1975 replies to this topic

[veirge]

Runkleford, on 16 November 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

Well that's not really saying there WILL be more tiers, they're just not promising that there won't be more tiers.

This made me laugh, pure lack of logic on that post. So Runkleford, mind taking away the double negatives (not and won't)? Viola, you are left with "they're just promising that there will be more tiers." LOL.

[Lordkrall]

veirge, on 16 November 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

This made me laugh, pure lack of logic on that post. So Runkleford, mind taking away the double negatives (not and won't)? Viola, you are left with "they're just promising that there will be more tiers." LOL.

No. They simply open for the possibility seeing as people behave like children if they don't explicitly states that there might be more tiers in the future and then introduce them.

[Ghostwing]

Jason Seven, on 16 November 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

You are also comparing a non-MMORPG with a MMORPG. Fun is a huge factor in games but people don't play MMORPGs for fun. They play them to compare themselves with others, to show and prove that they can achieve more than the rest. This is the truth about MMORPGs in general. If you don't believe me then just look at what this game is: A fashion show to show off (to others) rare skins (achievements). It follows the very same principle. You are absolutely right, though. Guild Wars 2 is a tremendously dull and subpar game as of now. Adding a gear treadmill just proves this because it is indeed not needed in a game with good design.

I certainly did play GW2 for fun, though. You might be right that it did not appeal to the larger population like WoW did, but I did not feel the need to participate in the fashion show. I played the content because I honestly loved it, and was told that GW2 will retain elements from GW1 (mainly, I can be wearing the same pieces of non-prestige armor forever and just play the content).

See, I liked playing WoW for fun too. Yeah, every new tier gave me more damage and more health, but the next dungeon's bosses also had more damage and more health. From doing 1k dps to a boss with a million health I am doing 4k dps to a boss with 4 million health. All they did was increase some numbers all around. I geared up in WoW to be able to raid; to be able to do the content that sometimes offered different mechanics--a new type of puzzle to solve. I did not raid for the gear, or to differentiate myself from other players. The gear was merely a means to an end. If I could just do the current dungeon tier once, twice, three, four, five times, and just wait for the next tier, I would've been happy. But they needed to keep me subscribed, so they needed me to do the current dungeon tier ten, fifteen times, with weekly lockouts, until I got my full set to do the next tier effectively. I didn't like the perpetually renewed stat grind.

There is no reason GW2 needs to keep me subscribed. As a matter of fact, they advertised the game as having eliminated the mandatory gear grind. This is the reason I bought the game. Some of us DO like playing just to play through the content, and returning just to play through the new content, without needing stat inflation--MMORPG or otherwise. For those that did want to show their time investment, they had the prestige cosmetic gear, but it was optional in terms of being able to complete content.

Edited by Ghostwing, 16 November 2012 - 10:22 AM.

[Runkleford]

veirge, on 16 November 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

This made me laugh, pure lack of logic on that post. So Runkleford, mind taking away the double negatives (not and won't)? Viola, you are left with "they're just promising that there will be more tiers." LOL.

Lack of logic? The lack of logic is on your part here. Just because they aren't making promises doesn't mean that there WILL be more gear tiers. It simply means that they are not closing the door on the possibility of a gear treadmill.

I'm on the side that there should be no gear treadmill and I definitely do not like ascendent gear as it stands now so it's not like I'm making excuses for ANET. And it's troubling to me that ANET will not commit to promising there would be no gear treadmill. But I'm also not going to let "my side" commit logical fallacies.

Edited by Runkleford, 16 November 2012 - 09:21 AM.

[RabidusIncendia]

Runkleford, on 16 November 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

Lack of logic? The lack of logic is on your part here. Just because they aren't making promises doesn't mean that there WILL be more gear tiers. It simply means that they are not closing the door on the possibility of a gear treadmill.

I'm on the side that there should be no gear treadmill and I definitely do not like ascendent gear as it stands now so it's not like I'm making excuses for ANET. And it's troubling to me that ANET will not commit to promising there would be no gear treadmill. But I'm also not going to let "my side" commit logical fallacies.

It's not outright saying it, but it is in PR speak.  We're using our same deductive powers here when I said ascended would be a huge grind, and it turned out to be.  Arenanet is currently in a bit of a bind with their player base, and saying there will be no additional tiers would get a lot of people quitting to reconsider.  They are not.

They've also stated additional gear tiers "was more of an expansion thing"  when asked about this in their patch, so we know it's planned for every expansion, so to be perfectly honest that whole german article isn't even necessary to be alost certain of a gear tier.  It just makes it that much more likely.

And shoot, it gets even more obvious when Lindsey basically said ascended was part of a hear tier campaign.  And the real clinch is the obvious:  They're only doing this to get grinders to stay, they're pissing off the majority of their players to do it so there's no other reasonable explanation, so they need more gear tiers to keep those players in for good.

So do we know for certain?  I guess not.  But only in the sense of certainty that "I cannot be certain there is no santa".

Edited by RabidusIncendia, 16 November 2012 - 09:51 AM.

[Lordkrall]

Wait.. Exotics are a huge grind?
Thats news to me and most likely most players in the game.

They have simply made sure that people like you and all other whiners here can't come and shout about being lied to IF they see the need to add a new tier.

[RabidusIncendia]

Lordkrall, on 16 November 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

Wait.. Exotics are a huge grind?
Thats news to me and most likely most players in the game.

They have simply made sure that people like you and all other whiners here can't come and shout about being lied to IF they see the need to add a new tier.

That's correct, I used the wrong word   Although it really doesn't matter, that wasn't even a part of the argument >.>

Edited by RabidusIncendia, 16 November 2012 - 09:53 AM.

[Lordkrall]

RabidusIncendia, on 16 November 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

That's correct, I used the wrong word

And now you changed it to Ascended, without actually know anything about how obtainable they are.

As far as we know they drop for each third mini-dungeon.
Would that mean its a grind?

What makes that more of a grind than getting exotics?

[RabidusIncendia]

No but I'll but you 100:1 odds at 50 cents that it won't.  Not much to lose, you stand to gain 50 bucks, me only 50 cents.  You up for it?.

You cannot literally be certain of anything, so if you want to argue epistomology you're not going to get anywhere.  If you want to go by a track record I've been 100% correct so far on every bit of ascended information I've said would happen after the first bit of news, so I think my estimates are pretty good

But you're right, we only have to wait like a day for me to prove you wrong there, so I don't even need an argument really.  And really nobody takes the argument that they'll take less work than exotics with the information we're just getting seriously, so I don't even know why I bothered arguing in the first place I guess.

Edited by RabidusIncendia, 16 November 2012 - 10:06 AM.

[Runkleford]

RabidusIncendia, on 16 November 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

It's not outright saying it, but it is in PR speak.  

I agree it's PR speak and that they're probably covering their butts because they're at the very least thinking of putting more tiers in. But we also have to keep it honest here and not make claims as though they are fact.

ANET hasn't said there would be more tiers. But they also haven't said there won't be. And that's enough to be worrying especially when they've already stated before that there will be no gear treadmills yet they can't repeat that claim anymore?

[Uder]

Gli, on 15 November 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

She said they will be boosted to match the stats of better weapons when better weapons are introduced. If you don't care for legendaries (I don't myself) just get one of the better weapons when they are introduced.

you are right, mate, i misread it and thought legendary will have better stats than ascended!

[karekiz]

https://forum-en.gui...ic-Forge-Recipe

Here is a recipe for infusion blue piece.  Even more interesting is that they have stats.  Wonder how far those stats grow.

Edited by karekiz, 16 November 2012 - 12:46 PM.

[Wordsworth]

Don't understand why they wouldn't just say no to more tiers if there won't be more tiers. It's a shame that someone at ANet is thinking, "Well just in case we have to perpetuate the treadmill..."

Stick to your guns, damn. Believe in your creative team that new zones, dungeons, cosmetics, GvG, player housing and social features and everything ELSE you can add to this game will sustain the population rather than periodic stat boosts. People have already spent their $60. You aren't making money off of getting people who enjoy treadmills to stay.

karekiz, on 16 November 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

https://forum-en.gui...ic-Forge-Recipe

Here is a recipe for infusion blue piece.  Even more interesting is that they have stats.  Wonder how far those stats grow.

100 Ancient Bones for a blue. Goddammit ANet.

Edited by Wordsworth, 16 November 2012 - 12:47 PM.

[Lordkrall]

Wordsworth, on 16 November 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

100 Ancient Bones for a blue. Goddammit ANet.

Ancient Bones are both easy to get and cheap to buy so don't really see the problem.
Probably a good way to remove the huge amount of them from the market, just like they did with Butter and such.

[veirge]

Runkleford, on 16 November 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

Lack of logic? The lack of logic is on your part here. Just because they aren't making promises doesn't mean that there WILL be more gear tiers. It simply means that they are not closing the door on the possibility of a gear treadmill.

I'm on the side that there should be no gear treadmill and I definitely do not like ascendent gear as it stands now so it's not like I'm making excuses for ANET. And it's troubling to me that ANET will not commit to promising there would be no gear treadmill. But I'm also not going to let "my side" commit logical fallacies.

The argument of which is side whatever is Irrelevant. Logic simply states "if not(not P) then P". Plain and simple. PRs use double negatives to hide their true intent, then people with no common sense believe outright. Case and point, double negatives negate each other.

[Lordkrall]

veirge, on 16 November 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

The argument of which is side whatever is Irrelevant. Logic simply states "if not(not P) then P". Plain and simple. PRs use double negatives to hide their true intent, then people with no common sense believe outright. Case and point, double negatives negate each other.

No. They create a fail-safe seeing as they have learned that people are incapable of reading things unless it is clearly stated in big red letters. Therefore they say this now so that those people can't come IF they feel the need to add another tier in the future and shout about how they were lying.

[veirge]

They already said they wont create gear

Lordkrall, on 16 November 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

No. They create a fail-safe seeing as they have learned that people are incapable of reading things unless it is clearly stated in big red letters. Therefore they say this now so that those people can't come IF they feel the need to add another tier in the future and shout about how they were lying.

Sigh. You must not understand the simple if-then example. Remove the double negatives, plain and simple.

And btw, that fail safe thingy, its called PR. You see politicians and CEOs do that all the time.

Edited by veirge, 16 November 2012 - 01:36 PM.

[ZombieKing]

pretty much what i think:

[Lucas Ashrock]

karekiz, on 16 November 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

https://forum-en.gui...ic-Forge-Recipe

Here is a recipe for infusion blue piece.  Even more interesting is that they have stats.  Wonder how far those stats grow.

What is this trash. A blue, using uber expensive mats. Roflmao

[Jairyn]

ZombieKing, on 16 November 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

pretty much what i think:

He can't even do math right.

[ogrejd]

Draugadan, on 16 November 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

Sorrow's Furnace, as far as I'm aware, only added green weapons. We all know they weren't actually any better, since you could still get the same damage and the same upgrades on a gold weapons.

...and white weapons had the exact same stats as gold and you could put the exact same upgrade mods on them as on gold (after Nightfall, anyways, when they introduced Inscriptions as their own item upgrade instead of being built-in to blue, gold, and green items).

[ZombieKing]

Jairyn, on 16 November 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

He can't even do math right.

Off topic but ill bite. lets see here
Acended gear                Exotic
+50 power          +48 power
+50 Precision              +48 precision

A diffrenc of +2

Statment in video "its only +2 in some stats"
Hence statement is true. But seems you wanted him to do all the math for you so lets do that.

Acended gear           Exotic Diffrence
+50 power         +48 power +2
+50 Precision       +48 precision +2
+10% magic find           +7% magic find   +3
+18 precision        +15 percision +3
+18 Power        +15 power +3

Fell better? now for homework id like you to write an essay on why you like to jump to conclusion. TY

Edited by ZombieKing, 16 November 2012 - 04:20 PM.

[Jairyn]

Apparently you can't do math, either. Hint: the ascended has a "built-in" upgrade.

...and infusions give even more stats.

... And the only infusions we know of right know are Fine quality.

Edited by Jairyn, 16 November 2012 - 04:40 PM.

[JONO51]

ZombieKing, on 16 November 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

Off topic but ill bite. lets see here
Acended gear    Exotic
+50 power +48 power
+50 Precision +48 precision

A diffrenc of +2

Statment in video "its only +2 in some stats"
Hence statement is true. But seems you wanted him to do all the math for you so lets do that.

Acended gear Exotic Diffrence
+50 power    +48 power +2
+50 Precision       +48 precision +2
+10% magic find +7% magic find   +3
+18 precision   +15 percision +3
+18 Power   +15 power +3

Fell better? now for homework id like you to write an essay on why you like to jump to conclusion. TY

2+3=5

[karekiz]

Lordkrall, on 16 November 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

Ancient Bones are both easy to get and cheap to buy so don't really see the problem.
Probably a good way to remove the huge amount of them from the market, just like they did with Butter and such.

Spin-to-win!

We can logically conclude not *all* Forge combines will use Ancient Bones.  What are the others?  Who knows.  Also price will rise as people go to buy them in stacks of 100's.  Besides if they follow upgrade values akin to current they will have blue/rare/exotic.  I am assuming 100/200/250(255?) to be closer to the value for the better infusion upgrades or whatever the max stack is.

Granted we don't know *if* they have rare/exotic upgrades, but why else is it colored blue instead of pink/orange(or whatever exotic is).

Now we just need to see if stats increase or just the Agony resistance with each tier.

Edited by karekiz, 16 November 2012 - 04:56 PM.

[MazingerZ]

I will continue to play.  They won't see a dime from me from now on though.  I'll just eat up their bandwidth.

Lurking on the forums, its pretty amazing that ArenaNet is letting all that negativity run amok (granted, it's all consolidated to one massive thread).

I personally think the Ascended move was a bad idea.  I also think their development style sucks.  I'm not sure where their philosophy changed, but this doesn't seem like the ArenaNet that talked about GW2 two years ago.

If I wanted a treadmill, I'll go play Pandas.  At the very least it'll give me an EZ MODE to get gear instead of the friggin' frustrating wipe-fests PUGing gives me sometimes.

Edited by MazingerZ, 16 November 2012 - 05:13 PM.

[Jairyn]

If only Jeff Strain's new MMO wasn't zombie survival horror. I know people say eurocentric medieval fantasy is done to death, but it's still my favorite.

[Fizzypop]

Jairyn, on 16 November 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

Apparently you can't do math, either. Hint: the ascended has a "built-in" upgrade.

...and infusions give even more stats.

... And the only infusions we know of right know are Fine quality.

http://www.gw2db.com...d-ring-of-death - make sure to look at the bottom stats too. Yeah....>.> sigh

[karekiz]

http://www.gw2db.com.../trinkets/rings heh

Ok this brightened my day a bit:

http://www.gw2db.com...f-death-infused

[Runkleford]

veirge, on 16 November 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

The argument of which is side whatever is Irrelevant. Logic simply states "if not(not P) then P". Plain and simple. PRs use double negatives to hide their true intent, then people with no common sense believe outright. Case and point, double negatives negate each other.

The double negative was a typo on MY part. I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you actually read ANET's press release itself but I guess not. So go read it and tell me where that double negative is.