1975 replies to this topic

[Eon Lilu]

500 ecto's for the fully upgraded back piece....yeah right ...gg anet...

How does that bridge the gap between exotics and legendary's when your taking away 500 ecto's worth away from legendary goals....

They must be smoking some strong stuff.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 25 November 2012 - 10:55 PM.

[Var]

Eon Lilu, on 25 November 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

500 ecto's for the fully upgraded back piece....yeah right ...gg anet...

How does that bridge the gap between exotics and legendary's when your taking away 500 ecto's worth away from legendary goals....

They must be smoking some strong stuff.

Some people seem to have lacking reading and/or reasoning faculty and are just saying things out of context to make everything look worse than it really is...

The optional 500 ecto price tag is for people who want to delve into absurd depths of FotM (and have a fancy back slot skin), it does not attribute any "real" stats to the item, it just gives it +5,10 agony resistance, which has no effect on the actual item stat tiering (in anything aside from arbitrary, no longer statistically better rewarding depths of FotM) as this is an optional cost you are putting on yourself to chase FotM skins and is no different from sinking 250 ecto on the Anomaly in the Mystic Forge because you gain nothing from depths of >10 in FotM aside from skins; therein you are imposing on yourself an optional grind for skins which, it so happens, costs you 500 ecto.

It costs zero ecto to make the Ascended back slot item, zero (and the rings have no price on them, they are just stupidly random). They also offer a version that is quicker to make that costs 50 ecto to make. At not point does it ever cost anyone 500 ecto to make a backslot ascended item and be done with chasing ascended for that piece if they do not wish to delve further into FotM to chase skins. If you want ascended you either have a quick approach which is, naturally, a bit more expensive or the virtually free approach of getting it from FotM only.

So while they may be smoking some fine stuff...

...You're partaking in a blatant spread of disinformation.

Edited by Var, 25 November 2012 - 11:08 PM.

[Corvindi]

There is one thing I would like to know:

During the nearly three months that ArenaNet treated me as an equal to my more sociable gaming peers, who did I hurt by wandering around soloing in PVE, tagging along for DEs, rezzing people, tossing out a 'ty!' or a 'yw!' now and then, and incidentally talking everyone's ears off in Teamspeak during WvW?

Who did I hurt?  Whose game did I negatively impact by not being forced to group up to get the best possible level 80 gear?

[Howl]

I just changed my vote, I don't support ascended items and I have stopped playing the game completely about a week ago.

[DuskWolf]

That per centage regarding having stopped playing just keeps going up. On a fan forum, that's a nontrivial per centage. Oh, ArenaNet. Once you've seen how this has hurt your income, which direction will you flipflop in next?

I'm almost hoping that they actually do drop gold taxes from the game, include upscaling as well as downscaling for areas, and remove the extra stats from Ascended. Just to see what would happen. Guild Wars 2 has been an interesting social experiment, and that's the one I'd like to see run right now.

[draxynnic]

I'd have to say that it does set a worrying precedent. Guild Wars 1 managed just fine with no upgrades to item levels throughout its run - once you got the best items you were done (unless you wanted to shoot for fancier skins) and could just concentrate on overcoming challenges. And now Guild Wars 2 couldn't even get past the first quarter without escalating gear an additional tier - something that's inevitably going to downvalue the exotic dungeon armours that had previously appeared to be intended to be the equivalent of Guild Wats 1's 15K armours?

One of the big draws about the franchise - especially if they're going to claim "if you hate MMOs, you really need to check out Guild War 2" - is that it didn't have the "progression" treadmill that's the traditional carrot-on-a-stick treatment offered to MMO players. However, this precedent being set so early in GW2's run raises the spectre of the gear grind proving to be worse than WoW's ever was - if they can't make a quarter without upgrading the gear levels, how far is it going to be upgraded in two years? And how high is the barrier for entry for new players going to become as a result?

[Eon Lilu]

Var, on 25 November 2012 - 11:04 PM, said:

Some people seem to have lacking reading and/or reasoning faculty and are just saying things out of context to make everything look worse than it really is...

The optional 500 ecto price tag is for people who want to delve into absurd depths of FotM (and have a fancy back slot skin), it does not attribute any "real" stats to the item, it just gives it +5,10 agony resistance, which has no effect on the actual item stat tiering (in anything aside from arbitrary, no longer statistically better rewarding depths of FotM) as this is an optional cost you are putting on yourself to chase FotM skins and is no different from sinking 250 ecto on the Anomaly in the Mystic Forge because you gain nothing from depths of >10 in FotM aside from skins; therein you are imposing on yourself an optional grind for skins which, it so happens, costs you 500 ecto.

It costs zero ecto to make the Ascended back slot item, zero (and the rings have no price on them, they are just stupidly random). They also offer a version that is quicker to make that costs 50 ecto to make. At not point does it ever cost anyone 500 ecto to make a backslot ascended item and be done with chasing ascended for that piece if they do not wish to delve further into FotM to chase skins. If you want ascended you either have a quick approach which is, naturally, a bit more expensive or the virtually free approach of getting it from FotM only.

So while they may be smoking some fine stuff...

...You're partaking in a blatant spread of disinformation.

Sorry your "optional" crap wont cut it this time, it would have if they didnt improve the stats on ascended items and it was just for skins, everyone used that argument last time, its only cosmetic skins.....its optional quit whining ...qq.....gw has no stat difference only skins...quit whining ...qq..

Also its aleast 250 ecto's to get the infused one with the agony stat built in which has already been stated will be required in the future to be able to do some of the higher end content.

Sorry but "its optional only skins" is not true anymore. They changed there game to be another way now, so by making ascended items currently the best gear in the game, the optional part its only skins.. just does not cut it anymore.

I don't think Anet realise how much they have damaged its reputation, there word means absolutely nothing anymore and noone believes anything they say. Soon it will hurt there profits and then they might actually start to listen, this is not the way the majority of there player base wanted the game to go.

They had a great game with a great design philosophy, all they had to do was follow through on there promises which they have not by a long shot and in some cases gone in the complete opposite direction of what they said they would do. Im seeing less and less people actually playing in game and im on a high population server. They royally shot themselves in the foot. RNG gambling items in the gem store, ascended items...they just keep making more and more flip flop and terrible decisions.

I feel sorry for the dev's who worked so hard on this game, there basically being made into liars and there game is being turned into something which they never intended. I would be sooooo pissed off if I was them right now.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 26 November 2012 - 05:46 AM.

[Var]

Eon Lilu, on 26 November 2012 - 05:31 AM, said:

Sorry your "optional" crap wont cut it this time, it would have if they didnt improve the stats on ascended items and it was just for skins, everyone used that argument last time, its only cosmetic skins.....its optional quit whining ...qq.....gw has no stat difference only skins...quit whining ...qq..

Also its aleast 250 ecto's to get the infused one with the agony stat built in which has already been stated will be required in the future to be able to do some of the higher end content.

You don't seem to read what people write but construct some reality to suit yourself.

The agony infusions are, as of so far, optional and completely so. To state otherwise is to partake in guessing on an uncertain future, and not about making a constructive discussion as to the matter at hand. You're just making up hypotheticals, and in such a scenario you may as well say anything:
"To get Ascended Armor you will need to 8000 ectoplasms!"
"To get Ascended Weapons you must kite Kholer to Zhaitan and then solo the winner."
"To get Ascended Shoelaces you must beat ten dopplegangers simultaneously, each of them is a champion and each of them causes agony with their mere presence."

As I said in my post, to get ascended back/rings you do not need to spend ANY ectoplasms, your tirade about nothing doesn't change the fact. And, considering that you do not need infusion to get any of said ascended items, then the current 500 ecto price tag on infusing +5/10 agony resistance is as much forced on you as is getting the Anomaly from the mystic forge. That is to say, that while ascended items are not optional, getting them infused is, as of right now, most certainly the case. To get said ascended items you need at most 50 ecto but can gain the equivalent using zero ectoplasms.

As for real stat altering infusions, those do not cost ectoplasm. So you continue to fail at having any sort of point aside from hypothetical jargon.

As for the last sentence, no, I don't think that's been said at all. They've said you need it for going ever deeper into the fractals which, as of right now (those key words), rewards nothing more than skins. So, yes again, those 500 ecto are still nothing more than a skin grind.

[KryTiKaL]

draxynnic, on 25 November 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

I'd have to say that it does set a worrying precedent. Guild Wars 1 managed just fine with no upgrades to item levels throughout its run - once you got the best items you were done (unless you wanted to shoot for fancier skins) and could just concentrate on overcoming challenges. And now Guild Wars 2 couldn't even get past the first quarter without escalating gear an additional tier - something that's inevitably going to downvalue the exotic dungeon armours that had previously appeared to be intended to be the equivalent of Guild Wats 1's 15K armours?

One of the big draws about the franchise - especially if they're going to claim "if you hate MMOs, you really need to check out Guild War 2" - is that it didn't have the "progression" treadmill that's the traditional carrot-on-a-stick treatment offered to MMO players. However, this precedent being set so early in GW2's run raises the spectre of the gear grind proving to be worse than WoW's ever was - if they can't make a quarter without upgrading the gear levels, how far is it going to be upgraded in two years? And how high is the barrier for entry for new players going to become as a result?

"I will try to be as clear as possible:

We do not intend to deploy another tier/rarity of loot such as Rare>Exotic. However we also do not intend to make promises that can be misinterpreted moving forward."

That is directly from Chris Whiteside at Anet.

Now thank god we can put the "WELL NOW THE GAME IS GOING TO BE A GEAR TREADMILL" whining to rest.

[MazingerZ]

KryTiKaL, on 27 November 2012 - 12:53 AM, said:

"I will try to be as clear as possible:

We do not intend to deploy another tier/rarity of loot such as Rare>Exotic. However we also do not intend to make promises that can be misinterpreted moving forward."

That is directly from Chris Whiteside at Anet.

Now thank god we can put the "WELL NOW THE GAME IS GOING TO BE A GEAR TREADMILL" whining to rest.

I like how you gloss over his other statements about implementing a power curve.

They're not going to add a new color of gear.

They're just going to go the WoW route of making epic-- I mean Ascended gear released later better than the ones you got last month.

[Jairyn]

Well, technically, it is still a gear treadmill, just one set to a slow pace and that you can... Listen to the music you want to? This analogy is wearing thin.

Anyway, the point I tried to make in a previous thread is that they acknowledge ascended from FotM only was bad idea and will be making it available via other parts of the game. So, it's a grind, but we'll get to grind the way we want to. I think I'm okay with that.

[Runkleford]

KryTiKaL, on 27 November 2012 - 12:53 AM, said:

"I will try to be as clear as possible:

We do not intend to deploy another tier/rarity of loot such as Rare>Exotic. However we also do not intend to make promises that can be misinterpreted moving forward."

That is directly from Chris Whiteside at Anet.

Now thank god we can put the "WELL NOW THE GAME IS GOING TO BE A GEAR TREADMILL" whining to rest.

Are you purposely ignoring the part where they said there WILL be vertical progression and that while there will be no more tiers of rarity there WILL be better stats on newer items with that rarity. Depending on how they implement this it can either be relatively pain free or a heavy grind. But it's definitely gear progression.

[KryTiKaL]

Uhh I'm not glossing over that, actually what was stated was that there will be gear released with -different- stats than what was available. They never said -higher- stats (or better as you put it). Misinterpretations are why he is going about saying "However we also do not intend to make promises that can be misinterpreted moving forward."

Because of people making assumptions based off of uninformed interpretations and theories. We know nothing for certain until they release such -legitimate- information. Until then all people can do is whine about "speculation" and not legitimate facts. Its fine to speculate, don't get me wrong, but don't let that be some sort of "end all argument" like you want it to be.

Chill out, people.

Edit: I'd also like to cite this for those of you arguing against my position here, you know in case none of you did the damn leg work and found this stuff out yourselves.

"1: I would prefer that we never say never but our intention is that in terms of 'Named Tier (Rarity) of Loot' Ascended will be with us for a long time and we will not introduce a higher tier of loot for the foreseeable future. There will be loot with different stats and new infusions within the current tier that will be spread over long periods of time (for example Ascended gear will be deployed over the whole of next year)."

You also need to understand that just because he mentions a power curve it doesn't necessarily mean that stats will be going the WoW route and just get more and more ridiculous, however what I do -speculate- is that with how the game mechanics function, and with how the current meta is, that "power curve" may change depending on what new stats might become available on ascended gear. That doesn't necessarily mean they will get higher, just that the meta may likely change and make, for instance, crit damage set ups more consistent with DPS than condition set ups.

We don't know for certain and making assumptions and taking them as fact only makes you look like a whining little child.

Edited by KryTiKaL, 27 November 2012 - 02:07 AM.

[Runkleford]

KryTiKaL, on 27 November 2012 - 02:00 AM, said:

Uhh I'm not glossing over that, actually what was stated was that there will be gear released with -different- stats than what was available. They never said -higher- stats (or better as you put it). Misinterpretations are why he is going about saying "However we also do not intend to make promises that can be misinterpreted moving forward."

Because of people making assumptions based off of uninformed interpretations and theories. We know nothing for certain until they release such -legitimate- information. Until then all people can do is whine about "speculation" and not legitimate facts. Its fine to speculate, don't get me wrong, but don't let that be some sort of "end all argument" like you want it to be.

Chill out, people.

Edit: I'd also like to cite this for those of you arguing against my position here, you know in case none of you did the damn leg work and found this stuff out yourselves.

"1: I would prefer that we never say never but our intention is that in terms of 'Named Tier (Rarity) of Loot' Ascended will be with us for a long time and we will not introduce a higher tier of loot for the foreseeable future. There will be loot with different stats and new infusions within the current tier that will be spread over long periods of time (for example Ascended gear will be deployed over the whole of next year)."

How about YOU chill out? And again you conveniently ignore parts of what he's said:

"Yes the response was definitively expected. We did not intent for the information to come out this way. Going back to my previous answer the issue is that we believe in the vertical progression system we had pre launch and that the introduction of an element into the system post launch was going to cause concern but something we believe in. That is why there is no plan for new Rarity Tiers of loot but there are plans to enhance or gain items within the existing rarity design whose properties continue on a shallow power curve."

There IS a power curve, even if it is a shallow one, so yes there will be better stats and "enchanced" items but will still be within the same "rarity". Like I said before, depending on how it's implemented it could be a system where the gear progresses with you making it almost a non issue or a huge painful grind. But it's still gear progression. So stop telling others that there is no gear progression.

[KryTiKaL]

Trust me, I am chill. I'm not heated about this at all, despite my term usage.

Though I did not say there was no gear progression, because there is. However what I did state was that it isn't a treadmill like WoW is, and has been, for many years. Also we have yet to know what this shallow power curve is and it could simply be following the same design as how agony resistance works with infusions and thus creates a power curve versus the new debuff.

It has yet to be seen.

[Runkleford]

KryTiKaL, on 27 November 2012 - 02:18 AM, said:

Trust me, I am chill. I'm not heated about this at all, despite my term usage.

Though I did not say there was no gear progression, because there is. However what I did state was that it isn't a treadmill like WoW is, and has been, for many years. Also we have yet to know what this shallow power curve is and it could simply be following the same design as how agony resistance works with infusions and thus creates a power curve versus the new debuff.

It has yet to be seen.

My issue with your post is that you acted like that one statement from Whiteside was a definitive statement that ended all debate about whether or not there will be a gear treadmill. He did not. There's still questions on how the power curve on new gear would be implemented. I'm perfectly willing to wait and see but please don't act like this puts to rest the issues and that everyone should shut up.

Edited by Runkleford, 27 November 2012 - 02:50 AM.

[Illein]

Few things that really piss me off about Ascended items:

Getting the ones that are best for your chosen build, is a pain in the ass. Not only because GETTING one depends entirely on RNG - no, the stats on them are completely RNG as well AND last but not least, whether you get the +5 base Agony Resistence in 20+ Fractals - is RNG AGAIN.

So even if you get a ring, without the +5 Agony it's far from Best-in-Slot .

And to make things worse, it's not even Accountbound so you could at least use those shitty-stat ones for a different character of yours.

That's terribly annoying. Don't put so much RNG in my game, it doesn't make the game any more enjoyable or challenging.

Edited by Illein, 09 December 2012 - 04:26 PM.

[Var]

Illein, on 09 December 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

And to make things worse, it's not even Accountbound so you could at least use those shitty-stat ones for a different character of yours.

Yes, it is. They are all account bound.

[Illein]

Var, on 09 December 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

Yes, it is. They are all account bound.

Are they?

[Beta Sprite]

Illein, on 09 December 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

Are they?

You can't tell from that image.  If it were Account Bound with Soulbound on Equip (which is what I assumed), and you had equipped it, it would become Soulbound.

You'd have to find one that was just acquired and never equipped.

I'm not saying that you're wrong.  It might be Soulbound on Acquire.  But I thought they weren't, and this image doesn't prove it one way or the other.

Edited by Beta Sprite, 09 December 2012 - 04:46 PM.

[Var]

Illein, on 09 December 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

Are they?

They are account bound when acquired, they are bind on use (just like everything else in the game aside from whites and blues). If the ring has useless stats, why would you ever equip it in the first place? Do we also need to complain about exotics being bind on use?

Would you like some images?

[Illein]

Var, on 09 December 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

They are account bound when acquired, they are bind on use (just like everything else in the game aside from whites and blues). If the ring has useless stats, why would you ever equip it in the first place? Do we also need to complain about exotics being bind on use?

Would you like some images?

Account bound when acquired and Account bound - are two different pair of shoes.

I had SOME use for it at least, so I equipped it and didn't check previously if it was Account bound/BoE before that, figured it'd say Accountbound/Souldbound in that case, never paid it really any attention before tbh.

Good to hear you could, technically swap them to another character then, though. Take that one from my list I guess

Edited by Illein, 09 December 2012 - 04:54 PM.

[Var]

Illein, on 09 December 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

Account bound when acquired and Account bound - are two different pair of shoes.
Good to hear you could, technically swap them to another character then, though. Take that one from my list I guess

Well, let's be fair here, everything is bound on equip in this game if it has any value. So that's not really some drastic change and, at least, they made the Ascended items account bound. What the heck was my guardian going to do with Vassar and Relena's rings? In some oddly twisted and ironic way, my level 40 engineer has "best in slot" jewelry and backpiece (don't ask...) and he's only a level 40 salad.

That said, I do hate the massive RNG component to it but I view it as nothing more than a (multiple times for effort) daily right now because the rings (backslot is off the table, you know the recipe and you can make it exactly the way you want; the fact that its grindy is a bit annoying but its certainly not a travesty) aren't exactly going to break the game. Heck, the rings don't even have the specific stat spread I want so they are technically inferior to what I can craft. You do the daily, you get a crappy ring and you toss it to an alt. Maybe you get a fancy skin. And maybe you get the ring you want.

Here's to hoping that, come Wintersday, they just give you a token every time (with a chance at any and all rings along side the token), and then you need X (let's say 3 to 5 to 10) to get the exact ring you want. The backslot capacitor had the right idea though, given its the "prestige" item of the dungeon, I understand the steep price point (even though that's still just 12 days of 10/20 dailies).

Edited by Var, 09 December 2012 - 05:04 PM.

[Illein]

Var, on 09 December 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

Well, let's be fair here, everything is bound on equip in this game if it has any value. So that's not really some drastic change and, at least, they made the Ascended items account bound. What the heck was my guardian going to do with Vassar and Relena's rings? In some oddly twisted and ironic way, my level 40 engineer has "best in slot" jewelry and backpiece (don't ask...) and he's only a level 40 salad.

That said, I do hate the massive RNG component to it but I view it as nothing more than a (multiple times for effort) daily right now because the rings (backslot is off the table, you know the recipe and you can make it exactly the way you want; the fact that its grindy is a bit annoying but its certainly not a travesty) aren't exactly going to break the game. Heck, the rings don't even have the specific stat spread I want so they are technically inferior to what I can craft. You do the daily, you get a crappy ring and you toss it to an alt. Maybe you get a fancy skin. And maybe you get the ring you want.

Here's to hoping that, come Wintersday, they just give you a token every time (with a chance at any and all rings along side the token), and then you need X (let's say 3 to 5 to 10) to get the exact ring you want. The backslot capacitor had the right idea though, given its the "prestige" item of the dungeon, I understand the steep price point (even though that's still just 12 days of 10/20 dailies).

Well it's that RNG stuff in conjunction with the fact that L20+ I still get runs with 0 rares that kinda makes me dissatisfied with Fractals I love doing them, but I hate that it rewards me so very little.

"Fancy skin" would imply that you get exotics - 700 hours in, no exotic dropped yet - so that's the kind of pipe dreams I don't yield to any more ;D

[Var]

Illein, on 09 December 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

"Fancy skin" would imply that you get exotics - 700 hours in, no exotic dropped yet - so that's the kind of pipe dreams I don't yield to any more ;D

Fancy skins I meant the Fractal weapon skins; I doubt you spent 700 hours in there.

[FriendlyFire]

I did my fractal runs at the end of the month, last month, and it was hard to get a group. Now I have to complete the monthly when even fewer people are willing to do lvl1,2,3. What the heck is going on Anet!?  On top of that I can't join my friends because I am holding them back!?

I am having to grind/run fractals or eventually I will be left behind, even though I put in over 20 hours a week in WvW. Hopefully Winterdays doesn't introduce more items and grind so I am put further behind... Until February!?

Anet keeps pulling away from what originally sold me on the game.