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I'm just gonna leave this here. Share your thoughts.


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#31 NuclearDonut

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:55 PM

View PostSymbiont, on 11 November 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

well first you where like; warriors can't escape melee and now it's clunky, make up your mind :)

i would want to trade 1200 range for Roll For Initiative, yes plz.
To me those are the same thing. It's so clunky and unreliable that in most, if not all cases, that Warrior would be a sitting duck when someone actually notices him. And the way you proved my point was by showing that the Warrior would have to sacrifice his range to get escapes abilities. Having to make sacrifices (which this Warrior clearly has to do) is exactly what video game balance is.

#32 Symbiont

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:06 AM

View PostNuclearDonut, on 11 November 2012 - 11:55 PM, said:

To me those are the same thing. It's so clunky and unreliable that in most, if not all cases, that Warrior would be a sitting duck when someone actually notices him. And the way you proved my point was by showing that the Warrior would have to sacrifice his range to get escapes abilities. Having to make sacrifices (which this Warrior clearly has to do) is exactly what video game balance is.

what are you talking about? if you call those "sacrifices" then thieves has sacrificed some range and armor.
but warriors should perhaps not just sacrifice range but that blocking shield too for "better" escape abilities...

anyhow, i don't think a warrior should be a semi-thief. he should stay in a fight and keep the ones in a fight who tries to flee.

Edited by Symbiont, 12 November 2012 - 08:56 AM.


#33 NuclearDonut

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:18 AM

View PostSymbiont, on 12 November 2012 - 12:06 AM, said:

what are you talking about? if you call those "sacrifices" then thieves has sacrificed some range and armor.
but warriors should perhaps not just sacrifice range but that blocking shield too for "better" escape abilities...

anyhow, i don't think a warriors should be a semi-thief. she should stay in a fight and keep the ones in a fight who try to flee.
I'll give you half of an agreement on the range. Thieves have the smallest range in the game, but they also have the most ways to close a gap. Take that as you will. However, a good Thief can get in, do the same damage that Warrior was doing, and still survive if someone focuses them. A GC Thief is just as squishy as a GC Warrior, but Thieves can evade 90% of incoming damage. There's no sacrifice there.

#34 Shatteredz

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:47 AM

View PostNuclearDonut, on 12 November 2012 - 12:18 AM, said:

I'll give you half of an agreement on the range. Thieves have the smallest range in the game, but they also have the most ways to close a gap. Take that as you will. However, a good Thief can get in, do the same damage that Warrior was doing, and still survive if someone focuses them. A GC Thief is just as squishy as a GC Warrior, but Thieves can evade 90% of incoming damage. There's no sacrifice there.

A glasscannon thief is ALOT more squishy then a GC warrior. Just look at the base HP & base armor.
Also, thieves only have additional(1) dodges, its not like a thief can somehow dodge 90% of the damage and a warrior close to 0%.
Thieves ARE better in mobility, which makes them hard to kill if the thief knows when to get out. A few CC's and he is dead tough.

#35 Killyox

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:17 AM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 09 November 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

J.Sharp said the Rifle is underwhelming and shortbow/daggers OP.
I want to see his face when he sees this.

Not sure if serious....

#36 Shinimas

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:45 AM

View PostKillyox, on 12 November 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:

Not sure if serious....

Oh, they are.

Not only don't they realize that anything in 20k department is due to the piercing bug, but they think that 13k Kill Shots is more OP than 10k Backstabs.

#37 Killyox

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:50 AM

View PostShinimas, on 12 November 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

Oh, they are.

Not only don't they realize that anything in 20k department is due to the piercing bug, but they think that 13k Kill Shots is more OP than 10k Backstabs.

BAckstab like backstab. But entire Dagger lineup is worth more than that Killshot. 2 guys...spam dancing dagger on them and see how it bounces off each guy twice dealing ~7k dmg. And you can use it a lot. Then just some backstabs cnd and famous easy combo.

I don't think any person at least good at pvp would ever say rifle warr is op or that rifle warr is better than sb/d+d thief.

Edited by Killyox, 12 November 2012 - 10:51 AM.


#38 Psikerlord

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 11:12 PM

In my experience rifle is brilliant in wvw zerg/distraction, but underwhelming in PvP because you tend to see it coming and simply dodge or otherwise negate it.

#39 turbo234

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 11:18 PM

View PostShatteredz, on 12 November 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

A glasscannon thief is ALOT more squishy then a GC warrior. Just look at the base HP & base armor.
Also, thieves only have additional(1) dodges, its not like a thief can somehow dodge 90% of the damage and a warrior close to 0%.
Thieves ARE better in mobility, which makes them hard to kill if the thief knows when to get out. A few CC's and he is dead tough.

I think by evade he's talking stealth as well.

#40 NuclearDonut

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 12:54 AM

View PostShatteredz, on 12 November 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

A glasscannon thief is ALOT more squishy then a GC warrior. Just look at the base HP & base armor.
Also, thieves only have additional(1) dodges, its not like a thief can somehow dodge 90% of the damage and a warrior close to 0%.
Thieves ARE better in mobility, which makes them hard to kill if the thief knows when to get out. A few CC's and he is dead tough.
Numbers don't really matter when comparing GCs. They both deal incredible damage and die if they get sneezed on, Warriors just take 2 or 3 sneezes to die. And Thieves get Withdraw (15 sec CD), RFI, a billion Shadowsteps (which can be used while stunned/incapacitated), spammable movement skills, and perma vigor. That's not even taking stealth into consideration, which can get you out of any sticky situation with the press of a button.

#41 Invoky

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 01:18 AM

View PostNuclearDonut, on 13 November 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

Numbers don't really matter when comparing GCs. They both deal incredible damage and die if they get sneezed on, Warriors just take 2 or 3 sneezes to die. And Thieves get Withdraw (15 sec CD), RFI, a billion Shadowsteps (which can be used while stunned/incapacitated), spammable movement skills, and perma vigor. That's not even taking stealth into consideration, which can get you out of any sticky situation with the press of a button.

You obvious never played a GC thf, else u wouldnt list those skills. Do you really think a GC thf would have all those defensive cd?

Withdraw: Who use this heal other than range condition thf?
RFI: what does this even stand for?
A billion Shadowsteps: Yes, most of the good thf will run this "one minute" cooldown utility skill
Spammable movement skill: Do mean SB No.5? It cost initinal too you know
Permant Vigor: what? From steal+heal combo?

The only type of THF that use most of the skills u mentioned are range condition THF. They run with P/D + SB and they are definitly not GS type. My THF runs that build so I know. Yes I almost never die, but my damage is very weak compare to those GC THF.

#42 Garethh

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 01:42 AM

View PostInvoky, on 13 November 2012 - 01:18 AM, said:

You obvious never played a GC thf, else u wouldnt list those skills. Do you really think a GC thf would have all those defensive cd?

Withdraw: Who use this heal other than range condition thf?
RFI: what does this even stand for?
A billion Shadowsteps: Yes, most of the good thf will run this "one minute" cooldown utility skill
Spammable movement skill: Do mean SB No.5? It cost initinal too you know
Permant Vigor: what? From steal+heal combo?

The only type of THF that use most of the skills u mentioned are range condition THF. They run with P/D + SB and they are definitly not GS type. My THF runs that build so I know. Yes I almost never die, but my damage is very weak compare to those GC THF.
Sigh....
He said shadowsteps, movement skills and bonus dodging...
You just said dps thieves use shadowstep and spammable movement skills (#3 and #5) are on shortbow...
Every spike dps thief runs shadowstep, has steal and shortbow.
Vigor isn't that common on dps thieves though.
He could be mixing in sword/dagger thieves a bit.

But how does that lead to condi only theives???

Oh and dps thieves use withdraw, it is good.
It can't be interrupted which is a massive bump in TPvP if your fighting some guys with good reflexes.
Albeit it is more of an off BO skill (which is why its run allot less tragically) since its made for stopping or helping kiting (which when a game revolves around capping BOs really isn't all that large of a part of the game)

Oh and rifle warriors...
In TPvP... lolololololol.

Edited by Garethh, 13 November 2012 - 01:47 AM.


#43 Anzuri

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 01:58 AM

I see no prob with this. He is playing a sniper as it should be played. I hope to see way more snipers being utilised it makes it more fun and battle like. He is speced for full damage look how paper he is.

Seriously for all those that yell op for all this sort of things pls remember a few things:

1)this is a collection of his best hits from all his footage. How do you know he hasn't died more than this to get the footage or been driven away from the battle

2)look at his targets most of them are not proper lvl 80s and a lot of them have conditions too

3)for every burst attack in any class that ppl yell op they all have weaknesses and handicaps. Anet has thought it through pretty well. Sniper shot for one you have to build adrenaline and charge the attack, a projectile which can be blocked and dodged. Close the gap and cc and he is gone. Say thief bs thief had to get invis and get behind you, Mesmer portal, portal has a big cool down, limited range and creates a purple circle on the ground with a loud noise (granted you can't tell whether it is your own teams or enemies which sucks

Watch your surroundings. It's as simple as that. Be aware of what is going on. Worse comes to worse this is wvw if someone is sniping your team from far you can all still revive who falls

To the guy whose vid this is, good job mate was a good watch and I love it when someone adds a bit more flavour into the battle. Perhaps this is where the char's call in mortar strike is handy to flush out the sniper? :)

#44 Invoky

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 02:48 AM

View PostGarethh, on 13 November 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

Sigh....
He said shadowsteps, movement skills and bonus dodging...
You just said dps thieves use shadowstep and spammable movement skills (#3 and #5) are on shortbow...
Every spike dps thief runs shadowstep, has steal and shortbow.
Vigor isn't that common on dps thieves though.
He could be mixing in sword/dagger thieves a bit.

But how does that lead to condi only theives???

Oh and dps thieves use withdraw, it is good.
It can't be interrupted which is a massive bump in TPvP if your fighting some guys with good reflexes.
Albeit it is more of an off BO skill (which is why its run allot less tragically) since its made for stopping or helping kiting (which when a game revolves around capping BOs really isn't all that large of a part of the game)

Oh and rifle warriors...
In TPvP... lolololololol.

We are not talking about DPS thf; We are talking about "glass cannon" thf.
Do we have different understanding about "glass cannon"? Please name one glass cannon thf build have all the CD you listed.

#45 lmaonade

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:05 AM

This thread makes me want to play this type of warrior just to piss off more people

and gave me cancer

#46 rza

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 11:41 PM

23K on a shot! something wrong with you if this isn't nerfed.  Sorry don't I want to hear that "Oh he puts his whole dedication as a glass canon build" because the same argument can be said for a BS GC theif.

#47 Drtrider

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 11:50 PM

You know, because thieves are the only class that can hit hard or do a bunch of damage hurr hurr hurrrrr.

God. About time they got of thieve's back and started looking over all.

#48 lmaonade

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:03 AM

View Postrza, on 13 November 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

23K on a shot! something wrong with you if this isn't nerfed.  Sorry don't I want to hear that "Oh he puts his whole dedication as a glass canon build" because the same argument can be said for a BS GC theif.

for one thing it's been answered in the thread already

it's a bug, when it passes through people, everyone after the first person hit takes 10% more damage for every person the shot passes through, or something similar to that

#49 Millimidget

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:21 AM

View PostSymbiont, on 12 November 2012 - 12:06 AM, said:

he should stay in a fight and keep the ones in a fight who tries to flee.
They don't even do that half as well as a thief.

#50 Ss Heretic

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:10 AM

How about Bunker Guardians. They are running around everywere in sPvP tanking all damage and capping points...

#51 shiko

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:00 PM

This thread summed up:
Pro-thief / anti-warrior - GC warriors kill shots do too much damage. Thief Backstab doesn't do nearly as much. Cluster bomb arcs too much. Disagrees with J.Sharp's comment, some thinks the opposite.
Pro-warrior / anti-thief - KS is situational and requires the right environment. No mobility / escape if anything happens. Agrees with J.Sharp's comment.

[Things to note]
SPvP vs WvWvW - Is the shortbow good in both? Yes. Is the Rifle good in both? No.

How do they fare in the two environments:
-The shortbow does well in both, but isn't overly amazing at either besides for it's infiltrator arrow.
-The rifle on the other hand does exceptionally well in WvWvW when no one can pay attention to a single person out of a large group, but in SPvP/TPvP, the rifle it utterly weak/useless when you see it coming, and everyone isn't geared poorly/not scaled up from a lower level with bad gear.

Backstab/thief general vs rifle warrior:
-The thief has multiple escape mechanisms while the warrior does not, if he is traited a certain way.
-The warrior is naturally more tanky than a theif.
-The backstab combo has both a pre-burst and a post-burst (mug->CnD->backstab->HSS)
-Warrior does have a pre-burst(volley), that doesn't do as much damage or hits as fast as the mug+CnD, and has no follow up burst.
-Ranged vs Melee.

#52 Symbiont

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:30 PM

View Postshiko, on 14 November 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

This thread summed up:
Pro-thief / anti-warrior - GC warriors kill shots do too much damage. Thief Backstab doesn't do nearly as much. Cluster bomb arcs too much. Disagrees with J.Sharp's comment, some thinks the opposite.
Pro-warrior / anti-thief - KS is situational and requires the right environment. No mobility / escape if anything happens. Agrees with J.Sharp's comment.

[Things to note]
SPvP vs WvWvW - Is the shortbow good in both? Yes. Is the Rifle good in both? No.

How do they fare in the two environments:
-The shortbow does well in both, but isn't overly amazing at either besides for it's infiltrator arrow.
-The rifle on the other hand does exceptionally well in WvWvW when no one can pay attention to a single person out of a large group, but in SPvP/TPvP, the rifle it utterly weak/useless when you see it coming, and everyone isn't geared poorly/not scaled up from a lower level with bad gear.

Backstab/thief general vs rifle warrior:
-The thief has multiple escape mechanisms while the warrior does not, if he is traited a certain way.
-The warrior is naturally more tanky than a theif.
-The backstab combo has both a pre-burst and a post-burst (mug->CnD->backstab->HSS)
-Warrior does have a pre-burst(volley), that doesn't do as much damage or hits as fast as the mug+CnD, and has no follow up burst.
-Ranged vs Melee.

don't kid yourself. all this denying, rofl. warrior has a very great burst that is on par with thieves. may we see 50-blades warriors upcoming patch.

#53 MisterSin

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:49 AM

If anyone know this exact build with gear and whatnot, Id really really appreciate it if you pm it to me
Always wanted a rifleman warrior

#54 shiko

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:07 PM

View PostSymbiont, on 14 November 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

don't kid yourself. all this denying, rofl. warrior has a very great burst that is on par with thieves. may we see 50-blades warriors upcoming patch.

Oh I'm sorry, was this post/thread about 100 blades? Because I don't see anything at all about 100 blades. If you actually read my post, it talks about rifle warrior vs thief(both SB and backstab)

#55 Symbiont

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 04:26 PM

View Postshiko, on 15 November 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

Oh I'm sorry, was this post/thread about 100 blades? Because I don't see anything at all about 100 blades. If you actually read my post, it talks about rifle warrior vs thief(both SB and backstab)

you're sum-up is inaccurate, especial trying to make it seem a dev to agree with you. J.Sharp's talked about burst damage, but has not official stated about any particular skill. and in case of burst damage, 100b is one of them.

Edited by Symbiont, 15 November 2012 - 04:28 PM.


#56 Red_Falcon

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:04 PM

Posted Image

B-But that video is WvW, rifle is useless in s-sPvP.

Edited by Red_Falcon, 15 November 2012 - 06:04 PM.


#57 MrForz

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:12 PM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 15 November 2012 - 06:04 PM, said:

B-But that video is WvW, rifle is useless in s-sPvP.
I don't understand why you're screaming for a nerf on the very class you're supposed to enjoy and main. We, people going against your way of thinking, very little problems against rifle Warriors. If it's a way to reflect that you're superstrong or whatever, it's plain stupid.

#58 Alaroxr

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:17 PM

It's videos like these that make me sad to be a Guardian.

#59 Red_Falcon

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:36 PM

View PostMrForz, on 15 November 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

I don't understand why you're screaming for a nerf on the very class you're supposed to enjoy and main. We, people going against your way of thinking, very little problems against rifle Warriors. If it's a way to reflect that you're superstrong or whatever, it's plain stupid.

I'm just showing the world the stupidity of J.Sharp who thinks 15k killshots from 1500 range are "underwhelming" and 8k, positional, conditional, melee ranged backstabs are OP.

Edited by Red_Falcon, 15 November 2012 - 06:36 PM.


#60 shiko

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:01 PM

View PostSymbiont, on 15 November 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

you're sum-up is inaccurate, especial trying to make it seem a dev to agree with you. J.Sharp's talked about burst damage, but has not official stated about any particular skill. and in case of burst damage, 100b is one of them.

Once again please read the comment before you post, as I have stated this is what everyone in the thread has been talking about, I did not give any input and I'm not trying to make a dev agree with me. These are the things people are arguing about in this thread.

Did you take the "SPvP vs WvWvW - Is the shortbow good in both? Yes. Is the Rifle good in both? No." part as a comment or as part of the arguement? Because that's what people are talking about besides backstab, and the viability in PvP.




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