1975 replies to this topic

[Sieghildr]

Mireles, on 13 November 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

Just because you don't like dungeons, people shouldn't be able to obtain rewards better than yours gear playing them?
... please...

Uh, that's exactly what we have. Dungeons are entirely optional for obtaining exotic gear.

[Dark]

Sieghildr, on 13 November 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:

Uh, that's exactly what we have. Dungeons are entirely optional for obtaining exotic gear.

You dont seem to be able to understand much...

[Runkleford]

Mireles, on 13 November 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

I like how people pretend we don't have a gear treadmill now.... White -> Blue -> Green -> Yellow -> Orange -> Red.

Try to stick a pink between orange and red people start trippin.

Oh no you might actually have a good reason to do a dungeon now.. what a crap game! /sarcasm

There's no difference between orange and red. Stop being so ignorant. Also, people have already worked for those orange and reds with the previous knowledge that there will be no higher tier of items with better stats. Yet now they are introducing higher tiers. That's the whole problem with the treadmill. Your argument is over simplistic and leaves out crucial details to the problem.

[Sieghildr]

Dark, on 13 November 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

You dont seem to be able to understand much...

Care to elaborate? Dude is saying people who run dungeons should get better gear than people who don't. That's not how the game currently works, though.

[Fizzypop]

Ardeni, on 13 November 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

And... You know this how?

Did you not read the blog?

"
New Condition: Agony

In the upcoming Fractals of the Mists dungeon, we’ll introduce a new monster condition called Agony.
This extremely dangerous condition ticks percentages of player health away and can’t be cleansed by normal means. Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must. The only way to mitigate Agony damage is by building up resistance through Infusions, a new type of upgrade component that can be acquired in the Mystic Forge."

"For now, Infusions slots can only be found in gear of a new rarity type: Ascended."

https://www.guildwar...-ascended-gear/

[karekiz]

Mireles, on 13 November 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

Would you prefer they made all gear have the same stats?  I mean exotics are harder to obtain than rares. wheres the fuss about that?  
would you prefer it if they just added it into your inventory for no effort at all?

Except that exotics are not required to do instances.  Or are you those people that shout LF3M Must be Pro 80 exotic AC path 1/2?  That I see sometimes in LA.  You miss the point entirely because you can't face simple basic idea's:

You enter gear grind to appease people that got to your "exotic set" and got bored.  - ***Was stated in the post***
What happens when they get to Ascended set? They will get bored again.  -  Why do you think WoW continues to add "moar" stats?
Then ANet adds Ascended 2.0 with another set of stats. - They are trying to attack WoW which will eventually lead to failure like all the other MMO's in the past decade tried.

It is so painfully obvious it is hard to tell if you have shades on.

Mireles, on 13 November 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

or are you just trying to find things to complain about and reasons why you don't want to play a particular part of the game?  
Just because you don't like dungeons, people shouldn't be able to obtain rewards better than yours gear playing them?
... please...

As someone who actually does dungeons a lot, no we should get better ******statted****** rewards.  We complained about loot in dungeons yes, but we actually meant that chest drops were utterly useless and adding exotic drops would help aleviate player concern.  RNG is a big tool (they see that now) and making loot "suxxorz" always is a big downfall.  It is PAINFUL to see 3 blues from a boss.  They didn't fix the problem they just put a bandage over a cut off arm.

[Fizzypop]

Alaroxr, on 13 November 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

Exotic Ring:
Pow- 63
Pre- 63

Ascended Ring:
Pow- 68
Pre- 68

If you have full Exotics now, you don't need to grind for an Ascended set. In fact, if you want to use Runes or want to customize your stats with Orbs, then getting Ascended is a BAD idea. Even so, there will only be THREE new Ascended items that will be ~8% better. A back slot (which you've all been waiting for) and two Rings.

However, I don't like the idea of forcing us to get the gear to counter the new enemies and counter Agony.

You forgot that the ring is a magic find item and thus knight for example would have a higher stat budget and so would bereskers. So those numbers would be HIGHER for those items. Seriously this isn't the first mmo with a stat budget guys.

As you said right now there is only rings and a back piece for ascended. There isn't any armor coming in the patch. So we have no idea how they'll handle runes in armor. If  they added infusion slots to exotics it would've made more sense if all they wanted to do was add agony for the new instance. It makes little sense to add a new tier that is worse than exotics. So I'm guessing armor will be handled differently or will have runes straight built into them.

[Fizzypop]

karekiz, on 13 November 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

Why do you think WoW continues to add "moar" stats?

Along those lines it's also why blizz has to keep rebalancing content and keep talking about shrinking the numbers which requires an overhaul of all the gear in the game. It's actually much easier to balance things around static stats.

Edited by Fizzypop, 13 November 2012 - 09:18 PM.

[Lordkrall]

Fizzypop, on 13 November 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

You forgot that the ring is a magic find item and thus knight for example would have a higher stat budget and so would bereskers. So those numbers would be HIGHER for those items. Seriously this isn't the first mmo with a stat budget guys.

As you said right now there is only rings and a back piece for ascended. There isn't any armor coming in the patch. So we have no idea how they'll handle runes in armor. If  they added infusion slots to exotics it would've made more sense if all they wanted to do was add agony for the new instance. It makes little sense to add a new tier that is worse than exotics. So I'm guessing armor will be handled differently or will have runes straight built into them.

This is still based on the assumption that these items will work the exact same way as the exotic items.

We do not know if that is the case. So why shout about it before we actually have proof?

[Hector]

I voted no and no. If anet add more tiers... I am done with GW2.

That isn't being dramatic, that is just what I am going to do. They got my money, I hope they enjoy all of the money they will ever get from me.

[karekiz]

Lordkrall, on 13 November 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

This is still based on the assumption that these items will work the exact same way as the exotic items.

We do not know if that is the case. So why shout about it before we actually have proof?

If we had a PTR to see this change before it went live we would.

But waiting for a bad content update to go live to realize it is a bad content update is just laughable.  The simple fact your asking for "more proof" when we quote articles written by ANet (something you guys said "had to be done") is all I need.  They made their stance, and I made mine.  Based on logical conclusions and the context of their "new high end ascended gear".

Edited by karekiz, 13 November 2012 - 09:25 PM.

[Xenesis]

Mireles, on 13 November 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

They said in their official blog there going to move legendary that exist up, and new ones created after.

Who said anything about purple items?, there is that making assumptions to complain about to try make your argument more sufficient i was talking about.

If less than a percent difference per item in your over all combat stats is a good reason not to care about WvW in its entirety go right on ahead, it will be just fine without you.

Would you prefer they made all gear have the same stats?  I mean exotics are harder to obtain than rares. wheres the fuss about that?  
would you prefer it if they just added it into your inventory for no effort at all?
or are you just trying to find things to complain about and reasons why you don't want to play a particular part of the game?  
Just because you don't like dungeons, people shouldn't be able to obtain rewards better than yours gear playing them?
... please...

Purple epics part was a jab at another game, do I really need to spell that out? Do you honestly think they are going to stop at ascended level items? how long you think this next round of gear is going to last before the bored gear grinders start complaining again? You're still looking at the small picture while I'm looking at the big picture of what this change does to wvw down the road.

Yes I expect exotics to be around the same stats, that is the horizontal progression they have been touting about and what they built gw1 and gw2 on. There is no reason why they couldn't have made ascended gear with the same stats as exotics and not have a bonus in there, they're already using the item slot to get creative with new mechanics, is that not enough for you to want to obtain in order to get further in the new dungeon? If they left the bonus stats out they would have made every single player happy.

Again rares are not the end game loot, you start getting them as low as level 32, by level 80 they are fodder for making exotics. Why do people always come back with the lame argument of if we want the gear for free? You can earn exotics through pvp, through temple karma, through dungeons, through crafting, through mystic forge, buy it on the trading post, they are NOT HARD to get, and you have the option to obtain them playing YOUR preferred way.

When your game is built with pve AND pvp end games, nevermind that you can level up and gear entirely through pvp as well, I expect progress to continue both ways. You want to dungeon for pve gear be my guest! if you are going to allow that gear in pvp then I expect to earn it through pvp methods as well. It's that simple, why can't people understand that.

[Fizzypop]

Lordkrall, on 13 November 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

This is still based on the assumption that these items will work the exact same way as the exotic items.

We do not know if that is the case. So why shout about it before we actually have proof?

Because that's about as likely as a pig flying. It'd be a huge change to their entire system. Just about every mmo in existance uses a stat budget of sorts. I highly doubt this is the only one that suddenly doesn't even though it started with it. Everything is a guess at this point even yours, but mine has more substance. I'm relying on their system already in place to be the same especially since this is a new tier of said system. Your idea is more farfetched. I'll stick with mine until proven otherwise. Ok? cool.

[fatrodmc]

Hang on, if these items can only take infusions in the upgrade slot, and infusions don't add any stats other than 'resistance' then they might actually be worse.

I would assume that these items are only superior for said dungeon, and no where else.

[DarkGanni]

Maybe Like others I AM overreacting BUT from my experience in other mmos this is a horrible idea. Played another MMO where they kept adding stronger gear which eventually led from normal grind to extreme  grind unless you used credit card and it eventually led me to quitting.

In GW1 I never had this problem because it was always a matter of skins and with GW2's current state It's more or less the same and I love it. This might change a few things but I'll just wait and see.

[Pip]

I'm a bit disappointed by this change, but I also think people are vastly overreacting to the news.  Even after the blog post, we still don't have enough information to really know how the system will work.

How hard will a Mystic Forge Ascended Cape be to make?

How rare a drop will the Ascended Rings be... and obviously in the future, how rare will Ascended Armor be?

We know that Ascended Armor does not have an upgrade slot for Gem/Runes, but we have also not seen an actual Infused upgrade item... will it give us more stats or will it just be entirely dealing with Agony?

How specialized will Ascended Armor be?  Will they have the typical Knights, Carrion, Berserkers, etc stat distributions?  Or will they have more generalized stat distributions, to make exotics more appealing (with their more specialized stats / customization)?

Will they be useable in WvW?

There are some pretty major questions that we have NO answers to.  And some of those answers we probably won't really know for some time, long past the Lost Shore update.

I'm a bit disappointed with the Ascended Tier personally.  It won't stop me from playing the game, but I fear it's a sign on how the game will grow from here.  I'm not a fan of the Agony Resistance, especially if later dungeons have some NEW infused resistance item I need, pushing me to getting yet another set of armor.  At this point though, there is no changing it in the short term.  So I'll sit back and wait to see the answer to some of these questions before deciding if this is a system that really is worth getting my pitchfork out over.

[EphraimGlass]

Lycrus, on 13 November 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

so? after exotics, you simply have another goal now. goals are fine, without goals, you dont do anything. the point is..these goals are not needed for you to enjoy the game..

Except exotics are really longer a worthy goal.  They're not the pinnacle anymore.  They're just another step on the way to the top.  In any case, it was never really about the gear.  It was just nice to know that once I got to the exotic tier, I could focus my attention on other things and not have to worry about my gear anymore.  Don't get me wrong, I'm having tons of fun just playing the game.  Part of the reason why this makes me sad is that it hints at a possible end to my fun.  They're raising the gear cap before I even reached the last gear cap.  It's a very small, incremental raise, sure, but it's a pattern that I don't want to continue.  Right now, I'm approximately one tier behind the cap.  And by the time people are fully kitted in ascended gear, I'll probably be in exotic, so still just one tier behind, more or less.  If the pattern continues, I will eventually fall more than one tier behind and that prospect is upsetting to me.

[KrakenAZ]

No.  This is clearly a departure from the core design philosophy espoused by the 'MMO Manifesto' that attracted me to the game in the first place.

Depends.  How far will they take this, is the the beginning of the slide down the proverbial slippery slope?  Only time will tell.

[Ritualist]

Mireles, on 13 November 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

I like how people pretend we don't have a gear treadmill now.... White -> Blue -> Green -> Yellow -> Orange -> Red.

Try to stick a pink between orange and red people start trippin.

Oh no you might actually have a good reason to do a dungeon now.. what a crap game! /sarcasm

I'd say that the people who are the most pissed about this are the people who feel that the game already has too much vertical progression and would find a reason to do dungeons without the game shoving it down out throats. You know, those of us that don't need a +1 to our stats to have fun.

[Ardeni]

Fizzypop, on 13 November 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

Did you not read the blog?

"
New Condition: Agony

In the upcoming Fractals of the Mists dungeon, we’ll introduce a new monster condition called Agony.
This extremely dangerous condition ticks percentages of player health away and can’t be cleansed by normal means. Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must. The only way to mitigate Agony damage is by building up resistance through Infusions, a new type of upgrade component that can be acquired in the Mystic Forge."

"For now, Infusions slots can only be found in gear of a new rarity type: Ascended."

https://www.guildwar...-ascended-gear/

Didn't read indeed. Weird that I didn't notice it since I did check the site today. Quite a nasty move, and it's reasons are clearly keeping some people playing the game, but still this doesn't really matter to my gaming experience since as long as I don't have the ascended gear, I can just avoid that new dungeon. I don't care about getting there asap that much.

Edit: After reading, I might add that the vision that this post gives of future sounds quite disturbing. I, too, would say that this new path is a mistake.

Edited by Ardeni, 13 November 2012 - 10:07 PM.

[Xellial]

DuskWolf, on 13 November 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

Were any of you really surprised? Even the first beta wasn't close to what their manifesto promised, and ever since then they've done nothing other than add grind and higher prices. More grind! Higher prices! The game is a cynical exercise in how much you can control people with marketing.

This is a case of leading a horse to grind, and it will drink it all up. This is why we have endlessly skinnerbox games, which are devoid of strategy and fun. You spend most of your time grinding in a bored way until you get your next piece of gear. So you can fight the next boss. So you can get the next piece of gear. So you can fight the next boss. Being lead by your hand from one zerg-zone to the next.

I'm not at all surprised by this. What sickens me is that none of you seem to want to take a stand for the game that could have been. This is why I've long since given up on GW2. Roll on Neverwinter.

I actually am working on getting a Refund on the fact they they effectively used false-advertising to lure me to the game.

Do I feel happy about it? Oh, hell no, I feel like a *. I feel terrible that I'm asking back for my money, but at this point it's more on the matter of the principle of what they've done. I've been with them since Prophecies, and this is just not right.

I do hope they gather the WoW-Crowd they're aiming for, though. I hope they go full-force with this new direction instead of half-assing it and seeming indecisive.

[Lordkrall]

Are people seriously thinking they can get a refund for a product that they might have used for about 3 months?

Do you think you would get a refund after seeing a movie because it was not as cool as the trailer?

[Krill]

Unbelievable...I have 3 sets of exotic armor between my two characters, and about a dozen various exotic weapons. Not to mention on the money spent on transmutation stones and skins to transmute.

I could live with it if there was a way to "cash out" exotic gear like you can with rares...but the fact is, you basically throw away 2-3g+ salvaging exotics. If they changed the salvage system to a gauranteed 5 ectos + 1-5 more, then it would be a little easier to stomach, but as is, it's a joke.

[Red J]

So much hysteria in this thread.

I don't care about the ascended gear, even though I bought my full exotic armor a week ago. After all, it's just rings and back slots. Nothing to tear my hair for.

Edited by Red J, 13 November 2012 - 10:04 PM.

[Xellial]

Lordkrall, on 13 November 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

Are people seriously thinking they can get a refund for a product that they might have used for about 3 months?

Do you think you would get a refund after seeing a movie because it was not as cool as the trailer?

It works, and they've done it/They're doing it. One could try to say LEGALLY they blah blah blah, but I'm not going to do that lol.

Like I said, I don't believe it's entirely right, but maybe they'll learn something from me? Who knows,


Europe actually has more lenient laws regarding consumerism. They have six months legally they can ask for a refund.

Edited by Xellial, 13 November 2012 - 10:04 PM.

[Sandpit]

Cheap bad mechanics are easy to add

Quality game design and content is hard to add

Guess what ANet went for. This is just bilge.

[Lordkrall]

Sandpit, on 13 November 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

Cheap bad mechanics are easy to add

Quality game design and content is hard to add

Guess what ANet went for. This is just bilge.

Indeed, because we know exactly how the whole thing will work without even testing it...

[karekiz]

https://forum-en.gui...hreads/page/113

And I bet ANet thought the dungeon forums had the worst negative reactions.

This just made the dungeon forums look like a cherry sunny picnic in comparison.

[Xellial]

You know, sitting here thinking about all this mess, I have to wonder - Why didn't they just ask us, as players, what we would think of an update such as this before actually putting so much dev work into it?

[Strawberry Nubcake]

Lordkrall, on 13 November 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

Are people seriously thinking they can get a refund for a product that they might have used for about 3 months?

Do you think you would get a refund after seeing a movie because it was not as cool as the trailer?

Someone posted in the refund thread the other day to say that Anet gave him a refund for the game he purchased 3 months ago.  I don't recall him listing his reason, but he advised others to ask for a refund if they were bored or hated the game.  Apparently Anet considers "I raced through the content and now I'm bored!" a legit reason for requesting a refund.  I guess borrowing PC games for a few months is a thing now!

I'm obviously an idiot.  I just uninstall my games instead of asking for a refund when I get bored or upset about something.