1975 replies to this topic

[Tellia]

Heart Collector, on 13 November 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

From what I've understood:

- It's only 3 of your item slots so far
- When the armor set is out, you will need to get it - but just once (unless you want sets with different stat allocations)
- The only thing that you will need to improve regularly will be infusions...
- ...which may or may not be added later to other armor tiers...
-...and will only matter in the new dungeon at later difficulty levels

Doesn't sound too bad

the problem is the precedents this sets. why wouldnt they just keep doing this over and over now theyve done it the 1st time? no reason to believe they wont.

anet must have sat down, thought out a bunch of things to solve the problem of people getting bored and leaving. and THIS was the "best" idea they had. tells me that in a few weeks or months when people get bored and start leaving again, they arent going to have any better ideas if this shit idea was their best the 1st time.

also, they already went back on their word of horizontal max-level progression. exotics were supposed to be the top of the plateau. they said no treadmill. but here we are what...about 2 months after release of the game, and we get a patch introducing vertical progression. point is that even if they said ascended gear was going to be the best gear and they wouldnt add any more tiers, who in their right mind would believe them? theyve already shown they will go back on their word, back on their own principles.

[Heart Collector]

Lady Rhonwyn, on 13 November 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

I've been trying to tell others that too, but they keep on saying "but it's only so little!"   And I wonder, why if it's so little is it required then?

The infusions are required for the higher difficulties, not the stats of the ascended armors which will still be "lower" than legendaries. Hopefully, infusions will only affect the specific dungeons.

[LawlAmgad]

It's not that bad on paper, however it does signify a change. If things continue on like this, I can see the cap being raised every expansion as well.

[Heart Collector]

LawlAmgad, on 13 November 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

It's not that bad on paper, however it does signify a change. If things continue on like this, I can see the cap being raised every expansion as well.

I really hope not! I'd rather see new weapon and utility skills added. I'd love to be able to change my weapon skills around a bit!

[Resolve]

What a joke. This won't be the end of it either.

It's a really poor move. This won't keep people playing who need to chase numbers, they've already left.

[escada_assassin]

No worries here. I will just wait until it's released. I will first have to see if the new area / dungeon is harder, easier or so-so, if those items will affect so much the rest of the areas where I roam, because so far I find the game easy enough with what I have (and I don't have full exotics on one single char). Will the infusion thingy affect you / your armor / your foes in every other corner of the game? Starting from a low level area and up to a 80 level area? Cause if it's not gonna affect that, then why should I care so much about it? And ultimately - noone's rushing you to get it NOW, you have plenty of time to get it tomorrow, the next week or the next month. Don't tell me that everyone's after getting exotics with better stats to kill some level 15 drakes or whatever and let's be real - noone's gonna play only Orr 24/7. I bet a lot of people help their friends in lower level areas, some people like spending time in lower level areas and so on. If everyone would be playing only in level 80 areas, then Orr should be overpopulated - like literally you shouldn't see any Risen alive (lol at that) due to how many people would wander around that area. I take it as it is. New area? I'm glad about it! New foes? Cool! New gear? Super-cool! If it will be harder to get, then it's ok. It will take me more time until I'll learn how to, but I will someday get it. I remember the first time when I did a dungeon I was pretty mad about being so hard, but now...now people are just rolling through dungeons like they're the easiest things to do around. Time will tell.

[Lady Rhonwyn]

Heart Collector, on 13 November 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

The infusions are required for the higher difficulties, not the stats of the ascended armors which will still be "lower" than legendaries. Hopefully, infusions will only affect the specific dungeons.

Wrong.  Legendaries will become ascended (and thus have the same stats).  Infusions will only affect specific dungeons.  But the stats that will be there all the time (the base stats) are higher and available everywhere.

Why?  If they wanted that extra layer of difficulty, add some token call it an "ascended token", which you can then use on any exotic item to make it ascended and giving it the infusion slot.

[NachyoChez]

Heart Collector, on 13 November 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

The infusions are required for the higher difficulties, not the stats of the ascended armors which will still be "lower" than legendaries. Hopefully, infusions will only affect the specific dungeons.

Infusions ONLY can be applied to Ascended items and future legendaries. This means if Infusions are required, Ascended + is required.

[Lordkrall]

NachyoChez, on 13 November 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

Infusions ONLY can be applied to Ascended items and future legendaries. This means if Infusions are required, Ascended + is required.

Which you gain before even getting to that difficulty, so I don't really see the problem?

[Lady Rhonwyn]

Lordkrall, on 13 November 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

Which you gain before even getting to that difficulty, so I don't really see the problem?

How? As drop?  Still need to see an exotic.  Even rares are, well, rare.  Like maybe one in two weeks.  As reward?  Ok, let's grind for the infusion itself then!  What is required for that?  We only know that you can make those in the MF, requiring some new kind of item (to be introduced with the november update).  How will we get that item?  How many do we need of that?
And what next? Another new item with even higher stats?  And yet another slot type?

[Heart Collector]

Lady Rhonwyn, on 13 November 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

Wrong.  Legendaries will become ascended (and thus have the same stats).  Infusions will only affect specific dungeons.  But the stats that will be there all the time (the base stats) are higher and available everywhere.

Why?  If they wanted that extra layer of difficulty, add some token call it an "ascended token", which you can then use on any exotic item to make it ascended and giving it the infusion slot.

"For now, Infusions slots can only be found in gear of a new rarity type: Ascended."

"You’ll also see more Legendary items in the future and an update to our existing Legendary weapons. Legendary items were always intended to be on par with other “best-in-slot” items. So fear not, all existing Legendary weapons, which are currently on par with Exotics, will be upgraded to be on par with Ascended weapons at the same time that we add Ascended weapons to the game. Thus Legendaries will remain “best-in-slot” items. All Legendary items going forward will be of Ascended power. We also have plans to add more fun ways to acquire Legendary precursor items with a more “scavenger hunt” feel than they are acquired currently."

Yes the stats will be there, but they aren't that much greater. What I'm saying is that we'll only need to work for ascended items once. The only thing that will need constant upgrades will be the infusions, and only if we're planning to go deeper in the new dungeon.

If they start adding more and ascended more sets - apart from the one they already said they would add - with each new content patch with progressively better stats, believe me that's when I quit as well. But it hasn't happened so far, so we can't really do much except voice our concern in hopes that it will NEVER happen.

Edited by Heart Collector, 13 November 2012 - 10:29 AM.

[Flax]

"We have always worked hard to create a sense of satisfying progression rather than gear grind and this new item progression initiative is no exception."

Lot's of people seem worried that this update will be moving the game towards a gear treadmill. Anet knows that isn't what we want. If it somehow ends up being like that one day then they will make changes because they need us to keep playing.

For now it seems we'll have the option of gaining an extra 40ish stats by getting 2 new rings and a back item, which is hardly the end of the world.

Edited by Flax, 13 November 2012 - 10:33 AM.

[NachyoChez]

So you've got to earn the Ascended gear and craft the infusion just to progress in the dungeon.

If you can't see how MASSIVE a problem that is... I don't think we can even reach an understanding of the situation

[Shadow209]

So basically for me, the fact, they added this gear means, Anet completely changed their philosophy.
I liked the "exotic 80 is easy to get and then you don't need to grind" philosophy of GW2. Now they introduce a gear treadmill :/
Only rings though, but I think, they will keep adding stronger items now, as I said, this isn't only a little ring, but the first step of changing the game completely. I think this will get worse with every update from now.

For me this isn't a "motivation" to keep playing and get this stuff. It feels like I have to get it, maybe I'm just overambitious in games, but for me it feels like being forced into doing this specific task and I don't like this.
Getting dungeon armor was fun, because it feels like I don't need this, I only do it, because I like it - because it's fun.

Also the current "endgame" only gives you access to exotic gear. Now exotic isn't the strongest anymore. This means, instead of adding diversity to the endgame, the new dungeon is now the only endgame.

Congratulations Anet, you destroyed your own game. Well there are enough other games to play. No rage or QQ here, if I don't like it, I don't play it. Thats, why I didn't buy any EA-Games since the introduction of Origin.
I'm too old to play something, I don't like and then QQ because I don't like it.

Anyway, Minecraft 1.4.4 is coming, the update for the redpower mod won't take too long, I hope, so it's an almost perfect timing to stop playing gw2 now.

[Lordkrall]

NachyoChez, on 13 November 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

So you've got to earn the Ascended gear and craft the infusion just to progress in the dungeon.

If you can't see how MASSIVE a problem that is... I don't think we can even reach an understanding of the situation

Until we know the actual recipe for the Forge where you get the infusions it seems quite silly to assume it will be a problem.

What if you get all the materials needed while getting the gear?

[bdatty]

EDIT: I'm refering to stats sorry. I word it wrong.
Okay okay okay, don't lash out too hard on me, but let me get this straight. You guys really don't like this 'treadmill' item progress and rather sit still and farm titles and skins? Fat I say! How come you guys are not interested in improving and getting better. It's that mentality which gives player an edge and allow players to keep on playing. It's also how almost all games are designed whether indirectly or directly.

I think, at least in Guild Wars 2, it deserves more than that. To look at GW2 as casual (as it is at the moment) is to dismiss the complexity and visually stunning this game is by which disregards the formula of challenge & fun. Despite how you guys argue with this idea, they're going to add it. The end isn't finished boys and girls !

"As we release more new end game content in the future..."

Edited by bdatty, 13 November 2012 - 10:44 AM.

[Lordkrall]

I wonder how much whine there will be two weeks after the actual update is live.

People did behave exactly like this when exotics where revealed after all, and yet nowdays no one have a problem with them.

[Heart Collector]

NachyoChez, on 13 November 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

So you've got to earn the Ascended gear and craft the infusion just to progress in the dungeon.

If you can't see how MASSIVE a problem that is... I don't think we can even reach an understanding of the situation

That's what I'm saying: We'll only need to earn the Ascended armor once. The Infusion crafting is the "treadmill" part of the system, not the new armor type - so far. And the Infusion treadmill is required only for the later difficulties of that specific dungeon - again, so far.

As I said - I don't mind this system (if I've understood it correctly) as it doesn't affect my game beyind this one specific dungeon (and the stat increase is rather small, and I'd only need to work for it once). But if we start getting new ascended sets with progressively higher stats every few months - I will be just as disappointed as the rest of you.

[TheVice]

I'm devastated and disappointed in GW2 beyond any reason. I kept playing it only because I didn't have to worry about the gear, I already had best gear 3 weeks after release. I wasn't afraid that some preteen c**t would kill me because he has a whole tier better gear. I've lost all respect to anet in one day. I honestly feel like I'm in some nightmare atm.
I still have hope though that after all the negativity they already got (thanks ppl for that btw) they'll make this new gear same easy and cheap and available 100% through solo play, as exotics. Otherwise I'll have nothing left to do in this game. Farming dungeons and perform super hard tasks chasing carrot on a stick is not my thing. Not having an absolute bis gear is not for me either.

Btw lies lies and lies.
Even in this official post there are lies. Those 3 items alone would give a 39 extra stats and they said they gonna add more upgrades in the future. That's not a small upgrade. That's big.

Edit: typos. Yes, I'm really upset. These news ruin not only my day, the ruin my whole friggin' year.

Edited by TheVice, 13 November 2012 - 10:42 AM.

[RabidusIncendia]

bdatty, on 13 November 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

How come you guys are not interested in improving and getting better.

What does this have the slightest bit to do with a gear treadmill?  Really what does a gear treadmill have anything to do with skill or improvement?

[Mitsukake]

people over do this too much. just because they added something new makes everyone freaks the * out. i say take a *ing chill pill because far as you could know stats are are very small if anything like the weapons. no more then +3 stat change if similar. they are introducing this for those that do want to feel progression on there own character but it wont f'n matter in the end like all in all in gw1. it's not the end of the world for *s sake, to me the morals are still there.Just because they add 1 new set dose not mean it is a "tredmil", far as we know this could just *ing be the legendary armor set, derp.

[Heart Collector]

bdatty, on 13 November 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

Okay okay okay, don't lash out too hard on me, but let me get this straight. You guys really don't like this 'treadmill' item progress and rather sit still and farm titles and skins? Fat I say! How come you guys are not interested in improving and getting better. It's that mentality which gives player an edge and allow players to keep on playing. It's also how almost all games are designed whether indirectly or directly.

I think, at least in Guild Wars 2, it deserves more than that. To look at GW2 as casual (as it is at the moment) is to dismiss the complexity and visually stunning this game is by which disregards the formula of challenge & fun. Despite how you guys argue with this idea, they're going to add it. The end isn't finished boys and girls !

"As we release more new end game content in the future..."

People are upset because they feel that ANet is going against one of their core philosophies, and are worried about what it may entail later in the game - something I can understand even though I'm debating the issue with some of the worried players as we speak.

[Shadow209]

Lordkrall, on 13 November 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

People did behave exactly like this when exotics where revealed after all, and yet nowdays no one have a problem with them.

I didn't know, there was a time before exotics, though I bought the game at release. Was that during GW1 or during the GW2 beta?

Funny, I always thought the price differences between rare and exotic are too high and exotic should be cheaper to get, though thats something I wouldn't suggest witout a flame shield.

[Lady Rhonwyn]

Flax, on 13 November 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

"We have always worked hard to create a sense of satisfying progression rather than gear grind and this new item progression initiative is no exception."

Lot's of people seem worried that this update will be moving the game towards a gear treadmill. Anet knows that isn't what we want. If it somehow ends up being like that one day then they will make changes because they need us to keep playing.

For now it seems we'll have the option of gaining an extra 40ish stats by getting 2 new rings and a back item, which is hardly the end of the world.

It's not the end itself, but it is the beginning of the end.

And I don't understand that line you've quoted.  I read it and read it again, and every time I read it, I keep wondering.  First she says they don't want gear grind and then she says they will have gear grind?

bdatty, on 13 November 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

How come you guys are not interested in improving and getting better.

How is getting stronger items improving yourself?

Lordkrall, on 13 November 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

I wonder how much whine there will be two weeks after the actual update is live.

People did behave exactly like this when exotics where revealed after all, and yet nowdays no one have a problem with them.

I had a problem with that and still have a problem with that.  And that's why I have zero faith left in ANet to leave it at this.

[Roth]

Quote

This extremely dangerous condition ticks percentages of player health away and can’t be cleansed by normal means. Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must.

This is my biggest concern with the update now. If I'm going to be gated by a mechanic that, given Anets track record will require players to either get lucky with RNG (drop chance, forge) or chalk up and buy resistance items at a huge cost for this new damage mechanic, I simply won't bother with it.

A harder dungeon would have been more welcome than a poor gating mechanic.

[Lordkrall]

Shadow209, on 13 November 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

I didn't know, there was a time before exotics, though I bought the game at release. Was that during GW1 or during the GW2 beta?

Funny, I always thought the price differences between rare and exotic are too high and exotic should be cheaper to get, though thats something I wouldn't suggest witout a flame shield.

It was revealed rather close to release. And it opened up threads more or less exactly like this one. And yet most of the people saying they were going for a refund are still here today and complaining.

[bdatty]

Lady Rhonwyn, on 13 November 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

How is getting stronger items improving yourself?

RabidusIncendia, on 13 November 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

What does this have the slightest bit to do with a gear treadmill?  Really what does a gear treadmill have anything to do with skill or improvement?

Sorry if I didn't word it right, but I'm referring to stats and people worry about getting better with those stats.

The way I see it, new dungeon means a higher ladder to climb, from here on out. The rest of the current dungeons are just purely aesthetics and stat specific items. If they were to add a new dungeon with no change, then it'll be redundant. The said dungeon which will be released are sectioned off in small parts with difficulty. If that didn't happen then they could easily release 2 new dungeons with the same outcome; tokens, more work for them on skins.

Edited by bdatty, 13 November 2012 - 10:51 AM.

[Heart Collector]

Roth, on 13 November 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

This is my biggest concern with the update now. If I'm going to be gated by a mechanic that, given Anets track record will require players to either get lucky with RNG (drop chance, forge) or chalk up and buy resistance items at a huge cost for this new damage mechanic, I simply won't bother with it.

A harder dungeon would have been more welcome than a poor gating mechanic.

Hopefully they will add entirely new, harder but "traditional" GW2 dungeons apart from this new one later on. And besides, we will be able to do at least the earlier difficulties in this one!

[NachyoChez]

bdatty, on 13 November 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

Sorry if I didn't word it right, but I'm referring to stats and people worry about getting better with those stats. Also the fact that people are worried about being on par

I'm NOT trying to be snide, rude, or condescending.  I am actually asking this question because it's answer greatly impacts your statement about titles...  Did you play Guild Wars 1?

The reason I ask... yes.  Making a title for 1,000 Ogre kills is actually enough for me to go slaughter 1,000 Ogres.  Heck, sometime you should ask my wife about 'pumpkins' (I might have gotten a little crazy for that title).  It's something I can work towards, that I can show off, that I can be silly about.  But I never HAVE to do it.  I never HAVE to kill 1 single ogre to clear out every Risen in Orr.  To forge the mighty twilight.  To see Zhaitan fall.

Are you a Mark Twain fan?  My wife is pregnant, and we've decided on the name 'Sawyer', which has inspired me to dust the book off and give it a read.  There's a qoute that I just realized sums up my feelings perfectly:
'...Work consists of whatever a body is obliged to do and that Play consists of whatever a body is not obliged to do'.  Ascendant = Work.  Ogre Slayer = Play.

[Kymeric]

bdatty, on 13 November 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

I think, at least in Guild Wars 2, it deserves more than that. To look at GW2 as casual (as it is at the moment) is to dismiss the complexity and visually stunning this game is by which disregards the formula of challenge & fun. Despite how you guys argue with this idea, they're going to add it. The end isn't finished boys and girls !

"As we release more new end game content in the future..."

It wasn't that long ago they were boldly asserting that there was no "endgame", because the entire game was "endgame".

I didn't expect things to change so quickly.