57 replies to this topic

[Snapalope]

So I run dungeons with my guild a lot and more and more I'm leaning away from the great sword.  One reason in big fights the great sword offers no utility.  I always favor weapons that gives a lot of utility to my team.  My set up is usually double mace and hammer with the traits in each weapon running 10-0-30-30-0.

I really like those weapons because mace gives perma-weakness to enemies.  Weakness indirectly mitigates so much incoming damage as well as offers 2 reliable interupts.  Offhand mace has a great skill called tremors that is an area of effect knockdown again offers a lot of utility.  Hammer is my second weapon because Earthshaker is just too good.  Having a huge AoE stun as well as a blast finisher is very beneficial to the team.  Not to mention that a very large AoE cripple to help control fast moving mobs in dungeons.  I got my dungeon master using this set up a month ago and I really suggest warriors stop using great sword and look into other weapons.  The great sword is nice and all at leveling and just face rolling when mapping, but in my opinion there are better alternatives in dungeons.

[adra12]

My only issue with your post is that CC and mitigation are virtually useless for bosses and mace/hammer are entirely those 2. I love that hammer and dual maces but would never suggest using both of them at the same time in a dungeon because for boss fights the extra damage of a GS or axe or sword is very helpful or the range of a rifle/longbow can be necessary.

[Ryoto]

I only really use GS for mindless farming. I like to use mace+sword for dungeons along with mace+shield for a bit more survival.

[Snapalope]

adra12, on 12 November 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

My only issue with your post is that CC and mitigation are virtually useless for bosses and mace/hammer are entirely those 2. I love that hammer and dual maces but would never suggest using both of them at the same time in a dungeon because for boss fights the extra damage of a GS or axe or sword is very helpful or the range of a rifle/longbow can be necessary.

I would say no because from my dungeon experiences mace and hammer chew through 5 stacks extremely fast.  You can force you way through and let other teammates CC the boss or you do it yourself.  Well timed interupts on bosses does matter.

Edited by Snapalope, 12 November 2012 - 04:40 PM.

[Shoros]

No, you are not the only one. Even though my warrior twink is only level 46, I'm already getting tired of the greatsword. I don't know, but it's kind of boring and I feel 90% of the warriors are running around with greatswords.

Well, I use Axe/Axe at the moment for PvE and I really like it (of course A/A is also very prominent). I used A/M for a while and also liked it - the tremor can come in very handy, especially vs. a group of mobs.

[dawdler]

I am finding the greatsword incredibly boring on my Warrior. Its not quite so much as hate... its just boring. I prefer axe/axe (if you want the AoE) axe/mace or sword/mace and any of the previous combinations with sheild. Mace/sheild is reserved for the moments when I want to engage bosses and laugh at other players dying like flies around me. I dont even see what the big deal is with 100b - the axe seem to auto-attack about as fast so its not really much of a "burst" in comparison.

Edited by dawdler, 12 November 2012 - 07:52 PM.

[SpelignErrir]

YOU ARE NOT ALOOOONE

[ck64]

The better alternative is Axe/Whatever.

[Jobuu]

i like sword/axe and bow. with the AOE from the adrenaline bow attack special thing you can sword 2 charge in for a fire shield and 5 axe whirl around for aoe fireball things and do lots of dmg.only 35 so far but liking it way more than GS

[Shoros]

Hammer is also extremely fun and very effective.

[Millimidget]

Can't stand the things; quite comfortable with the size of my junk, and don't need an oversized phallus to make me feel more of a man.

Edited by Millimidget, 12 November 2012 - 11:47 PM.

[Mootillay]

The greatsword has a small amount of utility in the vulnerability application of the 1 slot.  Beyond that, it's pretty much a spam the 2 slot DPS weapon.  It might be boring to use and it's slightly annoying to think about the number of glass cannon warriors out there solely sporting greatswords, but it's still pretty good all the same.. if only for Hundred Blades.

As for your hammer/dual mace setup, there are many bosses/champs/elites that are essentially immune to stun-like effects.  The skills still interrupt upon usage, but won't disable the more resilient dungeon foes.  So I think it's kind of a toss-up as to the value of being a stun bot in PvE.  The mace is probably better in this regard because pommel bash/skull crack are much more immediate.  Frankly, I don't think the hammer is that good at all in PvE, if you can't abuse earthshaker.. what's the point?  I *loved* this skill in GW1, but the GW1 hammer was a pain train and those days are frankly gone.

Dual maces + support.. I get that, that makes perfect sense to me.. but uh.. how bout a ranged weapon?

[Brand]

First of all let me say that I am a little bit annoyed with the amount of people who don't notice the Greatsword's true potential. Obviously 5 signet is a common build to see a GS warrior with, and that is bad and upsetting. However, there are plenty of "Great" support builds out there that use a Greatsword for the extra damage or etc it gives you. Personally the Greatsword is my favorite weapon, I find it fun and challenging, and I'll tell you why:

1) The auto attack applies vulnerability. This in and of itself is a huge boost to party dps, and a very viable reason to use the GS. How many other auto attacks increase your entire party's dps output by 8% constantly?
2) Hundred Blades is a heavy damage ability that causes many crits. It's a great skill for supplementing damage, but everyone seems to forget one little detail. It's freaking hard to use effectively, how many bosses or even mobs do you know where you can just stand still and attack it? You need pretty good timing to land all of the hits on 100B before some idiot punts it with their hammer, or the enemy uses an AoE on you that you need to evade.
3) Whirlwind attack is magnificent. A free double range dodge roll that does high damage? What's not to love? This skill synergizes amazingly with the rest of the kit. Using 100B and need to move? Use it to get out of there. Hell, even if you want to use it for some extra damage it's great. Use it at the enemy and then Rush back to the enemy, causing high damage. Not to mention it's an AoE goldmine.
4) Bladetrail is a very underrated skill, but consider this. You can use Bladetrail at an enemy behind you while running away/kiting. This causes a double cripple to anything chasing you. You can also use it to cripple an enemy chasing a party member that you aren't close to. Short of switching to your rifle I believe this is the only ranged cripple we have, and definitely the only one you can use on enemies that are behind you.
5) Rush is your basic mobility skill, if you need to move faster, you Whirlwind + Rush. Saves a lot of time when you are running back to a boss fight you died in. Rush also does some good damage, so you can use it in conjunction with Whirlwind to put some damage on the enemy, like I said earlier.

Basically, the entire GS kit is highly synergistic. Your only real attack is 100B, encouraging you to use auto attack during most of it's down time. This encourages team support, as vulnerability helps everyone. Whirlwind, Bladetrail, and Rush are very nice utility skills, and work very well together to kite a boss or evade attacks/AoEs. And on top of all of that, they made the F1 skill blow, therefore just for not using your crappy F1 you can get 9% crit, 12% damage and a 9k heal (I'm not sure how Eviscerate compares to all that, but I can't see it being that much better).

The only time a Greatsword isn't a good weapon, is when a less than intelligent individual is using it to power up his signet build. It gives you heavy might stacks, excellent support (Even without control, which is useless on boss fights), high damage, a free dodge, and lots of overall utility. You just need to learn how to use it the right way.

Please refer to my Sonic Boon build if you would like an excellent example of how to use a GS to it's max potential, supporting your team and still doing high and heavy damage. You shouldn't hate the Greatsword, and you shouldn't hate people who use it, you should only hate the people who are using it wrong and selfishly.

Seeing less Greatsword Warriors? Not something I'd be happy with.
Seeing less dumb people? Yes, please!

[Helexax]

Brand, on 13 November 2012 - 04:20 AM, said:

4) Bladetrail is a very underrated skill, but consider this. You can use Bladetrail at an enemy behind you while running away/kiting. This causes a double cripple to anything chasing you. You can also use it to cripple an enemy chasing a party member that you aren't close to. Short of switching to your rifle I believe this is the only ranged cripple we have, and definitely the only one you can use on enemies that are behind you.

I believe Axe #3 cripples.

[Brand]

Helexax, on 13 November 2012 - 04:27 AM, said:

I believe Axe #3 cripples.

I'm a little bit disappointed that after all that I put up you take out one little bit of information and comment on it. However, just tested it, Axe 3 does cripple at range, but you can not use it while facing the other direction/running away from the enemy. Like I said:

Brand, on 13 November 2012 - 04:20 AM, said:

Short of switching to your rifle I believe this is the only ranged cripple we have, and definitely the only one you can use on enemies that are behind you.

[KrayZ33]

I'm bored of GS too but atm its the only way to go in terms of damage, even if you want to go support GS is still great

the only other build I can think of is a very, very supportive hammer / mace, mace build (0,0,20,30,20) with full cleric gear and "on weapon swap sigils"
or a shaman's gear - Longbow build (again very supportive) for group might stacks and great heals


whenever I'm trying to come up with anything else I feel like "meh, your standard GS build can do this better"

Edited by KrayZ33, 13 November 2012 - 05:17 AM.

[MrCats]

The GS just wrecks face in the damage department for PvE that it's very difficult to pass up on.

[Wolfgang]

Brand, on 13 November 2012 - 04:20 AM, said:

Basically, the entire GS kit is highly synergistic. Your only real attack is 100B, encouraging you to use auto attack during most of it's down time. This encourages team support, as vulnerability helps everyone. Whirlwind, Bladetrail, and Rush are very nice utility skills, and work very well together to kite a boss or evade attacks/AoEs. And on top of all of that, they made the F1 skill blow, therefore just for not using your crappy F1 you can get 9% crit, 12% damage and a 9k heal (I'm not sure how Eviscerate compares to all that, but I can't see it being that much better).

Seeing less Greatsword Warriors? Not something I'd be happy with.
Seeing less dumb people? Yes, please!

I think you're missing the point, yes those are the advantages of the GS and it does nasty damage but OP states that it doesn't offer group utility like other weapons unless you specifically spec for a shout build (which any weaponset can be built around). A hammer warrior jumps in and earthshakers a group of enemies to get them off your allies followed with weaken, knockdown, cripple, etc. Axe/mace can instantly stack 8 vulnerability with low CD, with tremor and still maintain good damage (if not more). GS warrior whirlwinds/rushes in then hundred blades and auto-attacks to stack vulnerability and that's it. GS on its own is frankly a very solo orientated weapon. You could say dealing high damage with the GS while using a shout build is 'support' but its not what it's made for.

[chullster]

I would use a GS if the skills weren't so boring, sound effects so weak and skins for the weapon were so stupid looking (over-sized burger flippers for the most part), so no, you're not alone.

I use hammer and sword/shield combo for PvE and WvW. I could tell you why I prefer them, but why bother? people should pick stuff they like.

I'll leave GS to those with no aesthetic taste and/or the window licker part of the community.

PS. @Brand

Stop spamming your build in every thread, you're like some annoying commercial. Same goes for everyone else who makes a big long post with pretty pictures and explains which end of the weapon is the dangerous one, names it something silly then proceeds to spam all the threads attempting to become the next Sabway or something.

Just post the build in a thread, then maintain that thread.

[Brand]

Vulnerability is in fact team support and group utility, also add in the fact the you get a spin combo (Often cleansing allies with a guardian on your team). The high damage of the Greatsword allows you to pull of a damage/support build a lot easier than other weapons, you don't have to put as much into your damage.

When you say "Any other weapon can be built around a support build" you are fairly mistaken. While it is POSSIBLE to do such with all weapons, it is almost never viable. You can throw a Greatsword, or Axe/Axe, or whatever onto a full Cleric's Vigorous Shout build, but it's not going to help you at all. It's just going to be watering down your otherwise maximized team support, and barely adding any damage. Just because you can build a support build around a weapon doesn't mean it will be effective.

My Sonic Boon build is one of the very few builds that gives you great damage, good support, and good survivability. The reason for this is that you use the Forceful Greatsword trait and specific runes to stack might up to a constant 25. The lack of a good burst allows you to grab the 9% crit, 12% damage, and 9k heal that I talked about earlier. Due to your 25 stacks of might and the power of the Greatsword, you can run a support build without having worthless heals.

You are limiting your idea of team support to the weapon itself (Even though GS supplies much more support than some other weapons, such as Rifle or Axe/Axe) when in fact it should encompass the builds that work well with the weapon as well. If Mace/Mace didn't have any build that worked with it, then the support potential of such a weapon choice would be of little importance. Greatsword can work in a build as a team support weapon, without destroying your damage. That's more than can be said about Rifle, Axe/Axe, Sword/Sword, or any combination therein.

I'd also like to point out that while Axe/Mace has two 4 vulnerability skills, you cannot keep a constant 8 stacks on the target. Axe gives 4 for 8 seconds on a 6 second CD, Mace gives 4 for 10 seconds on a 15 second CD. At any given time you have 4, 8, or 12 stacks of vulnerability. Spending 60% of the time at 8, 30% at 4, and 10% at 12. That is most certainly not a constant 8 stacks.

I also just spoke of the difficulties in preforming a full 100B without dying, and the fact that anyone who just "whirlwinds/rushes in then hundred blades and auto-attacks to stack vulnerability" isn't using the weapon to its full potential, and is probably not very good.

chullster, on 13 November 2012 - 10:52 AM, said:

I would use a GS if the skills weren't so boring, sound effects so weak and skins for the weapon were so stupid looking (over-sized burger flippers for the most part), so no, you're not alone.

I use hammer and sword/shield combo for PvE and WvW. I could tell you why I prefer them, but why bother? people should pick stuff they like.

I'll leave GS to those with no aesthetic taste and/or the window licker part of the community.

PS. @Brand

Stop spamming your build in every thread, you're like some annoying commercial. Same goes for everyone else who makes a big long post with pretty pictures and explains which end of the weapon is the dangerous one, names it something silly then proceeds to spam all the threads attempting to become the next Sabway or something.

Just post the build in a thread, then maintain that thread.

Contrary to popular belief, I am not posting my build for the benefit of myself. I would like to see other people using this build, bringing team support, and giving the Greatsword its good name back. The only reason I posted it in this thread was to illustrate a point, and the majority of the time I post it, someone was looking for a build such as Sonic Boon. As for your comment on "everyone else who makes a big long post with pretty pictures and explains which end of the weapon is the dangerous one", I believe what you are referring to is called intellectual discussion, theory crafting, or (God forbid!) explaining the facets of a weapon/build to someone who just happens to not be as worldly as yourself. If you don't like long posts that thoroughly explain a concept, perhaps you should step out of the forums.

P.S. I do have a thread, and I do maintain it. The link is actually a link to the Sonic Boon thread on this very forum.

Edited by Brand, 13 November 2012 - 11:19 AM.

[TheVice]

Yes you are alone. Greatswords are huge and cool. The only thing more badass than a greatsword, imo, is a greataxe.

[radamant]

Snapalope, on 12 November 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

So I run dungeons with my guild a lot and more and more I'm leaning away from the great sword.  One reason in big fights the great sword offers no utility.  I always favor weapons that gives a lot of utility to my team.  My set up is usually double mace and hammer with the traits in each weapon running 10-0-30-30-0.

I really like those weapons because mace gives perma-weakness to enemies.  Weakness indirectly mitigates so much incoming damage as well as offers 2 reliable interupts.  Offhand mace has a great skill called tremors that is an area of effect knockdown again offers a lot of utility.  Hammer is my second weapon because Earthshaker is just too good.  Having a huge AoE stun as well as a blast finisher is very beneficial to the team.  Not to mention that a very large AoE cripple to help control fast moving mobs in dungeons.  I got my dungeon master using this set up a month ago and I really suggest warriors stop using great sword and look into other weapons.  The great sword is nice and all at leveling and just face rolling when mapping, but in my opinion there are better alternatives in dungeons.

Looking at your traits setup, i`d assume that you run healing shouts, something like shake it off, fgj and on my mark? If so, you already offer a lot to a team. By using gs you also can bring some damage to the table too.. I personally never tried hammer in dungeons, just in wvw where you can stun a whole zerg, but i believe it can be extra useful in dungeons too. Either way, you will contribute either through damage (gs) or through stuns/rupts/kd`s with mace/hammer. Depends on how bored you are with current thing and want to try something else.

[Mournblade]

I hate GS (for warrior) - partly because i'm not skilled enough to play it well, but also partly because I need a change. My guardian is all GS, so I wanted something different for my warrior. I'm loving the hammer - I make THEM go flying all over instead of ME going wizzing off at odd angles during a fight.

[Brand]

Mournblade, on 13 November 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

I hate GS (for warrior) - partly because i'm not skilled enough to play it well, but also partly because I need a change. My guardian is all GS, so I wanted something different for my warrior. I'm loving the hammer - I make THEM go flying all over instead of ME going wizzing off at odd angles during a fight.

Personally I hate having to chase my enemies around I think that might be a lot of what it comes down to here, whether you like mobility, or like keeping enemies immobile. Also the "whizzing off at odd angles" can be simply fixed by using Rush directly after you use Whirlwind Attack. It's faster, easier, and does more damage than running back to your target and you don't even need to turn the camera. It also makes for a crazy fast, damage dealing evasion tactic if you use it right.

Edited by Brand, 13 November 2012 - 02:26 PM.

[Wolfgang]

Brand, on 13 November 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

I'd also like to point out that while Axe/Mace has two 4 vulnerability skills, you cannot keep a constant 8 stacks on the target. Axe gives 4 for 8 seconds on a 6 second CD, Mace gives 4 for 10 seconds on a 15 second CD. At any given time you have 4, 8, or 12 stacks of vulnerability. Spending 60% of the time at 8, 30% at 4, and 10% at 12. That is most certainly not a constant 8 stacks.

Context! Though the might stack with GS is a real nice trait, as soon as you stop attacking to dodge or use the rifle it depreciates very quickly. Same with the vulnerability issue, axe/mace get 8 stacks instantly then burst/get out after, while GS you have to keep attacking to stack 6-7, as soon as you stop (starting your 100b/getting out) it goes down fast.

Brand, on 13 November 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

When you say "Any other weapon can be built around a support build" you are fairly mistaken. While it is POSSIBLE to do such with all weapons, it is almost never viable. You can throw a Greatsword, or Axe/Axe, or whatever onto a full Cleric's Vigorous Shout build, but it's not going to help you at all. It's just going to be watering down your otherwise maximized team support, and barely adding any damage. Just because you can build a support build around a weapon doesn't mean it will be effective.

You could easily run another weaponset with your 'boon' build and still get heaps of might stacks off FGJ and SoR and not need 20 trait points in precision that you can put elsewhere for better damage or toughness, since the condi damage and the minor traits from precision are pretty useless. Other than that you give exactly the same boons/heals to allies. In theory you could put 10 points in discipline for permanent SoR buffs, power or defense (toughness/better heals)

I can tell you now my axe/shield autoattack does more than my GS 100b in the same time, doesn't root me in place or have CD. I don't need to have 'the difficulties of performing a full 100bs' I can just shield stance or dodge roll out mid-attack. Don't get me wrong your GS build syngerises great, but the fact is you need to be attacking all the time to maximise the might and vulnerability makes other weaponsets just as viable in a 'high damage/support' style.

edit: spelling

Edited by Wolfgang, 13 November 2012 - 10:55 PM.

[Lucav]

Greatsword is an amazing weapon with excellent damage, talents to support it, and aesthetics. With that being said, it can become boring if you use it too much.

Wolfgang, on 13 November 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

You could easily run another weaponset with your 'boon' build and still get heaps of might stacks off FGJ and SoR and not need 20 trait points in precision that you can put elsewhere for better damage or toughness, since the condi damage and the minor traits from precision are pretty useless. Other than that you give exactly the same boons/heals to allies. In theory you could put 10 points in discipline for permanent SoR buffs, power or defense (toughness/better heals)

8 stacks of might is not 25, and the minor traits from precision are some of the best in the game.

Edited by Lucav, 14 November 2012 - 02:43 AM.

[Brand]

Wolfgang, on 13 November 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

Context! Though the might stack with GS is a real nice trait, as soon as you stop attacking to dodge or use the rifle it depreciates very quickly. Same with the vulnerability issue, axe/mace get 8 stacks instantly then burst/get out after, while GS you have to keep attacking to stack 6-7, as soon as you stop (starting your 100b/getting out) it goes down fast.

You could easily run another weaponset with your 'boon' build and still get heaps of might stacks off FGJ and SoR and not need 20 trait points in precision that you can put elsewhere for better damage or toughness, since the condi damage and the minor traits from precision are pretty useless. Other than that you give exactly the same boons/heals to allies. In theory you could put 10 points in discipline for permanent SoR buffs, power or defense (toughness/better heals)

I can tell you now my axe/shield autoattack does more than my GS 100b in the same time, doesn't root me in place or have CD. I don't need to have 'the difficulties of performing a full 100bs' I can just shield stance or dodge roll out mid-attack. Don't get me wrong your GS build syngerises great, but the fact is you need to be attacking all the time to maximise the might and vulnerability makes other weaponsets just as viable in a 'high damage/support' style.

First of all, the point I was making was that if you were constantly auto attacking with the GS you get 8 stacks of might, if you constantly use your skills with Axe/Mace you get less than that. These values will remain fairly constant in a battle scenario. If you want to talk context, while my stacks Vulnerability fall down to 4 during my 100B, they also go up to 12 or higher, due to crits. Your Axe/Mace build would likely not have that.

Secondly, the Might stacks in my build DO NOT fall off quickly after you 100B, they are on you almost permanently due to Boon and Might duration. Also, my build does not have a measly 8 (Sometimes 11) stacks from using FGJ/SoR, it has the full 25 stacks nigh constantly. If you were to use this build for Axe/Mace, you would be grabbing Boon/Might duration that you don't need, stacking Might that you can't even come close to maxing out, and overall wasting your abilities.

Also, I already have nigh permanent SoR buffs, my toughness is very high, and my healing is also good. All the while doing a crap load of damage. The fact that your Axe autoattack does more damage than your 100B is in context with your build. My 100B does much more damage than your Axe autoattack, in half the time. Not only that, but 100B is an AoE cleave, like all Greatsword skills (Meaning I hit any targets within a large arc around the front of my character), and it's very nature allows it to crit many times during its use.

Lastly, as Lucav stated, the Arms minor traits are some of the best the warrior class has. Not only this, but you NEED the 20 points in Arms in order for this build to work at all, as you need the Forceful Greatsword trait. Forceful Greatsword gives you Might every time you crit, making it possible to get 25 stacks of Might, a feat that is impossible for any other weapon set. You should really read up about the Sonic Boon build, before you criticize it and say that "Anything you can do, I can do better."

Edited by Brand, 14 November 2012 - 05:26 AM.

[Bluetalon_TOG]

I've been running a variation of the Sonic Boon, which I call the Warrior Poet. 0/30/0/30/10, all shout traits, vulnerability, forceful GS, quickness in arms and +crit chance in discipline.

It hits like a truck through forceful greatsword and skill 1, 2 and 3, aswell as gives shout heals.

Ive used and quite like sword as a main hand and my guildie has an amazing Axe/Axe glass cannon build that completely destroys people. But I always come back to the GS. Until I get a GreatAxe, I will continue to use the GS.

Stop complaining, a Hammer is a great weapon that sacrifices some DPS for CC, Mace/Mace or similar is more single target CC, axe anything consistant dps for glass cannons with great mobile AOE potential and sword anything is bleed-king.

The reason you dont like the GS is because it is a good weapon that everone uses for PVE.

[Brand]

Bluetalon_TOG, on 14 November 2012 - 05:30 AM, said:

I've been running a variation of the Sonic Boon, which I call the Warrior Poet. 0/30/0/30/10, all shout traits, vulnerability, forceful GS, quickness in arms and +crit chance in discipline.

It hits like a truck through forceful greatsword and skill 1, 2 and 3, aswell as gives shout heals.

Firstly, you could be talking about Furious Speed or Last Chance. Furious Speed gives Swiftness, not Quickness. If you are in fact talking about Last Chance, it should be known that the trait really isn't worth it, especially since you don't need any extra speed with Sonic Boon. You almost have the enemy dead anyway, and chances are the trait will be flat out wasted on anything other than bosses. When bosses come into play (And all the other times) surely a constant 12% bonus to damage is much better than a 4 second quickness buff that happens once during boss fights and is wasted most of the other times. No?

Regardless, I urge you to come post on the Sonic Boon thread, and we can discuss your build further.

[Wolfgang]

First I said minor traits [10 arms] bleed on crit - difficult to stack and does negligible damage without condition damage [15 arms] burst skills have 10% increased critical chance? You said yourself GS burst is useless. also I got 14 stacks of might, plus in dungeons you get to 20-25 from your group either way (maybe not in pugs lol).

I did look at your build, I tried it and tested the boon duration and everything to see if it was all the rage. I don't feel like dragging this on any longer because you sound like a GS elitist and its getting off track but I said in context, you rapture about is keeping might stacks and vulnerability up. In dungeons you are constantly dodging, that's when vulnerability and might depreciates, each stack has its own counter.

You need to auto attack to get a bunch of stacks up, then get perfect positioning and timing so that when you 100b you don't get facerolled by the boss. I never said "anything you can do, I can do better," I just don't think its that great in a group and I'll rest my case there.