1975 replies to this topic

[Trei]

Well it seems the poll results so far does not appear to be reflecting what many anti ascended players would like anet to see.
I think it needs a few more questions, like:

Would you still consider introducing friends to the game in light of this?
Does it negatively affect any of your plans to shop in the gem shop?
Does it negatively affect your perception of anet's integrity?

All the poll is showing right now is "players don't like it but its ok they will play the game anyway".

Edited by Trei, 21 November 2012 - 04:45 AM.

[ZoeMayZing]

DAE receive the GW2 Southsun Shore survey? It asks some very important questions regarding the quality of the event, and how everyone felt about it. MAKE SURE to do it!

[Athaya]

I dont see much of a problem with ascended gear, and it was kind of needed. Exotics are just way too easy to get right now, after hitting 80 you can get full exotic armor for a couple gold. Weapons might take a little longer but seriously....most are only 1g or less. If you didnt make a few gold leveling to 80 the only thing you must have been doing was grinding mobs like the gold sellers. It was anets mistake making exotics so easy to get, and after getting them, doing the fun achievements, and some spvp, theres nothing left to do, unless you go for a legendary, which is just a grindfest which i see ascended gear being as well. And if the ring comparison is anything to go off of then stat increase is negligible. If your in exotics playing against a guy who just bought a char with full ascended, you should easily be able to kill him, and if you cant then you have other problems than gear.

[Lucas Ashrock]

Illein, on 20 November 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

Oh I absolutely agree. Love the dungeon so far. They should fix the "guaranteed" ascended ring after completing Level10 - but other than that and the Disconnect issue, there are no game breaking bugs at all so far and the encounters are having actual designs, rather than the Tank & Spank we've seen in previous dungeons save for a few notable exceptions. I do hope the Boss mechanics increase farther up the scale to be more on-par with Lupicus when you did him for the first time or something, so far still my favourite boss in the game

And as you say, the fact that you don't need Ascended gear at all, because you can ACTIVELY avoid the mechanics that inflict Agony on you - is great. (save for a couple exceptions, which - as noted earlier, don't kill you in their own right, though. Coupled with other damage sources, it will, of course.)

Really. Try go to over lv20 and tell me if you didn't thanks your god you got your ring and back crafted with agony resistance. Avoid huh?

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 21 November 2012 - 04:42 AM.

[Lordkrall]

It is quite interesting to see everyone shouting about  gated content btw.

You can after all do ALL Fractals without even getting to Agony, and the only thing that does change is the difficulty. So technically you miss no CONTENT, right?

[Illein]

Lucas Ashrock, on 21 November 2012 - 04:42 AM, said:

Really. Try go to over lv20 and tell me if you didn't thanks your god you got your ring and back crafted with agony resistance. Avoid huh?

That was the QUESTION for heaven's sake. SO 20+ you can't avoid Agony any more like you can 10+ rather easily?

Edited by Illein, 21 November 2012 - 08:12 AM.

[JONO51]

I wonder if they'll comment on ascended items in the Reddit AMA.

[Illein]

JONO51, on 22 November 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

I wonder if they'll comment on ascended items in the Reddit AMA.

The last two AMA's they answered every last question as far as I remember - and I am sure someone WILL ask them on it, of course it could be a rather dodgy answer, I guess. We'll see! When is one scheduled if you don't mind me asking?

[JONO51]

Illein, on 22 November 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:

The last two AMA's they answered every last question as far as I remember - and I am sure someone WILL ask them on it, of course it could be a rather dodgy answer, I guess. We'll see! When is one scheduled if you don't mind me asking?

Monday at 12pst
http://www.guildwars...-november-26th/

[Illein]

JONO51, on 22 November 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

Monday at 12pst
http://www.guildwars...-november-26th/

Thanks!

[Var]

JONO51, on 22 November 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

I wonder if they'll comment on ascended items in the Reddit AMA.

Likely we'll be told what we've already been told. Though might shed some light on alternate methods of acquiring and time frames for such.

[Hector]

Trei, on 21 November 2012 - 02:34 AM, said:

Well it seems the poll results so far does not appear to be reflecting what many anti ascended players would like anet to see.
I think it needs a few more questions, like:

Would you still consider introducing friends to the game in light of this?
Does it negatively affect any of your plans to shop in the gem shop?
Does it negatively affect your perception of anet's integrity?

All the poll is showing right now is "players don't like it but its ok they will play the game anyway".

I actually do not care at this point if the majority like this or that as I am completely done myself. If the game continues on and becomes a huge success, awesome. If the game withers and dies a slow painful death, awesome. I have nothing invested in the game anymore.

What does baffle me is all these people that are glad they added gear treadmills and wondered why they weren't in the game in the first place.

First off, apparently you did zero research before you bought this product and whoever did that should probably be more prudent with their money. You might have problems in the future if you don't.

Second, I KNEW exactly what I was buying and was perfectly happy with the product until Arena Net decided to add a feature that they had stated multiple times that they were very against, even looked down on and considered it insulting to game players as a whole.

This also brings me to another thing that baffles me. A lot of people are saying "this is an MMO, it NEEDS gear treadmill..."

My question, which was also Anets question until November 15th is Why? Why does every MMO need something like that? I think the problem with GW2 after looking at it clinically and trying to be unbiased is that basically you had no character progression. Note I did not say "gear progression" which in reality is numbers going up everywhere and not progression at all, hence why it is called a treadmill.

People had run out of things to do because the way Anet set things up discouraged playing around with builds. Skills are rather static and many are just the same skill but with a different name and icon for each profession. Weapon skills are by design totally static. The only way to change attack skills is weapon swap and some profs didn't even have that. Also, each profession had utility skills that were clearly superior  so each effective build used the same skills. This led to the feeling that your character after you got the desired elite and hit 80 had no progression, because the progression you were supposed to do was in your own personal skill. Apparently, Anet didn't take into account how rampant ADD is.

Anet really has no way to expand your actual character progression beyond adding more skills and weapons. Which is something they will avoid since GW1 drove them nuts with thousands of skills and they couldn't balance the game. I would like to note that it has come to light that only 2 people at Anet work on balance so their reasoning at this point is moot as they are not really balancing the classes anyways.

My meandering post has a point. Anet wanted to retain players and to do so they chose the easiest, laziest method. Gear treadmill. It doesn't take any effort besides making numbers go up to design and it keeps hamsters on their wheel. Anyone with a brain would not welcome it, especially  those that knew before they bought the game what Anet supposedly stood for. If you don't understand why a lot of people are pissed and have left then you probably didn't.

Either way the game goes on. Some of us just have to wait longer for the game we waited 7 years for.

[Lightingbird]

^^^^ I understand your thinking and I agree but I also don't.

I've played many mmo's from pve and pvp ones to end game and character progression is always a great thing to keep people around.  Now when i log on, I go right to WvW and fight till I'm bored.  My main has full exotic's in every slot and I love my build.  I feel empty.  Its like I don't have anything else to strive for in this game.  Legendary's are a joke.  There is no way I am going to invest all that time for a skin.  Its silly.

So this new new gear pops up.  I'm welcoming it.  Its nothing major but its something.  So for that I welcome it.  I would love a end game secondary leveling system at 80.  Something in the roots of DAOC's old system but oh well.

[Illein]

I'll keep it brief with this reply:

I did like that there was no gear treadmill in the game when I purchased it - but if I am completely straight with myself, I was bored as well after I've aquired my Arah set and had only ridiculously grindy aspects of the Legendary left to complete it (Lodestones/T6 mats).

The people who I played with, felt similarly. For me - what was bringing some fresh breeze into the game, was the Patch of November 15th. New gear is something I actually look forward to acquiring! Why? Because it IS getting old quick if you run dungeons for absolutely NO possible reward whatsoever - other than 60 Dungeon Tokens a pop, which is what the situation was like, before the patch hit.

Now I am actually having fun with the game again - I got the opportunity to run dungeons with international pugs, which is also something I quite enjoy and wasn't really needed previously - now that I am a bit higher in the fractal level and it gets harder and harder to find people, you're kinda forced to go fish in international waters for group members I, personally, love that!

Ascended gear isn't really a big deal to me. With the Relic recipe you get your back fairly quickly and then everyone is on-par again, so I don't see the hysteria.

I can't even tell you at that point, if I'd throw a hissy fit if they decided to add another Tier of Ascended items somewhen 6-12 months from now, because chances are - I'll have done everythinge else in the game still by then and am looking forward to that sort of personal progression.

A part of me wants to say releasing it 3 months into the game was hurried though - but on the other hand, I didn't log in for a whole week (which is strange for me) before the patch, because I couldn't be arsed - so it was just the right time for the update for me, personally.

Edited by Illein, 23 November 2012 - 08:38 AM.

[Jairyn]

Even if we make the concession that having everyone chasing the eternal +1 is better for the longevity of the game*, though, I find it rankles that the ascended gear is, so far, dungeon-specific. That also seems out of line with the manifesto, moreso than is necessary. If Gw2 is to be "a different MMO," I liked the aspect that max-stat gear was available in myriad ways. I was of the belief that this was also appealing to many others. In addition to declawing elitism, equalizing rewards throughout content helps keep all content relevant; currently there's a distinct funnel of players into the Fractals. The difference in player behavior is palpable.

Chris's blog post did say they'd be proliferating ascended gear available from other formats, but "in the future." Why the delay for everyone but the dungeon grinders? Is this going to emulate the WoW model that exactly, where  a singular playstyle (raiding) get the latest tier while last season's goods go up for everyone else? How soon until we have to see the phrase "wellfare ascended" bandied about the fora?

I'd really like to see parity between the top-level stat gear available via dungeons, karma, badges, and crafting (with relative parity of time/gold/difficulty investment, as well, fair's fair). That's anti-grind at least in that everyone gets to choose their poison. Content is extended and egalitarianism is maintained. Sounds like a best case scenario, to me.

Cue: "you're just lazy," etc.

* honestly, when I consider it blankly, it really is the simplest to do and seemingly most powerful way to extend content. It is what it is.

Edited by Jairyn, 23 November 2012 - 01:59 PM.

[Briar]

honestly, the grind for better gear was introduced to the MMO industry as a gating replacement for the grind for higher levels, Arena Net should just go back to the level system if they wanted us to grind. It was a far more natural system that allowed for your grind to be extended into different flavorful areas...

Instead of "Grind in this dungeon for 2000 tokens" it was "Grind in this general level range for 50 levels - including the dungeon"

A far less boring method to say the least

[Runkleford]

Illein, on 23 November 2012 - 08:36 AM, said:

I'll keep it brief with this reply:

I did like that there was no gear treadmill in the game when I purchased it - but if I am completely straight with myself, I was bored as well after I've aquired my Arah set and had only ridiculously grindy aspects of the Legendary left to complete it (Lodestones/T6 mats).

The people who I played with, felt similarly. For me - what was bringing some fresh breeze into the game, was the Patch of November 15th. New gear is something I actually look forward to acquiring! Why? Because it IS getting old quick if you run dungeons for absolutely NO possible reward whatsoever - other than 60 Dungeon Tokens a pop, which is what the situation was like, before the patch hit.

Now I am actually having fun with the game again - I got the opportunity to run dungeons with international pugs, which is also something I quite enjoy and wasn't really needed previously - now that I am a bit higher in the fractal level and it gets harder and harder to find people, you're kinda forced to go fish in international waters for group members I, personally, love that!

Ascended gear isn't really a big deal to me. With the Relic recipe you get your back fairly quickly and then everyone is on-par again, so I don't see the hysteria.

I can't even tell you at that point, if I'd throw a hissy fit if they decided to add another Tier of Ascended items somewhen 6-12 months from now, because chances are - I'll have done everythinge else in the game still by then and am looking forward to that sort of personal progression.

A part of me wants to say releasing it 3 months into the game was hurried though - but on the other hand, I didn't log in for a whole week (which is strange for me) before the patch, because I couldn't be arsed - so it was just the right time for the update for me, personally.

I don't begrudge anyone who was bored or who wants this sort of gear progression but there are plenty of other MMOs with the sort of gear/character progression that keeps players like you playing. There were players like me who had hoped GW2 was different from those MMOs and didn't have this treadmill. GW2 was advertised as such so it's a huge disappointment to folks like me. And really this has killed any enthusiasm for any future MMOs as well because I see that MMOs just can't get away from the treadmill formula.

There were plenty of others like me who was still having fun and still finding plenty to do. But it looks like the game is no longer catered to players like me. ANET chose their sides and it is what it is. I'll still keep playing the game until I can no longer participate in future content.

GW2 certainly was not a revolution but it was a nice evolution at release. However, it's taken a step back and can hardly be called evolutionary anymore. It's not a different species of MMO but rather a more refined beast but still the same as the others in it's pack.

Edited by Runkleford, 23 November 2012 - 05:23 PM.

[Nozzie]

I would like to take this opportunity to apologise for extolling the virtues of Anet on this & other forums. I was a one-eyed Anet fanboy who believed them when they said that they would stand by their GW1 'no gear stat tiers' philosophy. They had maintained that approach throughout the life of GW1 & had repeatedly stated that they would keep the same philosophy in GW2. Top stat gear was to be within the reach of all players & the difference between it & the most prestigious gear was to be purely cosmetic. Anet have made a liar of me, & for that I apologise.

[Shatteredz]

Corvindi, on 21 November 2012 - 02:17 AM, said:

Your insinuation is most amusing, given that it was the defenders of this gear who were ruder by far.  But it is difficult to argue a weaker position, so I understand.  The anti-Ascended crowd had so many dev quotes backing up the prior version of the game over this current one that it was hard to keep track of them all.

Still, it's just amusement, as I said in another thread.  Time to vote with wallet, mouth means nothing.

Duh, lets see:
1: People cry all the time that Anet isnt communicating enough. Even if something "might be" they wanna know it.
2: Anet lives up to that and makes a lot of statements and opinions, on the forums.
3: Numbers(or research, whatever) show a large decline in the GW2 playerbase. Research (probably) points out alot of people are getting bored with the end-game content(seen this in my guild as well, legendary's have absurt/strange/ugly skins on alot of weapons, so those aint a goal either).
4: Anet doesnt want to lose their playerbase, so they decide to make another tier in order to make those people come back.
5: Few people dont agree with this and shout it all over the internet, along with "doom phrases" like: Anet is dead now, losing players blabla.

TLDR: Arenanet is a company. They need to earn money, like everybody else in this world. If their research showed that alot of people were leaving cus of no endgame content, then its profitable for them to fix that. If they piss of a fraction of the playerbase with that(yes, people complaining about ascended gear are actually a very small minority) then so be it, for the greater good.

Also, game is free. Ask for a refund or just leave if you dont like where the game is heading.

Edited by Shatteredz, 24 November 2012 - 01:21 AM.

[DuskWolf]

Nozzie, on 24 November 2012 - 12:01 AM, said:

I would like to take this opportunity to apologise for extolling the virtues of Anet on this & other forums. I was a one-eyed Anet fanboy who believed them when they said that they would stand by their GW1 'no gear stat tiers' philosophy. They had maintained that approach throughout the life of GW1 & had repeatedly stated that they would keep the same philosophy in GW2. Top stat gear was to be within the reach of all players & the difference between it & the most prestigious gear was to be purely cosmetic. Anet have made a liar of me, & for that I apologise.

That's pretty much how I feel. Right now I realise that ArenaNet have decided to court the grinders, trying to take a piece of the WoW pie. GW2 isn't even evolutionary. To be honest, Champions Online does more to set itself apart from other MMOs than Guild Wars 2 does. Way, way more. And ME3 in multi-player is just more fun for me to play right now. I've uninstalled GW2.

I wanted to believe them based upon their reputation, I defended them, and I was made out by them to be a liar and an idiot too. That's a badge of shame I wear. But at least I have the courage to do so, unlike others around here, who'll still swear that the sky is green when it is in fact blue. Emporer's new clothes and all that.

I did want to believe them. I was passionate about the lore, the ideas, and I was let down on so many levels.

I feel shitty about it too, you're not alone.

Well, it's going to be interesting to see what happens when the WoW fans who see this as their current darling realise that GW2 isn't as fulfilling as WoW, and they go back that way. The same fate awaits GW2 that met WAR when WAR tried to do the same thing. It's funny, the community tried to warn Mythic, too. Tried to warn the fans.

We were haters, whiners, and doom-and-gloom bringers.

And then WAR died. It's still up, but it's a ghost town now. Just like every other WoW also-ran. And that's going to happen to GW2 too. Oh ArenaNet. Why? What were you thinking... Greed, probably.

[Wordsworth]

Shatteredz, on 24 November 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

4: Anet doesnt want to lose their playerbase, so they decide to make another tier in order to make those people come back.

And that's the worst part. You and or ANet believe that is what attracts the players who left, and maybe it is. It would be nice if it was actual content instead, like zones and dungeons... But ANet disagrees. Or at least doesn't think they're creative enough to make lasting end-game content, or productive enough to release end-game content on a regular basis. Either way...

[Lordkrall]

Wordsworth, on 24 November 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

And that's the worst part. You and or ANet believe that is what attracts the players who left, and maybe it is. It would be nice if it was actual content instead, like zones and dungeons... But ANet disagrees. Or at least doesn't think they're creative enough to make lasting end-game content, or productive enough to release end-game content on a regular basis. Either way...

Last I checked we got one new zone and one new dungeon (with 9+ different parts),

[Cosian]

It was a good thing ... a reasonably short trip to 80 and the best gear stats.  Now play the content you want with your friends and grind for your Legendary gear if that was your thing.

Now though the topic is Ascended gear, you have to include Fractals because currently this is the only way to get the gear.

Now its back to level based tiered grinding where friends no longer find it easy to play together.  Sally is miffed because she was out of town last week and no one is doing level 2 fractals.  Tom is pissed because the group he rolled with forged ahead over the weekend and now is an exclusive group working level 15 Fractals.  Ken no longer rolls with our guild very much because no one else plays 24/7 and can keep up with him.  Tom doesn't even bother asking for guild groups anymore and just PUGS it because he knows no one is at is level.

I run a guild of over 300 members and the drama spike just went way up last week and many have already drifted off to other games because of it.

Endgame level based raiding .... the bane and destroyer of guilds and games.  I thought you understood this Arena Net?  It certainly appeared so from watching your Manifesto.

Now on to the gear itself.  I am a WvW player and I do not care if its a 1% adder or 20% adder.  Do the math as you wish.  The bottom line is that there is a gear advantage with an evermore difficult grind to get.  Can anything be good about that?  PLEASE RE-READ YOUR OWN MANIFESTO!  Your answer lies in there ....

The whole concept is terrible and will end up biting you in the tush.  The concept is so against everything that was built here it made me wonder if there has been a management change at Arena Net.

I also feel this is just about greed.  They did not need to put stats on the gear but did so because while Joe Average may not spend RL money to get Legendary Cosmetic Gear, he is far more likely to spend RL money to get his gear up to par.

Edited by Cosian, 24 November 2012 - 03:25 PM.

[Shatteredz]

Wordsworth, on 24 November 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

And that's the worst part. You and or ANet believe that is what attracts the players who left, and maybe it is. It would be nice if it was actual content instead, like zones and dungeons... But ANet disagrees. Or at least doesn't think they're creative enough to make lasting end-game content, or productive enough to release end-game content on a regular basis. Either way...

Point is, MMORPG's are about progression(and not only visual, for most players). If you people dont want progression, then the whole MMORPG genre is not for you.

[Corvindi]

Shatteredz, on 24 November 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

Duh, lets see:
1: People cry all the time that Anet isnt communicating enough. Even if something "might be" they wanna know it.
2: Anet lives up to that and makes a lot of statements and opinions, on the forums.
3: Numbers(or research, whatever) show a large decline in the GW2 playerbase. Research (probably) points out alot of people are getting bored with the end-game content(seen this in my guild as well, legendary's have absurt/strange/ugly skins on alot of weapons, so those aint a goal either).
4: Anet doesnt want to lose their playerbase, so they decide to make another tier in order to make those people come back.
5: Few people dont agree with this and shout it all over the internet, along with "doom phrases" like: Anet is dead now, losing players blabla.

TLDR: Arenanet is a company. They need to earn money, like everybody else in this world. If their research showed that alot of people were leaving cus of no endgame content, then its profitable for them to fix that. If they piss of a fraction of the playerbase with that(yes, people complaining about ascended gear are actually a very small minority) then so be it, for the greater good.

Also, game is free. Ask for a refund or just leave if you dont like where the game is heading.

Like I said, regardless of your justifications and the name calling and general rudeness we've experienced from those who support these changes, we have the actual words of the devs backing up that the product we bought isn't what we have now.

Unless they ban me unjustly for solo grinding all over the map or are foolish enough to charge a sub fee, I won't ask for my money back.  I ordered the game more than six months ago and I did get some enjoyment out of it, plus I still play (solo, mostly grinding mats and crafting, as I said).  If they are foolish enough to ban me without cause or charge a sub, I will find a way to get my money back, though.  Every cent and maybe then some.

Meanwhile, I feel very free to tell people exactly what I think of GW2 (don't buy it, you can't trust the devs and unless you're a dungeon hamster you won't like it once you hit 80).  And I'll keep right on doing that, too.  A pity, it's otherwise a very enjoyable and well-crafted MMO.

[Wordsworth]

Shatteredz, on 25 November 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

Point is, MMORPG's are about progression(and not only visual, for most players). If you people dont want progression, then the whole MMORPG genre is not for you.

Problem is you define progression through the treadmill. And contrary to their stance beforehand, so does ANet.

[Runkleford]

Shatteredz, on 25 November 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

Point is, MMORPG's are about progression(and not only visual, for most players). If you people dont want progression, then the whole MMORPG genre is not for you.

Tell me where in the term Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game does it say anything about progression? Only people with narrow views think MMORPGs have to be a certain way. I'm glad that you're not a game developer because you'd make some very cliche, unimaginative, uncreative and boring games.

[Lordkrall]

Runkleford, on 25 November 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

Tell me where in the term Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game does it say anything about progression? Only people with narrow views think MMORPGs have to be a certain way. I'm glad that you're not a game developer because you'd make some very cliche, unimaginative, uncreative and boring games.

The bold part.
Role Playing does have quite much to do with progression after all.

[Runkleford]

Lordkrall, on 25 November 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

The bold part.
Role Playing does have quite much to do with progression after all.

Commonly yes but that's not exclusively what role playing is. All it means is that you're playing a role. Much like Call of Duty is an FPS game but it doesn't mean all FPS games have to be modern military shooters.

Edited by Runkleford, 25 November 2012 - 10:21 PM.

[Falfyrel]

As a longtime Guild Wars fan, I have to scoff when I see comments that the Agony in Guild Wars 1 and the Agony in Guild Wars 2 are anything alike. In Guild Wars 1, Agony was a storyline point that was partially intended to prevent sequence-breaking, and after a few tweaks, was extremely easy to gain resistance to by running a single story mission. In Guild Wars 2, Agony is an incredibly obvious content-gate that prevents access to the higher levels of the Fractals until you have Agony resistance. The devs haven't been particularly subtle about this distinction, either. The two versions of Agony have virtually nothing in common, aside from the fact that they're both damage-over-time debuffs with the same name. May as well say that Fire is the new Agony for all it means.

But I still see absolutely no point in Ascended items. There was no reason for them to have higher stats, no reason for them to be the only defense against Agony - just a blatant attempt to try and cram vertical progression a la World of Warcraft into the game while blithely ignoring every other avenue of progression that could have been added. Why don't Achievement Points do anything, anyways?

There are ways to go about adding meaningful progression to Guild Wars 2. This is not a good one.