68 replies to this topic

[Zeratulz]

/discuss

http://www.youtube.c...&v=Ru_rXq2LYg0#!

[Red_Falcon]

J.Sharp said the Rifle is underwhelming and shortbow/daggers OP.
I want to see his face when he sees this.

[Oryx]

Nerfs are coming!

[Emolesbian]

I don't want to argue about that. But you really should try to see further than numbers on a screen...like hmmm:

- conditions' on target
- target's current life
- shot position
- skill's effectiveness (damages, cooldown, constraints...)
- is target aware of my presence?
- etc etc...

  In this vid it's obvious that in each sequences, the player was at the right spot at the right time with all criterias to make a big shot (and we can't see the cut(losing) scenes huh?). It's clearly not about "OPness"...but just luck. (Seriously who the hell cannot counter a channeling KIll shot when he see it? XD).

[Mursie]

this video clearly indicates that thiefs need a nerf and warriors need another buff.  luckily anet plans to do that on the 15th.  stupid thieves... so freaking OP with their 10k hp and 900 toughness

[Oryx]

Emolesbian, on 10 November 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

I don't want to argue about that. But you really should try to see further than numbers on a screen...like hmmm:

- conditions' on target
- target's current life
- shot position
- skill's effectiveness (damages, cooldown, constraints...)
- is target aware of my presence?
- etc etc...

  In this vid it's obvious that in each sequences, the player was at the right spot at the right time with all criterias to make a big shot (and we can't see the cut(losing) scenes huh?). It's clearly not about "OPness"...but just luck. (Seriously who the hell cannot counter a channeling KIll shot when he see it? XD).

Seriously?
The fact that he hit multiple people for 13-20k dmg while comfortably at 1200 range is totally okay with you?
nothing wrong with that?
i wonder if you'd see a 1.75sec channeling skill in the middle of those wvw zergs.

[Cenumis]

Oryx, on 10 November 2012 - 12:43 AM, said:

Seriously?
The fact that he hit multiple people for 13-20k dmg while comfortably at 1200 range is totally okay with you?
nothing wrong with that?
i wonder if you'd see a 1.75sec channeling skill in the middle of those wvw zergs.

1500 range is for killshot.

[johncurse124]

Quote

Seriously?
The fact that he hit multiple people for 13-20k dmg while comfortably at 1200 range is totally okay with you?
nothing wrong with that?
i wonder if you'd see a 1.75sec channeling skill in the middle of those wvw zergs.

If it involves backstab, it's obviously always overpowered and needs a nerf, even if the people defending backstab use similar justifications.

If it's any other high burst from any other class, it's totally balanced and the person complaining just needs to learn to play.

Gotta love it, eh?

[Invoky]

Oryx, on 10 November 2012 - 12:43 AM, said:

Seriously?
The fact that he hit multiple people for 13-20k dmg while comfortably at 1200 range is totally okay with you?
nothing wrong with that?
i wonder if you'd see a 1.75sec channeling skill in the middle of those wvw zergs.

I have full exotic berserker war and my highest KS is 12k as far as I remember. So I dont see how he was able to hit 20k unless the people he hit were either lv1 or using blue/green gears. There is just no way that every KS he does is 20k.

This movie is cool and all but it is not practical. It works in WvW because WvW is just zergfest. There are many other things you can complain about WvW and this is just a small fraction of it. I dare that he try exactly the same build/playstyle in Tpvp against competent player.

[Featherman]

Invoky, on 10 November 2012 - 06:25 AM, said:

I have full exotic berserker war and my highest KS is 12k as far as I remember. So I dont see how he was able to hit 20k unless the people he hit were either lv1 or using blue/green gears. There is just no way that every KS he does is 20k.

This movie is cool and all but it is not practical. It works in WvW because WvW is just zergfest. There are many other things you can complain about WvW and this is just a small fraction of it. I dare that he try exactly the same build/playstyle in Tpvp against competent player.

It's the lowest tier bracket too so expect people to be undergeared, underleveled and underskilled. He was most likely showcasing his best moments playing as his warrior so the video is not necessarily indicative of his performance as a whole, but I expect it to be at least above average for that server.

I must say though Kill Shot is an excellent application of the sigil of fire. I have to try this out

Edited by Featherman, 10 November 2012 - 06:45 AM.

[vengeance22]

All the comments can be turned and said the same about thiefs....what you can't dodge my SB shot? yes I can Bs someone for 15k-20k but most of the time its 7-10k depending on the gear. The thing you can't compare is if that warrior got jumped or forced into melee he still has a ton more amor and hp's then a thief.
It all the same BS (I dont mean backstab either) in any MMO, wwwaaaa my lvl 60 got one shotted by a 80 thief they need nerf, then the same person posts on the warrior forum wwwaaaa my 60 got one shotted by a warrior they need a nerf. then when the 60 hits level 80 and has the gear and is doing the one shotting it's all good.
It's stupid, and as mention before in so many posts, if they decide to nerf burst damage it shuold be the same day roll out nerf to all classes/skills that do burst not just one..thats when you get balancing issues.

[Dark]

Some insane damage you got there... mind posting your complete build?

[Murderer]

You can do this kind of damage on any build using berserker gear. The only problem is the person has to be like lvl 30, in the downed state or have like 25 stacks of vulnerability on them, while the warrior has like 25 stacks of might. I have landed a 20k kill shot on a player and 5 mins later I landed a 2k dmg one on a guardian with some toughness. Overall the rifle is just lackluster and only provides cheap thrill for players who think a large dmg number on a single target means anything in WvW. I use a bow over the rifle in anything involving more than 15 players.

Edit- Well I decided to watch half the video and sure enough most of what I said was true. Almost all those kills are on downed opponents or players with a green arrow showing they have been lvled up. Now before more thiefs comes on here and cry ... in no way am I saying thiefs need a nerf, I think they are designed to work how they are, tons of dmg fast but can die fast. The same can be said with a rifle warrior, I have got hit for 12k before while in my glass cannon rifle build.

Edited by Murderer, 10 November 2012 - 09:33 PM.

[Psikerlord]

kill shot is obviously really great in wvw when you can really sniper with it. No arguing with that, or that in 1v1 it is mostly useless. But by geez it looks like awesome fun in wvw !!!!

[jeddahwe]

Look at what happens as soon as he has a couple of DoT;s. he goes down like a sack of potatoes.

[Symbiont]

jeddahwe, on 11 November 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

Look at what happens as soon as he has a couple of DoT;s. he goes down like a sack of potatoes.

ah, the same argument that is tried to defend thieves.

[MrMastodonFarm]

*Glass Cannon*

[NuclearDonut]

What he didn't show was the hundreds of times he was 1 shotted by any auto-attack in the game. He's running a super situational build, he even says in the description that he only has success because his guild is a very well organized WvWvW group and he fills the long range damage role. He's a Warrior so he has no way to escape a close range fight, so whenever anyone focuses him he doesn't stand a chance.

[Featherman]

^Same can be said about thieves. You know the bad ones who don't know how to use their escapes properly and are exemplified by those defending the class.

[NuclearDonut]

Featherman, on 11 November 2012 - 11:15 PM, said:

^Same can be said about thieves. You know the bad ones who don't know how to use their escapes properly and are exemplified by those defending the class.

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying, so I'm just gonna assume you agree with me. Correct me if I'm wrong, that's just what I got from what you said.

[Featherman]

NuclearDonut, on 11 November 2012 - 11:19 PM, said:

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying, so I'm just gonna assume you agree with me. Correct me if I'm wrong, that's just what I got from what you said.

It's probably my fault that the sarcasm didn't go through, but yes I'm agreeing with you. Essentially, the warrior is as useful as a bad thief.

Edited by Featherman, 11 November 2012 - 11:21 PM.

[Symbiont]

NuclearDonut, on 11 November 2012 - 11:05 PM, said:

He's a Warrior so he has no way to escape a close range fight

bwhahaha

Featherman, on 11 November 2012 - 11:15 PM, said:

the bad ones who don't know how to use their escapes properly

i'm sure warriors can't switch to another weapon set and use, i don't know Rush, Savage Leap or even Shield Bash. or combine some of those with Bull's Charge.

[NuclearDonut]

Symbiont, on 11 November 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

bwhahaha



i'm sure warriors can't switch to another weapon set and use, i don't know Rush, Savage Leap or even Shield Bash. or combine some of those with Bull's Charge.

That sounds good in theory, but try it before you say it. I've tried to escape with those kinds of mobility skills on my Warrior alt, and it's very clunky/awkward and rarely (if ever) works the way you say it does. As opposed to Thief, who sees danger coming and can use Withdraw/Roll For Initiative to instantly get out away from danger. Those skills always work the way you want them to as well, as long as you're half decent.

[Featherman]

Symbiont, on 11 November 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

i'm sure warriors can't switch to another weapon set and use, i don't know Rush, Savage Leap or even Shield Bash. or combine some of those with Bull's Charge.

He'd still be susceptible to ranged attacks and the ever ubiquitous cripples, immobilizes, pulls, freezes etc present in the WvW environment. He basically has to book it at the sight of danger rather than hide and possibly counterattack like a good thief could. Leap and Rush keep you locked in place when immobilized too. It's a very limited playstyle and requires so much support.

Edited by Featherman, 11 November 2012 - 11:33 PM.

[Athos]

Isnt that a warrior video on a thief forum? Shouldn't that be on the warrior forum? All I see is a whole lot of people going WAH that class is OP, WAH no it's not that other one is OP, WAH no it's not! WAH WAH WAH! Look up balance in a dictionary, srsly guys! Just cos something is OP doesn't mean something else isn't also! We need them to try and achieve a degree of balance in the game where everything had counters and every class has viable unique roles to play. Where 2 different builds/classes go into a 1v1 or 2v2 And the outcome is not already decided

[Symbiont]

NuclearDonut, on 11 November 2012 - 11:27 PM, said:

That sounds good in theory, but try it before you say it. I've tried to escape with those kinds of mobility skills on my Warrior alt, and it's very clunky/awkward and rarely (if ever) works the way you say it does. As opposed to Thief, who sees danger coming and can use Withdraw/Roll For Initiative to instantly get out away from danger. Those skills always work the way you want them to as well, as long as you're half decent.

enough excuses. 1500/1200 range. if a warrior wants better escape tools cut that range to 900 and make those shots arch plus wear leather armor...

Edited by Symbiont, 11 November 2012 - 11:37 PM.

[NuclearDonut]

Symbiont, on 11 November 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

enough excuses. 1500/1200 range. if a warrior wants better escape tools cut that range to 900 and make those shots arch plus wear leather armor...

You just proved my point, thank you good sir.

[Sannhet]

Oryx, on 10 November 2012 - 12:43 AM, said:

Seriously?
The fact that he hit multiple people for 13-20k dmg while comfortably at 1200 range is totally okay with you?
nothing wrong with that?
i wonder if you'd see a 1.75sec channeling skill in the middle of those wvw zergs.

Kill Shot currently is bugged with piercing causing it to do 10% more damage the more people it passes through (i.e. 10% more for each person it hits).

As for the rest of it, I can hit 20k on targets with 90% of the burst damage abilities of any of my 80s in full zerker gear on other people in full zerker or low level. This is a simple highlight video of a guy wailing on lowbies/zerker geared individuals that you're all taking as some sort of evidence that everything you've ever argued about is by default now in your favor. Sorry, but that's just idiotic.

[Featherman]

Athos, on 11 November 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

Isnt that a warrior video on a thief forum? Shouldn't that be on the warrior forum? All I see is a whole lot of people going WAH that class is OP, WAH no it's not that other one is OP, WAH no it's not! WAH WAH WAH! Look up balance in a dictionary, srsly guys! Just cos something is OP doesn't mean something else isn't also! We need them to try and achieve a degree of balance in the game where everything had counters and every class has viable unique roles to play. Where 2 different builds/classes go into a 1v1 or 2v2 And the outcome is not already decided

I think the much controversy comes from Jon Peter's statement that the rifle was underwhelming (not underpowered) in sPvP a while the thieve's backstab build is overpowered. He's right about the rifle to a degree, since aside from high potential damage it is a very underwhelming weapon. Of course people on Guru are up in arms about a WvW video of a gimmick build before we even have any information on the tweaks the weapon is getting and the nerfs to BS thieves.

[Symbiont]

NuclearDonut, on 11 November 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

You just proved my point, thank you good sir.

well first you where like; warriors can't escape melee and now it's clunky, make up your mind

i would want to trade 1200 range for Roll For Initiative, yes plz.