Nonlinear, on 29 November 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:
This looks like a fun build but personally I'd probably ditch the knight and cleric accessories and maybe weapon and replace them all with berserkers to get crit damage past 50% and get some more power due to all the good crit from knight's armor. Probably shuffle a few trait points around too. Less than 1,800 power is a tad on the low side for all the crit, even after 25 might stacks there is still a trade off between damage (i.e. kill time) and 1.4k shout heals. It’s a classic synergy: crit damage modifies crit (which is further modified by fury) which modifies power (which is modified by might stacks), which determines how much damage you do in the long run:
Long Run Direct Damage = P * (1 + C * (0.5 + D))
Where P = power, C = crit % and D = crit damage (as %).
If D < 50% (i.e. crits do less than 200% damage) the modifier on C (your precision/crit) is less than 1.0 (i.e. less than 100%) so your precision/fury contribution to your long run damage gets scaled down. It's a threshold/principle that is the same across the board for all games that use a similar system for modifying damage with crits. Anyone who has played a DPS caster in wow should be familiar with the old talents that gave 50% crit damage to get magic crits to 200% damage and were basically mandatory for DPS builds (e.g. Spell Power
in Arcane, hence one of the many reasons for their entire revamping of the talent system).
- If D = 50% (i.e. 200% damage crits) then long run direct damage is increased by critical strike % (1:1)
- If D > 50%, each % of crit adds a little more than 1% damage (e.g. 1.0:1.1)
- Finally, if D < 50% (i.e. less than 200% crits) then crit rate will add less than 1:1 to long run damage (e.g. 1.0:0.68, which is what you are currently at with 18% crit damage).
With your current numbers your long run damage is ~2,316, just bumping the crit damage from 18% to 50% and leaving everything the same bumps you to 2,567, about a 10.8% increase. This doesn’t include 20% crit from “perpetual fury” or 875 from 25 might stacks*.
Swapping the accessories for berserkers would decrease toughness and healing but increase crit damage by 17%, power by 96 and crit by 96 (~4.3%) which will increase long run damage by ~14.6%. Adding the 20% crit from Fury into both numbers increases the gap to ~16.5%. Adding in the might decreases the gap slightly due to the way might benefits lower power more (see *), down to ~13%.
You can go the mists, plug the numbers into the formula, change something up in the equation, (power, crit or crit damage) get the % difference between the two and you’ll see it translates to how long it takes to kill a golem (using direct damage), e.g. a 20% difference in relative power leads to the less powerful build taking 20% longer to kill the golem. The tradeoff is whether or not those extra seconds are worth 1.4k heals and the toughness. If a 3 minute fight lasts 15% longer that’s 27 extra seconds of a boss attacking the party, it’s up to the player to decide whether or not all the heals are worth the extra damage the boss can potentially dish out in that 27 seconds. The difference can mean popping your elite skill once, twice or even three times, repeating DPS race gimmicks, etc.
*Might actually gives more relative benefit the less power you have, e.g. 875 power to someone with 1800 power is a lot more beneficial than it is to someone with 2200 power, as the former gets ~49% relative increase in power while the latter only gets ~40% relative power increase. However, the latter number is still bigger overall 3,075 vs. 2,675).
This is all very true, and thank you for taking the time to write it all up as I'm sure it will be very informative to anyone who actually reads the comments ^^
However, I do have an issue with Berserker's Rings/Amulet/etc that I've had from the very beginning and have explained multiple times. The fact of the matter is that we have enough crit to maintain those 25 stacks of might. Sure, crits still add damage, but the major reason we have crits in the build is wasted at that point. I shall test it again, but last I tried, switching to full berserker's didn't offer any increase in average might stacks.
Ergo, putting in healing and survivability becomes much more viable. You can think of the 25 stack might cap as almost Diminishing returns on crit with this build. Anything after that simply isn't helping us out that much. An extra 600 heals every ~22 seconds and a bit of toughness are still helping (A good deal, might I add).
Another thing to consider is that we aren't losing power completely, as it is a minor stat. So you can then really see the crit damage on Berserker's being the only thing that is really helping us. Personally, I'd rather support my team a little more. Something you can't quantify in your 3 minute example is, "How many people, including me, might have gone down due to that lack of toughness/Healing, or even had to back out of the fight for a few seconds?" When you take something like that into account, the negative effects of going full Berserker's are even higher (And as I already stated, while crit and crit damage scale wonderfully with this build, the bonuses of going full berserker's aren't that great).
Another thing is that your 3 minute example is a little flawed, I think? Just because it takes me 15-20% longer to kill a golem/boss, doesn't mean it takes my group 15-20% longer. It would be more like 3-7% as I am one member of a 5 man group (Numbers divided by 5). So even at 7% that would be a ~13 second increase in length, if I am not mistaken. Furthermore, it is now even more plausible that the extra survivability and 600 heals every ~22 seconds would benefit the fight more, as without them the fight may last 20 seconds, or 25 seconds longer (Depending on if people go down, how many do, how much time is spent skirting around a boss at low health, etc).
Again, all of that is not very easily quantifiable, as I have stated in posts past, but it becomes more more of a plausible situation. As I stated, I'd prefer to play it safe rather than take a chance every fight
All in all, we have enough crit, we aren't losing too much power, and I feel the heals and survivability out match any extra damage.
Again, thank you for the detailed reply, and I hope to hear from you again (Though maybe not about this issue