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Scepter vs Dagger


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#1 jktstance

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:27 PM

It seems that a lot of people prefer D/D eles over S/D.  I'm not really seeing the appeal of main hand dagger.  Am I missing something?  Scepter 2 and 3 for fire are really strong (and blast finishers, not to mention that Phoenix removes conditions and grants vigor).  Earth attunement is also pretty good, with a strong autoattack, extra defense (with multiple projectile finishers), and dust devil.  I'll admit that the water attunement for Scepter is lackluster and the arc lightning bug is extremely irritating.

#2 Milennin

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:55 PM

I don't see what's appealing about the Scepter.
Fire 2 is really slow, and needs an opponent to be stationary to be a reliable hit. Fire 3 has the annoying ground target, but admittedly it looks cool.
Water 2 is another slow attack. Water 3 is another annoying ground targeting skill, but I suppose it has the excuse that it can be used as a heal on allies as well...
Air 1 is annoying because it keeps going through environment, and just kinda looks strange. Air 2, 3 are instant casts, nothing exciting or flashy looking either.
Earth is ok I guess...

Compared to dagger...
Fire 1, 2 and 3 are all AoE damage on demand, no ground targeting, and one charge attack + fire field.
Water 2 is ok damage, and heals yourself + allies, also no ground targeting. Water 3 is a useful fast-cast AoE chill.
Air 1 has a cool AoE lightning whip.
Earth 2 is a nice AoE spell. Earth 3 sucks, though...xD

I don't like scepter, because if I want to stay on a distance I prefer the staff. If I want to be close I like daggers. And what I like about daggers is that it doesn't have ground targeting. But to be honest, I find it strange why ask people why they use dagger over scepter, instead of asking why use staff over scepter. Dagger is a completely different playstyle.

Edited by Milennin, 10 November 2012 - 10:00 PM.


#3 jktstance

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:49 PM

View PostMilennin, on 10 November 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

I don't like scepter, because if I want to stay on a distance I prefer the staff. If I want to be close I like daggers. And what I like about daggers is that it doesn't have ground targeting. But to be honest, I find it strange why ask people why they use dagger over scepter, instead of asking why use staff over scepter. Dagger is a completely different playstyle.

Well, this is PvE, so fire #2 missing isn't usually a problem.  But the real reason is that I play S/D in melee range most of the time, so for me, S/D is in direct competition with D/D, whereas Staff is for pure range.

#4 Shadowrose

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:05 AM

View PostMilennin, on 10 November 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

I don't see what's appealing about the Scepter.
Fire 2 is really slow, and needs an opponent to be stationary to be a reliable hit.
Hai, this is the pve section.

#5 dss_live

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:10 AM

View PostShadowrose, on 11 November 2012 - 12:05 AM, said:

Hai, this is the pve section.

npc enemies move too, you know

#6 Valkaire

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:17 AM

S/D is a lot more condition damage (and larger aoes) than D/D imo. You also have a farther range which is decent.

#7 Shadowrose

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:30 AM

View Postdss_live, on 11 November 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:

npc enemies move too, you know
If you can't land dragon's tooth against npcs then you're beyond hopeless.

#8 dss_live

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:39 AM

View PostShadowrose, on 11 November 2012 - 12:30 AM, said:

If you can't land dragon's tooth against npcs then you're beyond hopeless.

but they still move, don't they? just saying

#9 bdatty

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:57 AM

Scepter is good. It's a mid-range weapon afterall. A lot of burst but require some time to use it again.

Dagger has a lot of fast burst and utilize's the Dagger Off-hand's CC abilities (earth#4, Air#5) because it's close-range.
Air's auto-attack provide strong burst compare to other auto-attacks as well.

#10 Shadowrose

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 01:18 AM

View Postdss_live, on 11 November 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

but they still move, don't they? just saying
Obviously they do but that's out of the question :P

you can even make them chase you where DT is going to land. Or you can open with it (sacrificing might stacks).

...or just faceroll fire423arcanewave-earth4

#11 Featherman

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 05:07 AM

D/D is full of PBAoEs and cone attacks so it's ideal for taking down multiple mobs up close. It also deals more damage than scepter in these scenarios. Personally I prefer it since gives me the feeling of playing an action game .

#12 jktstance

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 05:26 AM

As I said, I tend to play scepter in melee range, to take advantage of offhand dagger.  But I don't fret if fire #2 does miss, because the area might is applied when the spell is cast, not where (and when) the tooth lands (is that a bug?).

I suppose I do see how mainhand dagger attunements are more useful.  Scepter has a really strong fire attunement and a decent earth one (the air attunement is OK, but the air #1 bug is extremely annoying).  I should probably mess around with D/D more.

#13 Nyth

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:05 PM

S/D and D/D are really similar. There are some minor differences that makes you prefer one over another, but in the grand scheme of things they are pretty comparable (which I think with as little weapons as we have, is a bad thing frankly).
The S/D combo does have the range advantage, but that is largely nullified by the fact that a lot of the dagger skills really need you to be in melee range to make them work well.

If I would have to classify them respectively. I would say the D/D set is more "balls to the wall"-offensive. You have more abilities to get in range (Burning Speed / Magnetic Grasp / RtL) and stay in range (Ring of Earth / Frozen Burst), it has a higher pace and can put out more pressure.

S/D on the other hand is a really well rounded setup. You have more (static) burst through fire; even though D/D has more pressure and is more offensive the burst of RoF+DT+Phoenix is IMO superior (harder to connect though in mobile fights than D/Ds burst).
You have better heals in water, people underestimate the healing power of trident, it really adds up and you can place it on your teammates. And slightly better defense with the 2 blinds and rock barrier.
Which overall makes it a much better all round weapon. You can step out of melee and continue to do damage (albeit less damage); decent aoe and single target damage; solid defensive and healing skills.

Even with that in mind though, a lot of people (including me; although I appreciate both) enjoy the playstyle of the D/D set. It's extremely dynamic and fun.

Edited by Nyth, 11 November 2012 - 12:05 PM.


#14 dss_live

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 02:44 PM

View PostShadowrose, on 11 November 2012 - 01:18 AM, said:

Obviously they do but that's out of the question :P

you can even make them chase you where DT is going to land. Or you can open with it (sacrificing might stacks).

...or just faceroll fire423arcanewave-earth4

actually the point WAS that it is possible to miss opponents coze tehy move, it was never a point of how good the player is

#15 FrancisCrawford

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 02:47 PM

If you're playing in a group, PvE opponents moving around can be a problem.

But if you're solo, your skills should almost always land.

#16 The Great Al

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 05:30 PM

I can also echo that I found myself spending most of my S/D time in melee range anyway, so I have since moved to D/D. Either set is viable but I prefer direct damage over condition. I do miss the 2 blinds of the scepter, though.

I recently found myself stuck in a champion boss fight with D/D, and that wasn't fun.




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