1975 replies to this topic

[Hellspawn2323]

Martiniam1, on 14 November 2012 - 02:19 AM, said:

You missed the whole point of guild wars 1 then. You have plenty of expensive good looking items to work towards that will still seperate us. So I shouldn't be able to be strong because I have real life to deal with? This was the entire foundation to guild wars 1 and is what I beleive made it great. Skill > time in game.

Skill??? what skill every piece of content in GW2 including the explorable modes of dungeons are always the same fight stategy.

#1 Roll Face Across Keyboard
#2 Boss Dies
#3 Obtain Crappy Loot
#4 Rinse and Repeat For No Reason!!!

If thats the Skill your talking about then you go ahead and enjoy that.

[Var]

Hellspawn2323, on 15 November 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

#1 Roll Face Across Keyboard

I'm pretty sure that if you did that against any boss encounter in the easiest dungeon (AC) would get you nothing short of killed in a most brutal fashion. Heck, you'd fail to idiot-check-Kohler in ten seconds. Yes, many bosses are poorly put together either with bullshit mechanics or too much health to wade through, but they certainly don't let you roll your face across the keyboard.

[viespea]

Hellspawn2323, on 15 November 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

Skill??? what skill every piece of content in GW2 including the explorable modes of dungeons are always the same fight stategy.

#1 Roll Face Across Keyboard
#2 Boss Dies
#3 Obtain Crappy Loot
#4 Rinse and Repeat For No Reason!!!

If thats the Skill your talking about then you go ahead and enjoy that.

Try that with Subject Alpha, i dare you :-)

[RedStar]

To everyone doing calculations, remember that ascended items already have a rune/sigil already in it. So if you want to compare the two, don't forget to put those runes/sigils in your exotics.

Hellspawn2323, on 15 November 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

Skill??? what skill every piece of content in GW2 including the explorable modes of dungeons are always the same fight stategy.

#1 Roll Face Across Keyboard

You are over exaggerating.

If you aren't you either never did a dungeon or your other teammates carried you because you were basically useless since you kept dying.
That reminds me of a guy that came with us in CM path 3. He was the most insufferable player we have ever met. We had to resist the urge to kick him because we didn't want to be fall on his level. Anyway, after countless remarks along the lines of "You guys suck" or "I do this dungeon in 20 minutes with my guild !" we finally got to the boss.
Now for those that never did it, the boss is a centaur. In order for him to become hostile you have to kill 3 bandits that are near him. The guy jumped in the water near the centaur and when he saw that we were killing those bandits, he got even more insufferable and said that killing those bandits was useless...clearly showing that he was so bad that his guild probably told him to go in the water while they killed the NPCs without him realizing it...

Now a lot of things in dungeons are pretty easy once you get to know it work. Dodge AoE, dodge the attacks, don't attack when the boss has retaliation...And then there are special patterns that once you memorized them makes it easier. But then again...that's how it works in most game...memorize the pattern and observe what the boss is doing.
And resurrect your teammates if you can do without dying.

[jirayasan]

For all the whiners.

- Infusions are for the new dungeon endgame, doesn't affect rest of the Pv or PvP..
- Ascended gear can be obtainable through WvWvW and normal PvE in the future.
- Ascended gear is between Exotic and Legendary in "power". Rare - Exotic - Ascended - Legendary.
- The new endgame dungeon will be updated in the future with more content.
- The progress system in GW2 endgame is Infusions.

[Red_Falcon]

geala, on 15 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

Could you show me the maths behind? If we look at the rings from the exotics perspective, we see 5 power, 5 precision and +3% magic find more on the ascended. An exotic ring with jewel has about 218 points on it, an exotic ring with +magic find has 126 points on it. That equals + 7 magic find to 92 points, which equals +1% to about 13 points. That is a 49 points advantage of the ascended ring (5 + 5 + 3 x 13).

If the other items have a similar relation (which they might not perhaps) and would have the some amount of stats (which they will not, cause there are differences), a person with 13 ascended items will be 637 points better than a person with exotic items. That is too much to be without consequences for fights. Maybe my calculation is wrong however.

It's simple, just like all exotic pieces have 13% higher stats than their rare equivalents, ascended pieces will have 8% more than exotics.
It's how items work in GW2, I don't see why Anet would take a completely different route when coding the ascended tier compared to all other tiers.
In my calc, I added 8% to what my current exotic set gives (including defense), and I ended up with those numbers.

Obviously, 80pow 60prec 110ar are pretty much non-factors in a fight.
What will make a noticiable difference will be the new Ascended weapons; weapon damage range is a much bigger factor than stats in the damage formula, aka (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target's Armor).
In order of importance, what determines the final damage the most is the skill coefficient (a little +0.1 gives a large damage bonus) which only devs can modify, followed by weapon damage and finally, to a much lesser extent, power (since it's the most beefy stat).

We see for a fact, in game, that there is little difference between a char with exotic weps and rare armor/jewels, and a full exotic character, while there is a noticiable gap between a full rare char and a full exotic char due to weapon damage range.
Until ascended weapons are released, there is no need to upgrade from exotics for WvW purposes.

[Chabby]

jirayasan, on 15 November 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

For all the whiners.

- Infusions are for the new dungeon endgame, doesn't affect rest of the Pv or PvP..
- Ascended gear can be obtainable through WvWvW and normal PvE in the future.
- Ascended gear is between Exotic and Legendary in "power". Rare - Exotic - Ascended - Legendary.
- The new endgame dungeon will be updated in the future with more content.
- The progress system in GW2 endgame is Infusions.

Still, if one expect to get ascended soon, he will be forced to do a hard dungeon OR pay the price (above 100 gold?) on the Trading post.

Exotics were a good balance. Easy to get, just take time. Not too expensive, not too cheap. Exotic sets at all prices. It was accessible to everybody that way.

There were no need to bring in ascended for the new dungeon. People who spent a good amount of gold in exotics (especially exotic dungeon set) find themselves forced to grind more in order to get eventually another set. :/
I just have 3 gold left because I spent the gold I had (And the time to play I had) in an exotic set only to find out in a blog that, WAIT, there is more out of the blue! Yay? A new tier that will cost thousand of things? So much for the casual players.

PS: Like Corvindi, I've lost count of the amount of people using name-calling instead of just being civilized and use proper terms for people who disagree with an idea. What a beautiful world we live in.

Edited by Chabby, 15 November 2012 - 06:16 PM.

[Pipples]

Devious, on 13 November 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

Again, the game has to please both sides, more hardcore people don't enjoy easymode stuff that casuals like.

You cannot please both sides. Can't be done. I've seen MMOs try since WoW came out and EQ1 stopped being the big dog. Every one of them seems to have failed.

What many developers fail to look at is the social aspect of gaming, which is something they cannot control, only plan for. The problem with the gear grind issue is not so much the grind itself (because many MMOs now make most gear incredibly easy to obtain) but the players who DEMAND you have X gear to do Y activity, even though Y activity was done with lesser gear before.

[Jason Seven]

Wow, you people don't get it do you? You really think ArenaNet didn't realize by now that MMOs MUST have gear treadmills and gear gating systems? Like I said before, gathering dumb looking skins for nothing is but lazy and cheap game design. MMORPGs have to be about making your character stronger with better gear! I'm so glad ArenaNet went down this route now. Everyone who is displeased: please leave us players don't want crybabies like you in our midsts. We want this and we finally got it!

[dd790]

Jason Seven, on 15 November 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

Wow, you people don't get it do you? You really think ArenaNet didn't realize by now that MMOs MUST have gear treadmills and gear gating systems? Like I said before, gathering dumb looking skins for nothing is but lazy and cheap game design. MMORPGs have to be about making your character stronger with better gear! I'm so glad ArenaNet went down this route now. Everyone who is displeased: please leave us players don't want crybabies like you in our midsts. We want this and we finally got it!

Why? Why must MMOs have gear treadmills and gear gating systems? You seem to state this as fact but I can't help think that it is your opinion.

You seem to go on to suggest that adding new looking armour is some how easier than changing a couple of data values and calling it new. Yes we would all love to see some new and better skins for armour, but why do they need different stats to not be "lazy game design"

MMORPGs don't have to be about anything. There is a difference between what has to be and what you want there to be.

People who are displeased are GW1 players, players who got the best stats at the end of the tutorial (F and NF anyway) and played a full game without needing stat progression to keep them going. Telling these players to just leave so you new players can enjoy your mainstream MMO is a kick in the face to all the GW1 players without whom GW2 would not exist.

I can't help feeling that in the long run Anet would be better off listening to players who stayed with them for 7 years through GW1's good times and bad, rather than the players quitting after less than 3 months.

GW2 wanted to be different, that is what Anet set out to achieve, anything that deviates from the mainstream is going to have a trying time at first while it establishes itself and all you can do through that time is show you can stand by your principles. Anet going back on their principles so soon is, to many people, a show of weakness and indecision over what they want GW2 to be in the future, and this is a worrying thing indeed.

Edited by dd790, 15 November 2012 - 05:38 PM.

[Nephele]

I'll wait and see what Firefall is like before I do anything crazy like sending all my gold to a stranger. But as I love making alts, I was really hoping this would be the one MMO I could actually have a lot of relevant alts without grinding my ass off. Guess not.

[RedStar]

Jason Seven, on 15 November 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

Wow, you people don't get it do you? You really think ArenaNet didn't realize by now that MMOs MUST have gear treadmills and gear gating systems? Like I said before, gathering dumb looking skins for nothing is but lazy and cheap game design. MMORPGs have to be about making your character stronger with better gear! I'm so glad ArenaNet went down this route now. Everyone who is displeased: please leave us players don't want crybabies like you in our midsts. We want this and we finally got it!

There has to be a MMORPG for everyone. Some people play to get cosmetic items while other play go improve your character. If your goal was to keep on improving your character, you must have disliked GW2 for quite a long time since anyone looking to continuously improve their character got their exotics quite fast. And you'll get your ascended armor quite fast if that's your sole goal.
Leaving unsatisfied for quite some them until they add another tier, and who knows when that will be ?

Another way to progress your character, which I think a lot of GW2 players would have loved, would have been adding new Personal Story quests. Not necessarily quests that continue the story after the fight with Zhaitan, but more quests that are given to you by NPCs in your personal instance and that have some kind of repercussion on your character.

[Asudementio]

Chabby, on 15 November 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:

Still, if one expect to get ascended soon, he will be forced to do a hard dungeon OR pay the price (above 100 gold?) on the Trading post.

Exotics were a good balance. Easy to get, just take time. Not too expensive, not too cheap. Exotic sets at all prices. It was accessible to everybody that way.

There were no need to bring in ascended for the new dungeon. People who spent a good amount of gold in exotics (especially exotic dungeon set) find themselves forced to grind more in order to get eventually another set. :/
I just have 3 gold left because I spent the gold I had (And the time to play I had) in an exotic set only to find out in a blog that, WAIT, there is more out of the blue! Yay?

PS: Like Corvindi, I've lost count of the amount of people using name-calling instead of just being civilized and use proper terms for people who disagree with an idea. What a beautiful world we live in.

Take your time with the gold and the acquisition of ascended gear then..... it is supposed to be a level between exotic and legendary and used in a dungeon that is supposed to have long term relevancy. You won't be at a great enough disadvantage from lacking the incremental pieces of ascended gear as it is released so just work on it as you would work for a legendary. Or if you don't want to work on it then don't; use your exotics and even then you will still be competitive just not optimal.

Pipples, on 15 November 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

You cannot please both sides. Can't be done. I've seen MMOs try since WoW came out and EQ1 stopped being the big dog. Every one of them seems to have failed.

What many developers fail to look at is the social aspect of gaming, which is something they cannot control, only plan for. The problem with the gear grind issue is not so much the grind itself (because many MMOs now make most gear incredibly easy to obtain) but the players who DEMAND you have X gear to do Y activity, even though Y activity was done with lesser gear before.

You can definitely appease both crowds but you have to sell it correctly.

Edited by Leyana, 15 November 2012 - 11:12 PM.
No

[licho]

Im one of "keep calm, wait for release". Drama is pointless, drama before change hitting live is even more riducolus.

That said, so far it looks bad for me. I like the idea of getting best gear ever. And motivacion of being unique (and awesome) skin as long term goal is enought for me. Im simply not loot hound, and get insulted with other MMO when at some point my gear is good that it dosnt matter if i have any skills or just roll my face over keyboard.

I afraid this will be the case here, Ascended and new Legendaries will be so good that bringing them into dungeon will be overkill.

I would mind it much more of Ascended was not exacly more powerful, but lets say more customable, or having more special perks than normal exotic.

Also im kind of altoholic, but im not exited on the though of grinding all cool stuff for all my alts.

[Asudementio]

Jason Seven, on 15 November 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

Wow, you people don't get it do you? You really think ArenaNet didn't realize by now that MMOs MUST have gear treadmills and gear gating systems? Like I said before, gathering dumb looking skins for nothing is but lazy and cheap game design. MMORPGs have to be about making your character stronger with better gear! I'm so glad ArenaNet went down this route now. Everyone who is displeased: please leave us players don't want crybabies like you in our midsts. We want this and we finally got it!

I'd argue that aestethic grinds are more challenging design wise because you can only recycle mechanics for the horizontal gear plateau so many times. With vertical progression you gate player progression so you can recycle a lot of mechanics with less player discontent. Both horizontal and vertical progression are lazy to a degree but i think a healthy infusion of both will yield the best game.

licho, on 15 November 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

Im one of "keep calm, wait for release". Drama is pointless, drama before change hitting live is even more riducolus.

That said, so far it looks bad for me. I like the idea of getting best gear ever. And motivacion of being unique (and awesome) skin as long term goal is enought for me. Im simply not loot hound, and get insulted with other MMO when at some point my gear is good that it dosnt matter if i have any skills or just roll my face over keyboard.

I afraid this will be the case here, Ascended and new Legendaries will be so good that bringing them into dungeon will be overkill.

I would mind it much more of Ascended was not exacly more powerful, but lets say more customable, or having more special perks than normal exotic.

Also im kind of altoholic, but im not exited on the though of grinding all cool stuff for all my alts.

The speculation you are engaging in is warranted but the increase in strength seems so negligible that i am not concerned with the strength of ascended gear in say explorables.

[FiachSidhe]

I'll have to wait and see. Honestly I couldn't care less, if this patch gives me fun new stuff to do.

[Runkleford]

Jason Seven, on 15 November 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

Wow, you people don't get it do you? You really think ArenaNet didn't realize by now that MMOs MUST have gear treadmills and gear gating systems? Like I said before, gathering dumb looking skins for nothing is but lazy and cheap game design. MMORPGs have to be about making your character stronger with better gear! I'm so glad ArenaNet went down this route now. Everyone who is displeased: please leave us players don't want crybabies like you in our midsts. We want this and we finally got it!

This crybaby wants to know how you supposedly get stronger in the game when you're always scaled down to the level of your enemies. The funny thing is that stat progression is the true "lazy and cheap game design" that you claim cosmetic skin collecting is. And muppets like you fall for it when all stat progression does is add an artificial motivation for you to grind some more.

Let's face it. You just like grinding. Others don't because they don't like mindless tedium or they just have a life. ANET is screwing up their game if they are listening to players like you.

[Vancext]

If anyone feels like they have to grind, it means the underlying game mechanics have failed to be fun. I don't see a problem with adding new stats, so long as the process toward getting those stats is achievable and entertaining.

Ascended gear is not the problem -- the problem is whether or not the process for getting Ascended gear will be fun, and that's yet to be seen. People anticipate it won't be (and fairly) because the process for getting many of the exotic sets in game right now is not much fun. Hopefully this Fractals dungeon will so incredible that it will remove all perception of grind, and getting Ascended equipment will just be a happy byproduct of many fun hours just playing the dungeon for its own sake.

Edited by Vancext, 15 November 2012 - 06:17 PM.

[Runkleford]

Vancext, on 15 November 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

If anyone ever feels like they have to grind, it means the underlying game mechanics have failed to be fun. I don't see a problem with adding new stats, so long as the process toward getting those stats is achievable and entertaining.

Ascended gear is not the problem -- the problem is whether or not the process for getting Ascended gear will be fun, and that's yet to be seen. People anticipate it won't be (and fairly) because the process for getting many of the exotic sets in game right now is not much fun. Hopefully this Fractals dungeon will so incredible that it will remove all perception of grind, and getting Ascended equipment will just be a happy byproduct of many hours of addictive fun.

While I agree with some of your post, you forget that one of the problems we have currently is that for those who worked hard for exotics thinking that it was the last tier will have to do it again for ascendent whereas they might have skipped exotics and saved the time and gold for ascendent gear instead (much like how people don't go out of their way to grind for rares or masterworks). So there's that initial grind where it could have been avoided had this been implemented in release or just make infusions an upgrade to any armor. There's really no need for  higher stats except to please the grinders.

Edited by Runkleford, 15 November 2012 - 06:24 PM.

[Corvindi]

Lydeck, on 15 November 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

So, essentially, if they removed it's additional effects and relegated it to Exotic level in WvW (leaving its bonuses in PvE only), there'd be no issues?

Correct as far as I am concerned.  Better yet, they should do with WvW what they have done with sPvP and make everyone on par from day 1 with the same choices in skills and gear.

I do understand that some people might not like that solution, either.  Downscaling would certainly be a fair compromise, or offer the chance to get the gear by doing WvW with the same time investment as the dungeon runners and starting from day 1, not in some vaguely promised future.

Since grinding badges for gear in WvW is already far more difficult than grinding dungeons for tokens to get the same gear and also since, from what I understand, WvW badge gear is very limited on stat choices, I very much doubt Arenanet wants players earning their top end gear this way.

Or perhaps they didn't realize what a huge draw WvW would be and they planned it out poorly?

Edited by Leyana, 15 November 2012 - 11:12 PM.
No

[AureliusRex]

Vancext, on 15 November 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

If anyone feels like they have to grind, it means the underlying game mechanics have failed to be fun. I don't see a problem with adding new stats, so long as the process toward getting those stats is achievable and entertaining.

Ascended gear is not the problem -- the problem is whether or not the process for getting Ascended gear will be fun, and that's yet to be seen. People anticipate it won't be (and fairly) because the process for getting many of the exotic sets in game right now is not much fun. Hopefully this Fractals dungeon will so incredible that it will remove all perception of grind, and getting Ascended equipment will just be a happy byproduct of many fun hours just playing the dungeon for its own sake.

What's the definition of acheivable?  1-2 hours a day to keep up with content releases?  Seems pretty viable to most people until you factor in alts.  I was kind of looking forward to being able to max out all my character slots in this game.  Will I need to log in 5-10 hours a day to keep them from falling behind?  And if they are easy enough to obtain to do that, how is that going to keep the hardcores happy?

Anet has left too many questions unanswered and that makes people wary.  It is not a good idea to have a customer base that is wary of you.

[Grashopa]

I voted yes and yes because i was getting sick of al the bitching about how legendaries are too hard to get and there is zero progression, but also i beleive there should be something in that huge void between reaching 80 and getting a legendary... and I do beleive that Arenanet is not going to be adding any new tiers in the future.

[Dove]

No.

Exotics need to remain the "affordable" max stat tier -- that's what they were sold as, with Legendary being simply a cosmetic upgrade, and not an essential one for achieving max performance.

I'm fine with adding vanity items, and whether or not these exist in a separate item rarity tier is irrelevant. What I care about is max gear becoming more unattainable, and people who thought they were set now being screwed by a gear treadmill, however "minor" it may be.

I am fine with including Ascended items upon just one condition: you can achieve the exact same stats with Exotics as you can with Ascended and Legendary.

[Asudementio]

Corvindi, on 15 November 2012 - 06:42 PM, said:

You are of the opinion that my views and the views of others are extreme, and that's fair, but failing to be civil in discussion is still a sign that you cannot defend your viewpoints with facts and reasoning.



Correct as far as I am concerned.  Better yet, they should do with WvW what they have done with sPvP and make everyone on par from day 1 with the same choices in skills and gear.

I do understand that some people might not like that solution, either.  Downscaling would certainly be a fair compromise, or offer the chance to get the gear by doing WvW with the same time investment as the dungeon runners and starting from day 1, not in some vaguely promised future.

Since grinding badges for gear in WvW is already far more difficult than grinding dungeons for tokens to get the same gear and also since, from what I understand, WvW badge gear is very limited on stat choices, I very much doubt Arenanet wants players earning their top end gear this way.

Or perhaps they didn't realize what a huge draw WvW would be and they planned it out poorly?

It is not necessarily a sign that the opposing stance cannot be defended with facts and reasoning. There are instances when regardless of the facts you can present the view point you  argue against is supported due to say emotional or investment ties. At that point some will use name calling in an effort to discredit or diminish the viewpoint they are against because once you substantiate your position from a highly emotional perspective you get caught up in a bidding war of emotions.

Dove, on 15 November 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

No.

Exotics need to remain the "affordable" max stat tier -- that's what they were sold as, with Legendary being simply a cosmetic upgrade, and not an essential one for achieving max performance.

I'm fine with adding vanity items, and whether or not these exist in a separate item rarity tier is irrelevant. What I care about is max gear becoming more unattainable, and people who thought they were set now being screwed by a gear treadmill, however "minor" it may be.

I am fine with including Ascended items upon just one condition: you can achieve the exact same stats with Exotics as you can with Ascended and Legendary.

The point of ascended is to offer a degree of vertical progression to offer a greater sense of accomplishment between exotics and legendaries. Ascended gear would be arbitrary if it was the same as exotic gear. I am a fan of horizontal progression but they are adding ascended gear to lessen the progression gap between exotic and legendaries which i support. Additional gearing objectives beyond the aesthetics is nice to have around because it allows me to progress on multiple fronts. I would have been happy with some cool skins instead of trivial stat increases, but Anet wants to do it this way so i'll settle.

[karekiz]

Lordkrall, on 14 November 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

Seeing as you apparently know exactly how Agony will work you must be a tester, right?

I can read.  They posted about it ya know:

New Condition: Agony

In the upcoming Fractals of the Mists dungeon, we’ll introduce a new monster condition called Agony.
This extremely dangerous condition ticks percentages of player health away and can’t be cleansed by normal means. Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must. The only way to mitigate Agony damage is by building up resistance through Infusions, a new type of upgrade component that can be acquired in the Mystic Forge.

There I made it easier to read so you don't get lost.  Happy reading.

Edited by karekiz, 15 November 2012 - 07:35 PM.

[Corvindi]

Asudementio, on 15 November 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

It is not necessarily a sign that the opposing stance cannot be defended with facts and reasoning. There are instances when regardless of the facts you can present the view point you  argue against is supported due to say emotional or investment ties. At that point some will use name calling in an effort to discredit or diminish the viewpoint they are against because once you substantiate your position from a highly emotional perspective you get caught up in a bidding war of emotions.

In my experience insults are usually a sign that someone is at a loss for how to defend their own point of view.  But it's true that sometimes the person is at a loss to do so because no matter how they defend their point, the other side defends theirs equally vigorously and there is simply no common ground or compromise that either one is willing to debate toward.  Regardless, it's a sign of frustration because it's obviously not helpful.

Edit:  Admittedly, we might all be experiencing some frustration with this debate in part because we all know we can't really affect it.  The decision is not in our hands.  Even if every poster in every thread on this subject agreed to a compromise, ArenaNet could and probably would disregard it.

Edited by Corvindi, 15 November 2012 - 07:37 PM.

[Vancext]

AureliusRex, on 15 November 2012 - 06:42 PM, said:

What's the definition of acheivable?  1-2 hours a day to keep up with content releases?  Seems pretty viable to most people until you factor in alts.  I was kind of looking forward to being able to max out all my character slots in this game.  Will I need to log in 5-10 hours a day to keep them from falling behind?  And if they are easy enough to obtain to do that, how is that going to keep the hardcores happy?

Anet has left too many questions unanswered and that makes people wary.  It is not a good idea to have a customer base that is wary of you.

Well, how much you want to play is up to you (if you like the game enough to play through five times that's you,) although I do agree that achievable is a relative term. I'm just saying that if the process of getting gear is fun, getting it should not inspire dread. In other words, playing a game should never feel like work, and if it does, they are not designing the game well enough.

If the new dungeon is so addictively awesome that I can't get enough, hopefully I'll want to get 20 characters' worth of gear from it.

Edited by Vancext, 15 November 2012 - 08:41 PM.

[Runkleford]

Asudementio, on 15 November 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

The point of ascended is to offer a degree of vertical progression to offer a greater sense of accomplishment between exotics and legendaries. Ascended gear would be arbitrary if it was the same as exotic gear. I am a fan of horizontal progression but they are adding ascended gear to lessen the progression gap between exotic and legendaries which i support. Additional gearing objectives beyond the aesthetics is nice to have around because it allows me to progress on multiple fronts. I would have been happy with some cool skins instead of trivial stat increases, but Anet wants to do it this way so i'll settle.

I disagree that Ascended gear would be arbitrary if it was the same as exotic gear. Look at Legendaries. They take a crazy amount of effort to get and are the same as exotics (currently anyway) yet they are very sought after and not arbitrary at all in the eyes of the community. Ascendent gear could easily have non-stat progression that isn't just a fancy skin and effects, there could be a number of fun stuff added to Ascendent gear. Having it be a stat progression is the most boring and unimaginative progression that's been done to death.

Even if ANET wanted Ascended gear to be a vertical progression instead of horizontal, they could have just left it the same as exotics but have the added benefit of the infusion slot to mitigate the condition Agony. The stat increases don't make sense in the current philosophy that ANET had been touting from the very beginning. But here we are. I can live with it but only up to a certain point.

Edited by Runkleford, 15 November 2012 - 08:45 PM.

[FiachSidhe]

Runkleford, on 15 November 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

While I agree with some of your post, you forget that one of the problems we have currently is that for those who worked hard for exotics thinking that it was the last tier will have to do it again for ascendent whereas they might have skipped exotics and saved the time and gold for ascendent gear instead (much like how people don't go out of their way to grind for rares or masterworks). So there's that initial grind where it could have been avoided had this been implemented in release or just make infusions an upgrade to any armor. There's really no need for  higher stats except to please the grinders.

No one should ever play a game with a persistent and ever evolving world, expecting anything, to be the final anything.

[AureliusRex]

Vancext, on 15 November 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

Well, how much you want to play is up to you (if you like the game enough to play through five times that's you,) although I do agree that achievable is a relative term. I'm just saying that if the process of getting gear is fun, getting it should not inspire dread. In other words, playing a game should never feel like work, and if it does, they are not designing the game well enough.

If the new dungeon is so addictively awesome that I can't get enough, hopefully I'll want to get 20 characters' worth of gear from it.

Unfortunately how much I want to play and how much I get to play are two different things. And if the game is moving ahead too quickly and I have to focus on one character to stay relevant, I will lose interest.  Again we just don't have enough information to determine how that will play out, but it is something I now have to worry about where I did not think I did before.