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[Build] Sonic Boon - Shout Greatsword

build greatsword shout might fury boon signet of rage survivability heal adrenaline

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#241 Yeyeto

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 01:20 PM

i just need to ask
does this build is for pve right ? world pve or dungeons ?
i like the build but right now there arent too many friendly melee bosses.

Edited by Yeyeto, 02 December 2012 - 01:21 PM.


#242 Brand

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 01:25 PM

View PostYeyeto, on 02 December 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

i just need to ask
does this build is for pve right ? world pve or dungeons ?
i like the build but right now there arent too many friendly melee bosses.
It does work for PvE, and it is a PvE build. Dungeons or just general play.

#243 Kanister

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 03:38 PM

View PostBrand, on 02 December 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

It does work for PvE, and it is a PvE build. Dungeons or just general play.

How does Sonic Boom compare to the Invincible berserker one?

http://www.guildwars...erker-its-back/

#244 Brand

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 07:37 PM

View PostKanister, on 02 December 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

How does Sonic Boom compare to the Invincible berserker one?

http://www.guildwars...erker-its-back/
First of all, it's Sonic Boon.
Secondly, there are so many things wrong with that build that it's unreal. It has a lot of views because of how long it's been here and it's name having "Invincible" in it.

I don't want to get into all the details because that's a lot of explaining and ranting about another users build, and I don't feel like doing that. However, I will tell you some of the major issues:

1) 30 points in defense on a dps build. Basically this is the worst possible choice, you can take knight's gear or knight's trinkets, but in his build he has NO healing besides his self heal. This makes that 300 Compassion pretty much wasted.

2) He says his build is "Able to use 6 weapons at their full efficiency", which is hardly true. In his GS build, he has those 30 points in defense with the shield master trait (Doesn't help GS at all). With the Axe/Shield side of the GS build, he has GS traits that don't help Axe. His control set still contains the 20 points in arms WITH Forceful Greatsword, a now worthless trait. His mobility set does not change Shield master, a now worthless trait.

3) His build uses BS, which is significantly worse than Signet of Rage in most situations (Which he is even traited for! This also means that he wasted an entire trait on reducing 1 utility's cooldown) especially since the build prioritizes personal dps. He also traits for Banner radius, to increase the radius of his elite, and that's it. He suggests soldier's runes to augment his ONE shout (FGJ) on a dps build (I've discussed in the past why they just aren't good for a dps build). Take note here, that is 2 traits and a full set of runes spent augmenting each individual skill. Not even mentioning the trait Sure footed that augments his ONE stance.


Basically, all this adds up and rolls together into making his build not good at anything. It's sub par in all weapon usage suggested, the utility skills have no rhyme or reason, a handful of the traits are wasted depending on your current weapon set, and most of the ones not wasted are used to augment a SINGLE skill. There is also no way in hell that he gets 25 stacks of might without loads of additional support from allies. He doesn't even use SoR!

In comparisson to Sonic Boon, you get: Less(No) healing, Less DPS, and a bit more survivability (But that's because he put 30 points in defense on an offensive build...)

Basically, it's an representation of everything that you DO NOT want to do if you want to be an optimal part of your team, that uses a build with no gratuitous facets.

Edit: I could write a book on how bad that build is. I'm serious. I have half a mind to lay out everything but again, I'd rather not get hate from him. If you really want to know more about my opinion on his build, feel free to PM me.

Edited by Brand, 02 December 2012 - 07:43 PM.


#245 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 09:19 PM

View PostYeyeto, on 02 December 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

i just need to ask
does this build is for pve right ? world pve or dungeons ?
i like the build but right now there arent too many friendly melee bosses.

It's for all PvE content. Well, all bosses are tricky for melee, you have to be good with dodges etc to avoid the damage. It's all part of becoming better.

#246 Yeyeto

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 05:12 AM

View PostSithicus Dias, on 02 December 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

It's for all PvE content. Well, all bosses are tricky for melee, you have to be good with dodges etc to avoid the damage. It's all part of becoming better.

yeah i know, i just wish anet could make some nice bosses meele friendly more often.

some other questions (cuz i really want to try this build but right now im broke)

-how much crit do you get from just knight gear ?
-how much crit is enoght ?
-your only condition removal is SIO, dont you have problems with conditions ? ex grawl fractal, or hammer fractal
- is1400 healing per shout worth it ? using all your 3 heals will be like 4200 ? but i guess your are using FGJ as much as posible to keep the stacks of might and fury, so maybe you will be using it when you dont really need the healing, SIO is your only condition removal and stun breaker, leaving you with only 1400 healing of OMM. im running a shout build and i considere (maybe im wrong) my shouts as healing skills with a extra bonus, no more like a bonus with a healing (hope you understand what i mean)
- poison must be a your doom, how do you deal with that ?
- is not an option to use boon duration food ? (20%) insted of more crit ? you are running with 68% if i remember correctly. (that could free the runes of fire and increase the fury time) what about might on crit food ?
- do you really really need sigil of strengt to keep the might stacks up ? (i just ask because with so much crit you could use fire or air sigils that are so cool when they  trigger.)

thanks :)

Edited by Yeyeto, 03 December 2012 - 05:17 AM.


#247 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:46 AM

View PostYeyeto, on 03 December 2012 - 05:12 AM, said:

yeah i know, i just wish anet could make some nice bosses meele friendly more often.

some other questions (cuz i really want to try this build but right now im broke)

-how much crit do you get from just knight gear ?
-how much crit is enoght ?
-your only condition removal is SIO, dont you have problems with conditions ? ex grawl fractal, or hammer fractal
- is1400 healing per shout worth it ? using all your 3 heals will be like 4200 ? but i guess your are using FGJ as much as posible to keep the stacks of might and fury, so maybe you will be using it when you dont really need the healing, SIO is your only condition removal and stun breaker, leaving you with only 1400 healing of OMM. im running a shout build and i considere (maybe im wrong) my shouts as healing skills with a extra bonus, no more like a bonus with a healing (hope you understand what i mean)
- poison must be a your doom, how do you deal with that ?
- is not an option to use boon duration food ? (20%) insted of more crit ? you are running with 68% if i remember correctly. (that could free the runes of fire and increase the fury time) what about might on crit food ?
- do you really really need sigil of strengt to keep the might stacks up ? (i just ask because with so much crit you could use fire or air sigils that are so cool when they  trigger.)

thanks :)

I can't say too much about some of the finer details you're asking for, since I tried this out and it didn't sit too well with me (mainly because I play incredibly defensively, so deviating from that defense was a painful transition ;) ). But you could always just give this a go. If i recall you can buy a Box of Knights Barbaric Armour (or whatever it is), of Rare Quality for something just over 1G.

With the Omnomberry Pie, the idea is that you'll have enough crit, and be hitting enough enemies frequently to make the Lifesteal worth it. I'm in the process of working out just how effective it is (by a simple mathematical model), so we'll see how it does with that. I do have a few concerns with using it, in the sense that I think it could promote a little "arrogance", since it probably starts to make you think you can always finish your HB and not need to cancel it. I detailed something I coined as a "Hierarchy of Survivability" in my supportive thread, explaining how Healing yourself is quite low down on the priority list of 7 factors. Above it are simply methods to avoid the damage entirely, without having to recover that which you take.

As for questions like Sigil of Strength and so on, best thing is to give it a go in the Heart of the Mists. Generally if you can hit 3 enemies with HB, you're probably doing absolutely fine for Might without it. But if you're just hitting a single boss mob, it's hard to tell. It would be a shame to have to buy such an expensive Sigil if it wasn't really necessary though.

#248 Brand

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:46 AM

Alright, just going to go down the list here...

1) From knight's gear alone you get 10.66% crit.
2) This build really should be run with a guardian or warrior that is supporty and can remove conditions (All teams should have one)
3) Perhaps not, under discussion now
4) Never had a problem with poison, in groups it gets cleansed, in solo I can remove it or heal through it.
5) It is an option, but it is much better to have your 30min food buff be a bonus, not a major facet of the build. Also food buffs tend to do unique things that runes can't.
6) Yes you do :P Sorry

Hope these answer those for you!

Edit: Sithicus and I, posting at the exact same time...

Edited by Brand, 03 December 2012 - 09:48 AM.


#249 Nonlinear

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:12 PM

To switch the build to be DPS orientated instead of more support orientated, I would probably go with either Knight's or Soldier's 6pc and Berserker trinkets and weapon.  Knight's seems to synergize well with warrior's since Warrior has naturally high health and you want high crit for procs.  If you want to go more glass cannon use more Berserker and less Knight in the gear slots too.  For traits I'd just use what seems to be a fairly standard GS DPS spec, 20/30/0/0/20.  Keep Arms line the same, remove the points from tactics and put them in to Strength for 10% more GS damage and Discipline for 10% more crit damage.  Only skill that is really needed is For Great Justice.

To compare the personal damage (which is what you trade for the support) I went to the mists and used berserker gems/jewel, boon duration (nerfed in PvP) and a GS to keep everything the same (and keep the crit high) then compared the two specs, mostly GS 1 and the last hit of hundred blades with similar might stacks.  The 10/30/0/30/0 build crit for around 10k-12k (and had an easier time keeping might up with the Boon Duration from traits) while the 20/30/0/0/20 build crit for about 14k-15k and the 20/30/0/0/20 build GS 1 crit for about 400 more.  At level 80, in terms of direct damage the extra 100 power from 10 points in strength is equal to almost 3 stacks of permanent might (35 power/cond per stack), and trading the 105 condition damage from the stacks for 10% condition duration from the 10 points.  The Boon duration won't make up for the 10% GS damage talent and the loss of crit damage (i.e. the 4k difference in 100b damage and the GS 1 crits) but you have a pretty good tradeoff when the support options are added without your warrior hitting like a wet noodle that hits for 600 and crits for 1k (which is what happens when people go 100% support)..

#250 Nonlinear

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:17 PM

It seems pretty much the same for most 2h weapons.  General rule of thumb is that big crits off 2h auto attack are about 2.8k-3.0k (maybe a little more) with high crit damage and traits, about 2.4k-2.6k with lower crit damage.

Regular hits range from 600 (with 1.1k or so crits) for wet noodle support gimps (*shudder*) to about 1.2k-1.3k or so if you have decent power/might stacks.

Edited by Nonlinear, 03 December 2012 - 06:18 PM.


#251 Yeyeto

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:37 PM

View PostBrand, on 03 December 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

Alright, just going to go down the list here...

1) From knight's gear alone you get 10.66% crit.
2) This build really should be run with a guardian or warrior that is supporty and can remove conditions (All teams should have one)
3) Perhaps not, under discussion now
4) Never had a problem with poison, in groups it gets cleansed, in solo I can remove it or heal through it.
5) It is an option, but it is much better to have your 30min food buff be a bonus, not a major facet of the build. Also food buffs tend to do unique things that runes can't.
6) Yes you do :P Sorry

Hope these answer those for you!

Edit: Sithicus and I, posting at the exact same time...

ok ty

if healing is not worth it with so low healingpower than maybe going 20/25/0/25/0 and swtiching to zerker and knight gear or just full knight could be an option. dont know if 5% less boon duration is a big difference but i think you could change food to fix that.
will try this build with rares
ty

#252 Thorfinnr

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:05 PM

OK...I follow the different lines of thought you guys are going down.

I don't follow the math as much as you guys do, but my gut says to add the DPS and give up some heal, you're going back down the glass cannon line, and I kinda like being able to survive. I move a lot to avoid damage, and i try to make sure I am positioned well when I use my shouts so that other people get the benefit and not just me. (I usually fire off FGJ and OMM as I am running through a line and then hit the GS4 followed immediately by GS5 to close the gap and be ready for GS2. Prior to this I try to get off some kills form the Rifle to stack up some Bloodlust to carry over when I close in. This works very well on Tequatl, btw...kill many risen whiule waiting and max out the Bloodlust stacks...then running in and out once he spawns. :cool:

Brand, what are the tweaks, if any, you are on board with, if I may ask? Any new thoughts on gear out(accessories) resulting from these discussions and ideas?

I have been using this build in parts as I level, at lvl 73 now, and plan to stick with it at 80 to finalize gear and such for PvE and Dungeon, and then look at a WvW set and builds for that style of play. It has worked very well and as I have leveled each time I add in an aspect of the build it makes a very noticeable difference.

Thanks for posting it, and thanks to all for the spirited and insightful discussions on the options.

Edited by Thorfinnr, 03 December 2012 - 09:09 PM.


#253 Brand

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:19 PM

View PostYeyeto, on 03 December 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

ok ty

if healing is not worth it with so low healingpower than maybe going 20/25/0/25/0 and swtiching to zerker and knight gear or just full knight could be an option. dont know if 5% less boon duration is a big difference but i think you could change food to fix that.
will try this build with rares
ty
5% boon duration would not hurt too bad, but the ton of survivability and healing you lose is an issue.

View PostNonlinear, on 03 December 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

To switch the build to be DPS orientated instead of more support orientated, I would probably go with either Knight's or Soldier's 6pc and Berserker trinkets and weapon.  Knight's seems to synergize well with warrior's since Warrior has naturally high health and you want high crit for procs.  If you want to go more glass cannon use more Berserker and less Knight in the gear slots too.  For traits I'd just use what seems to be a fairly standard GS DPS spec, 20/30/0/0/20.  Keep Arms line the same, remove the points from tactics and put them in to Strength for 10% more GS damage and Discipline for 10% more crit damage.  Only skill that is really needed is For Great Justice.

To compare the personal damage (which is what you trade for the support) I went to the mists and used berserker gems/jewel, boon duration (nerfed in PvP) and a GS to keep everything the same (and keep the crit high) then compared the two specs, mostly GS 1 and the last hit of hundred blades with similar might stacks.  The 10/30/0/30/0 build crit for around 10k-12k (and had an easier time keeping might up with the Boon Duration from traits) while the 20/30/0/0/20 build crit for about 14k-15k and the 20/30/0/0/20 build GS 1 crit for about 400 more.  At level 80, in terms of direct damage the extra 100 power from 10 points in strength is equal to almost 3 stacks of permanent might (35 power/cond per stack), and trading the 105 condition damage from the stacks for 10% condition duration from the 10 points.  The Boon duration won't make up for the 10% GS damage talent and the loss of crit damage (i.e. the 4k difference in 100b damage and the GS 1 crits) but you have a pretty good tradeoff when the support options are added without your warrior hitting like a wet noodle that hits for 600 and crits for 1k (which is what happens when people go 100% support)..
Frankly it's pretty obvious that a damage oriented build is going to provide more damage (No offense (AHAHA NO OFFENSE, GET IT?)) but the point of Sonic Boon is to deviate from that path a little. By putting those points in tactics we gain the capacity for higher might stacks (Supplementing our lost dps) and we also gain lower shout CDs (Boosting dps for us and the group by a significant margin) and shouts that heal (Increasing our own survivability AND support of the group).

I've taken your suggestions for higher crit damage into account though, and have devised a 10/25/5/30/0 build using this gear.

I'd like to know your take on that setup, we take 5 points out of Arms since we are gaining a lot of precision with the new Berserker's gear, those points go into defense to supplement healing and toughness lost (We end up with 13k shouts instead of 14k, not bad). I'll quote myself from earlier:

So here are the changes I'm seeing:
+136 Power
+71 Precision (4% Crit Rate)
+27% Crit Dmg (About 378 worth of Stats)
+11 Vitality
+3% Magic Find (This doesn't really matter but though I'd throw it in, won't count this stat in the totals below)
-286 Toughness
-135 Healing (Just under 1.3k heals)
-25 Condition Damage

Total gain of stats: 596
Total loss of stats: 446

We effectively get 150 more stats. Other than doing a good deal more damage, everything should be the same (Might stacking will be easier, though) except a minor loss in healing, a small loss to defense, 1 second less bleed time (And 1 less bleed damage lol).


So Nonlinear, what do you think? Anything you'd change? Do you like this new orientation of the build?

The damage will be significantly higher, and the survivability not significantly lower, hope to hear from you soon :)

Edited by Brand, 03 December 2012 - 09:35 PM.


#254 Brand

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:26 PM

View PostThorfinnr, on 03 December 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

OK...I follow the different lines of thought you guys are going down.

I don't follow the math as much as you guys do, but my gut says to add the DPS and give up some heal, you're going back down the glass cannon line, and I kinda like being able to survive. I move a lot to avoid damage, and i try to make sure I am positioned well when I use my shouts so that other people get the benefit and not just me. (I usually fire off FGJ and OMM as I am running through a line and then hit the GS4 followed immediately by GS5 to close the gap and be ready for GS2. Prior to this I try to get off some kills form the Rifle to stack up some Bloodlust to carry over when I close in. This works very well on Tequatl, btw...kill many risen whiule waiting and max out the Bloodlust stacks...then running in and out once he spawns. :cool:

Brand, what are the tweaks, if any, you are on board with, if I may ask? Any new thoughts on gear out(accessories) resulting from these discussions and ideas?

I have been using this build in parts as I level, at lvl 73 now, and plan to stick with it at 80 to finalize gear and such for PvE and Dungeon, and then look at a WvW set and builds for that style of play. It has worked very well and as I have leveled each time I add in an aspect of the build it makes a very noticeable difference.

Thanks for posting it, and thanks to all for the spirited and insightful discussions on the options.
No problem, glad you enjoy it :) It's funny, I'm actually starting to become a celebrity (A few folks stalked me to figure out my in game name apparently xD)!

As for the gear/stat changes I am on board with and support, see my post above this one and below yours. I'm just waiting to hear Nonlinear's opinion on it before I finalize it. Sithicus seems to approve of these changes as well.

AS you can see in the above post, you end up with effectively 150 more stats, your dps scales up much nicer, your healing only drops 300 every ~22 seconds, and your survivability isn't damaged too badly.

#255 Thorfinnr

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:05 PM

View PostBrand, on 03 December 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

No problem, glad you enjoy it :) It's funny, I'm actually starting to become a celebrity (A few folks stalked me to figure out my in game name apparently xD)!

As for the gear/stat changes I am on board with and support, see my post above this one and below yours. I'm just waiting to hear Nonlinear's opinion on it before I finalize it. Sithicus seems to approve of these changes as well.

AS you can see in the above post, you end up with effectively 150 more stats, your dps scales up much nicer, your healing only drops 300 every ~22 seconds, and your survivability isn't damaged too badly.

Gotcha...I like it!

Hey, I notice on the spreadsheet you don't go into a specific on the off-hand...like I said, I do use a Rifle with a Bloodlust. What kind of baseline would you use on the Rifle, is there a Beserker's Rifle of Hitting Really Really Hard?(or somehting more in line with game terms...lol) I usually try to go for Prec/Power/Tough or Prec/Power/Crit is I can find one with those stats.

What Legendary GS do you think will compliment this build best? Haven't seen anyone ask that one yet...lol I haven't done much research into the Legendary Weaps yet, interesting to hear what you and the other guys think. :)

#256 Brand

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:19 PM

View PostThorfinnr, on 03 December 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

Gotcha...I like it!

Hey, I notice on the spreadsheet you don't go into a specific on the off-hand...like I said, I do use a Rifle with a Bloodlust. What kind of baseline would you use on the Rifle, is there a Beserker's Rifle of Hitting Really Really Hard?(or somehting more in line with game terms...lol) I usually try to go for Prec/Power/Tough or Prec/Power/Crit is I can find one with those stats.

What Legendary GS do you think will compliment this build best? Haven't seen anyone ask that one yet...lol I haven't done much research into the Legendary Weaps yet, interesting to hear what you and the other guys think. :)
Well, I used to say go Cleric's rifle, but I'm unsure now. Bloodlust is what I recommend though, and as of now I'd probably say go with a Berserker's rifle.

There's a reason I like this build so much and got into it. Brand (My character) is a golden sort of sun-warrior, you could say. I would actually say he's the perfect character, everything about him matches up and is consistent with his theme, this build is one of those things. He is in part based on a Paragon from GW1 (I'm blessed by Kormir) and this build uses shouts, gives support, has a signet, uses adrenaline to support and do damage (Strength V and our Healing Surge), etc. All of these things are things Paragons do in GW1.

As such, the legendary I plan on getting is Sunrise, furthering my affiliation with the sun and Kormir/Paragons (Also, Signet of Rage looks like a sun coming out from behind clouds to me when you activate it, I think that's sweet :P)

But all that's just me, I'm not going to go into my theme any more here because it's off topic and lengthy would be an understatement.
Khrysaor is the sword I use right now, but Sunrise definitely fits this build best in my opinion (Since the build was partially created concerning my theme, which Sunrise is a large part of)

Edit: I'm going to be posting a huge reply to the invincible berserker's thread soon, if anyone cares to look at it and back me up :P

Edited by Brand, 03 December 2012 - 10:22 PM.


#257 Thorfinnr

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:33 PM

View PostBrand, on 03 December 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

Well, I used to say go Cleric's rifle, but I'm unsure now. Bloodlust is what I recommend though, and as of now I'd probably say go with a Berserker's rifle.

There's a reason I like this build so much and got into it. Brand (My character) is a golden sort of sun-warrior, you could say. I would actually say he's the perfect character, everything about him matches up and is consistent with his theme, this build is one of those things. He is in part based on a Paragon from GW1 (I'm blessed by Kormir) and this build uses shouts, gives support, has a signet, uses adrenaline to support and do damage (Strength V and our Healing Surge), etc. All of these things are things Paragons do in GW1.

As such, the legendary I plan on getting is Sunrise, furthering my affiliation with the sun and Kormir/Paragons (Also, Signet of Rage looks like a sun coming out from behind clouds to me when you activate it, I think that's sweet :P)

But all that's just me, I'm not going to go into my theme any more here because it's off topic and lengthy would be an understatement.
Khrysaor is the sword I use right now, but Sunrise definitely fits this build best in my opinion (Since the build was partially created concerning my theme, which Sunrise is a large part of)

Edit: I'm going to be posting a huge reply to the invincible berserker's thread soon, if anyone cares to look at it and back me up :P

Gotcha...and makes sense in what you described.

I will keep an eye out for a Beserker Rifle.

Spirit of my toon is a Norn Tactician that sees the benefit of support, but as a Norn is also pre-disposed to causing as much havok as possible. That's one reason that when I go back and run with friends or my kids in the lower areas with their new toons, I will swap out the Elite Sig for either Wolf or Bear...usually Wolf, cause they its always cool to see this giant Wolf-man fly in and pounce on an enemy and start ripping it apart...at leats my kids think its waaay cool... :cool:

But that's why I like this build as well...it gives that sense of balance that a tactician would look for, but still able to walk in and put an ememy down, with extreme prejudice, when necessary...to quote one of my fav 5FDP songs and one of the mottos of the Marines..."No One Gets Left Behind!"

#258 Brand

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:23 PM

I'm going to pretend you're quoting Lilo and Stitch, though. Yes though, I would use a sword that looks good on your character and your theme or "Spirit" as you put it. A legendary is just a skin, and like any other skin it sometimes is not what we are looking for.

Huge post on Red_Falcon's Invincible Berserker thread now up, I wanted to make sure people understood why the build is so inefficient. Not to mention do a little muckraking and expose the truth on a lot of falsities his build promises.

Hope people find the post informative, and I hope it answers any of the "Sonic Boon Vs. Invincible Berserker" questions seen earlier in the comments.

#259 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:43 AM

View PostBrand, on 03 December 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:


There's a reason I like this build so much and got into it. Brand (My character) is a golden sort of sun-warrior, you could say. I would actually say he's the perfect character, everything about him matches up and is consistent with his theme, this build is one of those things

*cough*Sunspear*cough* I'm not sure Palowa Joko would approve of you ;)

One of the themes I gathered from reading the last few posts is that It could be a really nice idea to identify areas where you could appropriately tweak something to get a little something "different" so to speak. It's already great that Tactics is such a flexible trait line, I'm finding a similar case with Defense too. We could see about adding appropriate sort of "side-ideas" to the core ideology of the build. What do you think of that?

I keep getting hounded on some things, like the recurring theme of "oh but Battle Standard affects the whole team ra ra ra", and I get a little tired of refuting how it ISN'T always useful, yet it most certainly DOES have good uses...

#260 Brand

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:56 AM

View PostSithicus Dias, on 04 December 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

*cough*Sunspear*cough* I'm not sure Palowa Joko would approve of you ;)

One of the themes I gathered from reading the last few posts is that It could be a really nice idea to identify areas where you could appropriately tweak something to get a little something "different" so to speak. It's already great that Tactics is such a flexible trait line, I'm finding a similar case with Defense too. We could see about adding appropriate sort of "side-ideas" to the core ideology of the build. What do you think of that?

I keep getting hounded on some things, like the recurring theme of "oh but Battle Standard affects the whole team ra ra ra", and I get a little tired of refuting how it ISN'T always useful, yet it most certainly DOES have good uses...
Lol, he's definitely based a lot on a Paragon/Sunspear, his theme is actually really extensive. It's kind of amazing, literally EVERYTHING about Brand matches up with his theme, so could ask me anything, "How does X relate to Y?" and I'd be able to tell you.

I'm not sure about the side ideas thing, personally I love this build so much because it fit's with my theme AND playstyle (<3 Paladins).

Did you read my post there then, about his build? It's crazy that he claims to have all that power when he has maybe 12 stacks of might DURING BS, and only 70% up time on Fury, not to mention all of the wasted traits and etc. I really felt as though it was my duty to bring some light to that post. (Oh god, I didn't even mean to do that... Duty? Light? I'm such a paladin.)

#261 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:39 AM

View PostBrand, on 04 December 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

Lol, he's definitely based a lot on a Paragon/Sunspear, his theme is actually really extensive. It's kind of amazing, literally EVERYTHING about Brand matches up with his theme, so could ask me anything, "How does X relate to Y?" and I'd be able to tell you.

I'm not sure about the side ideas thing, personally I love this build so much because it fit's with my theme AND playstyle (<3 Paladins).

Did you read my post there then, about his build? It's crazy that he claims to have all that power when he has maybe 12 stacks of might DURING BS, and only 70% up time on Fury, not to mention all of the wasted traits and etc. I really felt as though it was my duty to bring some light to that post. (Oh god, I didn't even mean to do that... Duty? Light? I'm such a paladin.)

Firstly, I heal more, and defend more, so if anyone's more of a Paladin it's me :P Except for my Abyss/Black armour, I suppose I'd fit in with the Mordant Crescent.

I did see the post yeah, some people try too hard to change a build that's already fine tuned, and since changing one thing probably makes something else useless, it takes an entire process of re-defining the build. From a build creator's standpoint, I almost want to say just shut up and take my build :P

#262 Brand

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:11 PM

View PostSithicus Dias, on 04 December 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

Firstly, I heal more, and defend more, so if anyone's more of a Paladin it's me :P Except for my Abyss/Black armour, I suppose I'd fit in with the Mordant Crescent.

I did see the post yeah, some people try too hard to change a build that's already fine tuned, and since changing one thing probably makes something else useless, it takes an entire process of re-defining the build. From a build creator's standpoint, I almost want to say just shut up and take my build :P
No way, Paladins bring justice to people, you're more like a Monk or something. You need to do dps to be a paladin >:[ Justice! Retribution! Avenge! (Actually I'd say you're more like a Guardian, I firmly believe that the classic paladin is based on dps, with some nice support thrown in. Guardians are like prot pallys)

Also, I don't know how you can stand using those shoulders with that armor, the shoulders hover 2 feet off your chest!

And yeah I know right? (Were talking about the same post though, right? The one on Invincible Berserker thread?)

Edited by Brand, 04 December 2012 - 12:13 PM.


#263 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:26 PM

View PostBrand, on 04 December 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

And yeah I know right? (Were talking about the same post though, right? The one on Invincible Berserker thread?)

Yeah, I just don't get why it's as popular as it is. Although i suppose it's because at the time it was written, there was very little in the way of well written builds (let alone DPS builds).

#264 Brand

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:07 PM

View PostSithicus Dias, on 04 December 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

Yeah, I just don't get why it's as popular as it is. Although i suppose it's because at the time it was written, there was very little in the way of well written builds (let alone DPS builds).
Not to mention it's called "Invincible", people will click if you use a word like that. MrCats is arguing with me right now that his version of Red_Falcon's build works perfectly fine. I'm like "UGH, I'm saying that Red_Falcon's build doesn't work, NOT YOURS!"

Even with MrCat's build though, you cannot get 25 stacks of might on a single target (Well, maybe for a few seconds, max)

It frustrates me to no end when I post something with mathematical proof and people instigate and assume things >.< I wish people would read things thoroughly, or at least ask questions before they ranted about what THEY THOUGHT I was saying.

On topic though: Nonlinear isn't really responding, but I think the change is best, so starting as soon as I update the post, the new build will be in place.

#265 Echosgold

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:13 PM

Is there an alternative to the Superior monk rune?

#266 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:27 PM

I think half of the issue is that some people just want the buzzwords, they want "Great Damage, Great Survivibility, Great Mobility, etc" , not necessarily the mathematical proof. But how people will simply defy reason with conjecture will always confuse me.

#267 Brand

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:14 PM

View PostEchosgold, on 04 December 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

Is there an alternative to the Superior monk rune?
Nope! Well, there is. Superior Rune of the Water, but since we use BOTH of those runes in the build... You cannot replace the runes of the monk.

#268 Lilitu

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:25 PM

Good to see this thread still going. Arguably one of the best PvE warrior builds.
I personally haven't played or posted for weeks.. just dropping by :)

#269 Brand

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 01:12 AM

View PostLilitu, on 04 December 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

Good to see this thread still going. Arguably one of the best PvE warrior builds.
I personally haven't played or posted for weeks.. just dropping by :)
Good to see you Lilitu! And aww thanx <3 Start playing an posting :o
Look forward to your opinion on the new changes, by the way!

#270 Barkokajin

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:48 AM

Hi! So I love your build, I've been following your thread for a while lol, and I just recently saw you post on The invincible thread (what a joke) and I really respect your ideas and how your build works. I'm just a little confused about how exactly you keep 25 stacks of might constant, and how does this build have 68% crit? I have the exact same gear from your spreadsheet and the same build (the newer one with 5 defense points) and I barely have 41% crit, without fury. Granted, I still crit like crazy I'm just wondering if there's something I'm doing wrong or you could explain to me some of the math behind it? I also have might above 15 almost all the time and during boss fights I do have 25 stacks pretty much constant, but is that supposed to be only for boss fights and large mob fights? Am I supposed to be having 25 stacks in solo combat with just one enemy? I'm not complaining really, it still works wonders and it's the best build I've seen, just would like to know if I could fix some stuff. Thanks!




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