139 replies to this topic

[RandolfRa]

The only real fix to the lack of interest in WvW is following: better rewards. I'm sure nobody finds fighting countless groups of undead very interesting, but they do it anyway because it gives them lots of shiny loot. From WvW you barely ever get any rares, and the badges can't be used for anything interesting at all. I really don't understand why it has to be like this. Why should farming npcs have better rewards than fighting in WvW?

Edited by RandolfRa, 12 November 2012 - 12:17 PM.

[Wordsworth]

I think the main reasons for me is it's too "casual" if that's the right word. The game isn't designed to be competitive in any sense of the word except for that it's PvP. There's no uniform gear, levels, consumables, number of players and so on and so forth. It makes the experience wildly imbalanced in the broader sense of the word, along with the actual class imbalances. The former is a deliberate choice that ANet made, basically saying, "yeah this is a pick-up and bonus mode," and that to me doesn't inspire any desire to play unless the mood strikes me, but I certainly won't play it for the sake of playing it.

[Tacticalgrace]

WvW can be a blast but there is no escaping its futility. Everything you capture, build and defend is washed away by the next zerg like building sand castles too close to the waves.

[Soylent]

1) I'm not 80 on any of my characters so I'm at a disadvantage compared to a lv80.
2) The repair costs
3) Nothing to look forward to reward wise.

Edited by Soylent, 12 November 2012 - 01:07 PM.

[Killyox]

Vayra86, on 12 November 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

It is not the same. The game is not built around these carrots you mention - they are loose, optional and do nothing to alter the play experience. Ticking 100 boxes is not a carrot, it is a cost-effective way of creating replay value. Neither is that in any way something you can call content - world completion is not content, achievements are not content. They are not rewards either, because you don't get a single thing from it that you can use to further your character or play experience.

Consider how incredibly lacking a game is where the players have to conjure up their own rewarding experiences, instead of having devs who actually create mechanics that feel rewarding to the majority of the playerbase.

But you gave example of high scores. How is that not loose? It also isn't content. Give it time. I still remember what WoW was for a long time after release. And don't start argument that games should fight vs WoW after all those years because developing the game and then adding so many features in short time is impossible. It all needs time and it's better they released it like this instead of waiting couple years more.

Also plenty of people cried "JUST RELEASE IT ALREADY THE WAY IT IS!!!!!!!"

[Lemar]

I do WvWvW only ocasionally. I like it, but the queues and lag is not something I look forward to every night. My current motivation is to get 100% exploration, badges and montly. If not for that I probably wouldn't go to WvWvW at all. One requires a computer I can't afford atm.

[ShezuTsukai]

I rarely WvW because the transfer rate was off setting the tiers. Nothing more annoying than getting face rolled by a server that was tier 4 yesterday and t2 today because of transfers.  Once people are locked into their server short of an act of Balthazar, then you will see more server pride.

Secondly are the time zone conflicts. Work all day against servers like SoS to get ahead only to have the map completely theirs by morning. Very disheartening.

The final reason is new content is coming out in PvE often, Halloween, Lost Shores, Wintersday, etc. are going to draw down your WvW population.

[P4ndora]

I'd play WvW if I wouldn't have <10 fps there (in zergs). I don't understand why, but my system can handle much better PvE (Orr) zergs than WvW ones, assuming the size of the zerg is similar.

Also as many people said the reward is awful. Not only you get less loot, but you also die more than in normal PvE, so it's not worth the time. I'm not saying WvW rewards should be better than PvE rewards (because then everyone would go WvW and there will be long queues) but at least we need more things to buy with BoH (seriously, why Commander title costs 100g instead of BoH or WvW achievements? -.-). Right now I only need 500 BoH for legendary weapon.

[Wotah]

Soylent, on 12 November 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

1) I'm not 80 on any of my characters so I'm at a disadvantage compared to a lv80.

No. Absolutely not. I go in with level 20's and absolutely wreck people.  In fact I rolled around for a couple of hours on a level 8 solo, not zerg surfing, yesterday and did fine.  

I do get my butt handed to me at times, but that is going to happen regardless.

Edited by Wotah, 12 November 2012 - 02:38 PM.

[Kryptik]

my computer cant handle the zerg, planned on buying a new one for gw2 and future games, but i just lost hope in the game.

[Earendil]

I think the problem is that some people think that WvW (and GW2) should keep them busy for years. It was not designed like that. If you played 200 hours of WvW and enjoyed about 50-60% of them - you got what you were supposed to get.

Same with the PvE content - I played about 600 hours - enjoyed at least 70% of them. If I get bored, find another game and never log back - well, that's ok. I'll keep a good memory of the game and WvW.

Longevity obtained through grind is false longevity. If they gave you one fame point for every 100 badges and then at 1000 points you have a phoenix emote ... you will be doing the same repetitive stuff, over and over, to get that emote. This is the kind of game you want? There are better things to do in life.

Played 450 hours of D3 - enjoyed about 70-80 of them. The rest was mindless grind for a hypothetical reward. I really will not buy any expansion.

So - WvW was fun for you, for a  while, when you were learning and discovering new stuff, when you were coordinating with your guilds etc. After a while, the fun ends, naturally. Do you want the grind to replace it ?

When GvG arrives, it will be different - there you have the real rewards for skill. WvW is casual PvP and should be treated as it is. Remember grinding emotes with Iway groups in HoH ?

[Midnight_Tea]

Because I take armor damage from dying to other players. The repair costs far outweigh the reward. PvE attrition mechanics should not be a part of PvP.

[Sundreamer]

wvw sucks imo - i like spvp better - the only reason i do wvw is for the monthly...and i wish they'd remove that...or atleast gave you the choice between either getting 50 wvw kills or get something like 50 events instead of MAKING you go to wvw if you want to complete your monthly

[Gremlin]

I didn't do much pvp in gw1 because I didn't like the way it was set up, and I guess I loved PVE too much.

GW2 WVW interested me a lot but its early days and I have plenty of pve content to keep me interested.
several months into the game and I have heard very little positive about WVW and pvp in general to start getting my hopes up that it will be a positive experience.

The initial information concerning wvwv promised much and it seems it hasn't delivered, Players primarily want a good gaming experience that is interesting and somewhat balanced.
The theory was that while it couldn't be completely balanced they would match large servers against multiple smaller servers to achieve some kind of parity.
Players say that has not happened mainly due to players bailing from losing servers to join bigger more active ones.

It seems anet has their work cut out players need to have some freedom of movement from server to server to join friends while they also need to match up servers in a semi balanced way to provide fun for both sides.
If and when they achieve that I will be there.

Edited by Gremlin, 12 November 2012 - 06:01 PM.

[Vayra86]

Killyox, on 12 November 2012 - 01:29 PM, said:

But you gave example of high scores. How is that not loose? It also isn't content. Give it time. I still remember what WoW was for a long time after release. And don't start argument that games should fight vs WoW after all those years because developing the game and then adding so many features in short time is impossible. It all needs time and it's better they released it like this instead of waiting couple years more.

Also plenty of people cried "JUST RELEASE IT ALREADY THE WAY IT IS!!!!!!!"

Right.

First, to continue on the point of high scores. Name me one way in which GW2 provides some sort of similar service, where player tallies are kept, where you have a leaderboard? There is none, except what people try to create themselves. There are no rankings except personal glory gain. And that is not a ranking, it is just a measure of how many hours you've spent grinding cosmetic upgrades in any PVP modes.

The lack of a leaderboard is another glaring example of how GW2 fails to offer any kind of rewarding experience.


Second, I wonder how you would view your own arguments when I present the analogy of you buying a car, then after half a year you discover that the tank is leaking, the brakes are already worn away, and the engine breaks down occasionally.

Would you tell the salesman 'Oh, thats ok, I should have waited until you properly finished the car" ?

You would not.

You would want your money back, and it had better be today rather than tomorrow.

[lioka qiao]

Carrot on a stick is there to keep you playing and to keep collecting your subscription fee.  Guildwars does not have a subscription fee and as far as I'm aware never will have one.  Sure you can buy gems and i guess some people do but for most Anet only gets the retail box price.

I do WvW because it's fun.  It is a strategy game that is constantly moving and evolving.  One moment you take over all of your borderlands and begin to push into enemy territory, the next moment you're scrambling back to stop the enemy army from taking over your garrison.  All the while you devise strategies and move troops to execute those strategies.  It joys me to no end to run with a back attack against a zerg that is siegeing our keep to end up wiping that zerg completely.  That type of joy you can't get out of rewards or carrots.

Right now I grind money so i can get a commander title.  It's really annoying that it costs 100g to get commander but at the same time its the only way to actually be able to lead in WvW effectively.  That blue marker on the map is the difference of having your party behind you and losing 80% of them on the way to your objective.

[Sayura]

Honestly, I'm not sure why people are saying money is an issue in WvW unless you're really bad and die every 5 minutes and/or your server is getting pwned by zergs and you keep running into them free willy style.

The amount of loots drops and bags off of taking supply camps, dolyaks, sentry points and players far outweighs any of my repair costs. I end up making about 2-3 gold per day.

Edited by Sayura, 12 November 2012 - 03:54 PM.

[B3aT]

1. Because most of the time I don't feel to be a zombie in a zerg
2. portals + slow characters loading
3. the best strategy is to zerg
4. too small reward and the felling when wining is too weak

5. The winners doesnt attack Lions Arch of the loosers (like in Warhammers online )

No money problem,I play for fun not to make money , and if the theory is Not to die ..

[ck64]

Running Supply, Refreshing Golems, and Sitting in an Outpost for hours as a sentry just isn't fun and has 0 reward beyond helping your server.

[Sayura]

ck64, on 12 November 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

Running Supply, Refreshing Golems, and Sitting in an Outpost for hours as a sentry just isn't fun and has 0 reward beyond helping your server.

Karma, XP, badges, money/loot, achievements?

Seems like everything PvE gives minus the badges.

[AetherMcLoud]

Because it's pve and gear and numbers > skill.

I'll take real PVP over that every day of the week, even if it is limited to 3 maps.

Edited by AetherMcLoud, 12 November 2012 - 04:13 PM.

[Perm Shadow Form]

As everyone implied before. WvWvW is just a zerg. Mindless, chaotic non strategic zerg.

[Sayura]

Perm Shadow Form, on 12 November 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

As everyone implied before. WvWvW is just a zerg. Mindless, chaotic non strategic zerg.

Not true. Guildies and I run havoc squads and small groups of less than strategically 10 taking supply, dolys and sentry points.

Edited by Sayura, 12 November 2012 - 04:18 PM.

[Perm Shadow Form]

Sayura, on 12 November 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

Not true. Guildies and I run havoc squads and small groups of less than strategically 10 taking supply, dolys and sentry points.

Same did I with 7 other players/2 teams. Fighting NPCs is not PvP.

[Sayura]

Perm Shadow Form, on 12 November 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

Same did I with 7 other players/2 teams. Fighting NPCs is not PvP.

Why did you only fight NPCs? Also it's WvW...not PvP so it's not supposed to be strictly a tournament match.

[Perm Shadow Form]

Sayura, on 12 November 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

Why did you only fight NPCs? Also it's WvW...not PvP so it's not supposed to be strictly a tournament match.

Cause everyone else Zerg somewhere else.

[Sayura]

Perm Shadow Form, on 12 November 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

Cause everyone else Zerg somewhere else.

Sounds like a server issue. We always run into other havoc squads and small groups when we run ours. 10 people ran from our group of 4 Saturday night after we ran into them like crazy and drunk fools thinking we were going to die and not caring either way.

[Azure Skye]

Tacticalgrace, on 12 November 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

WvW can be a blast but there is no escaping its futility. Everything you capture, build and defend is washed away by the next zerg like building sand castles too close to the waves.

I wish people know this because its stupid for to keep everything once you get it for a week after you got it. I hate blow out match and i hate out manned matches with around the clock defence and offence. Once the dwindling oceanic player base goes to PvE or doesnt do that much WvW, then we will see a better game. I'm not hating the oceanics by no means. I just love the eb and flow of battle.

lioka qiao, on 12 November 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

Carrot on a stick is there to keep you playing and to keep collecting your subscription fee.  Guildwars does not have a subscription fee and as far as I'm aware never will have one.  Sure you can buy gems and i guess some people do but for most Anet only gets the retail box price.

I do WvW because it's fun.  It is a strategy game that is constantly moving and evolving.  One moment you take over all of your borderlands and begin to push into enemy territory, the next moment you're scrambling back to stop the enemy army from taking over your garrison.  All the while you devise strategies and move troops to execute those strategies.  It joys me to no end to run with a back attack against a zerg that is siegeing our keep to end up wiping that zerg completely.  That type of joy you can't get out of rewards or carrots.

Right now I grind money so i can get a commander title.  It's really annoying that it costs 100g to get commander but at the same time its the only way to actually be able to lead in WvW effectively.  That blue marker on the map is the difference of having your party behind you and losing 80% of them on the way to your objective.

Most people think reward first then the fun afterwards. WvW isn't a solo area to do yourself, get some people to do it with you and it will be fun. Hell, if you know what to do with seige weapons (treb) you can still solo a tower/keep yourself, if you know what you are doing and help a zerg to cap the keep/tower.

Edited by Azure Skye, 12 November 2012 - 04:34 PM.

[Elk]

I don't know how people can call WvW casual!? it's pretty inaccessible for casual players (one must zerg or find a group), mistakes are costly and players are never balanced.
It's not really what Anet promised. it's not accessible or an equal playing field (like SPvP). Maybe they've removed the cost of armour repairs in there? the whole lack of equality is that you have to have gear and skills of a level 80 to play properly, but if you're below 80 (at least the last time I played) you'd only get level buffed up.
there's also boring amounts of running time between battles. I know it's good to have an opponent stay out of battle for a while after you defeat them, but this isn't fun, therefore I don't play WvW.
SPvP is much more accessible than WvW (which map you can't see till you've already entered),  as you need a group to do things like take supply camps and I haven't noticed much of a change in the world from completing the skritt event.

WvW battles are fun, but a lot of the promises Anet made about WvW just didn't materialise in WvW (though some of them are present in SPvP).

Edited by Elk, 12 November 2012 - 04:39 PM.

[Erikir]

It just doesn't interest me.  I've been in the maps to get map completion, and when I do that I spend lots of time running away from other people.  When I get caught, I usually die very, very quickly.  This is in large part to my very limited skills, and probably contributed to by my lack of high stat equipment.

So, yeah, I'm one of those guys who runs away into zergs.  If you do manage to catch me, I'm not much of an interesting fight :/  I hadn't considered logging out... that would have saved me money on repairs.  If I go back for more map completion, I'll try that.