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#1 Westwater

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:08 PM

So the other day I bought one of the pieces of the karma Orr armor, but I accidently bought the wrong piece.  So since the pieces I bought were totally useless, I sent in a request to Anet to see if they would refund my karma for me, but I was informed by a GM that there is litterally no way for them to reimburse items or karma at this time, though the GM's are working on it but there's no ETA on when.  This seems like a strange thing to overlook, considering every game I've ever played had the ability to do this from launch.  So now I'm out 42K karma, I have a pair of boots that are totally useless to me, and apparently Anet can't fix it.  I even suggested they could just remove the boots from my inventory and they could give me like, 10 jugs of liquid karma or however much it takes to get close to 42K karma.  I even said it would be fine if I had less than my original ammount, so long as I can get SOMETHING back, but they apparently can't do that either.

Anyone else have a problem like this yet?  I can only hope that more awareness about this kind of thing will encourage the GM's to make a way to refund stuff for us.

#2 Specialz

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:13 PM

They have made a point to not refund anything unless, it is a compromise. to some degree I will agree, except that sometimes when you click (not double click) on an item it sometimes gets bought or sold.

But that sucks for you. Ya, but they have made a point to not refund anything unless it is a compromise.

#3 Graystone

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:15 PM

It's unfortunate that you purchased the wrong item. I've made similar mistakes, the only thing you can do is take a deep breath and move on.

#4 Elfen Lied

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:19 PM

It's silly that a game this big doesn't have the simplest option a GM can have. There's nothing simpler to do than adding an item to your inventory.

#5 Nabuko Darayon

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:19 PM

Hmmm returning karma is probably not in their mind... I'm not even sure if they return items you bought accidentally from gems

#6 Healix

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:22 PM

Unlike the average MMO, they don't have dev commands to just spawn an item and mail it to you. They have a serpate dev client and dev server for that, which is cut off from the normal servers.

When they do restore an account, it's by rolling back the entire account on the data side of things.

When they said they're working on it, they mean a sell back feature. Some hints given by ArenaNet said that most likely, this feature would only be available as long as you left the sell window open, meaning you have to realize the error as soon as you made it.

#7 Lordkrall

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:22 PM

View PostElfen Lied, on 10 November 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

It's retarded that a game this big doesn't have the simplest option a GM can have. There's nothing simpler to do than adding an item to your inventory.

Don't use it != don't have it.

They most likely do have the ability, they simply just won't use it. Because if they do it for one they have to do it for everyone, and that would take pointless time and man power.

#8 Critus

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:22 PM

If youve bought the same armor class item ( like if youre a guardian and bought heavy boots but bought the wrong stats) you can just transmute it to a piece of exotic gear that has the stats u want.
Otherwise completing 1 monthly will give you all your karma back :P

#9 UssjTrunks

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:27 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 10 November 2012 - 10:22 PM, said:

Don't use it != don't have it.

They most likely do have the ability, they simply just won't use it. Because if they do it for one they have to do it for everyone, and that would take pointless time and man power.

Why have it if they aren't going to use it?

Clearly they don't have the ability.

View PostHealix, on 10 November 2012 - 10:22 PM, said:

Unlike the average MMO, they don't have dev commands to just spawn an item and mail it to you. They have a serpate dev client and dev server for that, which is cut off from the normal servers.

When they do restore an account, it's by rolling back the entire account on the data side of things.

When they said they're working on it, they mean a sell back feature. Some hints given by ArenaNet said that most likely, this feature would only be available as long as you left the sell window open, meaning you have to realize the error as soon as you made it.

Armours should be like dyes. You should have to double-click them to apply them to your character. If you don't apply them to your character, then you should have the option to sell them back to the vendor.

Simple solution.

Edited by UssjTrunks, 10 November 2012 - 10:28 PM.


#10 Lordkrall

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:32 PM

View PostUssjTrunks, on 10 November 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

Why have it if they aren't going to use it?

Clearly they don't have the ability.

Because they can use it if someone loses an item based on a bug or something like that? Or if the account was hacked (even if a roll-back is most likely used in that case).

They don't want to use it when players make mistakes. Because if they do they will have to spend all their time refunding items.

#11 MFGrady

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:32 PM

They should implement something like WoW has for Badge/Point purchases:

You have 2 hours from the time you purchased a Karma/Token item to sell the item back to a vendor for a full refund. Transmuting/mailing the item would immediately remove the window.

#12 Flavvor

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:37 PM

I bet next time the OP will make sure he picks the right item for now on. It's not ANets fault you didn't pick the right piece.

#13 UssjTrunks

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:41 PM

View PostFlavvor, on 10 November 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

I bet next time the OP will make sure he picks the right item for now on. It's not ANets fault you didn't pick the right piece.

People need to stop blindly defending Anet.

How hard would it be to have a simple refund option in the game?

#14 Lordkrall

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:44 PM

View PostUssjTrunks, on 10 November 2012 - 10:41 PM, said:

People need to stop blindly defending Anet.

How hard would it be to have a simple refund option in the game?

How hard would it be to pay attention to what you buy in the game?

#15 UssjTrunks

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:50 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 10 November 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

How hard would it be to pay attention to what you buy in the game?

Why do stores offer refunds in real life?

People make mistakes.

Sure, this is a game, but some people spend hundreds of hours farming to be able to buy these items. There should be a safety net for these purchases. It's part of good game design. You never want to blame the customer/user for something.

Edited by UssjTrunks, 10 November 2012 - 10:51 PM.


#16 Elfen Lied

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:51 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 10 November 2012 - 10:22 PM, said:

Don't use it != don't have it.

They most likely do have the ability, they simply just won't use it. Because if they do it for one they have to do it for everyone, and that would take pointless time and man power.

but I was informed by a GM that there is litterally no way for them to reimburse items or karma at this time


In my dictionary it means they don't have it!



#17 Lordkrall

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:55 PM

View PostUssjTrunks, on 10 November 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

Why do stores offer refunds in real life?

People make mistakes.

Sure, this is a game, but some people spend hundreds of hours farming to be able to buy these items. There should be a safety net for these purchases. It's part of good game design.

Most stores don't allow refunds because you "bought the wrong item".

Indeed, people makes mistakes and they should have to handle the consequences for those mistakes.

View PostElfen Lied, on 10 November 2012 - 10:51 PM, said:

but I was informed by a GM that there is litterally no way for them to reimburse items or karma at this time


In my dictionary it means they don't have it!


Of course, because if they said it was possible they would have a million request for reimbursing items within a few days.

#18 Elfen Lied

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:04 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 10 November 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

Most stores don't allow refunds because you "bought the wrong item".

Indeed, people makes mistakes and they should have to handle the consequences for those mistakes.



Of course, because if they said it was possible they would have a million request for reimbursing items within a few days.

It's an option you should have. What if ANet's DB got hacked and someone got into his account stealing all his gold and items. Wouldn't it be so simple for them to use a set of commands to get everything back? Stop being a freaking fanboy.
Also if the did have a command and returned the OP his item, he wouldn't go around the forums saying hey I got my item back and this thread would never exist.

It's a must for a game of this size!

#19 Lordkrall

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:08 PM

View PostElfen Lied, on 10 November 2012 - 11:04 PM, said:

It's an option you should have. What if ANet's DB got hacked and someone got into his account stealing all his gold and items. Wouldn't it be so simple for them to use a set of commands to get everything back? Stop being a freaking fanboy.
Also if the did have a command and returned the OP his item, he wouldn't go around the forums saying hey I got my item back and this thread would never exist.

It's a must for a game of this size!

Exactly, and the DO have the ability to do just that. IF an account is hacked and items lost. Or if an item is lost because of a bug. That does not mean they should run around and refund items to every single player that simply can't pay attention to what they are doing.


My bank has the ability to give me unlimited amount of money. That does not mean they will give me unlimited amount of money.

#20 Westwater

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:13 PM

View PostFlavvor, on 10 November 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

I bet next time the OP will make sure he picks the right item for now on. It's not ANets fault you didn't pick the right piece.

Well it was a little bit...Y'see I was at the NPC at the Temple of Lyssa, and if you've ever been there you know that there's always a constant hoard of mobs standing right NEXT TO the NPC's there, and they don't interact with eachother.  If you want to access the NPC you have to kill all the mobs and THEN have some other people hold the respawns off while you look at the shop, because the zombies respawn incredibly fast there.  I was on my own, so I tried to just run through and I wanted a piece with a specific stat spread (pow/vit/toughness) and I saw one with those stats and just clicked it because I was already downed and didn't want the entire trip to be a waste.  It wasn't until I respawned that I realized that I already had the boots in those stats and so I had no use for them.  I wouldn't feel cheated if there was at least some guards on that point to stop the basic mobs from sitting litterally right on top of the NPC while the temple is uncontested no less.  Because I was pressured by the outrageous amount of mobs on top of the NPC and the fact that killing them is totally pointless, I probably wouldn't of made the mistake otherwise.

Edited by Westwater, 10 November 2012 - 11:14 PM.


#21 Omedon

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:21 PM

This is 100% NOT a "functional unable" and 100% definitely a "policy unable" situation.  As many posters have said: if they set the precedent, the landslide begins.  The simpler solution is to keep the same "personal empowerment" slant present in the entire game, and apply it to the power to mess up as well.

Buyer beware, they're not going to babysit you.

Edited by Omedon, 10 November 2012 - 11:23 PM.

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#22 Eon Lilu

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:25 PM

They have the ability to do what you asked of them there just choosing not to, and choosing to tell you they can't when they can....they just won't.

They do this with all replacement requests it seems there standing procedure to replace nothing for any reason and lie to everyone saying they dont have the ability to do so when they do.

After 2 months of arguing with them in support tickets about an item I lost due to in game bugs, I finally got them to send me a mail in game with replacement items....kinda proves they were full of s**t the whole time.

So dont feel bad, even if it wasnt an accidental click on your behalf and it was Anet's fault you lost the item....they still would tell you the same auto responce and they still would not replace item hoping you give up trying...

I just won the patience and bulls**t game with there support teams I guess.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 10 November 2012 - 11:26 PM.


#23 Westwater

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:25 PM

View PostOmedon, on 10 November 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

This is 100% NOT a "functional unable" and 100% definitely a "policy unable" situation.  As many posters have said: if they set the precedent, the landslide begins.  The simpler solution is to keep the same "personal empowerment" slant present in the entire game, and apply it to the power to mess up as well.

Buyer beware, they're not going to babysit you.

Quote

I'm afraid that we are not currently able to refund, remove, exchange, or compensate you for purchases made using this system currently regardless of the reason. I understand this may be frustrating, but we simply do not have the capabilities in place to complete such a transaction at this time.

Quote

Our developers are working on getting tools that will allow for this kind of thing, but we don't have a specific ETA on when that will be available.

(Only posting snipets of my reply email so I don't break any rules)

If what you say is true, and this is just a policy thing, then this GM flat out lied to the face of a customer, because they directly said that it's a functional issue.  I'd say that's kind of bad business practise in either case...

#24 Lordkrall

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:28 PM

And if they said that they can but they won't do you really think it would be any better?

#25 Omedon

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:30 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 10 November 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

And if they said that they can but they won't do you really think it would be any better?


Haha I was JUST going to say that!
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#26 Biz

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:32 PM

View PostElfen Lied, on 10 November 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

It's retarded that a game this big doesn't have the simplest option a GM can have. There's nothing simpler to do than adding an item to your inventory.
Anet doesn't hold your hand and are very clear about it. If support were never meant to be refunding items then it is only natural that they are not given tools to do so, tools them May very well have but choose, correctly so, to not use them. This, first of all, lets GMs do important things like catching account thives, bugs and bots etc, secondly it keeps number of GMs down.

#27 Gremlin

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:46 PM

There are a number of options that could be implemented that would be automatic so needing no decisions by a human.

Obvious one is to have a filter that by default only shows items that are compatible with the current character.
At least then if you buy the wrong item it will be one you can use.

Don't have the item bound so you can pass it to an alt or sell it to another player on the trading post.

Allow sell back as long as the item has not been bound or otherwise used after that you could maybe allow a sell back at a much reduced price.

I am surprised some kind of system is not in place already, not especially because of player error but for game errors that are nothing to do with the players actions.

#28 Xunlai Agent

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:59 PM

Happened to me too, 42K karma gone forever - not a happy day: http://www.guildwars...r/#entry2043558

#29 Redhawk2007

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:22 AM

It's a failure of customer service to not refund items that are accidentally purchased due to user error or are lost due to no error on the user's part. People make mistakes, it's why pencils have erasers and all that. In my case I failed to get the reward for completing Malchor's leap due to bugs. Considering that it had taken weeks to complete this zone in the first place due to a single skill point being bugged, it was a double slap in the face that they refused to give me any kind of credit for this, citing the same reasons that they gave the op. In less time than it took them to haggle with me over this problem, they could have sent me replacement items of comparable value, and not driven me to the point I will no longer purchase anything from this company.

It is also easy to make errors due to the fact you are often under attack when you buy from karma vendors. The Temple of Balthazaar has been down for weeks on my server. I had enough karma for 5 items when I logged in last week and saw that it was up. I could have run to the bank to get the karma jugs needed for the sixth item, but chose to waypoint there immediately and rush to buy the 5 items I had karma for. This was a wise move, as the temple came under attack just as I bought my 5th item. Had I stopped to grab my jugs, I would have gotten nothing. Needless to say, forcing people to rush like this can easily result in errors, though in my case I fortunately got the right items.

#30 jirayasan

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:44 AM

When i was previewing durman priory armorur it accidently bught the heavy chest and ArenaNet said they couldn't do anything...and i couldn't even sell it back to vendor. Lost 1g and 80s.

Edited by jirayasan, 11 November 2012 - 12:45 AM.





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