66 replies to this topic

[CepaCepa]

Killyox, on 15 November 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

Are you aware of how childish this sounds? For me i am not a kid anymore, not since a long time. And i don't act like one thus no "wat want want asap!!!!" moments. If you can't wait 5 minutes for something this is telling of you.

Neither am I for a long time, and I cherish any of the "want want want asap" moments that I still get in my life, it doesn't happen as much as I hope it does. You know that rush when you really want to get something done and feels extremely satisfied when you do? That's one of the reasons why I play games, because I don't get that any more this many years into life. At this stage you learn tolerance and compassion, yes, if I've got a group already and it wipes continuously I'd suck it up and I'd play nice and I'd be patient, I'd be encouraging them and putting in the hours. Doesn't mean the next time I'm going to make an effort to contact these same people myself to run the dungeon again (unless they're interesting in other ways, for example very nice people), especially if I plan to run this dungeon every day.

And what kind of a "come back" is "this sounds childish" anyways? If you've indeed got as much experience in life as you claim, I really doubt that's all you can comment on.

Besides, why do I need to justify it? Think of it as whatever as you want. Like I said, if you can't relate, well that's too bad, I guess it isn't an issue for you and you should no longer bother to argue with me since we don't even share this common experience and hence really can't have a meaningful conversation. This is not an "argument" per se, I really do feel that if we're feeling completely different things and what I felt has never occurred to you, then there is no use for us to argue. For all who knows what I'm talking about though, it is an issue. And if SOME of the community is concerned about an issue, it is only right for them to speak up, and in no circumstances should you "shut them up" or imply to do so simply because "you don't feel it yourself", no matter how "childish" you think the issue really is. If you're indeed as experienced in life as you claim, you should know the political implication, and this is what I've being arguing for all these times anyways.

Edited by CepaCepa, 15 November 2012 - 05:26 PM.

[CepaCepa]

Princess Fatora, on 15 November 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

If you need to be better than other professions as far as damage goes, then sadly, I don't think that you really understand what balance means.

Fine does cut it, because that should be the end goal of balance in a multiplayer game.

Are you trolling? I see you often on here so I believe that is not the case but... Are you trolling?

You do realize that you're the one who sparked the whole argument right? Your very first post, albeit a little aggressive, does air the concern that many of us have: engineer damage. And it is to protect the interest of those who have this concern that we proceeded to argue, trying to say that "damage is a legitimate concern on any profession".

Also, keep in mind we're discussing a FUTURE patch. Yes grenade damage is at a good place now, no one is arguing about that. A lot of other things are also at a good place, but since there will be a patch making 30 changes to the profession, we're simply saying that we HOPE the patch will not tone down the damage of the grenades without compensating it with improvements on some of the other kits.

[Carighan]

justOneWord, on 13 November 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

Yes, guess we aren't playing the same game. Bosses are unaffected by certain CC, only slightly affected by others (blind) and only hit by every fifth other CC. There are certain trashmobs that pose a treat and could use some CC (Arah), but they are easier to bring down if you just reflect their projectiles (which I wouldn't call CC).

Ok, so you're playing with one set of skills? Because I keep switching around, boss-utility against bosses, CC against trash. Notice that neither are damage skills, because they're frankly all around inferior. The amount of damage you gain compared to the size of mob HP pools is irrelevant, compared to preventing them from attacking or moving entirely.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Feedback makes entire groups implode for me as a Mesmer, NPCs can easily take 50%+ of their own HP off in the duration of a Feedback, some with burst attacks just kill themselves entirely. Null Field? Mantras for healing? Mimic reflects the remaining attacks, extremely powerful against bosses again.

It's the same on every class: There's great damage dealing characters in dungeons. Only, they're still far from the "cap" in how useful they can be to a group. A truly stellar group rolls through trash packs without them ever fighting back, and chains utilities on bosses to completely cripple their abilities.
(Sure, exceptions apply, but then again you swap skills per-target anyhow)

[justOneWord]

Quote

Ok, so you're playing with one set of skills?

No of course not. But the discussion was about CC, damage, and how the absense of one should lead to the increase of the other.

More often than not it's not really possible to swap everything. If you play with the rifle you can't really replace the Net Shot with something else. I guess that's the downside of not having any weapon swap. The warriors hammer has clearly a CC feeling to it, while the axe for example does not at all (it only has a cripple).

[Kuruptz2]

Disgustiing Horrible dissapointing crappy fixes for engineer
wait i am insulting all those words
think of Something 1000x worse thats what i think of this ’’Patch’’

if i ever get my hands on a nuclear rocket i will aim it on Anet Headquarter and i will fix its tooltip before i shoot it

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The block on toolkit and the range of pull was the ONLY fixes that was fixing

[justOneWord]

Some other classes builds were nerfed though, so were stronger in comparison.

[Phineas Poe]

Wow. Everyone here needs to chill.

Let logic, not insults, guide your argument. You'll be more convincing that way.

I believe that the Engineer's damage is perfectly fine, both pre- and post-patch. I don't know why people get off on saying that this class needs help in that regard when other class sub-forums left and right are demanding that our Grenade Kit gets nerfed in WvW. And guess what? It was.

And for all the conversations about losing damage for CC, I can use a damage-dealing kit like the Grenade Kit and then swap to a control kit like the Flamethrower or Elixir Gun. Does Engineer have the best crowd-control abilities? No. But while classes have one CC ability to slot as a utility skill, we have an entire kit to use. Objectively speaking, we arguably have the most CC options of any class in the game solely by the amount of skills we command by all of our kits. Only the Elementalist compares. And I think a lot of people here are neglecting remembering this, because stuff like this quoted below keeps coming up:

justOneWord, on 15 November 2012 - 01:11 AM, said:

If the gear shield is there you would think the toolkit is used for tanky builds. But that skill is actually worse than the shield ones.

So what would you recommend instead? Burn Magnetic and Static Shield and stand there like a donk for thirty seconds waiting for the cooldowns to finish? You write that like we have to make a choice between one or the other. You forget the aspect of this class that makes it appealing to begin with: its diversity.

Use the shield and then swap to the Tool Kit. And then ... swap back.

Edited by Phineas_Poe, 22 November 2012 - 06:14 PM.