) makes it a lot easier

#3 paradiselight

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:42 PM

View Postwbfoley100, on 08 November 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

Let me preface this by saying I'm a total dungeon noob and had no idea what to expect.

Now I will say I have no hp to speak of(lvl 80 full exotic berserker armor/weapons)
Your two biggest problems right there.

No idea + no survivability = complete disaster

It's not that you can't run around being a glass cannon. You can, but only if you know the fights, are good at dodges (general PvE doesn't train you enough for that) and know how to use your class to full potential.

At the very least, run with someone who knows the fight throughout and can lead. And try to stay range for a start (I'm assuming you're a thief from the mention of stealth, just be careful you don't pull unnecessary aggro from the bouncing attacks if you use shortbow).

Get some survivability via toughness and vitality.

Finally, aggro is not random and depends on factors such as range, armor, equipment, DPS, remaining health, etc and can be manipulated if you know what you're doing. And I'm saying this because I play an aggro magnet guardian.

#4 shiko

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:58 PM

I agree with paradiselight, and also to add to it, the pulls normally don't have that many people per pack. You and your party most likely ran past the point where you engaged the enemy, to pull additional mobs, which lead it to being 10 or so people. Some general rules when you are new to running a dungeon or not sure is to check the corners of the room etc, by using the left control key(if default) in order to see enemy name tags on the screen to give you an idea of where everyone is. When pulling, do not move beyond areas you have yet to discover, this will keep your party from aggroing useless things.

Aggro is thought to be random, but the factors are exactly what paradiselight stated, and it is manipulated by these factors. Not only that, the enemies will sometimes switch off of you after certain points, so not one person will always take damage.

Also, make sure to take skills that can benefit not only you, but your teammates too. Also mark targets if you aren't on any kind of chat program like skype, vent, teamspeak, etc. This way people won't attack random enemies and you can focus down the key ones first.

#5 wbfoley100

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:25 PM

Yeah that's what I pretty much figured about the survivability...but I'll be honest it wouldn't of mattered many of the times...I guess it had been too long for me for running dungeons.  The aggro part is what got me the most and how random it seemed.  Thanks for the input.

#6 CepaCepa

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:42 PM

CM in particular can be a death trap if you're new to dungeons, It's short but packed with potential death if you don't have a good group composition. Large groups of ranged mobs that die in 3-4 hits but each hits like a boss is a CM specialty, and a standard practice is to coordinate projectile reflect (mesmer/guardian) with high ranged aoe damage (ele/engineer) and thin out these mobs within project reflect duration. If you don't have projectile reflect in your team, then you better have some aoe control in your group, the idea is still to burst them down before they burst one of you down.

I'd suggest these few dungeons for you to run to get a hang of things:

HotW all path (there are underwater fights, so be prepared)
CoF path 1 and 2
CoE path 1

If you've got an elementalist in your group, AC should be a breeze.
If you've got guardian/mesmer in your group who are familiar with the dungeon, CM isn't as bad as it might be.
SE is quite straight forward overall.
TA is not hard, but annoying, especially for a glass cannon with not enough condition cleanse.
Arah is... Arah.


It is defintely possible to never die even once in dungeon runs as a glass cannon. However as others have mentioned, to do that you have to be very careful and know the fights. I think you'd have to go into other dungeons and see for yourself. :)

Edited by CepaCepa, 08 November 2012 - 08:48 PM.


#7 Al Shamari

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:45 PM

View Postparadiselight, on 08 November 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

Your two biggest problems right there.

No idea + no survivability = complete disaster

It's not that you can't run around being a glass cannon. You can, but only if you know the fights, are good at dodges (general PvE doesn't train you enough for that) and know how to use your class to full potential.

At the very least, run with someone who knows the fight throughout and can lead. And try to stay range for a start (I'm assuming you're a thief from the mention of stealth, just be careful you don't pull unnecessary aggro from the bouncing attacks if you use shortbow).

Get some survivability via toughness and vitality.

Finally, aggro is not random and depends on factors such as range, armor, equipment, DPS, remaining health, etc and can be manipulated if you know what you're doing. And I'm saying this because I play an aggro magnet guardian.
I'm pretty much just quoting this as my own reply because it explains everything you need to know, much better than I could have said it myself.

#8 wbfoley100

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:29 PM

To me it seems rather crazy to make them that difficult if you don't have a certain class in story mode.  I understand all bets are off in explore mode, but if I did that dungeon at level 40(where you don't have all that many tools available to you), I can't even imagine how badly I would of died.  Again all thanks for the insight and suggestions.

#9 NachyoChez

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:19 PM

View Postwbfoley100, on 08 November 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

To me it seems rather crazy to make them that difficult if you don't have a certain class in story mode.  I understand all bets are off in explore mode, but if I did that dungeon at level 40(where you don't have all that many tools available to you), I can't even imagine how badly I would of died.  Again all thanks for the insight and suggestions.
You don't need a certain class.

Dungeons are, from start to finish, like upgraded 'group events'.  They're meant to be more difficult than average content (story should still be doable with a PUG, Exp is supposed to need some talent), but can be done by any glass.  I'd done them with balanced groups, all warriors, or been the only warrior with a group of mesmers (NEVER again.  Stupid clones wanting rez).  What will matter to you more than ANYTHING is this equation:

View Postparadiselight, on 08 November 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

No idea + no survivability = complete disaster

To do dungeons either get more survival, or bring someone who can help guide the fights!

#10 paradiselight

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:14 PM

View Postwbfoley100, on 08 November 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

To me it seems rather crazy to make them that difficult if you don't have a certain class in story mode.  
Not true at all. As a thief, you have access to smoke screen, which blocks projectiles, and black powder, a spammable (properly traited) smoke combo field for AoE blind.

A step down is damage mitigation via AoE weakness using poison fields + finishers and/or Lotus Poison trait.

I can't even fully describe how much easier my job is when I have all the aggro and there is a good thief in the team. Many times it's the difference between facetanking and having to blow through all my defensive skills.




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