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Thief nerfs, predict them.


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#31 Invoky

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 02:06 AM

The only way for CB to burst is if a thf stand still and spam 2 to AOE around himself. But no thf is going to stop in middle of the fight to spam that in pvp. Thats like asking everyone to switch focus to you and cc/inturrupt. So spaming CB only works for farming or PVE.

If you try to hit anything with CB that is over 10m, it does decent dmg but the speed too slow to consider as burst.

I fail to see how CB is op that it needs a nerf.

#32 Drexar

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 03:32 AM

You can still move while firing cluster bombs at your feet you know..





Oh, i mean, you cant, and cluster bomb is a bad skill, should be left alone or possibly buffed!

#33 Asomal

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 03:36 AM

View PostDrexar, on 11 November 2012 - 03:32 AM, said:

You can still move while firing cluster bombs at your feet you know..





Oh, i mean, you cant, and cluster bomb is a bad skill, should be left alone or possibly buffed!

Precisely.I don't understand how can anyone that's paying atention to the fight can get hitted by it. It travels so slow that you don't even need to dodge.And don't worry about mid air detonation, it's only effective when it's almost hitting the ground.

#34 Drexar

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 03:44 AM

Hmm, i think my sarcastic post got mistaken for a serious one :(

What im trying to say is that CB at range isnt horribly strong no, but if you use it as a melee weapon it can do some serious damage.. It needs some patience though or you will detonate every bomb, which still does serious damage, but i prefer the big booms..

Basically, CB at 500+ range = horrible, unless targets keyboard and mouse stops working. But at close range its great, even too strong perhaps, imo.

#35 Featherman

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 03:51 AM

Nerfs aren't solely about bringing down pretty numbers. Let's not forget that thieves can shadowstep away from any engagement using Infiltrator's Arrow and also travel super fast with it. That's definitely getting some kind of a nerf.

Edited by Featherman, 11 November 2012 - 03:54 AM.


#36 Leonadid

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 04:07 AM

View PostFeatherman, on 11 November 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

Nerfs aren't solely about bringing down pretty numbers. Let's not forget that thieves can shadowstep away from any engagement using Infiltrator's Arrow and also travel super fast with it. That's definitely getting some kind of a nerf.

Because thieves wasn't made to roam fast compared to other classes, thats why!

#37 Roland Der Meister

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 04:28 AM

TBH I dont see why any one is crying about the short bow skills for thief ther balanced in my opinion and the pistol skills  and will you people stop crying about killshot cuase ther other ways to own you with the rifle warrior how? well one word  volly it is the next best thing to killshot even is KS gets a nerf to dmg volly will still take you past half health then people will follow up with kill shot.

#38 IDarko

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 05:14 AM

- Cluster Bomb damage nerf. That skill is retardedly overpowered. Use a fire sigil and make it rain from above!
- Steal aftercast. This will give the enemy time to run away before you use Backstab. But it might result in even less Basilisk Venom use tho. Because the stun is useless if there is a Steal aftercast.

As for buffs, i really hope they improve some of our other weaponsets..

#39 Wraith of Orr

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 05:37 AM

ITT: A bunch of cheeseballs who never play any class other than stealther/burst classes screaming "ahhhhh gaaaaahhhhhhhddddd wat am i gonna doooooooooo without my 3 shot mug c&D backstab combo?!???!!!!1111111"

Reasonable people can plainly see that the current state of thieves is absurd. Reasonable people can also see that weapon sets and utility skills, namely pistol and traps are sorely lacking in capability. Whether or not ArenaNet has the cluefulness to create as well as destroy remains to be seen. I often wonder why ArenaNet went to so much trouble to balance the rest of the game and then left Thief and Mesmer cheese along with the idiotic bunker meta to train wreck everything.

#40 Tumaras

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 05:40 AM

So basically every thief attack is OP it sounds like from the whiners.  Backstab, c+d, pistol whip, shortbow, all OP, really?  So thieves should be squishier than every class and do less damage with every attack we have?  Poison already does worthless damage and every class has ways to easily remove conditions.  

Warlock fear is OP...oops wrong game...same qq'ers.

#41 Featherman

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 05:50 AM

View PostWraith of Orr, on 11 November 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

ITT: A bunch of cheeseballs who never play any class other than stealther/burst classes screaming "ahhhhh gaaaaahhhhhhhddddd wat am i gonna doooooooooo without my 3 shot mug c&D backstab combo?!???!!!!1111111"

Reasonable people can plainly see that the current state of thieves is absurd. Reasonable people can also see that weapon sets and utility skills, namely pistol and traps are sorely lacking in capability. Whether or not ArenaNet has the cluefulness to create as well as destroy remains to be seen. I often wonder why ArenaNet went to so much trouble to balance the rest of the game and then left Thief and Mesmer cheese along with the idiotic bunker meta to train wreck everything.
My guess is that they hadn't intended for these roles to exists to the extent that they do. They were probably right to wait for a metagame to better develop  especially for this type of combat system. Hopefully we'll see some new specs that can reasonably break bunkers.

Edited by Featherman, 11 November 2012 - 05:50 AM.


#42 Rrafaz

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:09 AM

- Backstab damage up front reduced, made up for by perhaps adding a condition like bleeding or secondary effect, like removing boons

- Thief base health increased (please)

- Stealth bug fixed (Woo!)

- Steal has a (very short) cast time (I'd be devastated, but apprehensive)

- Mug scales less with higher power, or caps off at a certain point, and no longer procs venoms

- Thief mobility stays the same as it currently is

- Cluster bomb has it's damage reduced or has a minimum range added (Still unsure why, it's easy to see a thief spamming CB)

- Other specs like P/P get some love, maybe the up front damage of the AA is increased

- Other gimmicky specs (like 100b and shatter mesmers) also see a drop in damage effectiveness, made up for by something added to those respective abilities (imagine moving while casting 100b, cool rite)

I'm being very pessimistic, but it's A-net, you know.

Edited by Rrafaz, 11 November 2012 - 09:11 AM.


#43 Desert Rose

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:33 AM

- Offensive teleports like Steal, Infiltratior's Signet and Judge's Intervention interrupt currently performed attack.
- Steal/Mug no longer trigger Venom-type skills.
- Shortbow gets tuned down.
- Maybe minor to moderate damage nerfs to Mug and C&D and minor damage nerfs to Backstab.

Edited by Desert Rose, 11 November 2012 - 09:33 AM.


#44 Lalnuir

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:42 AM

View PostKorra, on 11 November 2012 - 01:03 AM, said:

Cluster bomb is fine, it crits for 8k to underleveld peeps in WvW (not much), it has a tremendous arch easy to avoid. Cluster bomb no crit hits barely for 2k against heavy armors.

I don't think you are doing it right. CB at range is easier to dodge than eruption.
Steal in for fury from thrill, now you are 70%+ crit rate on most builds and then spam exploded cluster bombs at your feet while running around.

If CB had a cool down, it's damage would be fine but the fact that it is spammable makes it stupid good.




View PostInvoky, on 11 November 2012 - 02:06 AM, said:

The only way for CB to burst is if a thf stand still and spam 2 to AOE around himself. But no thf is going to stop in middle of the fight to spam that in pvp. Thats like asking everyone to switch focus to you and cc/inturrupt. So spaming CB only works for farming or PVE.

If you try to hit anything with CB that is over 10m, it does decent dmg but the speed too slow to consider as burst.

I fail to see how CB is op that it needs a nerf.

You can get off 2 cb at pb range before you even render. Using stealth and your tele skills it's easy to drop 4+ people in WvW before they even target you. If you do get targeted you can just shadow step/shadow return out of harms way.

View PostAsomal, on 11 November 2012 - 03:36 AM, said:

Precisely.I don't understand how can anyone that's paying atention to the fight can get hitted by it. It travels so slow that you don't even need to dodge.And don't worry about mid air detonation, it's only effective when it's almost hitting the ground.

Stealth, teleports, rendering.
CB is only OP in WvW not spvp.

View PostTumaras, on 11 November 2012 - 05:40 AM, said:

So basically every thief attack is OP it sounds like from the whiners.  Backstab, c+d, pistol whip, shortbow, all OP, really?  So thieves should be squishier than every class and do less damage with every attack we have?  Poison already does worthless damage and every class has ways to easily remove conditions.  

I main a thief. We are currently so OP it's stupid.
A small damage nerf to mug cnd and backstab will not make the build unplayable. You'll still kill squishies with it, hell I kill level 80 glass thieves and eles with just the cnd and mug atm. Our auto attack does very high damage and we still have hide in the shadows after pulling off the CnD/steal/backstab combo.

Pistol whip is still perfectly playable after the 15% damage nerf.

#45 Korra

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:41 AM

View PostLalnuir, on 11 November 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

I don't think you are doing it right. CB at range is easier to dodge than eruption.
Steal in for fury from thrill, now you are 70%+ crit rate on most builds and then spam exploded cluster bombs at your feet while running around.


I do that on battles i know we are going to win and we just rush over them, if you know what i mean, or for example after breaking a door in a siege but in normal fights (ruins, bridge, etc) doing that is pretty much suicidal.

#46 Lalnuir

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 01:35 PM

View PostKorra, on 11 November 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

I do that on battles i know we are going to win and we just rush over them, if you know what i mean, or for example after breaking a door in a siege but in normal fights (ruins, bridge, etc) doing that is pretty much suicidal.

I do it all the time, even when outnumbered. Rarely suicidal provided you pick the right people to aoe and time your teles and stealth skills for when people notice you. Even if you only down but don't kill 4 people that is 4 people + however many stop to ress them that you just temporarily took out of a fight.

#47 blindude

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 01:47 PM

Omg just burn them to the ground.Leave nothing ..lol :)
Yesterday i was on a tourney with my roamer ele build which is fairly glassy and suddenly on map chat theres the enemys team thief that says "(my char name) any death wishes??" ..
Then i lose control of my char and start typing something smart and BAM
A stealth thief appears from nowhere and takes me down in 2 sec..So humilating .I wish i could do the same.
Lol i tried dodging and the rest but i was on chat mode ..
Point is..NERF THEIR *ING BURST..(or give me equal)

#48 Asomal

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 03:45 PM

View Postblindude, on 11 November 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

Omg just burn them to the ground.Leave nothing ..lol :)
Yesterday i was on a tourney with my roamer ele build which is fairly glassy and suddenly on map chat theres the enemys team thief that says "(my char name) any death wishes??" ..
Then i lose control of my char and start typing something smart and BAM
A stealth thief appears from nowhere and takes me down in 2 sec..So humilating .I wish i could do the same.
Lol i tried dodging and the rest but i was on chat mode ..
Point is..NERF THEIR *ING BURST..(or give me equal)

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?!
ಠ_ಠ

#49 Shishusha

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 05:15 PM

The thief is an assassin, he has to have big damage e low survivability. But not ONESHOT (or 2 shots) ability or combo. I think the perfection will be wherever others can save theirself with a dodge (not stunbreak), In that case if you don't pay attention or don't dodge it is right that you die.
I think it will be right to nerf damage coming from stealth, and pump damage when in combat.
Cb nerf is a great stupidity if done. You can see it, if you take it, don't blame, pay attention

my 2 cents

#50 Al Shamari

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 05:33 PM

View Postblindude, on 11 November 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

Omg just burn them to the ground.Leave nothing ..lol :)
Yesterday i was on a tourney with my roamer ele build which is fairly glassy and suddenly on map chat theres the enemys team thief that says "(my char name) any death wishes??" ..
Then i lose control of my char and start typing something smart and BAM
A stealth thief appears from nowhere and takes me down in 2 sec..So humilating .I wish i could do the same.
Lol i tried dodging and the rest but i was on chat mode ..
Point is..NERF THEIR *ING BURST..(or give me equal)
Point is, don't take time away from the screen in sPvP to type witty responses...

#51 AndrewSX

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 05:43 PM

Essentially, they'll probably just do number tweaks.

Problem is doing those right, cause that was what made thief OP - UP - fine - OP in BWE 1 - 2 - 3 - release.

Let's see what they'll have for thieves.

Mechanics wise there could be a couple of changes, but i would not bet they're going to do them (on this patch).

#52 Reisa

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 06:14 PM

The problem with the thief right now is that it's a DPS class, period.  There's really nothing else that it can do.

So in Anet's 'new' trinity of DPS, tankyness, and support, the thief doesn't have another leg to stand on.  The closest thing thief has to support is spamming blind, and it can do that with a full dps spec.

So if thief receives any buffs, I'll hope they'll look into giving them a better support role, especially if they're going to keep nerfing their damage because people keep whining about it (whether justified or not).  Granted, this would require a bit of an overhaul with traits and skills, and since Anet can't get around to fixing half the bugs classes currently suffer--especially the generally weaker classes like necromancer or ele--I'm not going to hold my breath.

Anyway, if Anet wants to nerf the spike and front-end damage of thieves, I surely hope they'll give us some back end damage to compensate.  Perhaps adding in a condition component to some aspects to make those sorts of builds more appealing--like having mug put on stacks of poison in exchange for reducing the immediate damage of steal, or knocking off 25% of the damage from backstab and putting on bleed stacks to compensate.

#53 Kerishan

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:42 AM

Really you want destroy the thief class?

Yesterday a ranger manage to resist all my first combo simply with Lightning Relexes, if before complain about thiev you lear to play your own class we can be all happy.

#54 JorrdKarrd

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 01:17 PM

Thieves absolutely need a nerf, and so does warrior for that matter.

#55 Mursie

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 03:33 PM

in my opinion the following has to change:  You can't give a class insane damage capability, the heaviest armor in the game for damage mitigation, unreal access to vitality that exceeds 20K in most cases, and then top it off with offhand support weapon sets that can further increase survivability.

That is the main problem with thief right now....  oh wait.

the way I see it:  if you are going to have a burst class in a game..the following criteria must hold.
They must have low health such that if their burst doesn't succeed they are immediately dead
They must have almost no damage mitigation
Their burst must have a cooldown so that they can't just spam the burst rotation
Finally, they must be given exit strategies for those good players who will never die to burst cheese and will immediately negate the entire usefullness of the class... with said exit strategies the class can abandon the scene immediately realizing their target wasn't a total moron and they will have to look for greener pastures where roaming stupid cattle wander.  THe great players will not fear this class..only be slightly annoyed with it..like a human is annoyed by mosquitos.

Until the thief becomes this.... oh wait.

Edited by Mursie, 12 November 2012 - 03:29 PM.


#56 Alzun

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:18 PM

There was a Backstab Thief in hotjoin PvP once that complained that when he killed people they weren't dead because of the Downed State.  He also said Elementalists were OP.

Mind blown.

#57 Mursie

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:28 PM

should probably nerf that thief.  the fact that he got a player to downstate clearly demonstrates he is OP

#58 Shatteredz

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 05:05 PM

View PostAlzun, on 12 November 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

There was a Backstab Thief in hotjoin PvP once that complained that when he killed people they weren't dead because of the Downed State.  He also said Elementalists were OP.

Mind blown.

Actually downed stated is being complained about by other people, and I(and others) dont think it is fun being downed/killing downed people at all.

Also, ele bunker builds are concidered one of the strongest bunkers, and the current meta is about them. You could say that a ele bunker is OP, yeah.

#59 Enforcer

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 05:25 PM

I hope nothing will affect backstab damage. The real thing need to be nerf is cnd+steal combo. The fact that it take less than 1 sec to cast both skill, instantly teleport you to your target while damaging for 6-10k(traited) and giving invisibility at the same time is the one that need to be nerf. Shit happens too fast it is just impossible to react when you are engaging in battle.

Nerft cnd+steal, then backstab will be like killshot. It have huge damage, but you can see it coming. If you still getting killed by it, its your fault.

#60 Red_Falcon

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 08:55 PM

Dear Sherlock Homles out there, help me find the source of these complaints.

Here is the evidence we have:
"Omg Thieves OP they kill me in 3 hits!"
"Omg Warriors OP they kill me with HB!"
"Omg Rangers faceroll one button!"
"Omg Necro too tanky too good bunkers!"
"Omg Guardians unkillable!"
"Omg Engineer grenade too bursty!"
"Omg Mesmer burst/clones/moa!"

There are 8 people in this room and 7 of them have been complained about, surely not by each other... only one left here, the fireball-spamming Easymentalist.

Guess I know my main target for WvW in the next years.
I'm going to still kill you in 2s you bet. Steal>CnD>Backstab>Hasted seekers>F.

Edited by Red_Falcon, 12 November 2012 - 08:56 PM.





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