1975 replies to this topic

[Dromar]

TL;DR

GW2 has no endgame besides farming skins and money and it worked in GW1 because the games core was centered around it but GW2 is another story. It blends GW1 philosophies with traditional MMO ones. This new tier of armor from what I see is a compliment to GW2s own philosophy.

I don't want to sit at max level with nothing to do but farm gold. This is a huge flaw in any game as it sets a person up to blow through newly added content because they have a stockpile of money. Legendarys themselves couldn't accomplish this offset of economic balance because either people don't give two shits about them or the people that wanted them already have the one or two they wanted with 1000g to spare due to taking advantage of a broken economy/gold farming method.

I hope this new content is hard as hell and gives players something to work for and I certainly don't see dungeons being affected. I remember doing dungeons in greens and they were easy, know why? Because this game is not a gear based game like WoW. GW2 exp dungeons require you to use your brain and dodge that nasty spirit scream by dodging to the bosses backside or know that it is a 180 degree AoE so you stay behind him(if your ranged).

When I was doing dungeons at the beginning I was in greens and a few rares. When I make a small mistake I lived to heal up, remove conditions or pop panic buttons to survive, when I made a huge mistake I died. Its the same exact shit in exotics. Only thing exotics do is close the gap slightly that it gives you a couple more seconds to pop that heal or panic button when you make a small mistake, chances are you will still die on the big ones. What matters in GW2 is how your character is specced and the type of stats you have on your gear and thats always been the deciding factor 98% of the time. I see people in full exotic zerker gear die all the time because they chose the role of a glass cannon and I am usually the one flipping the bill reviving them because I chose to spec a durable dps build that doesnt do as much damage but has greater survivability.

This Ascended gear is only going to give you a second or two more at the very best(depending on how your specced). The main purpose of the acended gear is to give the game more flavor than it already has through a sort of infusion system like in GW1 that doesnt add a massive GW2 breaking gear treadmill that you see in traditional MMOs such as WoW where the stat increase on one piece of armor is probably 70-100 per stat in the new expansion(just an educated guess, havent played since WotLK).

Now if your worried about the upgrade slot have no fear, it won't add more stats but protect against a new mechanic called agony which I have come to realize its probably something like infused armor in GW1.

On a side note... the fact its called agony makes me think were going to see the mursaat.

TL;DR: Stop crying, its not going to matter.

Edited by Dromar, 14 November 2012 - 03:38 AM.

[Specialz]

karekiz, on 14 November 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

Now hold on there.   The lack of players wanting legendaries might have been because legendaries in their current state are *not* fun to get.  They are a grind that involves no real skill.  Not only that but each weapon type had one specific look and nothing else.  Adding a middle ground will *NOT* solve the inherit problem with legendaries.  Once the Stat crowd get their +2 they will look at legendaries and leave the exact way they got exotics and looked at legendaries and left.

Let's be real here there is no skill associated with doing anything PvE. Eventually, they will be a systematic approach and everybody will get it, even the people that don't have this imaginary "skill". Secondly, the reason why legendaries are not fun is because it is because people are trying to turn a long term project into a short term project because they see others with it. legendaries are things you work on while doing other things it was not meant to be a something you actively work.  

Which goes back to my point, arenanet overestimated the type of player that play their game and thought they will behave in a certain manner, clearly they are wrong and they trying to correct it in a way that is common and MOST effective in the genre. People can preach how cosmetic gear is important pre-release, how you don't need carrot on the stick, then turn around and whine how there is no carrot in the stick no reward for doing any other content (leveling down to other zones to play) and stick to orr.

Everquest if not relevant to this game other than they have legendaries. I don't know how they do it, i don't care how they do it and i m speaking entirely on this game. Really, whose to say in this age of information that if people really cared about those legendaries they wouldn't be going after them?

Edited by Specialz, 14 November 2012 - 03:36 AM.

[sanctuaire]

karekiz, on 14 November 2012 - 03:29 AM, said:

The same reason you are posting about people posting about it?

no just really wondering about it. what's the motivation for
keeping posting in the game forum on a game you disagree with/
/uninstalled/ have no intention of playing anymore?

its like a relationship didn't work out, but you still keep
stalking your previous partner.

if things didn't work out for (in RL/game/whatever)
when you end it, end it. wouldn't do anything good for either.
move on, find something that you love to do/ play.


.

Edited by sanctuaire, 14 November 2012 - 03:38 AM.

[Xellial]

sanctuaire, on 14 November 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

just wondering why people who stopped playing / doesn't support it
anymore keep posting about it in the game forums.

Criticisms. I enjoy the game, supported the company for most of my life, but I don't support their new decision and direction. Why do I still post? Because I feel like I have some decent ideas, feedback, and criticisms to offer Arenanet and perhaps the community. Another point of view isn't a bad thing.

You got to look at this broader.

[karekiz]

sanctuaire, on 14 November 2012 - 03:34 AM, said:

no just really wondering about it. what's the motivation for
keeping posting in the game forum on a game you disagree with/
/uninstalled/ have no intention of playing anymore?

I can't say about those uninstalling as I am keen to see the new dungeon, and my brother still plays.

But just because I play doesn't mean I have to like everything from the game.  That good enough for ya?  I am defending my viewpoint that adding a mediocre stat progression will hurt the game in the long run.  I have stated it before you can't please everyone, and ANet is surely trying to do that.  They are trying to appease Gear progression (in traditional MMO sense) while trying to appease GW1/current GW2 players.

If you want info just look on their forums.  Their is a LOT of negative reaction (and some positive), but mostly negative.

Edited by karekiz, 14 November 2012 - 03:43 AM.

[Xellial]

Dromar, on 14 November 2012 - 03:33 AM, said:

TL;DR

GW2 has no endgame besides farming skins and money and it worked in GW1 because the games core was centered around it but GW2 is another story. It blends GW1 philosophies with traditional MMO ones. This new tier of armor from what I see is a compliment to GW2s own philosophy.

I don't want to sit at max level with nothing to do but farm gold. This is a huge flaw in any game as it sets a person up to blow through newly added content because they have a stockpile of money. Legendarys themselves couldn't accomplish this offset of economic balance because either people don't give two shits about them or the people that wanted them already have the one or two they wanted with 1000g to spare due to taking advantage of a broken economy/gold farming method.

I hope this new content is hard as hell and gives players something to work for and I certainly don't see dungeons being affected. I remember doing dungeons in greens and they were easy, know why? Because this game is not a gear based game like WoW. GW2 exp dungeons require you to use your brain and dodge that nasty spirit scream by dodging to the bosses backside or know that it is a 180 degree AoE so you stay behind him(if your ranged).

When I was doing dungeons at the beginning I was in greens and a few rares. When I make a small mistake I lived to heal up, remove conditions or pop panic buttons to survive, when I made a huge mistake I died. Its the same exact shit in exotics. Only thing exotics do is close the gap slightly that it gives you a couple more seconds to pop that heal or panic button when you make a small mistake, chances are you will still die on the big ones. What matters in GW2 is how your character is specced and the type of stats you have on your gear and thats always been the deciding factor 98% of the time. I see people in full exotic zerker gear die all the time because they chose the role of a glass cannon and I am usually the one flipping the bill reviving them because I chose to spec a durable dps build that doesnt do as much damage but has greater survivability.

This Ascended gear is only going to give you a second or two more at the very best(depending on how your specced). The main purpose of the acended gear is to give the game more flavor than it already has through a sort of infusion system like in GW1 that doesnt add a massive GW2 breaking gear treadmill that you see in traditional MMOs such as WoW where the stat increase on one piece of armor is probably 70-100 per stat in the new expansion(just an educated guess, havent played since WotLK).

Now if your worried about the upgrade slot have no fear, it won't add more stats but protect against a new mechanic called agony which I have come to realize its probably something like infused armor in GW1.

On a side note... the fact its called agony makes me think were going to see the mursaat.

TL;DR: Stop crying, its not going to matter.

Irrelevant. They went in with many GW1 philosophies even if they did adopt traditional MMO beliefs. If they had planned to release gear-Creeping, they sure left it out of the press, manifesto, and advertisements/blog posts.

Nothing to do at 80? How about challenge yourself? Do dungeons, set personal goals. Just because you can't get gear that has new stats, your experience is over? I do not envy you. I myself wanted to, and did, grind dungeons for looks. Kept me entertained REALLY well, and since I didn't feel the need to do Dungeon A to do dungeon B, I felt like I had MORE to do.

Maybe I'm weird.

Edited by Xellial, 14 November 2012 - 03:42 AM.

[Specialz]

Xellial, on 14 November 2012 - 03:40 AM, said:

Irrelevant. They went in with many GW1 philosophies even if they did adopt traditional MMO beliefs. If they had planned to release gear-Creeping, they sure left it out of the press, manifesto, and advertisements/blog posts.

Guild wars 1 had gear creep hidden behind titles and PvE-only skill. Soooooooooooooooooooooo, it is not really different than the usual we gotten. And manifesto are ideals, not reality, reality is full of compromise. In compromise some are going to be happy and others are gonna act like its the end of the world and their life is over and threaten to quit or refund.

MMORPG are nothing more than a combination of compromise designed to appeal to as many people as possible.

Resolve, on 14 November 2012 - 03:44 AM, said:

Just like how people keep posting wrong information, like legendaries giving higher stats (earlier in the thread). You gotta wonder if those people have even played the game at all.

I posted that legendaries gave higher stats because of the database, I have no real interest in them other than their money making potential. So not knowing the true stats just means I did not care enough about the difference between tiers, since tiers have no effect on how I play the game. ( i still use rare mf as my armor because I don't need care about exotic). Even though I have a lot of gold in my inventory.

Edited by Specialz, 14 November 2012 - 03:48 AM.

[sanctuaire]

Xellial, on 14 November 2012 - 03:36 AM, said:

Criticisms. I enjoy the game, supported the company for most of my life, but I don't support their new decision and direction. Why do I still post? Because I feel like I have some decent ideas, feedback, and criticisms to offer Arenanet and perhaps the community. Another point of view isn't a bad thing.

You got to look at this broader.

true.
but isn't it also true that you'll be better informed in giving proper suggestions
if you're still actually playing the game? changes can and has happened between then,
and reading about them in changelogs are quite different from actually playing.

to be clear though, personally do not support new gear treadmill in stats, would love new skins though.
.

@karekiz,
that post was about the guy who unsintalled the game, not at you.
and yes, i  don't like everthing in the game either, along with new better -stats gear grind.

criticisms are good, not arguing that.
having no intention to play the game anymore is another thing.

.

[Xodiak]

Dromar, on 14 November 2012 - 03:33 AM, said:

TL;DR

GW2 has no endgame besides farming skins and money and it worked in GW1 because the games core was centered around it but GW2 is another story...etc..

I like you, post more!
Also.. people forget how the MMO landscape was better shaped/has changed from the time GW1 came out until today.

[Xellial]

Specialz, on 14 November 2012 - 03:45 AM, said:

Guild wars 1 had gear creep hidden behind titles and PvE-only skill. Soooooooooooooooooooooo, it is not really different than the usual we gotten. And manifesto are ideals, not reality, reality is full of compromise. In compromise some are going to be happy and others are gonna act like its the end of the world and their life is over and threaten to quit or refund.

MMORPG are nothing more

sanctuaire, on 14 November 2012 - 03:45 AM, said:

true.
but isn't it also true that you'll be better informed in giving proper suggestions
if you're still actually playing the game? changes can and has happened between then,
and reading about them in changelogs are quite different from actually playing.

to be clear though, personally do not support new gear treadmill in stats, would love new skins though.
.

@karekiz,
that post was about the guy who unsintalled the game, not at you.
and yes, i  don't like everthing in the game either, along with new better -stats gear grind.

criticisms are good, not arguing that.
having no intention to play the game anymore is another thing.

.

than a combination of compromise designed to appeal to as many people as possible.


I posted that legendaries gave higher stats because of the database, I have no real interest in them other than their money making potential. So not knowing the true stats just means I did not care enough about the difference between tiers, since tiers have no effect on how I play the game. ( i still use rare mf as my armor because I don't need care about exotic). Even though I have a lot of gold in my inventory.

When you sell a game on ideals and philosophy you better stick to it. I can't go ahead and raise 100 billion for charity, then I go bankrupt, and just say "Oh, well, I'm going Bankrupt, I'm keeping this money due to the circumstance".

My stances on GW1 PvE titles have already been expressed. Didn't agree with them then when I played, still don't.


You're right. I only have Forum posts, blog posts, and some of my friends to talk to about the game now that I've quit. I'll stay involved in the game and community. Hell, maybe I'll buy it again if they re-think their stance. Just because I got a refund doesn't mean I can't re-buy the game.

My quotes got messed up. You guys will just have to find who's is who's.

Edited by Xellial, 14 November 2012 - 03:52 AM.

[Runkleford]

Specialz, on 14 November 2012 - 03:45 AM, said:

Guild wars 1 had gear creep hidden behind titles and PvE-only skill. Soooooooooooooooooooooo, it is not really different than the usual we gotten. And manifesto are ideals, not reality, reality is full of compromise. In compromise some are going to be happy and others are gonna act like its the end of the world and their life is over and threaten to quit or refund.

MMORPG are nothing more than a combination of compromise designed to appeal to as many people as possible.

Titles and PVE skills were added late to the game and were not universally liked. Also, the difference there is that titles and PVE skills did NOT make your current armor obsolete. It's not really gear creep if it involved no gear and didn't render your previous work worthless now can it? Not that title grinding was okay but it was still better than gear treadmills like the ones you see in WoW.

Now we don't know if ANET will continue with this trend. If it stops here that's fine. I still don't like it but I can live with it. But like with anything in life, there's a line where people can only tolerate so much.

[Dromar]

Xellial, on 14 November 2012 - 03:40 AM, said:

Irrelevant. They went in with many GW1 philosophies even if they did adopt traditional MMO beliefs. If they had planned to release gear-Creeping, they sure left it out of the press, manifesto, and advertisements/blog posts.

Nothing to do at 80? How about challenge yourself? Do dungeons, set personal goals. Just because you can't get gear that has new stats, your experience is over? I do not envy you. I myself wanted to, and did, grind dungeons for looks. Kept me entertained REALLY well, and since I didn't feel the need to do Dungeon A to do dungeon B, I felt like I had MORE to do.

Maybe I'm weird.

The only way to challenge myself is to gimp myself and I shouldn't have to do that. BTW I have had full dungeon exotics for well over a month and all dungeons done with tokens to spare to gear an alt as soon as they hit 80. I even grinded HotW for the stats on gear then  transmuted them over on to CoF armor. Has this game only been out for 2 1/2 months? they need to add another tier of gear for god sakes(joking)

[karekiz]

Xellial, on 14 November 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

When you sell a game on ideals and philosophy you better stick to it. I can't go ahead and raise 100 billion for charity, then I go bankrupt, and just say "Oh, well, I'm going Bankrupt, I'm keeping this money due to the circumstance".

That isn't remotely what is happening.

They had bad game design. So instead of fixing it (more costly) they went the least costly route which inherently is the worse game design route (unless handled by very good devs, which ANet don't have a track record for at this point) - add numbers to gear.

This to me shows they are unwilling to fix what was actually wrong with the problem (bugs/performance/basic dungeon design/TRUE loot revision) and just masking it with numbers.

[Xellial]

Dromar, on 14 November 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

The only way to challenge myself is to gimp myself and I shouldn't have to do that. BTW I have had full dungeon exotics for well over a month and all dungeons done with tokens to spare to gear an alt as soon as they hit 80. I even grinded HotW for the stats on gear then  transmuted them over on to CoF armor. Has this game only been out for 2 1/2 months? they need to add another tier of gear for god sakes(joking)

Seems like you're dedicated and you actually have invested time in the game. I'm glad you actually did play the game a bit before you posted, you've earned my respect.

What would you propose they add, or change, with the game to increase playtime for people like you or I, who have done most of the dungeons and grinded out our gear? I personally would say just more content, perhaps harder content. This new dungeon idea seams nice, sans the new mini-tier + Agony system.

I personally would love to see dungeons as deep and complex as DoA/UW/FoW. The new dungeons are too Linear, the GW1 Dungeons were remarkable with their questing systems, In my opinion.

karekiz, on 14 November 2012 - 03:55 AM, said:

That isn't remotely what is happening.

They had bad game design. So instead of fixing it (more costly) they went the least costly route which inherently is the worse game design route (unless handled by very good devs, which ANet don't have a track record for at this point) - add numbers to gear.

This to me shows they are unwilling to fix what was actually wrong with the problem (bugs/performance/basic dungeon design/TRUE loot revision) and just masking it with numbers.

Bad game design? Seemed to work for, what, Seven plus years for Guild Wars 1, Being one of the most sold mmo games in history?

[Specialz]

Xellial, on 14 November 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

When you sell a game on ideals and philosophy you better stick to it. I can't go ahead and raise 100 billion for charity, then I go bankrupt, and just say "Oh, well, I'm going Bankrupt, I'm keeping this money due to the circumstance".

My stances on GW1 PvE titles have already been expressed. Didn't agree with them then when I played, still don't.

Ideals are not design decisions. if you bought a game purely out of ideals then I hope you learned that lesson. Mechanics are what keeps people playing the game day after day after day. The only time most people bother with this ideals are when it goes against what they want, but if they favor it, a lot of people conveniently forget about those ideals.

At the end of the day Arenanet is NOT a charity, they are a business OUT to make money. If arenanet could make money any other way they would do it as well.

Honestly, Arenanet manifesto was imo based on the flawed assumption that a lot of MMO player play mmo to have and not the amount of busy work it provides for them. They based on complaints by former player and some currrent players that, cosmetic gear is not sufficient and no matter how fun the game if there is no loot progression, they wont play it.

Going back to my point, ideals are a road you follow sometimes you deviate from that road if reality is not matching your assumption. The bet wrong on the type of people that play MMO and now they are adjusting to it. You might not like it, I don't like it, but the difference is I am not threaten by someone how has +2 more stats like I said I log in have fun and log the * out.

Tl;DR
Arenanet is not a charity, it is a company for profit. They assume too much about the populace that play MMO and made their manifesto based on that and unfortunately for them they bet wrong. Manifesto are not a contract they are an ideal they hoped to hold but sometimes reality bites hard.

ADDED: companies that don't react to change end up like RIM.

Edited by Specialz, 14 November 2012 - 04:06 AM.

[DidYouSeeThat]

Resolve, on 14 November 2012 - 02:55 AM, said:

Having 100 more stats can easily be the deciding factor in a fight. Ever survived an encounter with ~10hp? An extra crit? It's just silly to defend another tier of stats by saying they don't matter. If they didn't matter then why would they even be getting added in the first place?

Saying they don't matter and saying that they aren't the deciding factor are different. Every bit of stat can help that's no secret but to say just because someone has 100 more stats means they automatically win a fight is just plain foolish and goes to show how little skill you have with your class when you start to depend solely on gear.

[karekiz]

sanctuaire, on 14 November 2012 - 03:45 AM, said:

@karekiz,
that post was about the guy who unsintalled the game, not at you.
and yes, i  don't like everthing in the game either, along with new better -stats gear grind.

criticisms are good, not arguing that.
having no intention to play the game anymore is another thing.

Ahh ok then.  By the way your post made me think of this.

http://www.escapistm...g-Tantrums-Win#  - Language warning cause I am like that

haha  They should look at this.

Edited by karekiz, 14 November 2012 - 04:06 AM.

[Xellial]

Specialz, on 14 November 2012 - 04:04 AM, said:

Ideals are not design decisions. if you bought a game purely out of ideals then I hope you learned that lesson. Mechanics are what keeps people playing the game day after day after day. The only time most people bother with this ideals are when it goes against what they want, but if they favor it, a lot of people conveniently forget about those ideals.

At the end of the day Arenanet is NOT a charity, they are a business OUT to make money. If arenanet could make money any other way they would do it as well.

Honestly, Arenanet manifesto was imo based on the flawed assumption that a lot of MMO player play mmo to have and not the amount of busy work it provides for them. They based on complaints by former player and some currrent players that, cosmetic gear is not sufficient and no matter how fun the game if there is no loot progression, they wont play it.

Going back to my point, ideals are a road you follow sometimes you deviate from that road if reality is not matching your assumption. The bet wrong on the type of people that play MMO and now they are adjusting to it. You might not like it, I don't like it, but the difference is I am not threaten by someone how has +2 more stats like I said I log in have fun and log the * out.

Tl;DR
Arenanet is not a charity, it is a company for profit. They assume too much about the populace that play MMO and made their manifesto based on that and unfortunately for them they bet wrong. Manifesto are not a contract they are an ideal they hoped to hold but sometimes reality bites hard.

ADDED: companies that don't react to change end up like RIM.

Can't blame the consumers, Arenanet with all their White-Knight Reddit posts and videos got people fooled. I bought into it, after playing GW1. I won't lie. Was it stupid? Perhaps, I was too trusting. I did learn my lesson, I hope they learned there's when I took my 80$ back.

About the money-making comment, problem there is most of the WoW crowd is gone. They should worry about keeping their fans happy, the fans who bought the game for their Ideals. They just alienated the fans who stuck around while the WoW crowd left for Panda land.

But I will agree with you. Arenanet's problem is they made a game where they expected people to play for the sake of having fun. People don't want that, they ENJOY chasing stat-gains. I can't blame them for changing their beliefs on a consumer-basis, but on a principle basis, I oppose it.

But like I said, I agree with some of your points from a business point of view, even though I feel they dropped the ball with BOTH groups.

[PhoenixFlare]

Princess Fatora, on 14 November 2012 - 03:31 AM, said:

I see that you're still lying here. See, the actual difference is 5 power, 5 precision and 3 Magic Find plus whatever stats the infusion slot gives. Let's ignore the later. Magic Find is the main stat of the item, and translates to 37 in another stat for the other items. Just compare to other exotics. So, the total difference is actually 47 per item, a increase that is nearly 20% power. That's 288 for all accessoires...ignoring that necklaces have better stats, so it'll actually be more, just like the difference will be bigger for the actual gear (so a total of 600 or so).

Before you accuse someone of lying, maybe do some research beforehand. +Magic Find (and +Critical Damage) does not scale in the same way as basic attributes, so you can't just use a solid number from another attribute to add them across the board as itemization points.

Orbs
----
Opal Orb - 3% Magic Find | 14 Power | 14 Precision | T: (28 + X [~6.7/Magic Find])
Chrysocola Orb - 20 Condition Damage | 14 Power | 14 Vitality | T: (48)
Emerald Orb - 20 Precision | 14 Power | 14 Toughness | T: (48)
Beryl Orb - 2% Critical Damage | 20 Power | 14 Vitality | T: (34 + X [~7/Critical Damage])
Sapphire Orb - 20 Healing Power | 14 Power | 14 Toughness | T: (48)
Coral Orb - 20 Precision | 14 Condition Damage | 14 Power | T: (48)

Jewels
------
Opal Jewel - 4% Magic Find | 15 Power | 15 Precision | T: (30 + X [~6.2/Magic Find])
Chrysocola Jewel - 25 Condition Damage | 15 Power | 15 Vitality | T: (55)
Emerald Jewel - 25 Precision | 15 Power | 15 Toughness | T: (55)
Beryl Jewel - 3% Critical Damage | 25 Power | 15 Vitality | T: (40 + X [~5/Critical Damage])
Sapphire Jewel - 25 Healing Power | 15 Power | 15 Toughness | T: (55)
Coral Jewel - 25 Precision | 15 Condition Damage | 15 Power | T: (55)

Exotic Quarterstaves
--------------------
Explorer's - 3% Magic Find | 128 Precision | 128 Power | T: (256 + X [~60/Magic Find])
Cleric's - 179 Healing Power | 128 Power | 128 Toughness | T: (435)
Rampager's - 179 Precision | 128 Condition Damage | 128 Power | T: (435)
Berserker's - 9% Critical Damage | 179 Power | 128 Precision | T: (307 + X (~14/Critical Damage])
Knight's - 179 Toughness | 128 Power | 128 Precision | T: (435)

Exotic Boots
------------
Explorer's - 3% Magic Find | 24 Precision | 24 Power | T: (48 + X [~11/Magic Find])
Cleric's - 34 Healing Power | 24 Power | 24 Toughness | T: (82)
Rampager's - 34 Precision | 24 Condition Damage | 24 Power | T: (82)
Berserker's - 2% Critical Damage | 34 Power | 24 Precision | T: (58 + X (~12/Critical Damage])
Knight's - 34 Toughness | 24 Power | 24 Precision | T: (82)

Exotic Chest
------------
Explorer's - 3% Magic Find | 72 Precision | 72 Power | T: (144 + X [~34/Magic Find])
Cleric's - 101 Healing Power | 72 Power | 72 Toughness | T: (245)
Rampager's - 101 Precision | 72 Condition Damage | 72 Power | T: (245)
Berserker's - 5% Critical Damage | 101 Power | 72 Precision | T: (173 + X (~14/Critical Damage])
Knight's - 101 Toughness | 72 Power | 72 Precision | T: (245)

Edit: The code tag appears to screw up the formatting after all. Too lazy to fix it now. <.<

Edited by PhoenixFlare, 14 November 2012 - 04:29 AM.

[Specialz]

Xellial, on 14 November 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

Can't blame the consumers, Arenanet with all their White-Knight Reddit posts and videos got people fooled. I bought into it, after playing GW1. I won't lie. Was it stupid? Perhaps, I was too trusting. I did learn my lesson, I hope they learned there's when I took my 80$ back.

Most of the WoW crowd probably did not get their money back, so I suppose they are more likely to care about what they say than what you say. Because they now have a higher chance of coming back than compared to the 0% chance of you coming back. The sad pattern I have seen is that most of the most vengeful gamers seem to be guild wars 1 fans and based on the changes to the game, it is apparent that they did no attract a lot of them, so why bother with them if they are no longer your target audience?

if they can't rely on their based to sustain the game then there is no real reason to bother with them either and expand.

Edited by Specialz, 14 November 2012 - 04:36 AM.

[Xellial]

Specialz, on 14 November 2012 - 04:30 AM, said:

Most of the WoW crowd probably did not get their money back, so I suppose they are more likely to care about what they say than what you say. Because they now have a higher chance of coming back than you do. if they can't rely on their based to sustain the game then there is no real to bother with them either.

Well there's a problem with that. I sit here hoping that by getting a refund, and the others who have, they think about the money they're losing to the refunds. I made sure to leave a personalized comment in my refund ticket, as I know they need to read them due to the hands-on nature of the refund process.

Problem is, besides getting my refund, I don't know what to do to make them listen to my concerns. Chances are they don't even care unless I dumped a couple bills on the Gem Store.

Situations like these suck for everyone involved, I suppose. What would you do, given my situation?

[Icharios]

I think it will be interesting.

I am very much looking to test out me and my guildies skills to the limit, push ourselves further to get deeper and deeper into the new dungeon.

I am neutral about the new gear, i think you will ideally need good gear in the first place to acquire it so for all of those who already have the best possible gear (myself included) it won't be in vain.

[Anzuri]

Specialz, on 14 November 2012 - 12:57 AM, said:

2 month is a pretty long time for MMORPG players. The thing though is that guild wars 2 at released had a lot of content, sadly a lot of players drove right by it reached 80 and started complaining within a week of release how very little content there is. Unfortunate, a lot of the people that play themepark MMO need something to shoot for, the need rewards. Having gear is the easiest and most predictable way to provide "content" to sustain a significant amount of players.

You see a lot of people in this thread complaining how the game doesn't need them and yet you see them complaining how there is little to do at 80 even though they haven't fully explored the world. Getting 100% exploration != fully exploring the game.

A lot of people are going to complain about it, they are gonna threaten to quit, some will quit, others once they cool down will return and some will quit then comeback to the forums and complain how guild wars 2 isn't the game to cure cancer or whatever thing that aches their pain.

That's true. I guess its been a while since I played an mmo and I would think that 6months to a year was when they would raise the stats and before that would be just new skins etc.

You've hit the nail on the head, there is so much content in gw2 but ppl have skipped straight past. I love the starting zones but there is really no incentive to go back. When I do start levelling alts for sure I'll be back and enjoying the earlier levels but it will probably be dead by then.

Instead of adding all of this new content I think they should provide incentives for ppl to go back and build on those new areas and new DEs. I mean how many ppl have seen the new DEs they put in on Halloween? There should be an incentive to go and see these new DEs.

What I do hate is that now I am forced to go away from what I love to do (wvw) just to go upgrade my gear and get new ascended items otherwise I will be on the back foot. There was really no need. Oh well time will tell what happens.

[Specialz]

Xellial, on 14 November 2012 - 04:33 AM, said:

Well there's a problem with that. I sit here hoping that by getting a refund, and the others who have, they think about the money they're losing to the refunds. I made sure to leave a personalized comment in my refund ticket, as I know they need to read them due to the hands-on nature of the refund process.

Problem is, besides getting my refund, I don't know what to do to make them listen to my concerns. Chances are they don't even care unless I dumped a couple bills on the Gem Store.

Situations like these suck for everyone involved, I suppose. What would you do, given my situation?

By asking for a refund, you finalized all your transaction with them. It means no matter what they do, you probably wont be back as a customer, so why focus on someone that will never ever be back and instead focus on people that might be back? By asking for a refund you took yourself out of the ball game, you are not part of them and so now their objective is to make the people still playing and those w/o a permanately banned account happy.

One of the good things about Arenanet in the past has been the way they deal with feedback, if players don't want it and are being reasonable they change it, that has been the only consistent thing about arenanet between guild wars 1 and 2. Instead of acting with a cool and collected head, it seems you acted entirely out of emotions. You seem to have forgotten that in a MMO things can easily change due to their volatile nature and unlike single player games player input does shape the game in significant ways. The fact you are still posting on the forum for a game you permanent sever all ties with says a lot. Me, I paid 60 buck plus other expensive for crafting and slots.

I have spent over 500 hours playing the game ( probably the best value of anything I have bought except a car), I don't play the game as much as I used to, but that is because I like new experience doing the same thing over over is not fun. So no, i wouldn't have acted that way because this might just be a temporary thing and it seems that way based on the general response to it. Severing all times to a game that easily can be change is well ..... (insert whatever word that suit the sentence tone you want). And even if you did not like the change, you can still log in when you have absolutely nothing to do and check it out, but nooooo, you had to make a big statement. (reminds me of a coworker that quit her job yesterday after insulting everyone and our boss, then the next day comes in and tries to pretend nothing happened and then tries to justify it by saying she did not mean to quit, even after clearing her stuff. It ffunny because i remembe telling my someone that she will be back the next day once it sinks in.).

Edited by Leyana, 14 November 2012 - 05:34 AM.
No

[Dromar]

Xellial, on 14 November 2012 - 03:56 AM, said:

What would you propose they add, or change, with the game to increase playtime for people like you or I, who have done most of the dungeons and grinded out our gear? I personally would say just more content, perhaps harder content. This new dungeon idea seams nice, sans the new mini-tier + Agony system.

I personally would love to see dungeons as deep and complex as DoA/UW/FoW. The new dungeons are too Linear, the GW1 Dungeons were remarkable with their questing systems, In my opinion.

Well my own ideas before the content was announced was implementing a trait system for each new dungeon or raid that only worked within the specific dungeon. The way to obtain these traits was to collect torn pages, once you acquired all pages(lets say 20) you got the trait to start the next tier of the dungeon/raid. There would be one required trait then also other traits that give you a slight edge on certain bosses or mobs. Call it a trait treadmill that doesnt affect gear or content outside the dungeon/raid.

Don't get me wrong though. I am supporting anet until I can play the content and see how it affects the game as a whole. For all we know they could downgrade the other tiers to where exotics are equivalent to what rares were, rares to masterwork, masterwork to fine and etc. Seemingly adding a gear treadmill without higher gear tiers affecting older content and this seems to be anets philosophy because we get our levels kicked down to the level of an area so why not do it again for gear if adding a higher tier than what is max already.

I also have a huge beef with the system to acquire a legendary. Its completely unengaging and excessively grindy to the point I want to blow my brains clear out. The fact its only a skin doesnt help either. After it was revealed that legendarys would scale up to the next highest tier of gear it does seem like they have more incentive but I still find myself having no desire to obtain one unless I find one day I have 75% of the stuff to make one without ever realizing it. I suppose the scavenger hunt for the precursor could be a move in the right direction but we can only wait and see.

As for elite content I would love to see FoW and UW come back as raid content but I doubt it will happen anytime soon because the gods have left Tyria but who knows they might pop back in in the future.

[Ryden Lotus]

This was just posted on the Jade Quarry forums thirty minutes ago so I'll bring it here. According to Chris Whiteside (info relayed by Martin Kerstein), new gear wont be added to the game every, say, three months in an expectation for players to keep playing. Ascended gear is intended to be a step between Exotic and Legendary because they feel that the gap is too large without player progression. That's also one of the reasons they're slowly releasing Ascended gear. It gives players a few more progression points, for lack of a better term, before legendary.

Source:
https://forum-en.gui...Chris-Whiteside

Martin Kerstein said:

Our Studio Design Director Chris Whiteside just posted this:
“I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.
Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.
Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.
Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores."
Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

Edited by Ryden Lotus, 14 November 2012 - 05:14 AM.

[Leyana]

Let's stop dragging this discussion off topic with talk of refunds. He has made his decision and calling him out on his decision isn't constructive. On the other hand, constantly touting the fact that you are pushing for a refund is just asking for flames.

Thanks

[Darkobra]

So I got thinking. This game was never finished and ready for release. What if something like this was always meant to be coming but never announced? In that case, why didn't we get it sooner? The armour at least. And then have the infusions work as they do now and then the dungeon comes out when it's ready and so on. If Ascendant was already in the game from day one, would it have been as bad?

The issue here lies with people working to get their exotics and then having the rug pulled from under their feet.

[Doki20]

Asudementio, on 13 November 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

People also came here simply to get away from the communities of other games or the design choices of other games. A gear treadmill is a fairly standard practice and accepted by a load of players so adding something reminiscent of a short gear treadmill without necessarily implementing the full on tiered kind of gear treadmill seems like a moderate move on Anet's apart at making the game appeal to as many people as they can while still looking to keep the kind of players in their base diverse.

The design choice you mention is the gear threadmill... If if would be really THAT accepted as you state, then they would have just stayed at their WoW, Aion, SWTOR, Tera, LOTR, whatever instead of coming to a game which has NOT the kind of design what they like... But nope, they came, they whined for change, and they got it...those who didn't want it and now can just suck it up or wait for another new MMO which won't be gear based.. but which will be turned into one again by the "playing this game is the cool of the month" bandwagon hoppers.

Also, with that choice, they not simply appealed to some other audience.. They did of course, but during the process they pissed off a higher percentage with said change. If you want to appeal to a larger crowd, you just not simply throw candy at the new small group and tomatoes on the already there ones.

[Bloggi]

Ryden Lotus, on 14 November 2012 - 05:14 AM, said:

This was just posted on the Jade Quarry forums thirty minutes ago so I'll bring it here. According to Chris Whiteside (info relayed by Martin Kerstein), new gear wont be added to the game every, say, three months in an expectation for players to keep playing. Ascended gear is intended to be a step between Exotic and Legendary because they feel that the gap is too large without player progression. That's also one of the reasons they're slowly releasing Ascended gear. It gives players a few more progression points, for lack of a better term, before legendary.

Source:
https://forum-en.gui...Chris-Whiteside

The thing is, originally the only difference between legendaries and exotics was aesthetics. Exotic gear was once considered 'max stat'. So we do have a playerbase that was happy enough to work towards gearing out in full exotics and not worry about legendary gear either because they didn't like the skin, or didn't feel the urge to put that much time and effort towards working for that skin.

Now however, it's not just about skins. It's also about stats. I presume that now, because there is a difference in stats between ascended and exotic gear, that we're going to see an even greater difference in stats between legendary and exotic items. This trend is not something I consider to be desirable.