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Condition Necros do Condition Mesmer ever beat you?

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#1 Touche


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Posted 11 November 2012 - 06:07 PM

TItle says it all. Do you ever find condition mesmers challenging? I'm tired of playing shatter/phantasm builds and I'm trying to figure out how to do this as you guys faceroll me every time in my conditions spec.
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#2 Hot_Tomali


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Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:59 PM

I play both a condition mesmer and a condition necro, so I can easily envision this problem. The big issue I foresee is that the mesmer is likely specced to remove conditions on shatter. He certainly also has the clone on dodge trait and can maintain an endless supply of condition removals. Unless you can manage to alternate your cond. removal heal and your staff condition removal to a tee, youre going to get worked.

Assuming you're using something like a staff and scepter/dagger, I would stick to the staff mainly and whittle him down while kiting. Otherwise, youll need to find a way to overload him with conditions quickly, like corrupt boon and then fear him 2x so he cant use arcane thievery to send em back to you. Make sure you dodge when you see the clones charge for shatter (you can dodge way early) so he cant remove the conditions on his shatter.

Or roll mesmer for easy wins.
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#3 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:59 AM

I don't get on which environment are you asking. spvp? Wvw?
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#4 Quillixx


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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:47 PM

Condition necro will win majority of fights against a condition mesmer.

Hot Tomali mentioned a condition mesmer would have condition removal on shatter, I however strongly disagree with this. 30 points in the Inspiration line on a condition build is very unlikely. Inspiration is a shatter/phantasm line that has little synergy with most condition builds. Yes, there are some condition based abilities like +50 malice while wielding a scepter, but all in all, the line doesn't mesh well. Expect 20 points in Dueling for the clone on dodge (easily the most common point investment in most every mesmer build), and 20-30 points in Illusions because it's the Malice line. The remaining 20-30 points will be used to customize the build into what the mesmer wants. It would be highly unlikely to see all of those points going into Inspiration, especially when Chaos and Domination lines are so much more common choices for condition build point investments. A mesmer will more likely use Mantra of Resolve for condition removal, before putting 30 points into Inspiration on a condition build.

Arcane Thievery is likely in an sPvP build, but not likely in a WvW build. Again, Mantra of Resolve is a much better condition removal utility skill than Arcane Thievery. The second downside with Arcane Thievery is that what conditions you send to a necro, will most likely be sent right back. Staff with Scepter/Dagger is the most common necro condition weapon set, and Staff 4, Dagger 4, and Plague Signet are all the most common loadout seen in necro condition builds.

Necros have high base health, while mesmers are medium base health. Given that toughness doesn't reduce condition damage, this will come into play when they 2 classes are fighting each other. Necro condition builds will go 1 of 2 ways, toughness or Death Shroud. With the recent fix to DS life pool, expect to see more DS build variants, which will be even more problematic for the mesmer to overcome. Between the 2 professions and factoring in their specific mechanics, the necro has more tools to avoid/mitigate damage than the mesmer has.

If you took the most commonly seen necro condition build and mesmer condition build and the 2 were to fight each other with equally skilled players, I'd expect the necro to win most all fights, at around 80/20 win rate. The necros attrition based playstyle and ability to extend fights and control conditions will come into play in favor of the necro. If you want to go designer builds of the most ANT-Necro vs the most ANTI-Mesmer build, then you can start running into some odd outcomes, which is why my mindset with the above comments adheres to what is 'most likely to be seen' when out in sPvP or WvW.

Edited by Quillixx, 16 November 2012 - 04:52 PM.

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