1975 replies to this topic

[DOSGAMES]

Arquenya, on 13 November 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

I wonder what "numbers" you're talking about. Without even the option of polls, how could they know?
And let's not forget that GW was a success without gear threadmills.

I seriously doubt that this choice was made with any consideration for what the playerbase (what's left of it) really wants.

There wasn't a gear treadmill in Guild Wars 1, but there was clearly a Skill-tread mill.  You could beat the the game and all it's expansions in 100 hours or less but, if you wanted to participate in most high level dungeons/farms or have the ideal hero composition needed to get many of the titles like vanquisher, you'd have to grind out skill points, level multiple characters for skill unlocks, and capture the a huge amount of elite skills.

When I hit level 20 on my first character and beat all the missions, I soon realized I had so much more to do. I had to get on the treadmill, I had to grind, I had to progress linearly.

If I didn't get on that tread mill, people wouldn't invite me into groups. Not because my gear was bad, but because I couldn't run the right build. I really don't see the difference.

Same thing, different package.

Edited by DOSGAMES, 13 November 2012 - 09:05 AM.

[Wordsworth]

But skill captures are fun.

[Lordkrall]

Wordsworth, on 13 November 2012 - 09:04 AM, said:

But skill captures are fun.

That is a matter of opinion.
Just like grinding for gear is fun to some people.

[Runkleford]

IsThisNameTaken, on 13 November 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

At this rate, I can't wait to see people's reactions to when expansions come out and level 90 blue gear has better stats than your level 80 exotic/ascended/legendary >.<

In GW1, the level cap was level 20 from the very start and remained so for 7 years and 3 expansions later.

[AndrewSX]

Runkleford, on 13 November 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

In GW1, the level cap was level 20 from the very start and remained so for 7 years and 3 expansions later.

After this, i couldn't care the less what they made for years in GW1. (long time gw1 player here)

[Runkleford]

DOSGAMES, on 13 November 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

There wasn't a gear treadmill in Guild Wars 1, but there was clearly a Skill-tread mill.  You could beat the the game and all it's expansions in 100 hours or less but, if you wanted to participate in most high level dungeons/farms or have the ideal hero composition needed to get many of the titles like vanquisher, you'd have to grind out skill points, level multiple characters for skill unlocks, and capture the a huge amount of elite skills.

When I hit level 20 on my first character and beat all the missions, I soon realized I had so much more to do. I had to get on the treadmill, I had to grind, I had to progress linearly.

If I didn't get on that tread mill, people wouldn't invite me into groups. Not because my gear was bad, but because I couldn't run the right build. I really don't see the difference.

Same thing, different package.

Elite skill capping was only a huge amount if you chose to cap all your professions elites plus all the secondary profession elites. You simply did not need ALL of them. Heck, I only needed a fraction of them on a single character in my 7 years of play. And the normal skills you simply bought from skill vendors.

[DOSGAMES]

Wordsworth, on 13 November 2012 - 09:04 AM, said:

But skill captures are fun.

You say that now, do you remember trying to cap skills in Mineral Springs, where the Boss spawned at a random location and sometimes didn't spawn at all?  I'd rather do challenging content with my guild.

[ViM]

With the handling of the karma "exploit," the bugged events in the game, and bots, Anet has been doing a good job driving its players away.

Leading up to GW2's release, they had constantly said there would not be gear treadmill that you see in other MMOs. It doesn't matter if this ascended armor is only "slightly better than exotic." It still introduces gear treadmill and power creep. Reneging on your word to not put in gear treadmill will effectively destroy ArenaNet's integrity, their values, and principles that were laid out before GW2's release. This power creep not even 3 months into the game will be the final nail in ArenaNet's coffin.

[DOSGAMES]

Runkleford, on 13 November 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

Elite skill capping was only a huge amount if you chose to cap all your professions elites plus all the secondary profession elites. You simply did not need ALL of them. Heck, I only needed a fraction of them on a single character in my 7 years of play. And the normal skills you simply bought from skill vendors.

This definitely limited you.  Initially, I only had a Monk but sometimes, the Monk position was full, so I'd miss out on a FOW run. I decided to level a Necromancer so I could run BIP and SS but, sometimes the Monk AND Necro spots were full, so I level an Elementalist to nuke. It goes on and on.

Plus, if you wanted to run Discord-way or the other OP hero builds, you needed to unlock skills for just about every class.

Edited by DOSGAMES, 13 November 2012 - 09:16 AM.

[Lady Rhonwyn]

DOSGAMES, on 13 November 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

You say that now, do you remember trying to cap skills in Mineral Springs, where the Boss spawned at a random location and sometimes didn't spawn at all?  I'd rather do challenging content with my guild.

Wrong example...  Mineral Springs always had all 6 bosses...  They were mixed around every time, but at least you could always cap your elite (it only always happened to be the last boss you encountered )

Oh, you pro-people are forgetting one thing... Those ascended stuff drops from that dungeon right?  But the infusions come from the MF...  So, not only do you need to try to get the items, but you will also have to get the materials required for the MF.

[Cr0w]

Great!

When do we get panda as a playable race?

I guess I'll not bother doing dungeons until they implement this else I'll have to grind for 2 armour sets. I might as well just grind once. In GW 1 we just infused our max armour so why can't we just infuse our exotics?

Time to join an active guild doing regular dungeon runs that lets a noob like me join

[Dainjah]

Im not against them adding new items/gear into the game as such, although, I do think it is a little early in all truth seeing as the game is little over 2 months old. It just feels to me that ANet are soley catering for the uber hardcore players who spend 25 hours a day grinding the hell out of everything and pump 100's of £/$ into the gem store. I'm married and have kids, I play a lot for the amount of free time I have and I am nowhere near finished all of the already existing content, I still enjoy questing either solo or with mates, gawking at the scenery and generally playing or pissing about. I just hope they aren't going to try to turn this into an elite willy waving contest like WoW is. Bring on the new stuff, but dont forget us normal players by prioritizing the (I dont want to use this phrase, but) No-lifers.

[Runkleford]

DOSGAMES, on 13 November 2012 - 09:14 AM, said:

This definitely limited you.  Initially, I only had a Monk but sometimes, the Monk position was full, so I'd miss out on a FOW run. I decided to level a Necromancer so I could run BIP and SS but, sometimes the Monk AND Necro spots were full, so I level an Elementalist to nuke. It goes on and on.

Plus, if you wanted to run Discord-way or the other OP hero builds, you needed to unlock skills for just about every class.

I definitely was not a fan of skill-capping, just so you know. But I had hoped ANET learned their lesson and not repeat their mistakes in GW2. Yet now it appears they're implementing an unnecessary start of gear progression when it should have stopped at exotic level stats.

And this whole infusion mechanic wasn't fun in GW1 and I don't feel that it's going to be fun here either. Much like skill capping, it adds nothing but tedium.

[DOSGAMES]

Lady Rhonwyn, on 13 November 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

Oh, you pro-people are forgetting one thing... Those ascended stuff drops from that dungeon right?  But the infusions come from the MF...  So, not only do you need to try to get the items, but you will also have to get the materials required for the MF.

It's cool, with me being a 'pro' I already have a Min/Max set and a MF set.  I'm already prepared. I'm excited for that treadmill!

Edit. I thought you meant magic find.  Getting the materials shouldn't be so bad, especially if this dungeons has high level rewards that aren't soul/account bound. Hopefully the 'tryhards' can make some good money off this.

Edited by DOSGAMES, 13 November 2012 - 09:33 AM.

[Guardian of the Light]

Shoros, on 13 November 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

Except it doesn't. I never understood the argument that "no monthly fee = we don't care whether you play or not". Of course they care, they need your money through the gem store. They need something to keep the players playing and, in addition, an incentive for the players to buy stuff from the gem store.


I'm just afraid that the other content won't be played anymore. Nowadays it's quite easy to find groups to every dungeon (some are more popular than others, but they are all populated quite well). That's because every dungeon has the same item level as a reward.
What now? It would be the same as if you could only find exotics in Arah and rares in the rest...yay.

You need people playing but you do not need players playing all the time, there's a difference.

In a subscription model, you need to retain players all the time or else they'll cancel they're subscription. As soon as they get tired of the content you've given them, they quit permanently and thus you'll lose that revenue.

In our B2P model even if a player quits to play something new they can return and perhaps buy some items in the microtransaction store if they get burned out on the content, as long as there's nothing blocking their return. If a player goes away for 2 months to try something new and returns (perhaps because of some content patch) and they find out all the dungeon groups require a new tier of armor and all the gear they put a lot of time into is outdated then they're less likely to begin playing again and thus they won't pay for in-game store stuff.

Edited by Guardian of the Light, 13 November 2012 - 09:36 AM.

[LawlAmgad]

I'll wait till the update, if the ascended armour has even +1 power on it, I think I'll call it quits based on I see it as the game changing in a way I do not want it to be. I enjoyed GW1 for many years simply due to I could just farm skins and titles. If we're now required to farm gear, then I know many MMOs like that, I quit them for GW2. To the people saying it's optional, not required, what's the big fuss? I'm a min/maxer, I grinded a game for 6 months straight, 6+ hours a day to get a slight power increase, 5 minutes later, oh look next tier of gear, my gear was now useless. It's not exactly optional to me, I would rather grind for gear in another game than grind it in GW2.

[Wordsworth]

LawlAmgad, on 13 November 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

I'll wait till the update, if the ascended armour has even +1 power on it, I think I'll call it quits based on I see it as the game changing in a way I do not want it to be. I enjoyed GW1 for many years simply due to I could just farm skins and titles. If we're now required to farm gear, then I know many MMOs like that, I quit them for GW2. To the people saying it's optional, not required, what's the big fuss? I'm a min/maxer, I grinded a game for 6 months straight, 6+ hours a day to get a slight power increase, 5 minutes later, oh look next tier of gear, my gear was now useless. It's not exactly optional to me, I would rather grind for gear in another game than grind it in GW2.

[Fenice_86]

Haters gonna hate...

They've just give you a "reason to play" a few more hours to grow ur char, why do you cry about it?
Personally i just ended my first full exotic equip and discovering that i'll have to work "again" to be full/max equipped doesnt' make me happy nor angry...
I'm just fine, more things to do, more entertainment, that's it.

What's wrong with that?
All the whiners here should just take things easier, this is JUST ANOTHER GAME.

[Lordkrall]

Indeed, +14 points all in all. The horror!

[Heart Collector]

OK so I read the blog post and here's what I've understood:

- Ascended gear is sort of meant to be a tier between Exotics and Legendaries
- It grants a very minor stat bonus compared to Exotics
- So far only back and ring slots will have Ascended items but eventually full armor sets will be added
- It has Infusion slots, which basically only have any value in the new dungeon
- The new dungeon has some random elements and gets progressively harder (in the general style that endless dungeon in Torchlight unless I'm very much mistaken), in which the Infusions are meant to combat a dungeon specific condition called Agony
- Eventually other item tiers may get Infusions

So what this means if I'm interpreting it correctly:

- So far we only have 3 ascended items per character - rings and back
- Eventually it will be a full armor set - one that players will earn by doing the new dungeon
- Instead of exotics being the highest tier in terms of power, ascended will take their place but with a very small statistical margin
- The only place ascended items will be much much better than exotics will be in the higher difficulty levels of the new dungeon - which may or may not matter as they did say that FOR NOW only ascended items will have infusion slots
- It won't really affect WvW and PvE outside the new dungeon that much
- The only thing that we will need to grind systematically as we delve deeper into the dungeon would be infusions (since the armor sets will remain static,we'll only need to get them once) - and these only work on this dungeon anyway.

It sounds pretty reasonable to me. I think you guys/girls are getting too bent out of shape for nothing! If things are the way I understand them, the only truly gear grinding concern would be the effect of Infusions outside the new dungeon. I'm not worried TBH

EDIT: I'm a guy who hates gear grinds in games, but this doesn't seem too bad.

Edited by Heart Collector, 13 November 2012 - 09:43 AM.

[Wordsworth]

It's a shame how much I would've loved this update without the Ascended stuff. If they had just announced a new dungeon, with new mechanics, new skins and so forth, but everything was still exotic.

100% of PvE for me is dungeons.  I can't stand the Orr grind so I just switch up dungeons whenever I feel like even if I'm getting tokens I don't want. And now to find out I haven't even been working for end-game like I thought I was, acquiring maxxed gear, well damn.

[NachyoChez]

Wordsworth, on 13 November 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

It's a shame how much I would've loved this update without the Ascended stuff. If they had just announced a new dungeon, with new mechanics, new skins and so forth, but everything was still exotic.

I think this is the absolute most heartbreaking part of it all.

Had they just left the 'Ascended' out, EVERYONE would have been happy.  New, harder dungeon with progressively higher rewards and changing landscape?  Sounds like something new to do at 80 to me.  New 80 area that isn't Orr?  Yup, I like it.  New sPvP map?  D'uh, winning.  New tier of gear that's required to see some content?  Srsly?

bdatty, on 13 November 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

. The point is, they're adapting and changing for the better. I don't get why people are afraid of change. If it's something new from the current content then why not open with welcome arms.

I think you're misunderstanding.  Change is fine.  GW1 armor went through RADICAL changes between release and nightfall.  New types got added, the system for upgrading changed, costs and material changed.  Everyone loved these changes.  

The problem is that this ISN'T change.  This is what we've all seen before.  This is what we played Gw to avoid.

[Heart Collector]

NachyoChez, on 13 November 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

I think this is the absolute most heartbreaking part of it all.

Had they just left the 'Ascended' out, EVERYONE would have been happy.  New, harder dungeon with progressively higher rewards and changing landscape?  Sounds like something new to do at 80 to me.  New 80 area that isn't Orr?  Yup, I like it.  New sPvP map?  D'uh, winning.  New tier of gear that's required to see some content?  Srsly?

From what I've understood:

- It's only 3 of your item slots so far
- When the armor set is out, you will need to get it - but just once (unless you want sets with different stat allocations)
- The only thing that you will need to improve regularly will be infusions...
- ...which may or may not be added later to other armor tiers...
-...and will only matter in the new dungeon at later difficulty levels

Doesn't sound too bad

Edited by Heart Collector, 13 November 2012 - 10:01 AM.

[bdatty]

NachyoChez, on 13 November 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

I think you're misunderstanding.  Change is fine.  GW1 armor went through RADICAL changes between release and nightfall.  New types got added, the system for upgrading changed, costs and material changed.  Everyone loved these changes.  

The problem is that this ISN'T change.  This is what we've all seen before.  This is what we played Gw to avoid.

What you say is true, I'm not arguing. But these guys don't seem to see it, which is why I'm pointing it out.

[NachyoChez]

Heart Collector, on 13 November 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

From what I've understood:

- It's only 3 of your item slots so far
- When the armor set is out, you will need to get it - but just once (unless you want sets with different stat allocations)
- The only thing that you will need to improve regularly will be infusions...
- ...which may or may not be added later to other armor tiers...
-...and will only matter in the new dungeon at later difficulty levels

Doesn't sound too bad

The fact that you NEED to get it is, by itself, enough to change the game name to 'WoW Wars' because it no longer has anything to do with the original.  Heck, I did CoF EXP tonight with no pants (that was an embarrassing [no pun intended] discovery!!!).


EDIT:

bdatty, on 13 November 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

What you say is true, I'm not arguing. But these guys don't seem to see it, which is why I'm pointing it out.

Apologies, my nerves are just frazzled atm.  Lack of sleep, inflatable castles, and the fall of or a company I adored have left me frazzled.

Edited by NachyoChez, 13 November 2012 - 10:08 AM.

[Senatic]

Heart Collector, on 13 November 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

Doesn't sound too bad

You're right. It's not too bad.

It's the precedent it sets that has gw1 players and players who came to gw2 for the "no gear grind" philosophy worried like hell.

[IsThisNameTaken]

Runkleford, on 13 November 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

In GW1, the level cap was level 20 from the very start and remained so for 7 years and 3 expansions later.

Yes, I played it since 2005 I loved their model.

[Lady Rhonwyn]

Senatic, on 13 November 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

You're right. It's not too bad.

It's the precedent it sets that has gw1 players and players who came to gw2 for the "no gear grind" philosophy worried like hell.

I've been trying to tell others that too, but they keep on saying "but it's only so little!"   And I wonder, why if it's so little is it required then?

[Heart Collector]

NachyoChez, on 13 November 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

The fact that you NEED to get it is, by itself, enough to change the game name to 'WoW Wars' because it no longer has anything to do with the original.  Heck, I did CoF EXP tonight with no pants (that was an embarrassing [no pun intended] discovery!!!).

Well, you only really need it for one dungeon's higher difficulties. And for nothing else. And really, it's just the Infusions which will be needed for that, which could very well be added to already existing item tiers. Again I could be wrong, but as long as it doesn't go beyond that it should be fine - which I don't think it will as from what I've un
derstood the new dungeon will essentially be sort of random fractions of older dungeon "skins"  (check mmorpg.com)

Senatic, on 13 November 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

You're right. It's not too bad.

It's the precedent it sets that has gw1 players and players who came to gw2 for the "no gear grind" philosophy worried like hell.

And believe me, I'm a bit apprehensive too! I came to the game to escape the WoW style vertical gear treadmill. But as I replied above to Nachyochez, if it remains confined just to higher difficulties of a single dungeon or dungeon type, we'll be fine

[SerDrak]

NachyoChez, on 13 November 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

The problem is that this ISN'T change.  This is what we've all seen before.  This is what we played Gw to avoid.

^ This.

Summed up my thoughts entirely. Guild Wars player since private beta.

Edited by SerDrak, 13 November 2012 - 10:13 AM.