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Rumour : lot of changes to engineer (november patch)


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#1 pmnx

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 01:47 PM

Jon Peters recently had a discussion with players in Lion's Arch and revealed some information about strong changes for professions in GW2.
The source here in french : http://www.mastodont...les-professions

Engineer profession would get 30 modifications!

This information is to be confirmed and could be a fake but if it's true it's a great news for engineer profession.

#2 doooknoookem

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 02:27 PM

30 changes is a lot, but there could be a handful of nerfs in there that will hurt the more powerful specs (grenadier). Hopefully no nerfs, but with 30 changes there are bound to be a couple.

#3 AndrewSX

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 02:33 PM

yeah - even if they fix EVERYTHING that needs to be adressed asap, 30 points are still to much only to see fixes/buffs.

Still hope in elite, turrets and few skills tweaks w/o see destroyed too much the builds viable atm...

#4 FoxBat

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:20 PM

Meh I'd root for a grenadier nerf. Engie was built to swap kits/weapons on the fly, having one set so good it's generally dumb to do so is not welcome. Perma 25 vulnerability from a single character is just plain problematic in general when it comes to condition stacking in random groups.

I guess they may do something to tweak bunkering in sPvP too, if guardian gets hit engies would quickly take up that role otherwise.

#5 Princess Fatora

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 05:42 PM

Quote

Meh I'd root for a grenadier nerf.

Yes, how dare engineers be as good as other professions, damnit. That's clearly unintended.

Quote

Perma 25 vulnerability from a single character is just plain problematic

About as problematic as partywide aegis, actually.

We can be thankful that you don't do balancing, you'd do a spectacularly bad job at it, as your posting proves.


Really, you people and your "nerf grenades" are about as stupid as the idiots that begged for nerfs to pistols in beta. Look where pistols are now.

Oh.

#6 justOneWord

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 06:37 PM

ArenaNet has nerfed great abilities before. It was viable to stack bleeding with the Pistol. It was comparable to other classes and certainly not overpowered. Yet they reduced the bleed so much, the autoattack has become useless.

I too fear they will do something like that again.

#7 Al Shamari

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:50 PM

View PostPrincess Fatora, on 10 November 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Yes, how dare engineers be as good as other professions, damnit. That's clearly unintended.



About as problematic as partywide aegis, actually.

We can be thankful that you don't do balancing, you'd do a spectacularly bad job at it, as your posting proves.


Really, you people and your "nerf grenades" are about as stupid as the idiots that begged for nerfs to pistols in beta. Look where pistols are now.

Oh.
Let's chill out with the insults shall we, I'd rather another thread not get locked for flaming by another Moderator who handles things differently than I do.

#8 matsif

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:00 PM

View PostPrincess Fatora, on 10 November 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Yes, how dare engineers be as good as other professions, damnit. That's clearly unintended.



About as problematic as partywide aegis, actually.

We can be thankful that you don't do balancing, you'd do a spectacularly bad job at it, as your posting proves.


Really, you people and your "nerf grenades" are about as stupid as the idiots that begged for nerfs to pistols in beta. Look where pistols are now.

Oh.

insults aside, I agree entirely with you.  a 30 bullet change is nothing short of a complete overhaul of the profession, which will probably nerf the hell out of grenades, and change enough that there is going to be a lot more problems than there currently are.

not gonna hold my breath that these changes do anything good for the profession.

#9 MrForz

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:07 PM

PvP related dyes, 30 tweaks to the Engineer, an eventual Mesmer portal nerf.

I really hope it will only be about bug fixes because as far as I've played, both PvP and PvE we have nothing to complain or to be complained about. Not even the grenades.

Oh, and concerning the pistols, yeah. It's... actually fine enough if you couple the bleeds with a ton of Burning damage, but it sure isn't attractive at all when you get to witness the massive condition damage Thieves, Elementalists, and Necromancers can pull without the need to stack condition duration or going full crit to exploit Sharpshooter and Sigil of Earth.

#10 Matsy

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:19 PM

Guess i'll hold of leveling my engineer anymore till I see the changes, don't want to waste time getting to 80 and grenades getting nerfed into the ground like pistol's did.

#11 Draycon

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:26 AM

Don't care if grenades get nerfed, I'm more interested to see if they change anything else,.... like the tool kit, or even just how Engineers hold a rifle.

#12 Warmaster Bacon

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 07:07 AM

Please leave grenade kit, and grenadier alone :(
What I would like to see:
maybe increase the bleeding duration on elixir gun?
A sniper rifle elite skill with a 1500+range?
Not much else I would change, if they do change grenade kit, maybe turn it into a grenade launcher gun that does the same damage output, or maybe have it so skill 1 isn't a ground target? I would like to see an animation change on the rifle, instead of a hipshot, a proper shot aimed from the shoulder.

#13 pmnx

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:59 AM

May'be we'll get :

- auto-attack on kits,
- weapon stats when using a kit,
- portable turrets,
- mortar and elixir revamped.

But I'm expecting more important changes for the tool belt and kits. Weapon kits should be real weapons not using utility slots.

#14 dawdler

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 05:26 PM

View Postpmnx, on 11 November 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

- mortar and elixir revamped.
If the shitty Engineer mortar is revamped to work like every other damn mortar and siege equipment in the game, I'll dust off my Engineer and start playing it in WvW again. Then the Engineer would have a niche in WvW - artillery support and pounding keep walls. It would step up the pace of keep attacks and introduce a method of always having siege equipment available on a cooldown, rather than blueprint.

#15 Real

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 06:07 PM

I'm wary. They wouldn't mention multiple engineer changes specifically if any one of them were bad. That'd be just playing with your audience's hopes.
On the other hand, I can't help but feel they'll touch grenades or discharge builds for their effectiveness. If so, we'll go back to utter mediocrity in everything we do.

#16 Ellipsis

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:12 PM

I thought the engineer was in a good place as a class and only needed a few tweaks here and there. If they’re proposing that many changes, than I think the class might get a huge over-hall it doesn’t need.

#17 Rozbuska

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 08:10 AM

With our luck it will be 30 nerfs..

#18 SlappedYak

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 08:18 AM

I am 90% certain they're going to nerf grenadier >.> *sigh*.... I recently "abandoned" my ranger main after the SB nerf (well I got severely bored of the PS ;)) and have since made a norn engineer that I am massively in love with <3 I use multiple kits, nades and elixers being a wierd mix of passive support (i.e. conditions) and heals and a fair bit of cc with rifle, and I love it! Oh god they're totally going to poop on my parade xD

Tbh...I saw the engineer as being one of the best classes in game :e does that mean it's broken? The only thing I could think of is a buff to toolbelt and elixer gun, and stop turrets being used by people to "camp" event spawns?

is there a pvp scene I'm missing out on? (I'm a pure pve-er and they seem balanced to me...) Genuinely don't know wat they would want to change...especially "30 bullet points" and what only 16 on ranger?? ranger needs a HUGE overhall....ffs....

#19 Runkleford

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:18 AM

Wow people get very defensive and upset when they think nerfs are incoming. I'm sure a good chunk of those 30 bullet points are fixes since there ARE a lot of little broken things about the Engineer. Nothing profession breaking but still annoying like Flamethrower 2 skill sometimes getting obstructed for no reason.

And I expect a nerf for the grenade kit. When a good chunk of Engineers are only spamming grenades, something is wrong. And please, the Engineer will survive a grenade nerf. It's plenty viable and competitive with other professions even if they nerf grenades to oblivion. No need to get pissy or panicky.

I play PVP and PVE without the grenade kit most of the time and I'm doing more than just fine and so will you.

#20 Arxae

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:28 AM

View Postpmnx, on 11 November 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

- auto-attack on kits,
- portable turrets,

My kits have autoattacks, all of them (except grenades ofc). Might be that you have to turn them on once, but i have a autoattack.

And no to portable turrets. Make it a trait or so. I like the stationary ones more and i wouldn't like seeing them basically be the same as necro minions, only with machines.

#21 Serris

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:36 AM

View PostPrincess Fatora, on 10 November 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Yes, how dare engineers be as good as other professions, damnit. That's clearly unintended.



About as problematic as partywide aegis, actually.

We can be thankful that you don't do balancing, you'd do a spectacularly bad job at it, as your posting proves.


Really, you people and your "nerf grenades" are about as stupid as the idiots that begged for nerfs to pistols in beta. Look where pistols are now.

Oh.

that's some serious personal attacking you do there. take a chill pill.

i think everyone would like to see some changes to the engineer and i'm sure they're coming at some point in the future. but i find it a bit odd that john peters would discuss this ingame, and that this would be reported on a french website. so i'm kind of sceptic.

#22 LawlAmgad

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:08 PM

More viable builds please, my fingers hurt from spamming 1,2,3,4,5,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,3,1,4,5,1,1,1,1,1 all day.

#23 matsif

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:13 PM

View PostArxae, on 12 November 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

And no to portable turrets. Make it a trait or so. I like the stationary ones more and i wouldn't like seeing them basically be the same as necro minions, only with machines.

by portable, I would think that it means that I could go pick up my turrets with use key and be able to replace them after no/shortened cooldown instead of having to waste them by destroying them whenever I have to move to a new location.  really the only thing that's keeping me off of turrets right now.

#24 FoxBat

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:34 PM

View PostRunkleford, on 12 November 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

And I expect a nerf for the grenade kit. When a good chunk of Engineers are only spamming grenades, something is wrong. And please, the Engineer will survive a grenade nerf. It's plenty viable and competitive with other professions even if they nerf grenades to oblivion. No need to get pissy or panicky.

I think an argument can be made that without grenade, engineer won't be able to keep up with other professions's most overpowered options. But I really don't think 100 blades etc. should be a baseline for anything, and hopefully those will get looked at in time as well. One or two things clearly towering over the rest of your class options isn't a good thing for any class.

But honestly I'm more concerned with the playstyle being so boring and its strength obscuring other cool options rather than keeping up with the joneses. This is kind of the same problem with pistol. Yes it was a strong weapon when #1 was good, but the #1 was so good you rarely wanted to press any other button given how the rest of the weapon is designed. The entire weapon needs to be decent to promote interesting play rather than leaning on one powerful autoattack and some glue shots to win.

We have yet to see much of any real balance adjustments so for now I'll give Anet the benefit that they will get around to fine-tuning things after nerfing the strongest no-skill options. For example maybe this patch will bring in sigils with kits, even with a grenade nerf kits would end up with a net gain that way, and grenades could still well be a strong option. in GW1 they did a lot more frequent balance adjustments with a much larger number of skills, given the smaller and simpler nature of GW2 skills/traits they could do so much more with the same kind of effort.

View Postmatsif, on 12 November 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

by portable, I would think that it means that I could go pick up my turrets with use key and be able to replace them after no/shortened cooldown instead of having to waste them by destroying them whenever I have to move to a new location.  really the only thing that's keeping me off of turrets right now.

You can pick up turrets now with a 25% reduction in cooldown. Granted that often doesn't feel like much. Think it used to be 50% in one of the early BWEs, so Anet has played with more dramatic values before.

#25 Runkleford

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 06:38 PM

View PostSerris, on 12 November 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

but i find it a bit odd that john peters would discuss this ingame, and that this would be reported on a french website. so i'm kind of sceptic.

Anet devs are a strange bunch because they like casually hanging out in the game to talk to players. I've personally seen them in the mists just chatting to players about the game. So there's precedence that such things were announced casually ingame.

#26 CepaCepa

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 07:32 PM

View PostRunkleford, on 12 November 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

Wow people get very defensive and upset when they think nerfs are incoming. I'm sure a good chunk of those 30 bullet points are fixes since there ARE a lot of little broken things about the Engineer. Nothing profession breaking but still annoying like Flamethrower 2 skill sometimes getting obstructed for no reason.

And I expect a nerf for the grenade kit. When a good chunk of Engineers are only spamming grenades, something is wrong. And please, the Engineer will survive a grenade nerf. It's plenty viable and competitive with other professions even if they nerf grenades to oblivion. No need to get pissy or panicky.

I play PVP and PVE without the grenade kit most of the time and I'm doing more than just fine and so will you.

They can nerf the grenade kit, but they better buff the damage on some other kits, else engineers are lacking in the damage aspect of the game. Not by a ton, but it's big enough that it is visible. No one is arguing that engineers are not viable, else we wouldn't play as one, the topic is if a DAMAGE engineer is comparable to other professions' damage.

With 30 30 0 0 10, all the traits added, and using 3 and 5 on CD, rifle damage is slightly above ranger shortbow #1 hit in Berserkers. Without pet, without utility. Flamethrower is slightly lower damage than rifle when both are in full max damage rotation and traited accordingly (30 30 0 0 10, so flamethrower misses out the 15% damage, but the power should somewhat make up for it). Double pistol in full rampager and the bomb kit in full berserker are the only weapon set that can compare to the decent damage specs of other professions. Grenade is the the only thing that puts engineer's damage potential to the top tier, which is still behind: mesmer shatter/phantasm builds, thief dagger/dagger or sword/pistol builds, and guardian full berserker GS build (which is, in my opinion a gimmick build due to being terrible in so many other ways).

If they nerf grenade damage, I'd say some of the other kits/weapons can use a buff. Well even if they don't nerf grenade I'd still think some of the other kits can use a buff lol. It's not THAT big of a deal, but it is slightly worrisome because the main reason that everyone is using grenade (which is not the most intuitive damage "weapon" since you'd have to learn to ground target cast like a pro in all situations, and there's no auto cast) is because otherwise we can't compete with our fellow damage dealers. So taking grenade away without at least somewhat addressing the original problem to begin with, is a possibility and is of concern.

Edited by CepaCepa, 12 November 2012 - 07:35 PM.


#27 Runkleford

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 07:40 PM

View PostCepaCepa, on 12 November 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

They can nerf the grenade kit, but they better buff the damage on some other kits, else engineers are lacking in the damage aspect of the game. Not by a ton, but it's big enough that it is visible. No one is arguing that engineers are not viable, else we wouldn't play as one, the topic is if a DAMAGE engineer is comparable to other professions' damage.

The problem is that a lot of you are so focused on damage that you're ignoring the amount of CC that the profession can do. I don't think the profession should ever do as much damage as other professions and still retain the amount of CC that it has. The kits really don't need more damage they have plenty of utility to hinder enemies for you to do the damage.

But I'd rather not go into this further because I've had this discussion a million times.

#28 justOneWord

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 08:05 PM

Quote

that you're ignoring the amount of CC that the profession can do

I'm sure a lot of people would trade their CC for more damage. It's just not that useful in dungeons.

#29 Sicsoo

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 08:37 PM

on the official site there is this pic now, with 2 engineers using both the elixir guns. who knows if it is just a coincidence or a real input for an "upgraded" elixir gun (only a healing support kit at the moment for me).

Posted Image

#30 Runkleford

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 02:12 AM

View PostjustOneWord, on 12 November 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

I'm sure a lot of people would trade their CC for more damage. It's just not that useful in dungeons.

Not useful in dungeons? Are we playing the same game? Also, if you don't want CC, well then you might want to play a different profession. That's like saying you don't want a pet but want to play a Ranger. That's just how the professions are designed.




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