1975 replies to this topic

[Blixcoe]

Lady Rhonwyn, on 14 November 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

You're lucky in your drops then.  I've had a total of 10 fine transmutation stones.   You may get 5 from a chest with keys that hardly ever drop (only have seen 2 drop so far) and could be given out as map completion reward (have had 5 of those).  And you need 6 per armour, more if you also want to transmute your weapons to the higher stats.



That's 16 chests!  I've not even had that many keys yet....

map completion and personal storyline, mind you.
I am a crazy altoholic.
I may have gotten some from a black lion chest though. I had a black lion key drop when harvesting a plant.. lol

Edited by Blixcoe, 14 November 2012 - 02:42 PM.

[drkn]

I'm at 3 lv80 characters in full exotic gear, i'm at over 3,5k achievement points including Dungeon Master, Pet Collector and Golden (with tremendous aid from guildies, but still) - and i still find the game fun enough to upbring my fourth character. I really enjoy the GW2 dungeons, i mean - i find them enjoyable to play them just for fun, even if i don't need tokens. I often join groups just to help guildies get their stuff done if i have enough time.
And i yet have to properly get into PvP.

It's fine that someone isn't enjoying the game anymore after having done X. It's really okay - we're different, and stuff. But don't assume everyone's like that.
But for one, i know i will enjoy getting the Ascended stuff for all my toons and figuring out how to beat Fractals, with or without infusions. I know it will take time and won't be done overnight, but hey - i'm not rushing anywhere, it's not like i'm paying any subscription fee and i have to play 24/7 to get my money's worth, right?

[Ardeni]

Blixcoe, on 14 November 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

getting your exotic level 80 gear was the same deal, wasn't it?

It isn't exactly the same deal. Had the ascended armor been a part of the game from the beginning, I'm sure most people would have been fine with the idea. However, now since they are added later, people realise that they have worked for something that they thought to be the max stat gear and aren't happy to find out that they were wrong. It also gets us to doubt Arenanet's intentions on gear progression.

[dd790]

Blixcoe, on 14 November 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

getting your exotic level 80 gear was the same deal, wasn't it? Playing the game is getting the best gear and having fun doing it. What do you expect to do ''playing'' the game after you've gotten full armor? PvP?

I think alot of GW2 players come from GW1 where level 20 was where the game started but the stats stopped going up

[Blixcoe]

Ardeni, on 14 November 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

It isn't exactly the same deal. Had the ascended armor been a part of the game from the beginning, I'm sure most people would have been fine with the idea. However, now since they are added later, people realise that they have worked for something that they thought to be the max stat gear and aren't happy to find out that they were wrong. It also gets us to doubt Arenanet's intentions on gear progression.

true
I don't have full exotics though. I've always lacked financially when building currency and such. At highest, I had 10g. That's maybe why this isn't such a big deal for me.

[Ritualist]

drkn, on 14 November 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

I'm at 3 lv80 characters in full exotic gear, i'm at over 3,5k achievement points including Dungeon Master, Pet Collector and Golden (with tremendous aid from guildies, but still) - and i still find the game fun enough to upbring my fourth character. I really enjoy the GW2 dungeons, i mean - i find them enjoyable to play them just for fun, even if i don't need tokens. I often join groups just to help guildies get their stuff done if i have enough time.
And i yet have to properly get into PvP.

It's fine that someone isn't enjoying the game anymore after having done X. It's really okay - we're different, and stuff. But don't assume everyone's like that.
But for one, i know i will enjoy getting the Ascended stuff for all my toons and figuring out how to beat Fractals, with or without infusions. I know it will take time and won't be done overnight, but hey - i'm not rushing anywhere, it's not like i'm paying any subscription fee and i have to play 24/7 to get my money's worth, right?

How about if Ascended gear was the GW2 version of Vabbi gear - more expensive than 15k gear, but cheaper than FoW with no stats boost?
Would you not be able to enjoy the new content?

As for the people that are only able to enjoy the content WITH a stats boost - why the hell are you playing GW2, a game where we were told repeatedly that vertical progression will be limited and for all intents and purposes, the limit seemed to have been exotics? Why are people that are enjoying stats grind not playing a game that better caters to their grind-needs?
There's nothing wrong with a stats-grind based game. The question is, why does GW2 need to be that game?

[Elcee]

There's a few things about this that I see.

Because they're only doing a back slot and rings, slots that aren't used in PVP, my guess is that they're extremely hesitant to do any other slots in the future except maybe earrings because of screwing things up. Also, do we know if you can actually put gemstones into the "defensive infusion" slots? Because the extra stat lines on them are probably there to compensate for them and gives a very marginal advantage.

However, the most important is to get people to calm the f down. Remember how people got on their soapboxes for the first two months of the release and told critics to shut up and stop complaining when we complained about significant bugs that still exist today(underwater monsters getting stuck in ceilings lol) and if we didn't like it then we should quit? I'm not going to turn the tables like that because that was dumb, but I am going to suggest that we calm down and actually see this stuff in practice before everyone threatens to quit because of what might happen in the distant future as a result of something else in the near future.

Or at the very least, please keep it here so I don't have to listen to keep blocking one person every time I go to LA because they won't shut up about filing a lawsuit because ANet broke their promises. That also has the downside of bringing out the pre-law students and e-law professors.

[Jairyn]

Have you ever read the book If You Give a Mouse a Cookie? It's a kids book, cute. The basic premise is: if you give a mouse a cookie, he'll want a glass of milk. If you give him a glass of milk, he'll want to take a bath. If you let him take a bath, he'll want to take a nap... Etc. There's the gear grinder, and the danger of giving into them. Adding something for them to grind is just going to result in them wanting more grinding. The slippery slope is usually a fallacy, but in this case to deny it is to deny the basic psychology of acquisition.

They will never be happy. There will never be enough content. That type of player's raison d'etre is to grind through content as fast as possible and they will always need more. I'd accept ascended gear and infusions if it was "here, and no farther," but progression and the progression-minded demand the opposite.

[karekiz]

drkn, on 14 November 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

But for one, i know i will enjoy getting the Ascended stuff for all my toons and figuring out how to beat Fractals, with or without infusions. I know it will take time and won't be done overnight, but hey - i'm not rushing anywhere, it's not like i'm paying any subscription fee and i have to play 24/7 to get my money's worth, right?

To get further down you will need the infusions.  The agony is a dot that can't be cured/dodged and grows in strength.  No amount of skill of get away from it.

But pure RNG + grind + luck can.

[Terra]

Elcee, on 14 November 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

There's a few things about this that I see.

Because they're only doing a back slot and rings, slots that aren't used in PVP, my guess is that they're extremely hesitant to do any other slots in the future except maybe earrings because of screwing things up. Also, do we know if you can actually put gemstones into the "defensive infusion" slots? Because the extra stat lines on them are probably there to compensate for them and gives a very marginal advantage.

However, the most important is to get people to calm the f down. Remember how people got on their soapboxes for the first two months of the release and told critics to shut up and stop complaining when we complained about significant bugs that still exist today(underwater monsters getting stuck in ceilings lol) and if we didn't like it then we should quit? I'm not going to turn the tables like that because that was dumb, but I am going to suggest that we calm down and actually see this stuff in practice before everyone threatens to quit because of what might happen in the distant future as a result of something else in the near future.

Or at the very least, please keep it here so I don't have to listen to keep blocking one person every time I go to LA because they won't shut up about filing a lawsuit because ANet broke their promises. That also has the downside of bringing out the pre-law students and e-law professors.

They have already stated armour and weapons are coming. Also that legendary weapons will be put on par with ascended weapons.

Source: https://www.guildwar...-ascended-gear/

"This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.

As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game.  Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content."

"Legendary items were always intended to be on par with other “best-in-slot” items. So fear not, all existing Legendary weapons, which are currently on par with Exotics, will be upgraded to be on par with Ascended weapons at the same time that we add Ascended weapons to the game. Thus Legendaries will remain “best-in-slot” items."

Basically, ascended gear is their for infusion slots and also to fill the void between gear attainment of exotics (a few days) and legendaries (a few months).

Edited by Terra, 14 November 2012 - 03:25 PM.

[Lordkrall]

karekiz, on 14 November 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

To get further down you will need the infusions.  The agony is a dot that can't be cured/dodged and grows in strength.  No amount of skill of get away from it.

But pure RNG + grind + luck can.

Oh look a closed beta tester. Didn't even know those "public" betas were still active.
Maybe you could answer me if the Mursaat are involved in the Dungeon?
And if the new creatures from the trailer are connected to Bubbles?
Or heck what is Bubbles real name?

Seeing as you apparently know exactly how Agony will work you must be a tester, right?

[WhirlEVic]

My favorite part of the whole 100,000 views/10,000 replies on the official forums is the exposure to new and awesome phrases in foreign languages.  Every official language sub-forum has a big ascended armor thread.  Some choice samples:

Fr:  Bien, mais UNE chose me fait juste avoir une expression “facepalm” (below a link of linsey's original post)
De: Das irritiert mich nun auch etwas. and Ich will so etwas nicht! Ich bin stocksauer.


Anyways, you don't get to 100k views if people aren't concerned. It seems like anet is "all in" if they continue on the proposed path - there are clearly a number of players on each side of the argument.  Only time will tell if the move helps them keep more than they alienate.  One can certainly question the wisdom of making a move that is so likely to divide the player base, but who knows what the motivation is.

The sad part is that there is what should be a fun, big event and content update coming in a few days and the discussion has moved away from excitement to rage.

[skuko]

Lordkrall, on 14 November 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

Oh look a closed beta tester. Didn't even know those "public" betas were still active.
Maybe you could answer me if the Mursaat are involved in the Dungeon?
And if the new creatures from the trailer are connected to Bubbles?
Or heck what is Bubbles real name?

Seeing as you apparently know exactly how Agony will work you must be a tester, right?

oh wow, look how stupid you look now. of course the agony will be an area debuff which will tick your hp % away. it's the same crap as in LOTRO with gloom/radiance. classic gated content, nothing more. it's just an artificial way to limit how fast players can progress through the content. if you don't see this AND mock people, you just make yourself look like a fool. congrats on that.

btw. this type of debuff is already in cursed shore from time to time. a "poison" aura that is automatically applied every second or so. or i have also seen a debuff that makes you unable to heal in a certain area.

Edited by skuko, 14 November 2012 - 03:39 PM.

[Lordkrall]

skuko, on 14 November 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

oh wow, look how stupid you look now. of course the agony will be an area debuff which will tick your hp % away. it's the same crap as in LOTRO with gloom/radiance. classic gated content, nothing more. it's just an artificial way to limit how fast players can progress through the content. if you don't see this AND mock people, you just make yourself look like a fool. congrats on that.

And yet we have NO information about it.

I for one read it as an special ability mobs (bosses?) have just like in GW1. And until anything else is said I have no reason to assume anything else.

[skuko]

Lordkrall, on 14 November 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

And yet we have NO information about it.

I for one read it as an special ability mobs (bosses?) have just like in GW1. And until anything else is said I have no reason to assume anything else.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Agony

not enough for you?

[Jairyn]

We know agony:

* deals damage in % of health (degen)
* cannot be removed as other conditions
* increases in intensity, requiring increasingly powerful infusions to mitigate

Who cares if it's only a boss ability? It is a stat grind, content funnel, and gear check. What marvelous unknown is going to change that (particularly the 3rd point)?

[badra al duun]

I apologize if this was answered someplace between page 30 and 50 /o\, but is it safe to assume that this new ascended gear works outside the fractal dungeon?  That is really the answer I need to make my decisions on.

(I did read the updates, etc, I'm still not sure)

Edited by badra al duun, 14 November 2012 - 03:54 PM.

[Heart Collector]

Just reposting this, even though it's on the front page of the Guru!

“I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.

Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores."
Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

It lays some of my own concerns to rest, but only time will tell if it proves to be a good thing in the long run.

Edited by Heart Collector, 14 November 2012 - 03:57 PM.

[Wieland1]

Blixcoe, on 14 November 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

Why so must hate? If you have an alternative to get better gear why not just act with it? Are you all lazy bums or something that can't handle a little gear progression?
I don't understand this community

In itself, there is nothing wrong with wanting gear progression. There are very enojoyable ways to do it, and a lot of very sucessful games pull it off nicely.

The problem is, that is not the game that was explicitely (the manifesto, lots of articles and interviews) and implicitely (the heritage of GW1) presented to us by ArenaNet before this week's announcement. It may not seem a problem for people who jumped into GW2 recently, without having followed all the hype during all those years, but for people who did, this is quite a big and unexpected change of direction. Hence all the outcry.

And don't assume things about people. I'd guess that many of the people that are actually up in arms against the idea of item progression, are, like me, people who thouroughly played and invested themselves in the "endgame" with past MMOs, and are sick/burned out of it. Not "lazy bums" unable or unwilling to do the effort. Quite the contrary, people who have been there, done that, and wished for a real change. We can handle the extra effort, heck, many of us will do it anyway. It doesn't mean we have to agree with it

[deitiesforce]

Anet: we will never implement any new gear because we don't wanna create a gear treadmill

Later, anet: oh people are bored so we decided to just add one tier

We have every single right to get mad, it's not even about the armor, it's about them lying to us right in our face. You can argue is only one time thing, but they already lied once how can you expect them not to lie to us again. There are a lot of stuff to keep players entertain, they should spend more time on other stuff like housing, mini activities, gvg,RA... For those people that telling me they have commander title, 100% complete... Do I look like I care just because you don't have content to play. Progression can be made without adding gear and it should be that way because that's what they told us. I honestly don't mind that they add new gear but that's not a game that I wanna play. What pissed me off is how they advertised it and it was misleading. Tbh this one time thing may not be a big deal. But me lying to our face is.

Edited by deitiesforce, 14 November 2012 - 04:17 PM.

[RedStar]

skuko, on 14 November 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Agony

not enough for you?

And what do we learn with that ? That it's a condition that takes away a certain percentage of your health and that it cannot be removed with condition removal. It's safe to assume that anyone ho read the article understood that.

But how is it applied ? By a monster or as an environment effect ?
Does it have a duration or does it last until you die ?

[ogrejd]

So, I wonder which of the ANet reps is lying?  Lindsey saying that this is only the first level of Ascended (ie, gear treadmill) or Chris saying there is no gear treadmill?  Can't have it both ways.

[Lol Lol Lol Guy]

Wieland1, on 14 November 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

In itself, there is nothing wrong with wanting gear progression. There are very enojoyable ways to do it, and a lot of very sucessful games pull it off nicely.

The problem is, that is not the game that was explicitely (the manifesto, lots of articles and interviews) and implicitely (the heritage of GW1) presented to us by ArenaNet before this week's announcement. It may not seem a problem for people who jumped into GW2 recently, without having followed all the hype during all those years, but for people who did, this is quite a big and unexpected change of direction. Hence all the outcry.

And don't assume things about people. I'd guess that many of the people that are actually up in arms against the idea of item progression, are, like me, people who thouroughly played and invested themselves in the "endgame" with past MMOs, and are sick/burned out of it. Not "lazy bums" unable or unwilling to do the effort. Quite the contrary, people who have been there, done that, and wished for a real change. We can handle the extra effort, heck, many of us will do it anyway. It doesn't mean we have to agree with it

As someone who has been following Gw2 since it was announced, I fail to see the big deal. They changed their stance but ONLY so the game would have more replayability. They are trying to make it more fun. You all take this as a personal attack it is so ridiculous. Would you rather them NOT add new content and ideas because they are so stubborn and rooted in their original ways? You all
Are crying before its even been released. I think all the whiners will rellalize it's not the en of te world. (FYI this isn't a personal
attack on you. Unlike most of those opposed to it, you seem to be calm an self controlled which I respect and would give you free cookies if I could!)

[indure]

Please tell me if I got the information wrong, but after both posts from Anet it still seems like they are going to implement a slow building gear treadmill and in November they will add content that is gated by said gear. I can live with a slow gear progression depending on how it is implemented, although it goes against their original core design goals, but I'm very weary of gating content around gear progression and not player skill.

[Jairyn]

Unfortunately, ANet's communication is deliberately meager and vague, but I come to the same general conclusion you do. It's "not a gear treadmill" because it's an infusion gate/treadmill, and they'll try to add gear so slowly we don't notice. Of course, it is worth noting that infusions seemingly apply only to Fractals of the Mists. Because doing the same dungeon over and over to accumulate stats so you can repeat the dungeon more sounds like the very greatest and most innovative idea of fun I've ever heard.

Edited by Jairyn, 14 November 2012 - 04:53 PM.

[Draugadan]

ogrejd, on 14 November 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

So, I wonder which of the ANet reps is lying?  Lindsey saying that this is only the first level of Ascended (ie, gear treadmill) or Chris saying there is no gear treadmill?  Can't have it both ways.

Neither. There will be more ascended items, but it won't be a "gear treadmill". It will be "item progression" and it will be God-inspired, fun and in no way contradictory of their game design philosophies. Oh, the innovation, it burns my mind!

[drkn]

Quote

How about if Ascended gear was the GW2 version of Vabbi gear - more expensive than 15k gear, but cheaper than FoW with no stats boost?
Would you not be able to enjoy the new content?

Of course i would - my internal 'need' to get stuff just because it's there made me fill my HoM full except for the uber rare minipets. I owned all the elite sets to be found in GW1, all the weapons and so on; i also collected all the annual minipets just because they were there to get. And i enjoy it all, through and through, from my rough beginnings full of awe when seeing someone in a 15k armor up to buying my own obsi set and displaying my own GWAMM.
It took me some time, but as i said, i'm in no rush with getting the Ascended gear in GW2. I do not have to be able to farm Fractals on day 1, however i am getting a new goal to pursuit and that alone is exciting.

Quote

To get further down you will need the infusions.  The agony is a dot that can't be cured/dodged and grows in strength.  No amount of skill of get away from it.

But pure RNG + grind + luck can.

Magic Forge recipes are not RNG or luck. We already know we will be able to get Ascended stuff and infusions from the Forge recipes, aka with no RNG involved; some grind - possibly, if you absolutely must get those new items on day one. I don't, but in the end, i want to have them on all my toons - but i can take my time and enjoy the time spent chasing the rabbit.


I am amazed how many tears people can shed about something they haven't yet seen in the game, yet they already 'know' how will it turn out based on OTHER games.
As i said earlier, it's not GW2 that's tainted by gear treadmills or gear lockouts - not yet, not until it's proven to be by actual in-game situation; it's the players coming from other games that are paranoid about things they didn't like in game X and see shadows of those things in every corner.

[skuko]

drkn, on 14 November 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

As i said earlier, it's not GW2 that's tainted by gear treadmills or gear lockouts - not yet, not until it's proven to be by actual in-game situation

after that it will be too late.

[Ghostwing]

Lordkrall, on 14 November 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

Thats the thing though: They have NEVER said that Exotics would always be the gear with the best stats. That is just what people assumed.

Fair enough. Though, the way they had it set up, with exotics at the top on release and legendaries matching those stats, in addition to not announcing "there will be one more tier" until 2 months after the game came out is still at the very least misleading. Again, if I had known there was going to be another higher tier that would be attainable without exotics just a few weeks away in the future, I would not have spent all that time getting exotics. And now that they clarified there will be no more additional tiers (for awhile anyway, who knows what expansions will bring) it doesn't seem so bad.

I remember sup vigors and absorptions actually costing a lot when GW1 first came out, and they weren't worth buying if you weren't hardcore because they provided a negligible difference. I imagine it will be negligible with ascended gear--outside of the new dungeon. But at least in GW1 you knew the plat you dropped into those runes were for the best of the best from the very beginning.

Personally, I don't even understand why they need to introduce another tier at 80. Just make a new dungeon that give new skins, have the current legendaries as hard to obtain as they are now, and make new legendaries that are easier to obtain as well. So the current legendaries would be the FOW armor equivalent, and the new stuff is like Vabbi, etc. Why do they feel the need to increase the stats, even if they're negligible? Let us infuse our current exotic armor to add the ascended protection mechanic, and just leave the numbers alone.

Edited by Ghostwing, 14 November 2012 - 06:28 PM.

[drkn]

skuko, on 14 November 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

after that it will be too late.

And now it serves something, right? Shows true concern about the game you love and don't want to see broken, hope to amass and force devs into doing/not doing something, etc?
Before it's a real problem, you're just a doomsayer.
When it is a real problem, then we can storm-whine ANet and demand to change it back or to make it not game-breaking. Too soon for that, guys.