657 replies to this topic

[MrCats]

DrMatt07, on 10 December 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

Created an account to say thanks for the build Only changes I have made are replacing 'on my mark' with the charr 'battleroar' skill for the extra fury and might party support (works rly well with the builds added boon duration). I'm also using chocolate raspberry creams as food for the cheap 14% longer boon duration while under a boon (+34% MF as well), which you always are with this build. These 2 changes allow me to give my party perma fury + 9/10 might. If you are a charr warrior it might be worth trying this out

I don't believe the battle roar is classed as a shout so you don't get the heal.

[DrMatt07]

ye thats true unfortuntely, but Id rather have the perma fury/10might for my team. plus the battle roar sounds cool

also chocolate omnomberry creams are +20% boon duration and 40% mf while under boon, perfect for this build rly

[Brand]

Ok Matt, I appreciate you making an account just to post here and I'm glad you like the build

However, there are some points I'd like to bring to your attention:
1) We already get permafury and 25 stacks of might, any additional Boon Duration is wasted (Chocomnomberry Creams). So, perfect for the build? Not so much Good for farming with this build? Sure

2) You say that Battle Roar gives your team permafury and 10stacks of might, which isn't entirely true. First off, you alreasdy give ~14 seconds of Fury every 20 seconds, I'm unaware of any class that can't put up 6 seconds of Fury on themselves every 20 seconds to make it permanant. If you are using a whole skill just to give them something they can already do, it's pretty wasted. Not to mention that Battle Roar only gives 9.6 seconds of Fury every 35 seconds with this build, meaning that you can't keep up CONSTANT Fury even with both skills. Secondly, it only gives 2 stacks of Might for 27 seconds, which is 77% uptime on those two stacks. So for 77% of the time (Not constant) you get 8 Might (Not 10) on yourself and allies rather than 6.

3) The heal on OMM is basically the main reason we take it, it contributes a lot and on any single target non champions it will provide a significant dps boost due to the Vulnerability.

So all in all, feel free to use your rendition! I know that I'd love to use a human racial if any were good. I'm just letting you know that it's not all you think it is, and you're losing some optimal performance.

Edit: Oops, I didn't factor in your added Boon duration, it might be enough to push the Fury from Battle Roar into constant, but the Might will never get above 2 stacks. You also lose your Omnomberry Pie by using that food, which is a significant part of this builds survivability (As any crit based build).

Edited by Brand, 10 December 2012 - 08:59 PM.

[DrMatt07]

Hey thanks for reply! Ye I can confirm that my set up does give the party perma fury. You can't necessarily assume that every other person in the party has fury in their build in my experience, and in any case I end up saving them the trouble. Party might just from me flicks between 9 and 11 most of the time when battleroar+FGJ has been up for a min or so, never goes lower, sometimes higher. Also the 20% boon food makes my own might/swiftness last longer as well. It's not easy in my experience to keep might above 20 if you have to stay mobile e.g. in dungeons, so the extra duration helps for me. For bosses I still use OMM, but in most large battles its not that useful imop, caus I don't know who to use OMM on half the time. Anyway its only minor tweaks to a great build to suit my own playstyle, so thanks

[Sithicus Dias]

I've been running around testing a dual-axe build with Omnomberry Pie, just to get a feel for how good the survivability is. To be honest, you notice it when you're doing Whirling Axe surrounded by 5 mobs, but it doesn't really allow you to continue to stand toe to toe with dangerous mobs. Given the Axe hits far more frequently than a Greatsword, the significance of the life-steal must be called into question. I still find myself having to dodge frequently, in that I wouldn't say that the Omnomberry Pie causes me to remain in a situation I would normally dodge out of, I still dodge out of it. This testing was done with ~80% crit on dual-axes, also it was in Fractals.

To summarize what I actually mean is, even during HB on 3 mobs, I just don't think you regain enough health to weather an assault from 1+ mobs. In this way, the more effective safety mechanism might be the Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew, just for extra dodges.

I played around gearing a build around life-stealing, but it promotes that feeling of arrogance, like if you just attack enemies for long enough it will all be fine, I just feel like I'd prefer the dodge. (I know I keep talking about axes, but it's all relative).

Edited by Sithicus Dias, 11 December 2012 - 04:23 PM.

[The Cookie Muncher]

I would just like to say thank you for this awesome build.

I used to run with soldier gear and emerald trinkets with all traits in defence and vitality. It was nice for a while but noticed my DPS was very low.

I have been running this build for a few days now and I at group events in Orr I have seen some of my damage go over 25k with HB.
And have noticed my Fury and swiftness around the 3 minute mark using the elite skill, FGJ and War Horn.

Also the small heals came in very handy when I saw my health go every every low (almost dead) and I have just a few seconds left for my surge to recharge those mini heals give me the time to pop the healing Surge, It has saved my skin many times

I also use the Superior Sharpening Stonesand Omnomberry Pie or Bowls of Curry Butternut Squash Soup

Thanks Again

[crosswound81]

has anyone tried this build in fractals? i went with suggested setup on gear/traits in fractals and the most i've seen 100b do with 25 stacks of might was 14k. is the 26k not in fractals and just trash mobs?

i'm wondering if i might have missed something because if its 20k+ regularly it would be nice.

[Brand]

I still haven't been to Fractals yet, but if the damage is less there for this build, then it is less for every build. They only thing that could drop this build's damage is increased armor on mobs, which would effect other builds in the same way.

The Cookie Muncher, on 11 December 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

I would just like to say thank you for this awesome build.

I used to run with soldier gear and emerald trinkets with all traits in defence and vitality. It was nice for a while but noticed my DPS was very low.

I have been running this build for a few days now and I at group events in Orr I have seen some of my damage go over 25k with HB.
And have noticed my Fury and swiftness around the 3 minute mark using the elite skill, FGJ and War Horn.

Also the small heals came in very handy when I saw my health go every every low (almost dead) and I have just a few seconds left for my surge to recharge those mini heals give me the time to pop the healing Surge, It has saved my skin many times

I also use the Superior Sharpening Stonesand Omnomberry Pie or Bowls of Curry Butternut Squash Soup

Thanks Again

No problem, glad you enjoy the build! Don't forget to rate the thread if you like! ^^

Also, Sithicus, How long does the Might from the soup last? Is it affected by Boon duration?

[crosswound81]

so the damage is 20k+ constantly? well i tried the build in ac exp and coe exp i didn't get past 12k-14k i'm just wondering if people are doing something different.

[Brand]

Sithicus Dias, on 11 December 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

In this way, the more effective safety mechanism might be the Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew, just for extra dodges.

How long does the Might last? Is it affected by Boon/Might duration?

[Sithicus Dias]

Brand, on 11 December 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

How long does the Might last? Is it affected by Boon/Might duration?

5 seconds, and it will be affected, same as any boon.

[Bael Darkfist]

I've been using this build for farming, dungeons, and killing the world dragons.

I've only been able to get those delicious 25k+ crits with a full constant stack of 25 might on the Dragons and in Fractals.

However.. I'm not fully stated for the build yet, but I'm working on it.. Still have the precision up the nose though.

[Shadowresli]

Very interesting build. I was looking around for something better than my 4 signet warrior (he's not really fun to play in orr). Also some of the math here got lost in translation, but i would like to give this build a try. two questions though:

how viable is this build for playing solo (i still have some exploring to do)?

my gear isn't as good yet (my guardian takes priority and gold is scarce), how problematic is that?

[Sithicus Dias]

Shadowresli, on 12 December 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

how viable is this build for playing solo (i still have some exploring to do)?

my gear isn't as good yet (my guardian takes priority and gold is scarce), how problematic is that?

Solo-ing is incredibly easy almost wherever you go, this build is no different, you won't have any issues whatsoever.

Sub optimal gear won't ruin it, but not having Sigil of Strength will have an effect. In the meantime you could run with a Sigil that gives you 10 precision each kill, giving you a bunch more crit chance. Also, you can usually purchase a box of Rare ___ Armour (Knights in this case) for fairly cheap, so you could start there. The core of the build is naturally Trait-centric, the really clever stuff comes in there. It just won't work quite as well without Exotics is all. To summarize, non-optimal gear will pretty much translate to you not being able to hold up 25 stacks of might, or at least not as well as supporters of this build claim.

[Thorfinnr]

Sithicus Dias, on 12 December 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

It just won't work quite as well without Exotics is all. To summarize, non-optimal gear will pretty much translate to you not being able to hold up 25 stacks of might, or at least not as well as supporters of this build claim.

Just wnated to chime in here...I have to agree with this assessment...I do not have optimal gear as of yet, and best I get are around 15-18 stacks of might consistently...again, I am not geared out to the max for the build yet.

Now, with that being said, I still find the build to be very effective and quite useful for solo-ing...with a couple minor exceptions...when up against 'Champion' mobs...ya gotta have help...period...not sure if that will change once I get all the right stuff.

The other tactic I use, and it does seem to benefit, is the Sigil of Bloodlust on the Rifle...I use the rifle and max out my stack of Bloodlust(only have major right now so that would be +7 x 25 = +175 to power) and as long as I don't go to a downed state, I hit that much harder.

Just to clarify, when I mention 'Gear', I include the jewlery/accesories in that term.

I think the difference between Rare Gear and the Exotic Gear will definately be noticeable...as well as the addition of the Superior vs. Major SIgils on the weapons.

Still fun to play, and was very effective for leveling. Now I'm at 80, and just working on putting all the stats for gear together. (Actually wokring on leveling my crafting so I can make the Knight's Draconic to get all the stats I want, as a couple of the armor skins I like don't have the stats...lol...it may take me a bit longer to get the gear this way...but hey...i'm picky and i want my war to look cool...

[Sithicus Dias]

Thorfinnr, on 12 December 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

Now, with that being said, I still find the build to be very effective and quite useful for solo-ing...with a couple minor exceptions...when up against 'Champion' mobs...ya gotta have help...period...not sure if that will change once I get all the right stuff.

I think the difference between Rare Gear and the Exotic Gear will definately be noticeable...as well as the addition of the Superior vs. Major SIgils on the weapons.

Well Champion mobs aren't really meant to be solo-able, melee classes would struggle to solo a champ anyway. Ranged kiting is possible, but yeah, not really going to happen.

As for the Rare to Exotic transition, I agree, if nothing else the additional Armour (attribute) you get is significantly noticeable.

[Songbringer]

So, I have been reading a lot of builds lately and have followed this one for awhile and I finally decided to go with this one. I am in the process of setting up for it(made my armor, weps, got the runes, etc etc...) however, I was wondering if you would suggest waiting to make the jewelry and get ascended gear? I plan on getting it from doing fractals and saving up to craft the one that costs like 500e(can't remember the name) So, should I just deal with the bit of damage loss until I obtain the rings and backpiece from fotm?


Edit:

Why don't you equip another fire rune onto your water breather for another 50power? Basing this question off it isn't listed in your spread sheet. I haven't actually bothered to look into getting a new water breather but is it because there are no water breathers high enough level to be able to use a sup rune on it?

Edited by Songbringer, 12 December 2012 - 07:50 PM.

[Lucav]

There is a level 80 karma underwater helm, and as far as I know the bonuses from it, including the rune, only apply underwater.

[Shadowresli]

Thanks guys for the quick responses. I see that there is still a lot of work ahead of me. I tried my first dungeon today (with my better equipped guardian) and from what i saw, with my warrior as the class cannon he is, i would have spent a lot more time face down in the dirt.

to OP and contributors: keep up the good work

[Brand]

I think everyone answered all the questions before I got a chance to
Anyway, thanks all who posted their support, hope you got your questions answered!

For those of you who love me, and want to see me succeed, please vote for my little screenshot comic thingy here
(I think all you have to do is "Like" it...? Thanks if you do, took a little bit to get just right Those dang Divinity's Reach kids are so annoying!)

Edited by Brand, 12 December 2012 - 10:35 PM.

[Brand]

Ugh, so I am considering taking out OMM for SoS or EP

Endure Pain is obvious in what it does. Signet of Stamina would give us the effects of the Orrian Stew (Basically) while we use the Omnomberry Pie. SoS will also give us extra condition removal, should we desperately need it.

Thoughts? (Especially you, Sithicus)

Edit: Actually wait... That would cause us to heal less than banners wouldn't it? How much less healing would we do than banners? Or would we still be above? With 1292 heals x2.

Edited by Brand, 14 December 2012 - 05:13 AM.

[Sithicus Dias]

If you drop a shout, then it works out that over 100 seconds, 2x Shouts heals 15504, and Banners heal ~14500. Dropping a shout would make an already small amount of healing, become absolutely trivial. Given that there are inconsistencies with shouts, and you lose the phantom benefits of OMM, Banners are now way more viable.

[jeddahwe]

Some pages ago you mentioned this build is not for WvW, you still feel that way?

[Sithicus Dias]

jeddahwe, on 14 December 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

Some pages ago you mentioned this build is not for WvW, you still feel that way?

I'm sure it's adaptable in some way, but a lot of the methodology of the build relies on being able to do things you can't do in WvW, like stacking up 25 might by using HB on 3 "mobs". I wouldn't really rate GS for WvW, it's more effective to bring out the Control weapons like Hammer, or Mace/Shield. And of course since zergs are a pain, a ranged weapon too.

[jejaj]

What do you think about change Healing Signet for Healing Surge?

[Brand]

Sithicus Dias, on 14 December 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

If you drop a shout, then it works out that over 100 seconds, 2x Shouts heals 15504, and Banners heal ~14500. Dropping a shout would make an already small amount of healing, become absolutely trivial. Given that there are inconsistencies with shouts, and you lose the phantom benefits of OMM, Banners are now way more viable.

Figured.

jeddahwe, on 14 December 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

Some pages ago you mentioned this build is not for WvW, you still feel that way?

Yes, but people have tweaked it to fit. It's posted in the PvE section for a reason I haven't played WvW nor used this build in it. Ergo I do not know how it works truly but I do not suspect it to be that great.

jejaj, on 14 December 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

What do you think about change Healing Signet for Healing Surge?

Healing Signet = 6120 Healing every 30 seconds
Healing Surge = 8565 Healing every 30 seconds

So, not really good. Healsig is normally only used in a regeneration, mobility, or signet build. Perhaps with Omnomberry Pie it would be better... I'll test it again for you. I can't see the regen being better than the burst heal though.

(Note: I did use mending for a bit, and the like 3k less healing really took a hit on my survivability, even with the added condition removal)

[Sithicus Dias]

Brand, on 14 December 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

Healing Signet = 6120 Healing every 30 seconds
Healing Surge = 8565 Healing every 30 seconds

So, not really good. Healsig is normally only used in a regeneration, mobility, or signet build. Perhaps with Omnomberry Pie it would be better... I'll test it again for you. I can't see the regen being better than the burst heal though.

(Note: I did use mending for a bit, and the like 3k less healing really took a hit on my survivability, even with the added condition removal)

The thing about Healing Signet is that if you're fairly good at dodging etc, you might not have to heal as often, leading to reaping the benefits of the regeneration it provides. However if you had the Disc talent Signet Mastery, the cooldown becomes 16 seconds, making it more viable in general, not because of the regen, but because of the overall healing.

[Thorfinnr]

Sithicus Dias, on 14 December 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

The thing about Healing Signet is that if you're fairly good at dodging etc, you might not have to heal as often, leading to reaping the benefits of the regeneration it provides. However if you had the Disc talent Signet Mastery, the cooldown becomes 16 seconds, making it more viable in general, not because of the regen, but because of the overall healing.

To go along this line of thought...what do you guys think of taking 6 soldier runes, to have each shout get rid of a condition(and i think, haven't tested it yet, that it also takes a condition off allies close to you)...I understand we would be giving up both might and boon duration, and the extra healing...but would it not be a fair trade off once you add in the extra toughness and vitality...just kinda thinking out loud...the math may prove it to be too big a sacrifice...maybe adjusting some accessories to balance out the give and take a bit?

just wondering what your thoughts are on this...

Fight on fellow warriors...

[Thorfinnr]

And if you go 10/20/0/30/10...sure you give up some armor9by giving up the 5 in defense trait line), and extra damage to bleeding foes(5 points off arms)...but you gain the toughness and vtality from the soldier runes...and get the benefit of a quicker healing signet as SIthicus pointed out...i get it...we're reducing DPS...but also adding more benefit for a group(if you're running in one) with shouts now doing their normal benefits plus healing AND Condition removal allowing yourself to get rid of the various/repetitive conditions that you get hit with in the higher level areas like Orr...plus with 10 points in Disc, you get the extra 10% of crit damage...wow...i think i have given myself a headache...lol

again...just thoughts...i'm sure if the numbers get plugged in there will be a logical reason why this isn't as effective...looking forward to seeing that...

and signet mastery would speed up signet of rage recharge...there...done...lol

[Sithicus Dias]

Soldier Runes are a good idea, but that's my opinion. Brand will most certainly respond with a 10,000 word response telling you why they aren't viable here. So i'll sum it up. The paradigm of this build is Boon Duration, so you can maintain all those stacks of Might longer. If you deviate from the Trait choices, or Rune/Sigil choices, you are irrevocably damaging your ability to carry out that paradigm. As such, these changes result in you no longer running Sonic Boon, but something else.

Taking Soldier Runes puts you down a more supportive path than Sonic Boon, and if that is a way you think you might enjoy playing more, have a read of my thread, which details very defensive methods of support: http://www.guildwars...lds-think-tank/