399 replies to this topic

[BrettM]

There are so many jokers in this woodpile that it's hard to know where to begin. Shayne Hawke and shanaeri rynale did a beautiful job of covering the major problems and answering those who try to trivialize this announcement with thinking such as "it's just one dungeon" or "the stat increases are insignificant" or "it's just like GW1." There's no point in my repeating what they've already said so eloquently.

There are a couple of other items, though, that haven't been mentioned much so far.

First, am I the only one made nervous by the mention of Offensive Infusions? What will these add? Stat increases? Special procs like summoning 15 Rockdogs when Downed? For that matter, the infusion against Agony is only ONE of the Defensive Infusions. You don't need a class name for a set that only has a single member. What are the others? Will there be general armor boosters, for example? These infusions have the potential to be pretty game-changing, so I can't help but feel apprehensive about the details considering the objectionable nature of what has been revealed.

Second, what about gear crafting? Is there much point in getting a discipline to level 400 now other than being able to craft Gifts for Legenaries? We were already in a position where most everything we can make sells for less than what we could get by selling the mats that went into it. But at least we could produce items with stats as good as anything obtainable from other sources, including Legendaries, even if we couldn't produce some of the desirable stat combos such as Power/Toughness/Vitality gear. Now that will change so we'll be producing gear with skins nobody wants that have stats nobody wants, while everyone runs off to chuck items into the Mystic Forge -- no leveling required -- to get what IS wanted, while sinking more gold into Elonian Wine, Stones, Crystals, and other such incidentals instead of into the pockets of crafters. Crafting was already not as relevant as pre-release info led us to believe it would be, and now it looks like it will slide into near pointlessness.

[SZSSZS]

SlappedYak, on 13 November 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

HAPPY Firstly, I was only cross with "new gear tier" if it buffed normal stats (therefore making it more "compulsory" to get for higher end  areas/events/dungeons etc) BUT I'm glad to see it will be like the old gw1 infusion, in that it only buffs against one skill (agony...do I sense a major hint at the return of the mursaaat? :DD)

God I hope they look good tho xD can't face one more hideous "elite" armor skin

Ascended items indeed have better stats in addition to potential infusion slots. Take a look at that ascended ring.

Edited by SZSSZS, 13 November 2012 - 11:48 AM.

[Noob On Steroid]

This is a joke.

I have nothing against a new high-level PvE condition that can be countered with special PvE trinkets that have an "elevated" gear tier.
But why would you want to make them with slightly better stats than your current highest tier combo (exotic/legendary)?

It makes absolutely no sense and I'm highly disappointed in Anet.

Edited by Noob On Steroid, 13 November 2012 - 11:48 AM.

[Lordkrall]

BrettM, on 13 November 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

There are so many jokers in this woodpile that it's hard to know where to begin. Shayne Hawke and shanaeri rynale did a beautiful job of covering the major problems and answering those who try to trivialize this announcement with thinking such as "it's just one dungeon" or "the stat increases are insignificant" or "it's just like GW1." There's no point in my repeating what they've already said so eloquently.

There are a couple of other items, though, that haven't been mentioned much so far.

First, am I the only one made nervous by the mention of Offensive Infusions? What will these add? Stat increases? Special procs like summoning 15 Rockdogs when Downed? For that matter, the infusion against Agony is only ONE of the Defensive Infusions. You don't need a class name for a set that only has a single member. What are the others? Will there be general armor boosters, for example? These infusions have the potential to be pretty game-changing, so I can't help but feel apprehensive about the details considering the objectionable nature of what has been revealed.

Second, what about gear crafting? Is there much point in getting a discipline to level 400 now other than being able to craft Gifts for Legenaries? We were already in a position where most everything we can make sells for less than what we could get by selling the mats that went into it. But at least we could produce items with stats as good as anything obtainable from other sources, including Legendaries, even if we couldn't produce some of the desirable stat combos such as Power/Toughness/Vitality gear. Now that will change so we'll be producing gear with skins nobody wants that have stats nobody wants, while everyone runs off to chuck items into the Mystic Forge -- no leveling required -- to get what IS wanted, while sinking more gold into Elonian Wine, Stones, Crystals, and other such incidentals instead of into the pockets of crafters. Crafting was already not as relevant as pre-release info led us to believe it would be, and now it looks like it will slide into near pointlessness.

Source? I was under the impression that ALL infusion had to do with Agony.
What if the different kinds simply are:
Defensive:
1: +15 toughness against Agony
2: +10 vitality against Agony
3: 10% chance to gain Regeneration when struck by Agony

Offensive:

1:  +15 power when striking an Agony-foe
2: + 10 precision  when striking an Agony-foe
3: 10% chance to gain Might when striking an Agony-foe


For all we know this is exactly how they would be built. Why assume they will effect things outside of Agony?

They have never stated that the only way to get this gear will be via the dungeon.

[SirGamesalot]

The stats are pretty much the same anyways... I really hope none of this is obtainable with gold though.

[HawkofStorms]

Lol.  Love the complaints about power creep when they say point blank that legendaries are still better.  So it's power creep to add new items to the game that are weaker then existing items?

[Andlát]

HawkofStorms, on 13 November 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

Lol.  Love the complaints about power creep when they say point blank that legendaries are still better.  So it's power creep to add new items to the game that are weaker then existing items?

Currently:

Legendary stats = Exotic stats.

After the update:

Legendary stats = Ascended stats > Exotic stats.

In terms of rarity:

Legendary > Ascended > Exotic.

So Ascended weapons are easier to get than Legendaries, thus are less rare, but in terms of stats they are the same.

Edited by Andlát, 13 November 2012 - 12:04 PM.

[Coren]

Mordachai1977, on 13 November 2012 - 09:23 AM, said:

And while they keep searching for people to join their group, you come along and start a group with the perfectly fine people they rejected... Might even be done with the dungeon before they even get in.

Very sensible. +1 to you sir.

[Proxenos]

cospaok, on 13 November 2012 - 05:14 AM, said:

When it becomes apparent that you need Ascended gear to find a group to get the Ascended gear, the real shitstorm will begin. It's like finding a group on your alt to do AC exp at level 35.

I played SWTOR, and there you havd to get 2 different sets of armor, one for PvP and one for PvE, as there were different stats for PvP and PvE. But it didn't stop there, you had 3 tiers of gear, and, if having tier 1 gear in PvP would get you killed alot, and you had to grind for weeks to get to tier 2, even more for tier 3, in PvE you could take part only in a fraction of the endgame without the appropriate gear, and that killed all the fun! It seems GW2 is going down the slope with this move! I don't like it...

Edited by Proxenos, 13 November 2012 - 12:12 PM.

[ToySoldier]

BrettM, on 13 November 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

First, am I the only one made nervous by the mention of Offensive Infusions? What will these add? Stat increases? Special procs like summoning 15 Rockdogs when Downed? For that matter, the infusion against Agony is only ONE of the Defensive Infusions.

In the future there may be Dizziness (without defense your character passes out on the ground), MindControl (without defense you attack your group), Screamer (without defense you auto scream all the time and drive your group mates crazy).

And each time, if we don't own the right set of gear to defend ourselves, we're going to be unable to beat the content.  Hopefully GW2 won't become a game of gear set collections.  Unfortunately, even now there are needs for various gear sets. Atm the gear sets are more traditional stats.

It's just odd to have an effect where the whole purpose is to negate it with a new set of gear.  I play to relax after work, not to be tortured by these crazy effects when some players feel they need new "gear progression".  If a designer expects me to pay to negate this kind of "un-fun", no thanks.  Lol.

Gimme new landscape, new layouts, new interesting looking mobs.  A fantasy world.  In fact, if ANet needs revenue or players need something new to attain, make utility skills that will negate these effects so players can equip those skills.  This skill can then be sold in the gem store, and earned in game through drops.  Just an idea here.  I think more skills against monster skills might be fun if handled right, and a lot of people may not mind spending a buck to attain a skill.

Still, it needs to be done with entertainment in mind, and not torture.

Edited by ToySoldier, 13 November 2012 - 12:27 PM.

[Briar]

Quote

In terms of rarity, Ascended items fall between Exotic and Legendary.

In terms of stats Ascended items fall above legendary, as legendarys have exotic stats

We shall now rename the rarity ladder to reflect this change

Common
Uncommon
....
Exotic
Really Grindy Exotic
Ascended

Kurosov, on 13 November 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

That's these problem. Those who like progression will have it done and be "bored" again in no time. Will they then pander to them again and add yet another tier of gear? Trying to please such a crowd while ignoring the rest is an immensely stupid idea as they will never be satisfied.

QFT

Why try to applease said people, they are like ravenous animals who will only be asking for more in a few weeks. Keep it the way it is; do not alianate your (seemingly larger) playerbase of people who like it the way it is.

Also why do you think that GW2 needs more grind, IMO it is already very grindy the only thing to do when you reach max level is to grind even more. First you gind for MF Gear, then for stats, then for looks, then for even more gear if you want to try more builds, then for even more looks if you also want said gear to look good, then you grind for legendary weapons IE even better looks.

All of this in a game seemingly designed to be alt friendly? phhhtt

people do not want more grind, they want more content - and frankly if they have blown through everything already they deserve to wait. NO ONE can create content fast enough to satiate the hardcore. Anyone who trys will wreck there own game END OF STORY

/end rant

Edited by Briar, 13 November 2012 - 12:25 PM.

[Faowri]

Arngrim Einheri, on 13 November 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

Legendaries getting suddenly improved to match ascended stats ... meh.  I pity the people who transmuted legendaries with exotic stats.

Oh my god, I never even thought of that :\ I would ragequit right there.

[ilr]

It's PvP'ers that I feel bad for.... not even getting a nod from Anet anymore while PvE is getting tons of this fluff they didn't even ask for.

[Noob On Steroid]

Briar, on 13 November 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

In terms of stats Ascended items fall above legendary, as legendarys have exotic stats

Not really, the post states that Legendary items will be scaled upwards to be on par with Ascended gear, as to not break their promise that Legendary will always have the best stats. Why they felt the need to scale up in the first place, is a mystery.

Edited by Noob On Steroid, 13 November 2012 - 12:30 PM.

[Lordkrall]

Briar, on 13 November 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

In terms of stats Ascended items fall above legendary, as legendarys have exotic stats

We shall now rename the rarity ladder to reflect this change

Common
Uncommon
....
Exotic
Really Grindy Exotic
Ascended

And yet if you actually read the information available you will see that they are bumping Legendaries up to the same level as Ascended weapons when they become available.

[Andlát]

ilr, on 13 November 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

It's PvP'ers that I feel bad for.... not even getting a nod from Anet anymore while PvE is getting tons of this fluff they didn't even ask for.

Well, we got paid tournies and we are getting a new map (for hot joins, but will still be fun... for some time). Hopefully, with the coming updates a lot of class bugs will be fixed as well.

Skill templates and observer mode are the two things I wait with the greatest impatience, though...

Edited by Andlát, 13 November 2012 - 12:35 PM.

[Lordkrall]

ilr, on 13 November 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

It's PvP'ers that I feel bad for.... not even getting a nod from Anet anymore while PvE is getting tons of this fluff they didn't even ask for.

Hmm? I suppose you must have missed the whole new map with new features added with the update?

[quantum712]

ogrejd, on 13 November 2012 - 04:55 AM, said:

Joy. Gear treadmill. Just what they promised GW2 wouldn't have.

^^^^

Sucks don't it!

so in a nut shell you "HAVE" to use this gear...

"This extremely dangerous condition ticks percentages of player health away and can’t be cleansed by normal means."

[Lordkrall]

quantum712, on 13 November 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

^^^^

Sucks don't it!

so in a nut shell you "HAVE" to use this gear...

"This extremely dangerous condition ticks percentages of player health away and can’t be cleansed by normal means."

Indeed you have to use the gear for the HARDEST part of a specific dungeon.
Oh the horror!
It is not like we can get that gear from the easier parts of that dungeon.

Oh wait..

[quantum712]

Lordkrall, on 13 November 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

Indeed you have to use the gear for the HARDEST part of a specific dungeon.
Oh the horror!
It is not like we can get that gear from the easier parts of that dungeon.

Oh wait..

Yeah sure it's a great idea!

Untill they introduce the next [insert new damage type here] which also needs the infusion slot.

Dunno about you but bag/bank storage space is at a premium as it is!

That is unless you start throwing money at it to increase bank storage. (but you already knew that right)

[Sevens]

HawkofStorms, on 13 November 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

Lol.  Love the complaints about power creep when they say point blank that legendaries are still better.  So it's power creep to add new items to the game that are weaker then existing items?

Wrong, they say point blank that Legendaries will be upgraded to match the power of ascended

[ToySoldier]

Lordkrall, on 13 November 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

they are bumping Legendaries up to the same level as Ascended weapons when they become available.

Now exotic will be second class.  But Ascended will likely be followed 3 months later by another set.  Will Legendary always be bumped when a new set comes out?  What happens 5 years from now when everyone has legendary?

It's interesting that one new monster skill will cause a million player to need a whole new set of gear.  Imagine combining this with the crit set, condition set, etc...  In the long run, what does this mean to ANet revenue?

In my earlier post I suggested selling monster skill defense as utility skills instead.  It would open up the game to a lot more creative efforts without majorly upset players effort at gearing. Hope ANet thinks about this.  Utility skills mean you won't need to upgrade legendary gear.

The progressive minded players can then expand their utility skill set vis in-game activities and feel happy.

The casual players may find it much easier to buy a skill from the gem store when they need it.

Edited by ToySoldier, 13 November 2012 - 12:56 PM.

[Lordkrall]

Yes of course.
Now that they have added this we know that they will add new extremely overpowered sets every 3 months! Oh and every 4 month they will also add limited time weapons that are 10 times as strong as Legendaries but only obtainable during a weekend!

And each year they will delete all gear our character is using and forcing us to start again from level 1!

[Silent The Legend]

And when casuals will be back from one year of real life, they will find equipments which are 100% more powerful than theirs. They look up the requirements, stare astonished and uninstall the game.

Edited by Silent The Legend, 13 November 2012 - 12:59 PM.

[Matsy]

Said I would wait until the blog post, its here so....

Anet......sigh

[ToySoldier]

It is way better to keep a million players who joined GW2 based on its proclamation of no gear race, and earn $1,000,000 when a new monster skill defense is implemented, and sell the defense skill for $1 per account, than to lose a lot of these players.

Edited by ToySoldier, 13 November 2012 - 01:04 PM.

[Lordkrall]

ToySoldier, on 13 November 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

It is way better to keep a million players who joined GW2 based on its proclamation of no gear race, and earn $1,000,000 when a new monster skill defense is implemented, and sell the defense skill for $1 per account, than to lose a lot of these players.

Ah yes, because pay to win is MUCH better than the current system

[Draugadan]

Quote

We have always worked hard to create a sense of satisfying progression rather than gear grind and this new item progression initiative is no exception. By adding challenging new combat mechanics to end-game content and ways to mitigate those mechanics through gear progression for high-end players, we can add personal progression without making the game feel like an endless treadmill of gear that is just out of your reach.

So, when you have such a system in any other MMOs, it's called "gear treadmill", and it's the spawn of the devil, but when Guild Wars 2 implements it's called "item progression" and it's innovation. Hypocrisy at its finest. Well done ArenaNet!

[NuclearDonut]

Uder, on 13 November 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

For a long time = 2 weeks...

That's just speculation. Linsey never said when the other gear was gonna come out. I doubt it will be released until at least a month from now. That's plenty of time to start preparing for your next progression in gear.

[beadnbutter32]

Kinda fun watching all the fan boys and girls back pedal like mad whenever Anet goes back on yet another tenant of their manifesto.

Add to this the most awful of developer cop-outs, endless or infinite dungeons, is just the same old crap, randomized.  Do it once, and you have basically seen all it has to offer. The only thing that changes is the number of mobs, and how hard they hit.

Anarchy Online had 'such' good success with their infinite mission generator.  

If it walks like a tread-mill and it quacks like a treadmill...

Aside from the handful of obvious schills sporting legendaries in high traffic areas for maximum effect, the uptake on legiondaries gold sink has been below Anets projections, so they are tweaking that whole deal, but it still sounds way beyond what any sane gamer will consider an acceptable effort/reward ratio.

Edited by beadnbutter32, 13 November 2012 - 01:17 PM.