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Improving WvW


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#61 Liquid Squid

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:55 AM

One idea, which has almost no tactical implications, but which I really would like to see:

Give each server a unique symbol and color to be able to identify with them more. As it currently is, every server is the same, looks the same, the only difference is the name. Give them something unique.. maybe a unique starting point, whatever..

Also give smaller servers a better defendable homeland. More mountais, let the camps be closer to the core spawning point . All the small Europoean coutnries - historically - could only defend themselves against the bigger nations because of the favourable terrain, mountainscapes and so on. Sadly this is probably too much of an effort to implement. :(

Edited by Liquid Squid, 14 November 2012 - 11:55 AM.


#62 graverobber2

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:36 PM

IMHO, the problem is that there is no real motivation to go after the biggest player.
If you have 2 identical objectives, say two towers, one is owned by red (who is leading by a large amount) and the other is owned by blue (who is barely above your score), you'll most likely go after blue (first).
The objective give the same amount of points, and blue is an easier target.

The dungeon would be one way to solve this, but it doesn't really solve the problem, you're just
draining members from the 'red' team, with other probably comming in to replace them.
If red's score outnumbers blue and green's score, they'll probably just think 'F**k it' and go do something else.

The solution should be to motivate the losing teams that they WANT to attack the winning team, no matter how
hopeless the situation may be.

I suggest the following:
  • Attacking (and killing) players from the winning team gives a X amount of karma, Y% more xp, and (Z*6)% + magic found for the drops from that player.
  • Completing an event involving the winning team (i.e. taking over their keeps, towers, etc,...) gives +X% more karma, Y% more XP and Z% more money from the event reward.
X, Y and Z scale depending on the difference between your world's points and the point's of the guy who's in first place (If you're in first place yourself, or very close to first place, they are set to 0). This is important, because attacking the other 'losing' team, will reduce the difference between the winning team and your team, potentially lowering your bonusses. If the three teams are close to each other, the bonus should be (near) 0, and your motivation should just be winning. If two teams are tied (or nearly tied) and the third one is lagging behind, the bonus for the third team applies to both 'winning' teams.

X, Y and Z should not get higher than 5%, so the bonusses don't become ridiculous.

This should be combined with some ideas to also reward the winning team (but in a different way, like the dungeon),
otherwise every world will probably let their points lower as to get the bonusses.


Liquid Squids idea with the colors should help to diffentiate the teams, in order to make this idea doable.

Edited by graverobber2, 14 November 2012 - 12:39 PM.


#63 omar316

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 08:04 AM

A lot of great ideas, but none which actually addresses the concerns of dying servers. Many of these ideas work well with a populated server where player interests keep up from being interested. But that has mostly already been established with the top 9 servers. As seen weekly from the score points they are rotating among themselves.

There is no bloody way NSP is going up to tier 2 or 3. Ever.

DAoC's Darkness Falls is by far the best idea imo.
Simply put it generates PvE players to partake to PvP. But then again, lets try to understand this. DAoC/Warhahmmer were PvP games with PvE elements. WoW was a PvE game with PvP elements.

On what ground does GW2 stand?
Is it focusing on PvE? Or PvP?

I think GW2 is a PvE game with PvP elements. Unless the direction of GW2 changes drastically I don't think any kind of suggestion's going to save this bleeding community of PvP players.

Don't just look at the top 9. Look at the bottom 9 as well. It really is beyond Anet's hands atm. The players themselves need to save this game.

My suggestion , server segregation, offer a week long server transfer and encourage PvP and PvE servers. Of course PvE servers get some kind of boosted loot system and incentives to be on that server. While PvP servers well get more players to WvW and sPvP.

The EU servers on the other hand are ridiculous. The players there bleed real blood to PvP. lol.

#64 Celendes

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 08:12 AM

We all want another DAOC... the only way i see it happening is if the game is 100% copied with modern graphics. DAOC was a masterpiece that will never be equated

#65 ilr

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 09:22 AM

The so called world bonuses we get for actually winning are a joke too though and you can get the same exact effect from spending 5 more minutes in PvE than you usually would have.  ...a REAL world bonus that would get PvE'ers out of LA/Orr and into the Mists, would be shit like....  
  • Doubled chance of Ecto salvage, (to offset the obvious Mystic Kit nerf last month),
  • or Doubled effect of any Consumables you use in PvE,
  • Tripled chances of Lodestones from Chests,
  • all insignias/inscriptions you craft cost 33% less Fine Materials,
  • Free Booze for every successful Dolyak escort (instead of karma)
  • and most importantly: "stability while drunk".  (in PvE only)
... Stuff that actually matters to people that they can't just duplicate by spending ALL their time in PvE. And you don't have to just give that crap to only the winning server either.... give it to players individually for several hours even if all they did was spend 30 minutes to an hour getting stomped on by WvW guilds.  As long as they got into some actual battles (and weren't just jagginoff in the jump puzzles or centaur camp), they should get something more useful than Badges. Lots of them already have full priest-Karma or Dungeon gear, They don't need no stinkin badges!

Edited by ilr, 15 November 2012 - 09:34 AM.


#66 Mif

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:13 AM

Make the jump puzzle only accessible via SM.
Make the (new and updated) anti-player weapons in the jump puzzle accessible via each keep.
Move the Grub into the puzzle, upgrade the loot, and put it in a place where it can't be kited out of range of the anti-player weapons.

Hopefully it should have the effect of draining manpower from the winning side, at the cost of very few players from the losing sides. Thus helping to balance out battles somewhat, while providing a greater reward for capturing SM.

#67 two maces

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:21 AM

View Postilr, on 15 November 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

The so called world bonuses we get for actually winning are a joke too though and you can get the same exact effect from spending 5 more minutes in PvE than you usually would have.  ...a REAL world bonus that would get PvE'ers out of LA/Orr and into the Mists, would be shit like....  
  • Doubled chance of Ecto salvage, (to offset the obvious Mystic Kit nerf last month),
  • or Doubled effect of any Consumables you use in PvE,
  • Tripled chances of Lodestones from Chests,
  • all insignias/inscriptions you craft cost 33% less Fine Materials,
  • Free Booze for every successful Dolyak escort (instead of karma)
  • and most importantly: "stability while drunk".  (in PvE only)
... Stuff that actually matters to people that they can't just duplicate by spending ALL their time in PvE. And you don't have to just give that crap to only the winning server either.... give it to players individually for several hours even if all they did was spend 30 minutes to an hour getting stomped on by WvW guilds.  As long as they got into some actual battles (and weren't just jagginoff in the jump puzzles or centaur camp), they should get something more useful than Badges. Lots of them already have full priest-Karma or Dungeon gear, They don't need no stinkin badges!

I thought about this, but it would only cause a lot of bandwagoning. Much better would be if the bonuses were tied to holding points, such as Keeps and Towers. PVE players could then donate a small sum to guest into the guild, the proceeds would be funneled towards the war effort.

#68 ilr

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:21 PM

That's a cool idea also and would really make Guilds worth something finally.

#69 BloodSF

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:56 PM

I heard Obs from LoD (SBi guild) make this point in some podcast he was in a few months ago...

But... the 'problem' within WvW right now seems clear right now. Discouragement due to point leads and the snowballing effect that has on a server's morale and turn-out. Right?

Why not create other point tick systems... parallel ones that one can access to see which guilds have been accomplishing the most overall and on each server?

I've heard that DAoC did this... so that even if the overall score wasn't in your favor... you would log in to represent your guild and get their points up so that their rank would be higher.

If the 'score' is the thing discouraging players... create more specific grades of point tallies. So that they have other 'scores' to look at and be interested in. Scores towards which they as small groups or individuals can make a larger impact.

Every server wants ppl from the other side to keep playing, regardless of their rank or points. It's why we play an MMO... because we prefer to play with PEOPLE. I'm in favor of anything that helps discourage less players... in fact anything that encourages them 'more'.

I'd say a guild-ranking system based on points and contributions to the map would be awesome. I'd watch that thing way more closely than the total 'point tally'.

#70 tomatoeatseverything

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:25 PM

The maps r way too small. Thats why it's a numbers game not a skill game who wins the server matchups.

Edited by tomatoeatseverything, 18 November 2012 - 08:27 PM.


#71 Zodiak V

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:40 PM

I like the idea of taking away the orange swords.
Also, if your guild claims a tower or keep the members of that guild in the area should receive notification that their tower is under attack.  

A Darkness Falls type dungeon could really work well if it is implemented properly.  It would be as simple as placing another portal down by the Jumping Puzzle portals only it would only activate once the criteria was met.  
Pretty much anyone who ever played DAOC and experienced Darkness Falls knows and will testify to how amazing a concept it was.  It was a lot of fun.

Bigger maps would be great as well but I am not sure how realistic that is at this time.  It would almost involve a complete redo of their current wvw system.

Getting rid of the orbs was a step in the right direction.

I really enjoy this game and the wvwvw.  Could it use some improvements?  Certainly.  But it is still the most fun I have had since DAOC

#72 Wombatz

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:23 PM

Make supply distances matter while maintaining the casual atmosphere.

Battlefield 1942 did this great 10 years ago. So please don't tell me that having no respawn timer and being able to run diagonally across the whole map in such short time as in GW2 is necessary to be casual-friendly.

#73 Pusha

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:25 PM

One way to improve WvW is to improve player loading.  But that will never happen so WvW will always be subpar.

#74 Mif

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 01:25 AM

A new Asuran-tech siege weapon that shoots a chain lightning (on a decent cooldown, lore: needs to charge) which does more damage to each player it hits.

Good luck zerging :P

#75 mehwoot

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 01:15 AM

Quote

It's too late for transfers to affect much. SBI will still always be first, and restricted transfers will just make it harder for people to leave the server and for people to join JQ, BG, or SoS to try and beat us.

So... how did that turn out?




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