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The Aggro Magnet Guardian - How to be a Tank


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#31 KrakenAZ

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:24 PM

I haven't tried this build, but I suspect that granting boons to allies is an even larger part of aggro than alluded to here.

I run a 0/0/30/20/20 shout based build with Altruistic Healing and Empowering might.  I use hammer + mace/shield, so between the symbols and my shouts and liberal use of virtues, I'm constantly buffing myself and others.  In the open world against enemies that last more than a few seconds, I generally grab their attention quite quickly and never lose it.  I'm not geared either, all rare/masterwork.  I don't run dungeons much, so can't verify the behavior there.

#32 paradiselight

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 02:27 AM

View PostKennoArkkan, on 02 January 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

I'm just unsure if i should go with power/toughness/vitality weapons, or knight weapons, but since the apparent 3k toughness cap is met (is this even a rule or something? or why did paradiselight mentioned that number?) , i guess i should go with +vit.
First off, glad you're having fun with the build :D

As to the toughness value, it's not 100% absolutely critical to exceed 3000. You just need to have more toughness than your party members while dealing decent damage. The more toughness that you have, the easier it is to gain and hold aggro. Now if you're running in a dedicated group where you know what your party member's toughness is, you can easily drop below 3000 (2700-2900) while still having good aggro management. But if you pug frequently, then I would recommend 3000 toughness as the value to achieve. The toughness value also has to do with survivability as due to the insane amount of self-heal that a guardian has, toughness is in most cases a better investment than vitality is.

As for whether there is a threshold point that makes mobs aggro you more, from my experience playing around with my warrior alt, it seems that 2600 is that magic number. (Warning: it is extremely hazardous to run with 2600 toughness, don't pug with this). But I haven't tested it enough to make a firm conclusion. In a way, it does make sense because Anet seems to love 2600 armor value. It's the armor value of the heavy testing dummy and it's also the armor value used to calculate the damage shown in the tooltips of all skills.

#33 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 06:00 AM

This is interesting, although if your criteria for aggro determination are correct, the best set is Knight's, not Soldier's.  Soldier is an extremely low DPS set and it actually gives less toughness than Knight, so your ability to draw aggro will be severely limited.  Moreover, if you're using Omnomberry Pies, you want your crit rate to be as high as possible, and it will also give you extra AH procs from Empowering Might if you trait that way.

If I had to pick, I'd say the ideal tanking set would be full knight's gear and 0/0/30/20/20.  You'll get Empowering Might, which will give both respectable DPS and self-healing, and you can also take Master of Consecrations (for WoR, to turn all the projectile hate coming your way into damage) and Absolute Resolution, for the extra regen and free condition removal.

As for weapon choices, if a shield is required to pull aggro, you're probably best off with scepter and mace, both with shield offhand.  Scepter has much higher DPS in general than sword and mace is basically infinity healing, so you can just afktank all the damage you'll be soaking up.

I'm just noting this because even with a max stack of toughness, your damage reduction is only at around 35%.  That sounds like a lot but it's like its making you immortal just by having it.  As such pulling aggro is only step one, step two is actually surviving it.

#34 KennoArkkan

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 04:21 PM

View PostGuanglaiKangyi, on 03 January 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

This is interesting, although if your criteria for aggro determination are correct, the best set is Knight's, not Soldier's.  Soldier is an extremely low DPS set and it actually gives less toughness than Knight, so your ability to draw aggro will be severely limited.  Moreover, if you're using Omnomberry Pies, you want your crit rate to be as high as possible, and it will also give you extra AH procs from Empowering Might if you trait that way.


Well, i use soldier's set, and i got around 60% crit with sword, with 30 in Radiance, and i hit crits for 1,5-2k O.o and i keep aggro most of the times D: I can't see the -extremely low dps- part.

View PostGuanglaiKangyi, on 03 January 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

If I had to pick, I'd say the ideal tanking set would be full knight's gear and 0/0/30/20/20.  You'll get Empowering Might, which will give both respectable DPS and self-healing, and you can also take Master of Consecrations (for WoR, to turn all the projectile hate coming your way into damage) and Absolute Resolution, for the extra regen and free condition removal.

Well, it would be interesting to test, you're suggesting to put a more offensive armor set, with a more supportive trait build, while paradise suggest the opposite :o In my personal experience, without those last 15 points in radiance, i couldn't keep the mob's aggro,  those 15% crit chance and +5% damage, plus the extra precision from that trait line, kinda makes the difference.

View PostGuanglaiKangyi, on 03 January 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

As for weapon choices, if a shield is required to pull aggro, you're probably best off with scepter and mace, both with shield offhand.  Scepter has much higher DPS in general than sword and mace is basically infinity healing, so you can just afktank all the damage you'll be soaking up.

About DPS: http://www.guildwars...s/#entry2040808

Mace is a good idea tho, but i would say it's rather situational, I think it would shine on boss battles where everyone has to be stacked on top of eachother (Subject Alpha, the first boss of HotW path 1, the first phase of lupicus, etc)

View PostGuanglaiKangyi, on 03 January 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

I'm just noting this because even with a max stack of toughness, your damage reduction is only at around 35%.  That sounds like a lot but it's like its making you immortal just by having it.  As such pulling aggro is only step one, step two is actually surviving it.

that's just toughness, plus protection (33%), plus signet of Judgement (10%), that's 78%! But still, nothing beats good timing with dodges, and heals/blocks at the right time.

Good luck with that.

#35 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 06:14 PM

View PostKennoArkkan, on 03 January 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

Well, i use soldier's set, and i got around 60% crit with sword, with 30 in Radiance, and i hit crits for 1,5-2k O.o and i keep aggro most of the times D: I can't see the -extremely low dps- part.



Well, it would be interesting to test, you're suggesting to put a more offensive armor set, with a more supportive trait build, while paradise suggest the opposite :o In my personal experience, without those last 15 points in radiance, i couldn't keep the mob's aggro,  those 15% crit chance and +5% damage, plus the extra precision from that trait line, kinda makes the difference.



About DPS: http://www.guildwars...s/#entry2040808

Mace is a good idea tho, but i would say it's rather situational, I think it would shine on boss battles where everyone has to be stacked on top of eachother (Subject Alpha, the first boss of HotW path 1, the first phase of lupicus, etc)



that's just toughness, plus protection (33%), plus signet of Judgement (10%), that's 78%! But still, nothing beats good timing with dodges, and heals/blocks at the right time.

Good luck with that.

Okay, well:

Honor isn't as "support" as you think it is, especially if the tradeoff is having to take Soldier's gear.  With Soldier's gear and Radiance traits, your crit chance should be around 18% base, or 35% with RH Strength and Retributive Armor.  Dunno where you're getting 60% from, unless you've got some seriously badass consumable that no one knows about (you'd have to get about 500 precision from consumables to get to 60% from there).  Even with full Rampager gear and 30 Radiance + RA you still only get 70% base.  A full set of Knight gear will put you at about 55%, everything else included.  By comparison the difference in damage gain between 30 in Radiance with a sword versus 30 in Honor with non-Greatsword is only about 15%.

As for the damage reduction number, I'm pretty sure the reductions compound.  That means your overall reduction is closer to 60% even with protection, not 78%.  Eithey way, without hammer, you have no reliable way of maintaining protection in the first place, so your overall damage reduction is going to be closer to 40%.

#36 paradiselight

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 05:05 PM

I have updated the OP with a new section giving more details about aggro mechanics.

I hope this clears up some of the confusion about the build and why DPS matters.




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